Good evening.
I'd like to call the order a regular meeting
of the zoning Board of appeals on Wednesday, March 12th.
Please rise for the Pledge
of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance, pledge
Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands.
One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice.
All
Roll call Mr.
Svi. Here. Um, Mr. Perry. Present.
Mr. Lindsay? Here. Mr. Cliff? Here. Mr. Watts? Here.
Mr. Green Here. Uh, Mr. Higgins is absent.
Uh, Mr. Assessor present. Mr.
Jersey's present. Chairman Siah
Present.
This brings us to the adoption of the agenda,
Mr. Chair. I'd like to make
a motion to change item 19
and make it item seven A on the agenda
and keep everything else
as written. Support
A Motion by Secretary Jersey.
Support by Mr. Neitz to move item. I'm sorry.
It was 1919. 19 to
Seven A seven A.
All in favor? Aye. Aye. Item 19 has been moved to seven A.
This brings us to the approval
of the regular meeting minutes of January 8th.
They were sent out earlier today.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion
to approve the minutes of January 8th.
I had a chance to read 'em today.
Support. Have a motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by Mr. Perry
to approve the regular meeting minutes of January 8th.
All in favor? A.
Aye. The January 8th minutes have been approved.
This brings us to the approval of the February 12th minutes.
I, I don't believe those have been sent out yet.
Um, Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion to table, um,
the regular meeting minutes of February 12th, 2020 25
to the April 8th meeting. Support
A Motion by Secretary Jersey, support by Mr.
Cliff to table the approval
of the February 12th minutes until April 8th. All in favor?
Aye. Aye. The approval
of the February 12th minutes have been
postponed to April 8th.
This brings us to item six.
Item six, applicant, MMC Real Estate Investments.
LLC, representative Karen Birdie, common description,
2 8 6 6 1 Band D**e Variances Requested permission,
two one Construct a eight foot
precast concrete wall along the West property line
to operate two shifts.
Good evening, Ms. Birdie. Good evening.
Before we begin tonight, I just wanted to
state on the record, uh,
we have a couple items tonight here where Ms.
Birdie is the representative for the petitioner.
And I would just like to disclose upfront, uh, that Ms.
Birdie rents office space in the same building that I do.
Uh, however, Ms. Birdie operates her own solo independent
law practice completely separate from our firm.
And further, I'd like the record to state that Ms.
Birdie and I obviously have no, have had no previous, uh,
conversations about these items tonight.
And obviously I'm gonna be completely objective
and impartial tonight.
So with that being said, Ms. Birdie,
if you could please state your address
and tell us about your request.
Yes,
2 8 2 5 Mound Road, Warren.
Okay. Yes. Lemme try that again.
It's Karen Birdie, 2 8 2 2 5 Mound Road, Warren, Michigan.
That's my office. My home address
is also in Warren, Michigan.
I'm here on behalf of MMC.
Um, here with me tonight is Ryan Denin. Give him a wave.
Um, he's the owner of MMC.
MMC is a manufacturing company
that employs about 60 workers.
Their main product that they make is a shield
for the lithium battery that is in all of GM's,
um, electric vehicles.
They are the sole provider of that shield, uh, for gm.
The building that they own is located on 12 Mile
on the west side of the street.
Um, I mean, located on Van D**e, just south
of 12 Mile on the west side of the street.
I think you all have seen that building there. Um, right.
Pretty much on the, on the street, if you will.
It was built in the 1950s prior
to us having zoning ordinances.
Um, and, um, uh, as such, you can see
that it was, uh, built in an area
that maybe normally we wouldn't put in industrial building.
On the same token, houses are built right next to the, um,
manufacturing, uh, facility.
And you wouldn't expect those homes to be there.
But again, this was all built
before we had our zoning ordinances.
It's through no fault of my client having
that business located there,
or the residences that these two pieces of property abut.
But it is ours to solve the issue that we have before us
and find a way to move forward where both the business
and the homeowners can enjoy their property.
So, um, my client has, um,
the manufacturing facility.
And recently there's been two homeowners that have indicated
that there's a noise issue.
The city of Warren has gone out several times
with their decibel reading machine,
and we are not in violation of the City
of Warren Noise Ordinance.
However, this obviously is an issue that needs
to be addressed.
This is Van D**e.
This is the building. This is a
chainlink fence separating this building
from the residences.
And these are obviously the residences back here.
When the city came out, they indicated to us
that we could not run two shifts.
They indicated, and they pointed to the zoning ordinance
that says that when you have a manufacturing
or factory facility next to residential,
you can only run one shift.
However, I believe,
and I'm gathering the information that we'll be able
to show, two shifts have been run
before the zoning ordinances were even in effect,
that we are grandfathered in.
But that doesn't solve the problem between the neighbors.
We have to be more proactive
and try to find a solution in trying
to come up with a solution.
My client did quite a bit of measures inside his business
to quiet his business.
He took some measures regarding the work machines.
He did some insulation.
He's done some things to try to quiet down.
Um, the, the business.
In talking with, um, people in the building department,
we were also talking about the idea of,
um, a wall.
Part of the problem with a lot of the walls
that are built in the city right now is they're the concrete
block that are basically hollowed out in the middle.
And we didn't feel that that would be enough to dampen,
um, the sound between our facility and the neighbors.
We did some research
and got some advice from people in the city,
and we found a company called Rete.
They also happened to be a Warren company themselves.
This company makes solid concrete walls,
no hollow in it.
If you look on page two, It talks about
if we put in a solid concrete wall with them, that it would,
um, give us a trans, a sound transmission coefficient of 41.
Now I looked that up.
The sound transmission coefficient basically talks about,
um, the decibels of sound that are transferred.
And in my research
and my discussions with D Creek, we can expect
the decibels from our business
to go down 41 decibels.
That will make us so far below what the city
of Warren Ordinance has.
We also had discussions with Rete in which they indicated
that eight foot would help us even more than six foot.
Um, so we'd like to put up along that property line,
an eight foot rete complete
cement wall.
We do think that this will resolve, uh,
any issues with regard to, um, sound
that the neighbors are experiencing.
In the meanwhile, with regard to the, um,
second shift, if my client is
unable to run a second shift,
he will have difficulty meeting his contract with gm.
He will then have to turn to running
shifts on the weekends, Sundays included to try
to meet his obligation with gm.
Being the sole provider of that part for GM
is critical to him.
So I said to myself, if I was sitting on the board
and I was being asked about this wall
and I was being asked about running two shifts,
how would I make sure that if I granted these variances,
that the wall would get put up?
So I like to put forward to the board
that we are agreeing to a condition, um, that would say
that if the wall isn't up by the end of October of 2025.
So a lot of times when you guys give permission,
the building department gives us two years.
I don't wanna wait two years.
I don't want the people to wait two years.
I'm trying to solve the problem.
