Okay.
Six o'clock. We'll, now, now call
to order a special meeting of the city council.
Monday, October 28th, 2024 at 6:00 PM Uh,
roll call Madam Secretary
Councilman Rob C.
Here. Councilman McGee? Here. Councilman Dwyer? Here.
Councilman Present. Councilman Nunan? Here.
Councilman Lafferty. Here.
Councilwoman Moore is present. We have a form.
Next item. Next item. Adoption of the agenda.
Acknowledged. Receipt of special meeting notice. So moved.
Support Lafferty.
Discussion question. Ms. Moore? Yes. Mr.
Lafferty? Yes. Mr. Dwyer? Yes. Mr. Boy. Gee. Yes. Mr. Nunan?
Yes. Ms. McGee? Yes. Ancy is the yes. Next item.
Next item is consideration
and adoption of a resolution approving budget amendment
for the Warren City Clerk
to purchase a DS nine 50 high speed scanner
and tabulator in the amount of $140,370.
Motion to deny with discussion
Support. Labor
discussion Ms. Moore. Thank you.
Um, just to bring everybody up to speed.
Um, a few weeks ago there was a, um, voice
of democracy or some such name to a, um,
a panel discussion on the election in the county.
And at that time, um, there were some concerns brought up
about, um,
Um, Problems in Warren
and the fact that the, um,
Uh, Absentee ballots were not gonna be
tabulated in the eight days prior to the general election.
Um, I thought that was concerning.
I added it to the council agenda last meeting
and we discussed it at that time.
Um, and we all expressed our concerns, um,
why the ballots were not gonna be tabulated.
And, um, I think everybody sort of weighed in at that time.
Um, since that time, last Thursday,
after the close of business
council office received a request for
a special meeting from, um, this city clerk, Sonia Buffet,
indicating, lemme find the exact document, um,
what she requested.
She requested a special meeting to consider
and approve the purchase
of a new DS nine 50 high speed counter and tabulator.
Um, this machine will expedite ballot counting
and results for the November 5th general election.
Immediate purchase is necessary
to ensure arrival prior to the election.
The upcoming election is intended to have high turnout
and expedient processing is essential to the public welfare.
I deem this as an emergency purchase under section
two dash 3 3 7 0.9.
In any event, a special meeting would be greatly appreciated
to consider and approve this equipment.
Um, first off, um, emergency purchases are done by the mayor
with concurrence from the controller, and Mr.
Schroer, somebody else.
I think approval has to come from the mayor
And the purchasing Agent. And
the purchasing agent, which that didn't have.
May I have recess?
Yes. Motion. Motion to have a recess.
Support. All in favor?
Aye. Aye. We're recessed.
I can't. Is it gonna happen every five minutes?
Well, you never know. This building.
We need to leave the door open, right? Mm-Hmm.
There's no tell.
Motion. Are we back in session? Wait for our camera
Head. Oh, yeah.
Apparently he's the sergeant at arms.
Hold your motion. There we go. Okay.
Motion by Mr. Boy. He support. Anyone
Support We could just
Zooming the rules. Yeah.
Back in session.
Um, um, just to pick up where I was, um, it said
that this was essential to the public welfare.
Well, the legal definition of public welfare is resources
and conditions needed for healthy and comfortable living.
Um, which I don't think the tabulate ballots fits
that definition, but neither here nor there.
But that an emergency has to come from the mayor.
Um, when I received this, um, I sent in the,
the next morning around six 30 in the morning, um, a, uh,
an email, return email to Ms.
Buffet indicating that any request for an appropriation
of funds, mid cycle, mid budgett cycle had
to come from the mayor's office.
And that, um, also, um, we would have to be,
the sole source would have to be verified
by the purchasing agent.
Um, another thing, um,
that was there was whether the ballots would be wr could be
then counted on, uh, or tabulated the day before.
I subsequently found out that
that was in incorrect information
that came from the Secretary of State's office,
that we were not eligible to count ballots that day.
So I did send an email to Ms.
B under to making her aware that we were aware that that,
um, was not possible.
So I didn't want her to think we were asking
for anything unreasonable.
Um, on Friday night, maybe eight 30, was it Friday night?
Um, uh, a request for an appropriation
and a, uh, a request for approval of an appropriation
of funds came from the mayor.
Um, and at that point, um, ms.
Um, then on Saturday, MS.
Camp, uh, sent out a notice for the meeting. Mm-Hmm.
Um, subsequent to that time, um,
I have certainly had a, uh, many discussions with the state,
the county clerks around the, um, state
and, um, actually what we have,
we have four high speed printers, as I understand
that together do about 300 ballots per minute.