I'd like to say that if you see your way to granting both
of these requests, that if we don't have that wall up
by October, the end of October, October 31st, 2025,
that we not be allowed to run two shifts
in talking to the neighbors.
The neighbors want to have us put this wall up
and then see how it goes.
That's very difficult for us
because the cost of putting up that wall is quite expensive.
And if it's not tied to us being able
to do our business in this facility, it's not something
that, um, is fiscally responsible, quite frankly,
um, to put up the wall
and just see if the neighbors are okay with it.
So I'm asking that we put up the eight foot
full concrete wall.
We get it done for sure by October 25th.
I mean October 31st.
And the, and the reason that I gave that date, I mean,
I'd like to have it up sooner.
I just don't know what Dre's timeline is.
I don't know what their schedule is.
And so I wanted to give us through the building season.
I think the frost thing comes off in April.
Um, so I think we'll be able to schedule now
and see if we can't be, um,
done a lot sooner than the end of October.
But that to me was like our fallback, um, date, if you will,
if we're unable to run the two shifts.
Um, we currently have 60 employees.
We're probably looking at layoffs of, of half of them
and extended shifts on, on the weekends.
And I'd really rather not, um, uh, try to do that
to, um, people, if you will.
I'd really like to keep, um, both shifts going,
everybody employed, put up this wall and solve the issue.
Thank you.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
If good evening,
if you could please start with your name and address.
Hi, it's Rose Cannon. My num my address is 7 4 6 3.
Gerald. I'm actually four houses
from the factory.
I've lived in my home since 1990 and Center Line tool
and I was there and I work days
and I don't pay a whole lot of attention to what goes on at
that factory, but was never bothered by any noise whatsoever
until new, um, property owner moved his factory in.
Um, I added a lot of things
to my home since I've been there
and, um, really enjoy my backyard
or have enjoyed my backyard till the last year.
Um, I currently cannot sit on my back porch
whenever the factory is open.
So I'd like to say that if the wall goes up
and I can't hear them
and it, it's, it's intolerable, um,
to be in my backyard when they're working and the,
and the garage door is open,
the garage door is closed, it's a little better.
Their, their door is, it's a little better,
but I can still hear them.
But when their door is open, I can't sit in my backyard.
Um, so I'm not quite sure,
and I know that she's explained it, why they need
to have both things answered at the same time.
I would, I don't care if they stay open 24 7
if I can't hear them, but I don't want to,
and I guess agree isn't the proper word,
but I wouldn't condone two shifts.
And Saturdays
and Sundays, if I can't enjoy my backyard,
if they put the wall up and I can't hear them
and I can sit in my backyard in some piece,
even if it's just evenings
and weekends, then I would say,
go ahead and do what you need to do.
As long as I don't have to hear it.
Um, if I tried to move,
I can't imagine trying to sell my house.
I'm told by real estate agents
that you can't not disclose that there's noise.
And so if I tried to sell my house, I imagine
that would be an issue
and I hope you would consider that as well.
Um, again, I've been a resident
of Warren almost all my life.
Lived in this house since 1990.
Did a lot of work so I could retire here.
I'm close to retiring and I feel like
I can't enjoy my house.
So that's all I have to say. Thank you.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Good evening.
Good evening. I'm Hassan Mus Manny.
I live at 7 4 8 1 Gerald Avenue.
Um, I'm two houses down from the factory.
I've been complaining probably maybe
14 months now since I started complaining about the noise.
First I reached out to the factory. I saw if we could work.
I told them, Hey, whenever your door's
open, I can hear it in my house.
I can hear it in my basement.
It sounds like there's a rattling in my basement.
It's miserable. When I bought my house, uh, me
and my fiance weren't together.
I wanted to put an addition on the house.
Now I can't wait to get out.
She hates the house because it wakes
us up at six in the morning.
We can hear it at 11 at night.
They say they were grandfathered in,
but there was no paperwork, which I mean, I mean,
if there's no paperwork, you're not grandfathered in.
He's been fighting with the city about it.
'cause they said you can't produce any paperwork.
So I've been complaining about the time.
'cause it wakes me up in the morning.
I can't sleep at night. I'm also
worried about selling my house.
And I understand that it costs a lot of money,
but we don't want to agree to something
where then we don't have any leverage to complain anymore.
Because if we can't complain about the time anymore,
then it's over for us and we have to hear it in our house.
I have to hear it in my basement.
They say it's just two neighbors.
There's a lady that lives right next door to the factory.
Her room is butt up on the factory.
She said it keeps her up at
night, wakes her up in the morning.
But she's a renter. She feels like she can't complain.
I urged her to come out.
Her and her daughters didn't want to come out.
It is what it is. But I just think
that the wall is totally separate.
From the time I understand that,
they say it's gonna cost a lot of money.
I recommended that they do a little more insulation
and they keep the garage door closed.
He says, well, I can't keep the garage door closed
because the air conditioning will cost me a quarter million.
Then they tell me, well, the wall's gonna cost close
to a quarter million, so it's comparable.
All we've ever asked is for the door to be closed
and to do some insulation on the inside.
They told me insulation on the
inside doesn't exist for factories.
A quick Google search insulation
for factories does exist on the inside.
You put it up in the ceiling, it absorbs the sound.
He hasn't been willing to try.
When the city went over, he wasn't willing
to work with the city first.
He seemed like he was gonna work with them.
Then he is like, well, I got a business to run here.
You can just keep giving me
tickets and I'm not gonna listen.
So he is already not complying with the city.
We definitely don't want there to be the sound
and we think that the wall will help.
But I mean, we will just go back
to square one in my opinion,
and we can start complaining again.
Don't approve the wall, don't approve the time
because we don't wanna move on the time.
It's just, it's too big of a deal for us
where the wall goes up and we can just still hear it.
And then we have zero leverage to complain after that.
So I just, I wanted to speak my piece.
My fiance's here as well,
and I wish we could have brought more neighbors out,
but some people just don't like
to come and complain, I guess.
Uh, thank you guys so much for listening.
And I also sent you guys an email
of my exchange with the owner.
Um, we've been talking about it.
I've always tried to work with 'em
and I just don't like the whole, well,
if you're not gonna let us, you know, work on the time
whenever we want, then we're not gonna build the wall.
He's border, basically threatening
to not build the wall if we don't approve the time.
And honestly, it is what it is.
Don't approve the wall then
because we would rather still complain about the time
because that's all we have.
I mean, hearing it in my basement, I got a decibel reader.
I think 80 decibels is what the limit is.
It's right under sometimes 76, sometimes 79, sometimes 81.
So it's right there. I mean,
you get a decibel reader when he's got
however many machines going.
It will be over the decibels every once in a while.
So I'm just concerned about still hearing it
in my house and in my basement.
And I'm also concerned for when
and if I try to sell my house
that the only day I can show it is on Sunday right now.