So, counters, counters, tabulators,
and they could probably do, um,
be done if in a perfect world, two and a half hours,
but probably five hours at the outset.
So we probably have the equipment, um,
to be able to count them.
Um, but certainly if you were able to tabulate earlier than
that, and certainly being able to open the ballots the day
before and flatten them
and be ready to put in the tabulators would certainly be,
um, helpful for that.
I don't know how many, um, election workers we have.
I talked to another city, comparable size.
They have 450 election workers on Tuesday.
So I would think that that would be plenty of, uh, personnel
to handle the ballot counting.
Um, I, I think that what has happened is that, um,
with pressure from the state, the county, uh,
actually nationally, people have been on TV criticizing, uh,
the clerk for opting out of early tabulating, uh,
put pressure on the clerk
and her back was up against the wall
and she thought the only way out was to get $140,000, uh,
tabulator at the ex that the taxpayers have to pay for.
Um, the email said there was money in,
in the clerk's budget for this item.
There is not, um, possible, pardon me
Possible. I'm
sorry. Was there no possible funds that are,
will be available that may be available?
I'm sorry, I'm talking out of turn. Sorry,
Go ahead.
I will find the exact wording.
I think it's here.
Funding is currently available.
The funding is currently available in account number
1 0 1 1 2 1 5 9 7 400.
Upon remittance of the grant funds,
I will submit a budget amendment request to reallocate
and replenish the funds.
I don't think we have a procedure in Warren
to borrow money and then pay it back.
Um, it,
in some documentation it said a grant has been applied
for, or there is a grant.
I'd like to see a copy of that grant that was sent in.
Um, and the mayor was very, very complimentary of the clerk
for applying for this grant and going above
and beyond and getting the grant.
I'd like to see a copy of that
'cause I've not been able to find it
or find anybody that knows about a grant for this machine.
I'm sure every clerk in the state would like
to have $140,000 high, high speed, uh, ca tabulated,
but I've not, I don't know every place
to go in the world to look for grants.
I'm not a grant writer. That's not my job,
but I'd like to see a copy of the grant that was submitted.
Um, The
problem out of Warren, in the opinion of many
around the state is not the tabulating
of votes.
It is the fact that the votes are tabulated early enough in
the evening, but the sticks are not given to the county
until hours and hours later.
Um, they don't have to all be sent at once.
You can send two or three sticks at a time,
or one or however many.
Um, the county clerk has offered, uh, to send a sheriff
with an election worker to Warren
to pick up the sticks to take to the county.
They've also offered to, um, send a,
a sheriff deputy with election worker
and bring an election worker from Warren on
the trip to the county.
They've offered to add to help with election workers,
bring extra, um, machines.
Um, I was not aware that we had high speed tabulators,
and that's a pretty common thing.
I think a lot of people got things outta grants in the
last few years for that.
Um, so the big problem is not getting the sticks.
Um, the paperwork does not have to go, uh,
the sticks alone can go to the county.
Um, and that is what I think needs to be done,
is the results have to be given, uh, quicker than they ought
to be there by the 11 o'clock news
because everybody's gonna be looking here for those results.
And Michigan's is a swing state.
Um, sometimes Macomb County County has been pivotal in
national elections, and we certainly don't want
to be the people that are holding up, um,
getting the results.
Um, late today, I received an email from Ms.
Buffet saying that she had decided to rent
a machine for $40,000.
Um, by renting first she would able to
responsibly manage taxpayer resources.
I don't know what that means, but if she's already sure
of the grant, why would you have to rent a machine to see
how it's going to work if you had the grant money?
That makes no sense to me.
So first and foremost, I'd like to see the grant money
or the grant application.
Um, 'cause I'd certainly like to do research on
what the chances of us getting that are.
Um, that'd be great if we get that, that would be fabulous.
I think it's a little late in the game to be doing that.
The training and I, you know, I know that the,
the sticks have to be programmed.
Maybe they're pre-programmed by this company. I don't know.
Um, and,
but any, any event, um, if it's a rental, um,
city council has to approve any contract that's entered into
for the rental, I suppose that would have to be another, um,
meeting that we would have to meet on to approve any, uh,
rental contract that's going to be entered into.
So those are my statements for now.
Thank you, Ms. Moore. Any other discussion?
I'd like to say that I appreciate
Secretary Moore's diligence
and finding out the details of all this
and putting it together and, uh,
your hard work over the weekend
on an unnecessary apparently emergency basis.
I believe that the opportunity to get this funding
should have occurred during the budget cycle,
and it should have been clear by now exactly
how this would go and that we would be all in the clear on
the, on our elections.
Um, I hope that the point has been made
and gets through to our city clerk
that the sticks should get up to the county on time, uh,
as, as soon as, um, as soon as available.
And, um, the, the city
of Warren should not be holding up the election
for the county, for the state, or for the whole country.
Thank you so much. I
Adam. Sure.
Mr. Wiki Question for Secretary Moore.
The, the, uh, email
that she said you received from the clerk
regarding the rental of the, uh, tabulated machine.
Was there any mention in lieu of withdrawn this request?
Or, or if you could read that email to us. Yes.
Sorry, I just had it off here.
If you have another question, I'll find this while you're,
oh, here's a press release from the,
a press statement on the decision
to rent rather than purchase the
DS nine 50 high speed scanner and tabulator.
Would you like me to read that?
Yeah, go ahead. Was that from the clerk?
Yep. When was the excuse?
This was sent at 4 29 today. Yes.
The city clerk's office has decided
to rent the DS nine 50 high speed scanner
and tabulator allowing us
to thoroughly evaluate its performance
before considering a full purchase.
Though in arrange through an arrangement with the vendor,
we have the unique opportunity
to use the machine in an actual election proving
that it works as expected to meet our high standards
of accuracy and efficiency.
This $40,000 rental provides assurance
that absentee ballots will be processed quickly
and accurately with careful consideration, given
to additional staffing needs, logistical planning
and operational demands.
By renting first, we're able
to responsibly manage taxpayer resources while investing in
the tools that best support our community's needs.
The clerk's office remains committed to transparency,
integrity, and operational excellence in every election.
This rental approach ensures we're making informed decisions
that serve the public interest in both the long, long
and short term.
Okay, thank you. Well, well list listening to that.
It sounds like that she wants to rent the machine
before purchasing it to see how it works.
Mm-Hmm. You know, no different than taking a car
for a test right before you purchase it.
So why are we here for this today?
Uh, right.
Actually, the, the, um, clerk asked to cancel this meeting,
but everybody was on their way.
Ms. Camp was here and we had a lot of questions.
We've done a lot of, um, okay. Thank you.
Research and I, in fact, I think you
and I talked about the questions you asked at budget time
that maybe you wanna reiterate,
Right? Yeah,
yeah.
I, I'll like to make one statement like
I set him up bunch of time.
I, I specifically asked the city clerk, uh,
what items you needed.
You know, we talked about it, uh, the election integrity,
if you need an investigator,
whatever you need, tell us what you need.
And only thing we got was, uh, our vehicle to transport the,
this, uh, balance around and machines.
No further questions. You Thank you. Yeah. Um, Ms. Vahe,
My biggest concern is the reputation as the rest of you,
the reputation of the city.
I heard madam, um, our secretary state that
with the machines that we using, please correct me,
am I wrong that we can tabulate 300
with the machines that we have?
Is that correct?
Yes. Per minute. For 11 inch ballots, we are dealing
with 17 inch ballots this time.
So if that slows it down a little bit,
I'm not entirely sure it could.
That's everything being perfect.
No paper jams if that happens, that kind.
And with the tabulator, it would do 280
for the tabulator per minute, correct?
Correct. So we would have to use three machines, three tab,
four tabulators in order to do 300.
But this one tabulator would do 280, um, per minute
and it would make it a little bit faster.
So my concern is I don't want to be the city that, that
hold up the entire election and the reputation of the city.
Now I'm in agreement with the 40 thou, the,
the 40,000 for rental.
But my concerns is the contract itself.
Um, how long will it take for training, how many people
to train and will it be ready on election day?
Those are all my concerns.
Um, and I, I don't know if you have someone here
who can answer those questions
because my thing is I, like I said,
we all don't wanna hold up, let the city be the city
to held, hold up the entire election.
And so if she can answer those questions, um,
it would be muchly appreciated.
Ms B isn't here. Ms.
De Doherty, if you can introduce yourselves.
Hi, um, I'm Lisa Delo.
I'm the duff clerk and I'm here to answer any questions
regarding the operation of the machines.
Um, I have not used the nine 50, but from what I've seen
and researched on my own,
it operates fairly similar to the four 50.
So I should be able to touch on it pretty quickly
and I can show the workers how to use it as well.
It operates pretty similar from my
understanding as the four 50.
And how many people would it take
to get trained for that? I
Have approximately 50 people
that are working on the accounting board.
I'm going to train anywhere from two
to four per per machine.
And then I also have workers that have used the machines
for several years now.
So my understanding is that it operates very similar
to the four 50, which is what we have right now.
And what is the maintenance? Um, can you
Clarify Just in case the machine break down or
We can always run the balance
through on another machine if that were to happen.