Because other than that, there's just this loud factory
that you can hear in the house.
So thank you guys again. Have a great night.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone else in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. Uh, but
before I close to the public portion, I'd like, uh,
secretary Jersey to read.
Um, there's a impact state impact statement
from planning.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, from the planning department,
the planning department makes the following recommendations,
um, regarding the proposed wall.
The wall shall not, shall be constructed of eight feet high.
Brick and bust poured concrete with a
45 degree angle cap masonry block.
And precast concrete shall not be used
as construction material to preserve the setbacks along Anna
and Gerald avenues.
The wall shell began 25 feet south of the northwest corner
of lot 56, continuing south along the west line of lot 56
for 119 feet.
Then continuing east along the south line of lot 56
for 40 feet, then south along the west line of lot 76
for 119 feet, ending 25 feet north of the southwest corner
of lot 76.
And then it says, it is indicated in the application
that the petitioner is requesting a variance for two shifts.
The proposed hours of these shifts should be
specified by the petitioner.
The current hours allowed under zoning ordinance are 7:00 AM
to 7:00 PM That's
All. Thank you. At
this time, I close the public portion
of the meeting and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Lindsey, I wanna first say, uh,
I really appreciate the comments from the residents.
Hearing your feedback, um, really helps
to make decisions for us.
Um, and I do take your comments very, very seriously.
Um, I work in a manufacturing company
and we are faced with challenges and regulations
and ordinances all the time.
Um, it is a noisy environment, um,
but we have a responsibility as an employer to
abide by all the rules and regulations and work around them.
So initially when, when I heard, um, Ms.
Birdie speak, I I feel very strongly
about running two shifts.
I certainly don't want to see anybody lose their job.
Um, working in manufacturing, I wouldn't wanna see that for,
for my employees and in the people that I work with.
Um, and I believe that nobody here would.
Um, but I feel strongly at the same time that
as an employer there, there's gotta be ways
to, to work around this.
I don't know if the walls that that answer.
Um, but it sounds like from the comments I'm hearing, um,
that having the doors open is creating a lot of that noise.
Um, so that maybe there needs
to be investment in figuring out a way for insulation, um,
air conditioning so that the employer
can't keep the doors closed.
Um, that might help to, to run both shifts. Thank
You. May I comment?
Yes. I, I only take exception, uh, exception
to one thing that was said.
My client does not have an attitude of, I'm gonna do
what I wanna do, just gimme tickets.
That gets us nowhere. I mean, we, we just go to court
and deal with these ti That's, that's not the solution.
And that is not how this gentleman behaves.
Um, I will tell you that, um, he has done things
with the machines, under the machines.
He has, uh, done things with regard to, um, on the walls,
um, and had very good discussions with Mr. Everett Murphy,
let, had him in the facility, took advice from him.
Um, in, in, in essence, um,
discussing the different ways to solve the problem.
Problem the door does get opened to take supplies in,
to take product out.
I mean, it, it is, uh, functioning.
And on some of these summer days, it, it is pretty hot.
I, I do understand exactly what you're saying.
We have taken many of these measures
and this is the big measure in my opinion.
It is the big measure. And we don't wanna appear,
like our attitude is, well, if we don't get both, you know,
forget it, and we're taking our ball home
and we're not playing anymore.
But what we are saying is, from a financial standpoint,
it makes no sense
to put the wall in if he can't meet his contracts.
Right? I mean, and that's, that's a fiscal thing.
That's not a threat. That's not being rude.
That's just saying what makes financial sense
to make, to make this work.
What I heard from the planning department, um,
I understand they don't want the, um, segments.
They want a port and, and we can, we can do that.
But the, the key to me is that it's full concrete
because that's gonna make, if he,
if the gentleman is saying right now
that in his opinion it's 79 decibels, 76 decibels,
take 41 off of that, we are gonna go way down.
It's, it's gonna be a situation
where we're gonna be at 30 something decibels.
And that's our goal, is to, we want them to be able
to enjoy their property
and we need to be able to use our property.
We do wanna make this, this work.
So any part of an attitude
of give us tickets, we don't care. We do care.
Ms. Birdie, I do have a, a question for you.
What is the proposed time of the second shift?
So how many employees can we come up for one second
to make sure that I don't get this wrong.
How many employees, What is the shift
from what time to what time?
This is Mr. Herndon as I introduced earlier.
So we currently operate two shifts.
First shift being from 5:30 AM till two 30, uh,
and then two 30 until 11:30 PM Uh, we've been able
to eliminate the weekend work.
Mr. Chairman Point
Order, can I have your, your name for the record?
If you could state your name? Name.
Thank you. Yes. Uh, Ryan Herndon, owner of MMC roll form.
And the property at 2 6 6 1.
Your address. Thank you. And your
address please. Just for the record.
2 8 6 6 1 Van D**e Avenue in Warren.
Thank you. I would just like to mention to the neighbors
that are here today, tonight, just
because this wall may get approved
and the second shift is approved,
it doesn't take away your remedy from complaining.
If this does happen to get approved tonight
and you're still over the decibel reading or what,
however, the city measures that, you're still have the right
to complain and the city still has the responsibility
to enforce and to ticket, uh, for,
for being over the, over the reading.
Um, just from reading the, the log here of enforcement
and the inspector going out, it just seems like the, the,
the overwhelming problem is
that the noise is too loud when the doors open.
So I don't know how, um, hopefully this wall works good.
I don't have a problem with the wall being
over six feet tall.
I think the taller the better. Eight feet seems like a good,
uh, a good compromise.
But I just, I, I'm more concerned about if the wall goes in
and it's still too noisy for the neighbors
and it's over the allowed decibel rating for the, pursuant
to the ordinance, you're still gonna have a problem
where you might have
to put air conditioning in or more insulation.
And I, I, I want you to, to realize that, because we we're,
Can I, can I add some context
around the, uh, door situation?
Yes, please. So the building, as she explained,
was very old, speaking to
The mic a little bit.
So as she explained, the building was, was very old.
The original and only door, uh, for a number
of years was right on Van D**e.
So that door has been closed
and the only, uh, overhead door to, uh, move goods in
and out of the building is in the rear.
So when that door is closed,
there's a significant reduction in the noise.
But the problem is, is that's not sustainable.
You can't seal the building off.
You have to come in and out with goods.
And any of the comments I made about, uh,
keeping the door shut we're just relative
to our employees when it's 90 some degrees out
and the air conditioning doesn't exist in the building,
you can't ask people to work in
a hundred degree environment. So
When the door is open, is is it completely open
or is there a screen or is there rubber strips
that come down that you pass through? What
So it, it would be open.
Uh, we did, I've owned the building there for two years,
so since I've owned it, we have replaced the door
with an insulated door, uh, energy and noise.
So we've, we've done a number of things.
I always, uh, try
and run my business where I treat
people, how I would want to be treated.