And will we be able to use the machine
for additional elections?
Yes,
it seems as if,
Can you clarify if, if it's a
handbook because it's a rental?
Yeah, if it's a rental. Okay.
So you would have to continue to rent it?
No, It's just a rental one time
For this selection. Yes.
What are the numbers so far?
It seems as though with the, with the photos that I've seen,
it seems as though that election, the number of people
that are voting has drastically increased.
Um, as far as absentee, Absentee and early voting,
Um, we have approximately 27 thousands we sent
out, um, returned.
I have not checked today's,
but I would say about 16,000 return.
And then we have the early voting
that's taking place as well.
And we've had a large turnoff for that.
Larger than usual.
Well this is the first presidential we've had early
voting, so I don't really have anything to compare it to.
But the percentage as far
as approximate percentage has this, does it seem like even
with, I know this the first time early voting,
didn't we do early voting prior? We had
In February and we had it in August.
This is the first presidential to have early voting.
Oh, presidential. 'cause it seems like quite
a bit of people are coming out.
We've had quite a few people come in.
We're at a little over 3,400 in three days.
And so the tabulating that normally may take up to two
or three o'clock in the morning, it may take even longer
with the number of people with the numbers to increase. I
Don't think so. Um, we have
the four machines as of right now,
and I think we can get it done just as we have in the past.
I, okay. Any other discussion?
Madam President? Mr. Lafferty? Thank you. Good evening.
Uh, I have my, I prepared just like, uh,
Madam Secretary Moore did
and others for this special meeting.
And I had, uh,
19 different questions prepared for this evening.
But since we're, we're not talking about
the item on the agenda that is being rescinded, uh,
based on the press release by the city clerk, uh,
we're talking now about a $40,000 rental
that's not on this agenda.
So that's not something we can approve tonight.
Is the clerk going to be asking
for another emergency meeting of council?
Another special meeting of council a, a revised agreement
and appropriation request from the administration
to be sent to the council office.
Uh, when is that going to happen?
And my, my next question, I guess,
and I, with all due respect to you, Ms.
Dior, where is the city clerk?
I'm here. I am, I'm not doubting
that you're here present in front of us.
I'm asking where is our elected city clerk
that put Ms. Moore
and this council on notice caused a great deal of churn,
a great deal of work, a great deal of preparation,
and doesn't have the respect to appear
before this council to answer questions herself.
I want to know where the elected city clerk is And the fact
that we're meeting this evening exactly one week prior
to election day demonstrates a complete failure
in long-term planning
and executive decision making by the city clerk.
Members of this council worked unnecessarily
throughout the weekend to assist.
We offered assistance
and she's not here to answer questions.
That's unacceptable by any stretch.
Uh, a couple of housekeeping items through the chair
to Mr. Fox.
You have a line item now.
We zeroed out in the budget.
We zeroed out the office equipment.
In fact, it was already zeroed when it came to us in, in,
uh, budget time for office equipment.
So that line item was zero.
Uh, this general contingency, I was unable to find that, uh,
account in the encumbrance report.
Okay. So the general fund
contingency is in the general fund.
That's the money at the end of the budget year
that it goes into the whole general fund?
Mm-Hmm. Not in the clerk's.
Right. I, I kind of figured based on the numbering
that it wasn't relegated just to that particular department,
but it just didn't appear in the encumbrance report
from last, uh, from our last meeting.
It wouldn't because it's, it's just a separate fund.
It's a contingent fund.
And if a department needs additional funding,
we take it from the contingency
Department. Understood.
Alright. Okay.
So with the, is there an agreement,
have, have you seen an agreement come
through a rental agreement?
Not yet. Alright. Uh, through the chair to Ms.
Dior, is there a rental agreement that has been procured
and submitted to the administration?
I can find out. I'm not sure. I believe there has been,
But it just recently
I'm, so this you, you were answering questions
for Not that, not yet. I'm sorry.
I just double check. Okay.
So there is no agreement you're answering questions
for Ms. McGee and you said that this agreement would be
for one time use, it would be delivered for election day?
Yes. And so
we're one week away.
When would this, if we had another meeting,
you're at least 18 hours away
from another meeting being called.
Uh, it would maybe with any luck get
to City hall by Monday.
Yes. Friday. Maybe.
That's, that's a big, maybe I'm Many of the questions
that I had prepared for tonight were
to understand the introduction of a new piece of a new piece
of equipment, the programming of it,
and how it might interfere
with an already prepared election.
All of the different memory cards that you're using,
have those been tested with the county clerk coming from
that particular tabulator with the introduction of a new
tabulator, uh, somehow adversely affect, unknowingly,
adversely affect everything that has been prepared
for this major election.