So originally the first discussions we had
with the neighbors were shortly after we moved in,
and we've been working this relentlessly, working
with the city, working with them.
We've, we've spent a lot of money on foundations trying
to engineer this issue out.
Um, and it's really, in my belief, come to a situation
where the wall is the only sustainable way to stop the noise
because the door will open and close, you know.
And what is the size the wall will be there?
What is the size of the, the door approximately?
Uh, it's 18 foot wide by 18 foot Tall. Tall,
Okay. And where
you're proposing
to put the wall currently there's just a, a six foot high.
Is it chain link? Fence chain is
Chain link chain link fence.
Wow.
Okay. So there's no soundproofing right now? Mm-hmm.
No soundproofing. So are there other comments from the
board tonight, Mr.
Chairman? Mr. Cliff?
Hey, good evening, sir.
Um, to, uh,
did I understand you correctly, sir,
when you said you've owned the building two years?
Uh, I would, uh, I guess a little more.
So it would've been, uh, the, uh, 2022.
So when you moved in and set up shop
and operation, all the zoning ordinances were in effect at
the time when you moved into the building?
Uh, that that's correct. So we purchased the building from
a, uh, company called Center Line Dine Engineering.
Uh, they operated a similar stamping facility
and been in existence with two shifts for,
That was my next question. 20
years. The nature of the visit,
it's a stamping facility. Yeah.
Karen was able to establish it back to a certain point.
You know, the previous owners, I think, going back
to 2000 ish, definitely operated two shifts.
And more than that, more than that. So the,
The entity
that my client purchased from has sent us a letter
that they operated two shifts there the entire time
and operated a similar business.
In addition to that, I'm able to get back, I believe almost,
with only a two year gap to, uh, 1970.
So I am able to get back that far.
But again, see me just showing
that his grandfathered in doesn't solve the problem.
I need to address the problem of the noise.
And when he says he is tried to engineer it out, that means
that under his machines, he has put in ba um, I don't know
what they're called, but they're absorbers
underneath the machines.
He has put those in the insulated door.
Um, there's all sorts of efforts that he's made,
and that's what's gone on over the two years, you know,
with, with effort in that, okay, we'll try this,
we'll try that, we'll try this.
But it's a glaring mistake not to have a wall up back there.
I mean, that to me, um, if it can reduce it by 41 decibels,
we gotta, you know,
If, if I could just have the petitioner
and the representative standing, sir,
the public portion has been closed,
Well, they were able to say something and
That's not how this works.
Or the petitioner tonight part, I'm sorry, part
Of what they said was not true. They don't just open,
Open, we're discussing the matter
and the public portion is now closed. Thank you.
May I continue, sir? Please?
My next question is, uh,
how many people do you employ there?
We have, uh, just under 60 employees. Um,
When was your last certificate of compliance
for the building or your business issued to you?
Uh, would've been shortly
after, uh, moving in in 2022.
Uh, okay. That would be the reset for having
to be in compliance with all the ordinances
and the zoning as, as appropriate
and on the books at that particular time.
That's not The way I understand it to read.
Um, How many stamping machines do
you have in that building, sir?
We have eight. Eight All running. Usually
A couple down. Uh, it varies,
but, okay. Five, five to eight. Um,
I'll yield the floor. Thank
you. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, Secretary Jersey.
Um, to the petitioner, how many employees work per shift?
Uh, it's more on first shift.
So I'd say it's probably, uh, a 40, uh,
35, 25 split.
Okay. Um,
and then parking for, for the facility,
is it just on the side streets
Or, uh, so we, we do have, you know, when we moved in and,
and, and to further his question, uh, the city made a number
of, uh, recommendations that we addressed in terms
of the building and different things.
So, uh, we've paved a good pair portion
of the yard that was dirt.
Um, and we're working on creating more parking, so. Gotcha.
Uh, our next step with Karen would be
to publish a, uh, a site plan. Construct a site plan,
Understand, um, you know,
I have some concern about the outdoor storage going on at,
at that, but that's a separate issue.
But, um, going back to the wall and,
and the two shifts though, um, I think as a board,
we're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place.
Um, obviously nobody wants to see anybody lose their jobs.
We wanna see you succeed as a business owner.
We wanna see the homeowners enjoy the property to the utmost
that, that they can enjoy it because they've been there.
Um, I just feel like the issue
with the door is the main thing.
Um, I think, you know,
putting the wall in is a definitely a, a, a good,
a good need in that area.
I went by there and I couldn't believe how close
that one house was to the property line.
So I definitely don't, don't see a problem
with the eight foot high wall.
I mean, that, that, I think that's a necessity.
And I can't believe it's, there's not even a six foot wall
or some kind of wall there right now.
Um, but my concern is, you know, with the summer months,
the door going up
and down, I just kind of see this as kind
of being a dog chasing his tail type of thing.
Um, I don't see how you're gonna be able
to resolve that completely.
Um, other than trying to suggest to you to try
to keep the door closed as the best you can, as often
as you can, which I'm sure that hopefully you're doing,
but I just feel like we're, it's gonna be one of these ebb
and flow things, um, yeah.
Perpetually with the property.
So with that, I'll yield the floor to one of my colleagues,
Mr. Chair, Mr. Green.
So I have a couple items.
If you look at the backup that we received,
there's quite a few contradictions in it as
to a few items.
So that leads me to my first question.
So what's your future intent for this building?
Uh, you know, I, I owned the business, uh, for 10 years.
I started with, uh, three employees.
I grew it and, uh, made it a priority to remain in Warren.
We were on mir, them, uh, outgrew that building,
sold it moved here.
Uh, you know, we looked at other areas
and we want to remain in warrant.
So, uh, we want to get into compliance
and coexist with the neighbors.
So the wall isn't the end all be all.
We've done a lot of things, you know,
to, to the point with the door.
We run less machines at night.
Uh, we keep the door shut till it's, you know,
unbearable inside.
Our employees are all on board with trying to coexist.
So, to answer your question, you know, we,
we want to remain in Warren.
We want to, uh, continue to, to operate a business here.
So your intention for the building is to stay there
and keep all your employees working.
It is, uh, you know, so,
So that's contradictory to some of the
things I'm reading in my backup.
That's why I'm asking you.
I I'm not, I'm not sure what you're referring to.
You know, I, I know Haas said that he shared some messages.
We've had a ongoing dialogue
for two years now, so I don't know. What is that is? Well,
This, this is all public information.
'cause this is all foible.
So you anticipate, uh, winding down
and selling the building?
No, no. That's, that's not true at all.
We've, we've invested a tremendous amount of,
of money into these programs.
We've, we've, uh, grown there, um,
put money into the building.
Um, you know, my intention is to run this business.
It was started by my grandfather 50 years ago.
He made aluminum on components.
Uh, we've, we've transitioned away from that
and got into, you know, making parts for EVs.
We're one of the larger producers of solar parts.
I mean, we've, we've built the business here in Warren. So,
So one more item.
So I, I get, I think that the outside storage
and those other items do tie into this
because it's a matter of, uh, the,
the residents having confidence in
what you're saying right now that you're gonna do it.
And when I, I'm just calling a spade, spade,
when you look at the backup, the
outside storage has been addressed a few times
and it's still being used for outside storage.
Employees are still parking on the street,
which I can see would upset residents.
So when will that item,
you see where I'm getting with this?
So if, if you're not addressing that item,
what if I'm a resident makes me believe that you're going
to address this item, you know, as an ongoing item.
Let's say you put the wall up
and we have to add a few other things.
I mean, there, there's gotta be some
confidence and some trust.
And I can see with the, with the
outside storage not being addressed,
I I'm just wondering if maybe the, your facility's outgrown,
you know, if it's not working for you.
So, um, Mr.
Herndon did approach me with regard to the outdoor storage.
We discussed what needs to be done.
We have to get architectural drawings completed
before we can turn them into the planning department.
So we are in the process of doing that. I believe that Mr.
Herndon on his own brought up that,
that's our next step is a site plan
to the building department.
And that does what Ms. Brady, you
Gotta educate, takes care.
We deal with the outdoor storage.
So he's gonna get out outdoor storage,
Not necessarily, but we're Gonna have.
But that's the intent of the site plan.
The intent of the site plan is
to organize the outdoor storage.
Even if you're allowed outdoor storage in the city
of Warren, you have to have a site plan that shows
where it is and what it is.
So any way you slice it, he has to do a site plan for
that building that has to go
through the planning department.
So I, my last comment I would add then is if we do put a
wall up, if you drove by the, the facility, you'll see that,
that sometimes there's pallets that are stacked up.
One of 'em stacked up at least 15 to 20 feet.
There are metal containers, storage containers stacked
above the eight foot level.
Uh, there's a truck back there that hasn't been moved.
I don't, it's probably not operational.
There's a lot of things that, if I was a neighbor, would
make me feel like,
is this guy gonna follow through with this?
Well, I think the step, with all due respect,
I think the step of hiring me to start working
through these problems is an indication
that he's dedicated to it.
Because otherwise he would have no reason for me.
Um, we have talked about, um, what can be outside,
what can't be outside,
what we have to send through planning.
Um, like I said, it's an entire process we're working with,
getting the plans done.
Those plans will get turned in.
I mean, I've been hired to do it,
so I'm absolutely gonna follow through. Thank you.
The bottom line here is that if there's an issue
with storage, all eyes are gonna be on the petitioner now
all city departments.
And tonight we're here just about the wall
and the two shifts.
So if there's an issue about storage
that they can't resolve the planning, uh,
they always have the, the choice of coming back here with a,
for a variance to see if they can get more, uh, storage.
But hopefully they're able to have a, you know, an amicable,
um, you know, outcome with planning
and that they're able to confine whatever storage they may
be allowed outside.
Are there any other comments tonight about Mr.
Chair? Question,
Question to the petitioner.
Have, sir, have you tried, um, the rubber stripping,
vinyl stripping or rubber stripping
that goes on doors vertically? Yeah,
We've, We've looked at that.
We've looked at, uh, speed doors, uh, you know,
generally the companies we talked to said those were
for climate control, that those weren't going
to affect much in the way of sound.
Uh, Dre with the wall was,
was basically what we came up with.
You know, it's similar to what you have on the expressway.
Um,
Alright.
So Thank you
Personally. Um,
just going through this here,
I would like to see the wall.
Um, the two shifts. I don't have a problem with either.
As long as there are stated hours of the second shift,
I think that would be a good compromise.
And on the same token, if the wall does not solve the,
the noise problem, it does not take away the, the neighbor's
or, you know, their ability to complain
and the city's enforcement action
or the other comments tonight from the board.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Wats, I do have,
I do have a question maybe to Mr.
Waer. So let's say this doesn't solve the problem.
What will be the action after that?
What Um, well,
if they have the variances
and everything else, if the noise is still there,
we would go and look
and see what the decimal readings are and everything like that.
Uh, I don't think the decimal readings were extremely high
as far as at the property line.
Um, it may be the pounding
and everything that's creating more of an issue
and the noise generated from that.
I'm not exactly sure.
I have not been personally out there during this.
Um, I believe the public
service director has been out there.
It might be able to explain a little bit more. Um, Mr.
Dave Melli, if you would like to hear from him?
Yes. Yeah, I
Says Mr. As
Mr. Wapa said,
the decibel level was always right around the evening. Can
I have your name for the record? I'm sorry.
Dave Melli, public Service Director.
And your address please? Uh, one City Square.
Thank you. Um, as Mr.
Pont said, the decimal level was always right around
that 80 mark.
Um, the problem that Everett
and I came up with is that it's that continual,
that repetitive noise.
It's, it's, um,
I can't remember the exact wording that he used. Mr.
Chair. May I Resonance?
Pardon me Mr.
Ance, if you could please hold
until he's done with this comment.
He was asking, he was looking for I was trying
to help the resonance.
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's some sort of, some sort of,
you know, repetitive noise.
Um, it was a, like a nuisance.
It, it's still in the sound or the noise ordinance,
but it's as a repetitive noise.
Um, my only concern
with the wall is these people are
hearing it in their basement.
So that's already a, a wall.
So they're getting that noise in
that vibration in their basement.
So is the wall gonna stop that? I'm not sure.
And as far as the door being up, the door is always up.
I've been driving up probably by that property all the time.
That doesn't matter what the weather's like.
That door is always up.
Answer your question, Mr. Wats.
Yeah, I, I, I mean, I have some concerns
because obviously I've been around here all my life
and that building has been there forever
and it's not the only problem we have like that.
And now we have a new business that's come in there.
I mean, I, I I, I would love for them to see them succeed
and if the just wall could be the first step
and if it helps, fantastic.
I'd love to see it. That'd be great.
But I just, I'm not sold that, that's gonna be the,
it might just be the first step into the solution.
I'd ask what other solutions You have. I, I, we'll do
'em now. I, I'm,
I'm not sure that's what I'm saying.
I'm not sure that this is going to be the be all, end all
that we, that you think that it's going to be.
Okay. So I guess
that would, that would be all I got.
'cause he's added a little more to the, to the game there
with the repetitive noise in the basement,
so. Alright. Thank you
Mr. Chair. Mr.
Neitz. I just wanted to add one item.
See, I'm in support of the wall
because I think that will help.
Um, Norma, I'd be fine with two shifts.
So, so, but I've, I'll be honest, I had not been by
that building every day or so,
but twice I have driven by the building.
Uh, when this was first scheduled back then,
and then once recently,
and both times I drove by, the door's been open
and I understand it gets hot inside,
but I'm like, I'm sorry, the door needs to be closed.