And we can't answer that.
The clerk cannot answer that question
because it hasn't been tested.
Now, from, from my standpoint,
technologically that is a risk.
The right people aren't at the table.
The the technical expertise is completely absent
and we don't have the answers.
That makes us a very high risk decision.
A risk that we cannot afford to take. Absolutely not.
And not to mention the, you know, the, the other
work that still has yet to be done.
You're asking, you know, if, if your boss is asking Ms.
Dee to put the administration through this additional rigor
on a rush timeline,
which only increases risk even further
than we're at right now. I if I
May answer help some of that
because I do know from what she was giving us.
'cause that was the first questions we had asked
before setting this up.
The machines are tested already by the state.
Um, and then you guys test them. We test them locally.
So they're already cer or certified by the state. I'm sorry,
I I understand the cert I researched all weekend.
I understand the certification process.
I researched the credentials of the National Institute
of Standards and Technology
and the cybersecurity, uh, testing
and all of the other state of Michigan testing that,
that happened subsequent to that, I'm well aware
of the certifications and all,
but it still doesn't answer the, the, the question.
How does the introduction of a new piece of equipment,
a new tabulator introduced into the election wear software,
how does that potentially affect everything else
that's already been done?
Will it possibly affect the counting of, of ballots
that were not,
that equipment was not there when those memory cards were
prepared for all of the other precincts
and all of the other counting boards?
That's, that's a question that, that you're not going
to be an able to answer tonight.
Um, I I have no other questions,
but I am at, at this point,
the, I could not support
this effort that's in front of us.
And I I would not be in favor of
even bringing in an additional tabulator at this
late stage of the game.
We had this meeting in this room back in April asking the
clerk for everything she needed
and if her budget was sufficient.
And the answer was yes, we're well prepared.
We're meeting one week to, from the day
of the election in an emergency. Not good. Thank you.
Um, Ms. Little, we see you had something.
From my understanding, the Tabulator didn't become available
for purchase until
after our budgets, which is why she was researching all
of this originally for next year's budget.
Um, so we, she heard your concerns at the meeting
and moved up her timeline.
I know that doesn't answer all of your questions,
but hopefully that gives you some
understanding where she was coming from.
Thank you, Mr. Newan.
Madam President. Um, I, I'm sorry,
I should know your name, but I don't,
My name is Lisa Delore.
Delore Delore. Lisa Lisa is the first name.
Lisa. Lisa, yes. If I may call you Lisa.
Um, so I heard Secretary Moore Mm-Hmm.
Saying that in elections past that
the sticks were ready to be sent up to the county, um,
much earlier in the evening than they ended up
getting sent to the county.
Four. Can you clarify that?
Yes. Um, so the votes get tabulated Yes.
Much pretty early in the evening.
It only seems to take five hours.
Would that be an accurate statement? No.
Okay. Please tell me more.
Well, I mean, it depends on the volume of ballots.
It, it doesn't just take five hours.
We start at 8:00 AM and we process all day. Right.
Um, we have ballots that are returned up until 8:00 PM
We have, uh, six specs as we have
to check throughout the city.
Um, we have to get those scanned in.
We have to get them sorted
so it doesn't just take back numbers.
Okay. So, um, other cities managed
to get this done in a timely basis.
And I believe that it's true that for the last
10 elections, something a lot of elections, um,
our numbers don't get to the county
or it doesn't get, um, it doesn't get posted by the county
until like one 30 or two o'clock in the morning.
I know I've weighed it up and, and
and given up on the Warren count many times and it's gone.
Okay, I'm going to bed.
You know, I've been through this before.
Other cities get it done on time.
Why can't we? That's a real question.
And it sounds like we can, I I believe
Cook Moore has stated exactly what we need to do.
I would appreciate it
if the clerk's department would do that.
And if that really is the problem,
which you don't seem to be willing to admit.
And I see, you know, you're filling in
for someone who's not here, who's an elected official, who,
who asked us to be here and should have been here.
What's up? Why are you even here?
Um, and why would we need to rent it?
Why if, if we're not buying it, rent it, buy it.
If we don't need it, why are we doing it?
We already have How many,
how many voting tabulation machines do we have?
We have four. We have four.
And some of them could be, uh,
set up in different parts of the city, perhaps.
No. Is that true?
We have no, we do it all at city hall.
But they could be done in all other parts of the city? No.
No. Okay. So I I I thought I had heard something about that
and then I, I thought that we were going to be able to, uh,
the clerk was gonna be able to start counting the day
before, even though she hadn't asked.
Um, was it the state
or the county elections, um, to uh,
get the eight day pre early count going.
She would've had to have registered for that, correct? Yes.
Was it possible at some point that she could have still,
even though she hadn't done that?
Uh, started the early counting the day before the election.
The deadline was October 8th.
October 8th. So she had up to October 8th to ask
for the day before the election.
And she didn't do it. This,
this doesn't look like very good management.
I'm sorry. So I don't mean to be mean,
but I don't see why we should have to reconvene
to go for a rental when it seems like
the real deal is get the votes, tabulated,
get the sticks up on time.
Thank you very much. Aye Mr.
Boyed. And then I had a few questions.
Uh, Madam Chair, a question for Mr. Fox City Patrol
in response to the administration, um, about the budget
and putting a item in your request.
Um, my first year doing the budget, you help me a lot,
but don't we still put request in,
even though our item may not be available
to appropriate the money, if it did,
and let's say it didn't come available, we
possibly buy another, you know, present
another sheet up that we wanna find instead.
And let's say that machine didn't come up herself
and you put 140,000 in there,
that would just fall into the contingency fund as end
of a year to be reappropriated later.
Is that correct? Correct. So they could have put it in
there, it requested the money set aside in your budget
with the anticipation of buying that machine?
Well, I don't think they knew, unfortunately.
I don't think they knew about the machine based on heard.
So, but if at any point in time, even
during the year requested may to add, so
then my office will prepare the mayor if she's on board
with the responsible officials.
Thank you.
Um, I had a few questions. You object. Thank you.
What, um, the $40,000, if the rental is approved, what is,
does that go towards the purchase of 140?
Like if we wanna purchase the machine?
I do believe that is an option that we have. Yes.
So it would be applied towards the total purchase?
Yes. If we were to purchase a percentage.
Okay. I don't know if all 40,000 orders of result
Yeah, that would be helpful, but most of it,
Yes. Uh,
what would Ms um, dear Lorde,
what would the cost per day be in a presidential election
such as this one if we were counting ballots early?
So like, let's say we decided
to start counting ballots today, roughly, I don't know
how many workers you have and what they make.
Um, we would, we would've to be election workers, um,
if we pre-processed, I'm just asking Yeah.
Maybe 25, 30 workers a day.
Um, about 200, 200 per worker.
$200 per worker. And Just approximately,
No, I appreciate the approximation.
So 25 with our existing equipment,
if we did that, we would,
we use our existing equipment, our four tabulators?
Yes. So it would be about $6,000 a day
based on those estimates.
I realize those could change based on Yes, correct
what you're saying, but let's just say six to 8,000 just
to even give you some room.
Six to $8,000 a day in labor with the existing machinery
that we have For us to be able to
get ahead of what is counting the ballots
and produce our results sooner.
So even if we did it three days in advance,
and I'll even say 10 grand, it would be $30,000 in labor
and that's would being very generous
for the amount of people that would be there.
$30,000 in labor without having
to purchase additional equipment.
So why, I guess, and you may not be able to answer this,
but it would be helpful to understand the logic, whether
that was an operational decision, a fiduciary decision,
why we didn't just opt to pay more people
or recruit more people, pay the people we already have
that wanna come in additional days
to do counting of ballots earlier.
Because it certainly would be the more fiduciary thing to do
and we wouldn't be in this room trying to make this decision
on the, you know, the 11th hour
without even the right information.
Right. Does do you have,
do you know if the response to that?
I'm not sure. Okay.
Okay. And then how many workers will we have on Tuesday?
Approximately 400. Okay.
Okay. Um, rent to own.
So I had a note, um, Mr. Fox,
where is the additional 40 K coming from?
So it looks like maybe that was what you read earlier.
Mm-Hmm. Was that the 40 K? Okay. Thank you.
Um,
okay, that's all I have. Uh, Ms. Moore. Sure.
Mm-Hmm. Just to clarify, Ms. McGee, that, um,
when I gave the those numbers, it was based on
30,000 ballots a day.
That would take two and a half hours in a perfect world.
Okay? But it takes, you know, people have lunches
and things like that.
So adding,
so they can still do those four machines can do 18,000
ballots an hour and we're gonna have 30, 30,000.
That's what they're predicting.
The county told me we should expect about
30,000 avs.
Okay. So that in a perfect world, if you could do 18,
if they, you had all four machines running and,
and if we had been able to open them the day
before, if we had opted in, then they're out
of the envelopes, they're flattened
and they can go right into the tabulators.
Uh, I know that Sterling Heights has 450 um,
workers on election day,
but I, if you'll remember, I asked Ms.
Buff how many election workers
she had and she wouldn't tell me.