If it gets too hot inside, they need to do something
with better air conditioning to provide for the employees.
But it, and I know, like I said, I've only been
by the building twice, but both those times
the door has been open.
And that's one of the concerns I have
because if the door's gonna be open,
even if you have the wall, I still
feel they're going to hear the noise.
And I do believe, you know,
'cause businesses change, this business is probably louder
than the previous ones had been due
to the nature of the business.
And that happens. But then maybe that's not the location
to be running two shifts
because if I was living in that area, I would not want that,
that second shift running, causing
that noise when I'm trying to fall asleep and such.
Right. That's my concern about, so it's just a comment.
Part of the situation is if,
if the two shifts can't be run for him
to meet his contracts, he's gonna have to have the
employees working over the weekend.
And we were really, really, really trying to avoid weekends
because what I thought was that
as homeowners use their properties,
usually not all the time,
but usually it's the evenings and the weekends.
And so we were trying not to run shifts, if you will.
Um, especially on Sunday,
but on on Saturday two, by running the two shifts.
If we don't run the two shifts to be within the, in the,
within the ordinance, we would run from seven to seven
Monday through Sunday.
I'm sorry for interrupting.
If, if I may, this just goes back
to the initial comment I had, that
they're gonna invest in the wall, hopefully the wall works.
If it doesn't work, the city still has recourse.
Unfortunately, Mr. Chair, what happens?
It's like, yeah, if the wall doesn't work,
they can still complain to the city.
The city can go out.
But since we approved the two shifts
and all that, you can't take that away.
I do. That's the Sure Mr.
I have a question for your comment.
Um, is there a, a violation of an ordinance that could, that
when that door is wide open all the time, is that it,
you know, it seems like obviously a restaurant couldn't have
their door open all the time going into the kitchen.
That would be of health hazard. But
There is nothing other than it creating the noise.
There is nothing that would prevent a door from
being open in a factory.
Okay. Did you have another comment to make? Um,
If it's plausible for the board
and the petitioner to agree, I know I've heard him say
that going down to one shift that they could do
by eliminating people
and everything, if the board was to approve the wall
and post
or postpone the shifts until a month
after the wall was there.
So there could be some effect of that without,
with it being postponed, he wouldn't have
to cut back to one shift.
He can run his production and go that way,
but then there would be input for that second
shift at that point.
And whether or not it had to be cut.
Um, I know they want to go forward
with both at the same time,
but I've listened to the board, listened to the residents,
and listened to their comments as well to see if
that would all work is, it's only a suggestion.
That's all it is at this point from what I've heard.
That's a good suggestion. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Cliff. I just wanted to touch on that.
Stamping plants create that vibration
directly into the floor and the foundation of the building.
And I don't know if we have the capability, maybe one
of the gentlemen can answer if we have the capability
to measure resonance waves
and how it affects the neighboring properties.
Because I've heard from residents saying
that they're hearing this noise in their
basement and in their home.
And I've got a little bit of experience dealing
with stamping plants in close proximity.
The stuff travels through the ground, it'll fan out.
It depends on what the material of the earth all the way
around is made up of what the foundations are made up of.
Rattle your walls, rattle your mirrors,
even though your decibel level is low,
that resonance in the ground travels and it moves
and it has a negative effect on neighboring objects,
structures, and foundations.
I think my personally, that that's the big thing
that's being tried to be dealt with here
and him cushioning the floor pans
and maybe, I don't know if you've got the rubber style
or the spring style plates that the machine sit on re
once that once that low base resonant sound
impacts something, it has less of a chance
of being reflected off it
and more of a chance of passing through it.
To, to answer your question from measuring resonance,
zoning, measuring, um, I was gonna answer
that the only thing we have capability of
and within the ordinance is the decibels.
Okay. And I don't know that that would solve anything.
And we'd have to probably re or write a new ordinance
or something like that to just curious to equate
to some other, um, factors.
Okay. Um, and that would be after the fact already.
So it'd already be nonconforming at that point as well.
Um, if there was a way to measure it, it might bring light
to it, but we wouldn't have any
code enforcement on that, that point. Understood.
I I understand It's just resonance
is a very hard thing to measure.
Ms. Ferdy, you, I don't, I don't know if
the sound heard in the basements was before or
after we've taken measures indoors.
'cause we have taken measures in putting the, um,
shock absorbers and everything like that under the machines.
And that was one of the things that we did when, um,
the issue first, uh, came up.
So I don't know if the complaint about the, I don't know
how you're describing it, vibration or whatever isn't
before we took those measures
because now the machines, um, that was one of the things
that we worked on with Mr. Murphy.
He came through and told us about, um,
measures we could take under the machines.
And those measures have been taken.
My my comment is that residents really has no ability
to be measured that I know of anyway,
unless you're physically standing in somebody's basement
who's complaining to hear what it is that they're hearing.
And when residents show up to a meeting like this,
I take a lot of stock in what they have to say
because there's nothing worse in the world
than owning a piece of property
and having it constantly being encroached upon by
something going on in the neighborhood
that probably shouldn't really be there in the first place.
Not to say that your, your factory shouldn't be
there in the first place.
I'm just, I'm of the mind frame that
that location isn't exactly conducive
to an eight machine stamping plant right up against the
neighborhood like that.
I'm off for your wall,
but I have a real issue with with the two shifts working.
Yeah. And I'm gonna leave it at that. I'll yield the floor.
Do you Want Ms. Birdie, you've heard our
comments tonight so far.
Would you like to make any possible
compromise on the second shift?
Maybe delaying it till after the, the wall is installed?
I I know the, the petitioner's gonna be investing a
a ton of money in this wall.
If I were in his shoes,
I would have a super sound engineer on my side ensuring
that whatever I'm about
to do is gonna be effective and efficient.
Um, but you've heard the comment
so far tonight. I actually have,
I kind of got a proposal here.
Um, I actually, I came up with something that might work.
Um, so if I made a motion, I would make a motion
to grant the eight foot wall to be constructed by the end
of October, 2025, like you stated.
And then a time study to, to allow a time study
of three months after the construction of the wall
to test out the sound difference
and then go with the second shift from there.
So try and do like some kind of time study
with the wall in place.
How, how it's affecting everything
before we wouldn't, wouldn't deny the second shift.
We would just kind of postpone it indefinitely to try
and get some kind of parameters in place, you know,
um, of, of what the study would be for the wall.
That's, Uh, I'm, I'm all for a compromise.
I, you know, I would ask what,
what is the metric to study that?
So we, we put in the wall and is it continued complaints
or is it an actual study of the decibels?
I I, I have a way to maybe simplify this.
I I'm gonna mention this to the city attorney and to Mr.
Pont. Similarly to how we
grant temporary tents, you know, for a certain period
of time, could we approve the wall
and approve a second shift for a certain period of time,
let's say maybe one year.