She said the count, the state reimburses.
So we shouldn't be concerned with
how much election workers are paid.
So, um, I don't know if that's true.
I didn't call anybody and check, but I asked
and I sent a follow up email
'cause I wanted to know how many election workers we had,
and I was not, I was given the same response
that I shouldn't be concerned basically with that,
that this, the, the city is reimbursed by the state.
So thank you.
If, if that's true that we don't pay
for the election workers, that certainly is a, a difference.
But I, but I, I think that we should have a commitment that,
um, I understand the lacks of election, the avs
and all the ballots were done,
tabulations were done by nine o'clock.
The sticks got to the county at one 30 in the morning.
So they were done here and they were also posted.
I, I didn't even know we ever,
one time they were posted on the city's website, well,
in advance of anything getting to the county.
And the county has to have those sticks.
They just can't have somebody's word for it.
So that was very inappropriate.
Um, um, the other clerks
and the county think it was done that way,
that they should be, those sticks should
be going to the county first.
Um, so I would like a commitment from the clerk.
Of course she's not here. I'm absolutely not surprised.
I predicted this days ago that she would not show.
We've been trying to get her to come in front of council
for a very long time to answer a lot of questions we have.
Um, but I would like to have a commitment
that if one precinct is done, that stick gets to the county,
um, I don't care how they do it.
I'll, I'll pay for a Brinks truck, just get 'em there.
But the county will send a sheriff and a car
and the city will do that,
but they don't have to be all at one time.
And other cities send them in periodically so
that you're not waiting for the whole city Warren,
because that's a big city.
If we, you know, have four
or five precincts, that's a big deal.
So I think we should at least try to do the best we can.
I don't know what's gonna happen.
We're gonna have to approve any contract that come.
That's, if contract comes, um,
we'll have to have a council meeting.
I don't know how and when I can convene that, we have
to have, uh, for a special meeting, we have
to have five members.
Um, so, uh,
and we have to have five votes
for an appropriation of funds.
I don't know when that can be accomplished.
Um, I know we have, uh, um,
council people going on vacation,
so I it's probably not gonna be possible after today.
Um, so I don't know.
We'll have to see. Mr.
N Honor President. Mm-Hmm. Thank you so much.
So as I'm understanding it, um, according
to the calculations that came forward from President Ganzi,
it would be about 6,000 per day for election workers.
Low end, Low end,
and to get the votes tabulated additional election workers.
I guess in addition ones we have, if they weren't able to
be switched over to also tabulating,
but that would all get paid for, not
by the city, but by the state.
And so we wouldn't even have to worry about it.
So I guess I would suggest that the, uh,
elections office go ahead and,
and, uh, arrange to have that happen.
We can't do it. We can't. It's too late.
You have to put a notice to
The state. Oh, too late
They can hire more people. Oh
No. To hire more people. I mean,
if the election workers are
paid for by the state, not by the city, then
that would be a zero cost item for us.
And another reason for why we shouldn't be voting, uh,
voting in favor of renting or,
or, uh, buying an extra tabulator.
I yield. Thank
You Madam President.
Mr. Lafferty. I was, I did a quick comparison
of the encumbrance reports from the period ending
December 31st, 2020 when we last had another, you know,
four year election cycle.
And at the time that council
appropriated $405,000 just for election wages.
And we used, at that period
of time we had used 54% of that money.
Now, fast forward to this budget year, we
appropriated 573,000
because we saw the need for higher rates
and, you know, potentially more workers needed
for a very large election.
And as of right now, uh, the election wages,
only 16% of that budget has been used.
And, you know, there's, there's a very healthy sum.
Your office has plenty of cash to fund additional workers.
So I think the, the best option here is since
the the technical process is far too risky,
I would suggest adopting an approach
that does not require any procedural changes,
any administrative approvals.
And you go and you look for more workers
to help expedite this process
and reach out to Sterling Heights, reach out
to the other municipalities that are able to report
their totals much, much earlier
than Warren can follow that process.
And they obviously have a, a winning strategy.
They have a formula that works
and the county clerk is begging you
to deliver those memory cards, get the cards in, follow the,
the procedures that the other municipalities follow
and we should be in, in good shape.
I don't want to hear any excuses on election night saying,
you know, pointing the finger at another branch
of government that wasn't willing to help.
We're here. Your boss is not. Thank you.
Are the other cities using a new
Tab? I'm
Sorry, go ahead. You
can have, are the other cities using a new tabulator?
I don't know. Is Sterling Heights using a new
tabulate one that you want?
Because I hear that other cities are using it. The Sterling,
Not in The county, not in Macomb County
That I know of.
I thought I heard yesterday. They're okay. Some are.
Yep. They, everybody has I think high
speed scanners, right?
This is just one on steroids.
Um, I think, um, most everybody got the high speed scanners.
Um, I keep calling 'em scanners, tabulators tied
to grant money and I had the name of the grant somewhere,
but I think everybody was you, you got those under Grant.
I think from the state.
Everybody got 'em that need 'em of a certain size.
Some cities have so few voters they don't need them. The
Tabulators. But this
one in particular, the five 50 whatever it's
Called, 9 59 50.
That one in particular, no one in McComb was using it.
I'll, you know, as of now, I dunno
because I I thought they said thrown by sale.
They do, they do not. I can tell you they do not.
Okay. Madam person, I move. Recall the question.
We have a thank You motion to deny.
Uh, should we, should we table vote? Since it's was re
That's your option if you don't not table it,
but I mean it's just tabling this item to,
If it's been with, may I ask Mm-Hmm.
If it's been withdrawn, the request has been withdrawn,
what should our action be? I mean, not a vote, but
What I mean, if it's withdrawn, then you know,
you technically don't have, you can deny it for, you know,
your own sake if you wanna deny it or no action is required.
Um, 'cause it's been withdrawn,
I dunno about tabling it. Pardon?
Receive a file. Okay.
That might be the, I'll change my,
I'll change my motion to receive and file
Mr. Lty. I
will support that motion. Yeah. Thank you.
Uh, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
Okay. Motion carries. Next item. Next
Item, audience participation.
Uh, Maggie,
I wanna thank you all for coming on the short notice
to attend this meeting to discuss this.
I did a little research myself texted with a company
and on the basis that we were going to ask
to buy this hundred 40,000 DS
50, well, that's apparently not gonna happen.
I had hoped coming here, we would be able to have,
get some answers to people who have been watching to see
what we're going to do, how we're going to do it.
And we would be able to calm some of the fears we all have.
Instead, the things I've heard here tonight,
just make me more scared.
It's going to make other people more scared.
Their questions were not answered.
Now we have more questions.
And although I think the direction that we're going in to
try to staff up more workers, if
that's at all possible at this lay point,
is probably the best thing to do.
It's going to save us money for,
from buying this tabulator or renting it.
But the fact that we're still determining,
talking about do we rent, do we buy our more workers?
That that just doesn't reassure me that we're going
to be able to be ready
and to fulfill our obligation to the county, the state,
and the country to have our results,
our election results tabulated in a sufficient amount
of time to report back to the people of our, our state,
the people of the country, what Warren decided to do.
I wanna thank you all again for your efforts tonight,
and I really do appreciate the time
You've taken and the work that you've done.
Thank you. Next is Lori Harris.
I have a couple questions.
One question was for Mr. Fox, if the money's going
that isn't spent in a budget year going
to a contingency fund,
if we didn't hire enough police officers, is
that in a contingency fund that can get spent any place
that, uh, really made me wonder?
Um, I've seen, um, Ms. Lisa and Ms.
Christina taking a lot of notes.
I don't know what benefit it will be.
And I feel bad that Lisa's taking the fall
for Sonia bfa who should be here.
Um, I think that, um, Ms.
bfa, uh, is just scrambling.
You know, it doesn't make any sense
when it doesn't make sense.
There's something wrong. It doesn't make sense
to do this right now.
It would've made sense five months ago, uh, or
after the, um, uh, August election even.
But to do it now, it, it doesn't make any sense.
It's a last ditch effort to show that she's trying
to do something and it's doing it wrong.
And I'm not sure why you guys are taking notes.
It's all on video. So, um, thank you for, I apologize
on behalf of the citizens that you have
to come and do all of this.
And I agree with Ms. Ton that, um,
it's gonna make people more curious about
how things are being done when this is handled
this way by the clerk.
Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Little be seen.
Good Evening. Thank you for all being here.
Um, I just wanted to say, as a resident, I'm actually,
I feel as if you guys have been very quite
hypocritical tonight.
You asked for some, um, actions from our clerk,
and then she showed up and she gave you an option.
And yes, I understand she changed her mind at the last
minute because she's looking to rent it
because she was under the impression that you were going
to vote it down in the first place.
Um, so I just think it's, you know, shame on all
of you on not just you, all of you for what you've done.
You know, when you really think that you know, you,
you voiced your concerns, then she listened
and she tried to come to the table, tried to take
what you said to heart and to fix this,
and then this is the way you guys have treated her.
Thank you.
Wow. Thank you. Next item, motion to adjourn support.
All in favor, A. Any opposed motion carries.
M.