And they could come back to,
I don't believe you can grant a temporary variance
for something that's not a temporary use.
And I would probably ask the city attorney
and probably the former secretary of the board, Ms.
Birdie on that one. But I think she would agree
that you can't do a one year on a variance.
So what do you, what are you saying is that, um, uh,
variance is wrong with the land.
Mm-hmm. And they tie to the land.
However, it is agreeable
and I've seen it in Troy actually, where
if there is an agreement, if the parties agree,
if the board agrees
and the parties agree, then it, um, is possible
to do any type of conditions that the parties all agree to.
At this point, you've, uh,
given me a lot to think about and Mr.
Pont just told me there's a gentleman here who
also has some I ideas.
If you will, may, may we table this to just the next meeting
so that I can talk to my client about some
of these alternatives.
Possibly come up with, um, some language if that's it.
See if there aren't other things we can do.
I don't know who this gentleman is,
but if I'm willing to listen to anybody,
if he's got some good ideas.
So, um, uh, can we table this
to the next meeting for me to have a chance to talk
to my client and see how we proceed?
Okay. Time to determine. We,
I personally don't have a problem with tabling.
Um, of course there has to be a motion made for it.
The other alternative is that we approve the, the wall
and we just table the, the second,
Postpone the second one until the time to be
Determined. Okay. But what
I don't want to do is mislead the residences
that necessarily we're saying we'll put a wall up
and not have the, you get what I'm saying?
I don't want them to think that's a commitment from us
till we figure out what
We're doing. You, you have to
come back anyway.
So I don't have a problem personally
with tabling both items, but there'd have to be a
When's the next meeting?
April 8th Meeting.
April 9th. Okay.
We're not gonna have a full board on April 8th.
We're gonna be down at least one member that we know of.
That's it. April 9th. Yeah. April 9th. I'm sorry.
Is the next meeting April 9th?
The one of the neighbors is saying he'd like
to come back in May,
but I don't know when the May meeting is.
There is April 23rd. April. April 9th and April 23rd.
I think I'm good with the 23rd.
Third, Okay.
Yes. Motion to able.
And our support is Till April 23rd.
We have a motion to table item six by Mr. Cliff.
Support by Mr. Neitz until April 23rd. All in favor?
Aye. Item six has been tabled until April 23rd.
Thank you.
This brings us to item seven.
Item seven, applicant.
Simona Mia, representative Simona Mia.
Common description, 3 0 9 7 1 Lorraine branch.
Request requested permission to widen concrete driveway in
the front setback nine feet,
six inches from the north corner
of the garage towards the north property line.
Is the petitioner present for item seven.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion to move item seven
to the end of the agenda
and make it item 19,
Support. Support
a motion by Secretary Jersey. Support by Mr.
Cliff to move item seven to item 19. All in favor? Aye.
Item seven has been moved to 19.
This brings us to item seven A,
Which Was former formerly 19. Dig it out.
Item seven, a Applicant city of Warren Oxana,
urban representative Brandon Chadley.
VE common description 1 3 7 0 0.
SED branch requested permission
to construct a library on a property
that is not on a major thoroughfare
and does not have vehicular access to
and from it by way
of a major thoroughfare or collector street.
Good evening. If you could please start
with your name and address for the record.
Yes, good evening. Um, my name is Brandon Chaney.
Um, I'm Whit Bil.
We're the land planners and civil engineers for the project,
um, 30 37 Miller Road, Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Thank you. And ma'am, if you plan to speak,
if you'd state your name and address.
Okana Urban Library Directors. Uh, one City Square.
Thank you. Please tell us about the library.
Yeah, so I'm, I'm here today representing OXANA Urban, um,
and the city's public library libraries, um,
for the proposed branch library at 13,700 Sedona.
Um, this is a small branch library here
to service the southeast portion, um, of the city.
Um, for those of you who do not know, uh,
we did just recently receive conditional approval from
planning commission just a few weeks
ago for the proposed library.
Um, and with some coordination with the planning staff, um,
we, we found that it was fit to apply for
these set of variances.
So the project
or the property is zoned R one C,
so the proposed library is allowed by right
with conditions applied.
That's per the Section five 11.
We are able to meet all those sections except sec,
subsection one and four.
So the property is not located along a major thoroughfare,
but rather it's located 275 feet east of Shaner,
which the city does consider the major thoroughfare.
Um, a reason why we believe that the variance, um,
should be allowed here is that we believe the intent
of the zoning ordinance, section five 11, was to be applied
for uses with substantially higher traffic flows.
So that being public schools, larger, full-size libraries,
churches, synagogues, so on
and so forth, um, like I said,
we're proposing a 2,600 square foot small branch library
just to service the local neighborhoods, um,
in the Southeast Michigan.
So we, we do feel though that
we won't have major impacts like the intent
of Section five 11 indicates.
Um, so with that, both myself
and Ana are here for any questions you have.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this
item? Good
Good evening to all. My name is Bernice Morton.
I live at 1 4 1 0 3 Sherman Avenue.
Thank you. If you could just speak up, please.
Can you hear me now? Yes. Thank you. Okay.
I'm here because I don't think the library is needed.
And I say that because we have a library
that's located in Detroit,
down on Shaner in Grain in Six Mile.
The other library is at East Point.
There's a school, one elementary school that's over there,
and it's the Lord of Harvest
Church that's sitting on the corner.
This is a residential area where it's a park
Sed Underwood Park.
I think that those libraries are close enough
also in East Point.
And Warren in that area is a restrictive setting area
or restrictive setting.
As far as living individuals, um,
I've looked at other libraries.
I just left the library today. The main one.
It's not that many people there.
It's not that many people that go to the library on Van D**e
because there's an issue with using the internet.
Once they connected the police station there,
you can't use the internet long
because it'll shut your,
what you're doing on the internet down.
Um, they had more population there when they were at
the old location.
Also, I wanted to say it's invading the privacy
of us as residents.
That park is used by children.
I know where they're trying to sit it. I went around there.
It's where the, um, it's a shelter there.
So they have a restroom.
I saw that restroom open one time when I used it
for a family reunion.
I haven't saw it open anymore.
And if they wanted to build an extra library
or use a library, use the elementary school
that's on the other side, add onto that.
But to build another library,
we don't have people using the libraries now like that.
So I don't understand why it's the need
to put another library in this area when we already have two
libraries that's of use.
We don't have a community center in that area
besides what the Lord of Harvest does.
Um, I feel that it will be another, um, millage.
The millage will increase as far
as our utilities over there, as far
as our insurance and everything else.
Um, Shaner is not a fully a bust line
that they can use to get to it.
Oh, I'm also forgot that it's Academy of Warren
that sits on eight Mile by where, um, our van was.
But if they wanted to spend money on anything, it needs
to be a community center in that area, not a library.
'cause we already have li Library
accessibility in that area.
So that's my gist of it.
Thank you for listening to me and have a great evening.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone else in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
I would just like to, um, address the, oh, and I'm sorry.
We do have a, a impact
statement from the planning
department. We'll read into the record.
Uh, thank you Mr. Chair.
Um, playing department, uh, reviewed the requests
and they found no issues were found to impact the budding,
uh, local or general public.
Thank you. And just to address the,
um, audience members
or concerns, um, obviously the, the city doesn't own
the school that is close by there
and the planning department has already approved this
request, as we've heard from the impact statement.
Um, personally, I think it would be a nice addition
to the area and I believe it
upholds the spirit of the ordinance.
Um, those are my comments.
What other comments do we have in the board, Mr.
Chair? Mr. Watts,
So I can kind of address the residents concerns.
'cause this one all went down when I was on city council.
The residents of that area overwhelmingly
requested a library.
They requested a couple different forms,
and this is where we wound up at today.
Um, there was a library at Stevens and,
and, uh, Shana roughly,
and that was closed as well
as one other library closed in the city, uh, common.
And, and Shaner was closed, so
that left the east side of the city without a library.
So that's why we're, we've headed here.
The residents were overwhelming that they wanted a library.
It's gonna be smaller than normal.
Um, and I'm, you know, I'm glad we,
we had property we didn't have to buy
to do this get set out of the way.
I would've rather it been on Shane or something,
but there just was nothing available.
But I, I support this and I would make a motion to approve.
Thank you for those comments, Mr.
Chair. The only thing I want to add to, uh,
the petitioner is, you know, looking at that corner, um,
with the business on the corner
and it, the library not being, um,
on a major thoroughfare or on a major corner.
Um, there is no, um, no street light at
that corner or on that street.
So the accessibility for people on the west side
of Shaner trying to get to the library crossing Shaner, um,
there's no real good way to get across the road.
You know, there's no stop, no way to stop traffic.
Maybe, maybe we do some kind of study
to put a light there at SED and, and,
and Shaner maybe in the future to help, you know,
accessibility to that, um, to, to the new library.
I would assume that would come from
the county, probably. Right?
Hopefully. I mean, but I mean, that's just one thing
that I kinda saw driving into the area and, um,
and, um, to echo Mr.
Watson's, uh, um, comments.
Um, you know, I was in a lot of those meetings too,
where a lot of people on the east side were, were,
were intimate about trying to have a library
or someplace to go, um, that there was no library east
of Van D**e in the city.
So I think this is a good project, um, in a decent area,
just kind of concerned about the accessibility, um,
on the other, you know, going west, um, uh, of the road.
So hopefully you'll take that into consideration, um,
when moving forward with everything.
But I, this is something I could get behind as well.
So I'll yield the floor.
Mr. Mr. Reitz, I'd actually like to echo Mr.
Jersey's comment because I actually find
that's the one detriment to that location
that I saw is the lack of a way of crossing Shaner.
Because, you know,
even like the library here at the community center,
if you're on the other side of mound,
there's at least a light there at Arden and Mound.
So you can cross at least at a light
and over there near, I, I forget
where the nearest light was.
That's not very convenient for crossing over to the library.
So I would really would hope that if it's the county
that puts in a streetlight, that I would hope
that the library group would actually approach the county,
be proactive about trying to get a light
and not wait till, you know,
There's a problem.
But other than that, I can be, I'm behind the,
the new library is just that accessibility
with the a light would be my preference.
Thank you. Thank you for that, for that recommendation.
Any other comments or possible motions?
Um, nobody else has any comments.
I'd like to make a motion. Uh, I'd like to make a motion
to grant, um, permission
to construct a library on a property that is not
on a major thoroughfare
and does not have vehicular access to
and from it by way of a major thoroughfare
or collector street due to the fact that the size
and shape of a lot, and it's not a detriment to the area
Support. We
have a motion by Secretary Jersey, support
by Mr. Lindsey to approve.
The request is read Mr.
Store, which those may, oh,
I'm sorry, Mr. Store.
I'm going deaf. Sorry.
All right. Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion. Um, Mr. Svi? Yes.
For reason stated in the motion, uh, Mr. Watts? Yes.
Uh, Mr. Cliff? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For
The reasons stated in The motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Um, Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion, um,
Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
And Chairman Aya? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.
Have a good night. Good
Night. This
brings us to item eight.
Item eight. Item eight. Applicant.
Caroline Cook, representative Caroline Cook.
Common description, 8,700 continental
experiences requested permission
to operate a boarding house in a R one C district in a legal
non-conforming two-family dwelling.
Good evening. Good evening. Excuse me.
Uh, my name is William Stein. I'm an attorney.
Uh, I'm not on the agenda as a representative,
but I'd like to represent Ms. Cook this evening, uh,
with your permission, could
I, I, I'll allow it. If,
could you state your address though, please?
Uh, my office address is 1 6 1 0 2 9 Mile
Road, east Point, Michigan.
Thank you. And if your client plans on speaking
tonight, her name and address?
She may, yes, go ahead. Thank you.
My name is Caroline Cook.
My address is 1 6 9 8 0 Kingsburg Drive in
Clinton Township, Michigan.
Thank you. You have the floor.
Thank you. Um, well, as I indicated, I'm,
I'm representing Carolyn Cook now. She's the, uh,
If you could pull that down a little bit. Oh,
Sorry. Thank you, Carolyn.
Carolyn Cook is the sole member
of an LLC that owns, uh, 8,700 Continental.
Uh, she petitions this board for a variance, uh, as
to the use of that property.
Um, presently she's being charged in the District court,
Warren District Court, um,
for running an illegal boarding house.
And that case is now pending.
We dispute that it's a boarding house, uh,
because we feel it doesn't meet the definition
of boarding house, but,
but that's really not the point this evening.
I don't believe so. I, I won't dwell on that.
What we're asking for is a variance to allow her
to continue doing with the property, what she, uh,
has been doing all along, and that's renting to individuals.
Um, the property was originally built, as I understand it,
in 1940.
It was a duplex at that time.
It was, uh, a, a double double residence.
Um, it still is.
There's an upstairs residence
and there's a downstairs residence,
and each unit has three bedrooms, bathroom, a kitchen,
and, uh, uh, its own furnace, uh, and water here.
As I understand, um,
it's almost like there are two separate houses, um,
in which she rents out.
She rents out to, uh, women, women only.
Um, the downstairs has three women living in it.
Um, and that woman, uh, one
of the women has been there for nine years.
Another of the, uh, second woman has been there
for four years, and the last woman has
been there for two years.
The upstairs has two people.
The first woman, um, um, has lived there
for 13 years.
And, uh, the second one for only two years.
And of course, we're asking that, uh, uh,
Ms. Cook be allowed to continue using the property
as she has all along for at least 13 years, uh, as a rental
for these individuals.
Um, Recently,
uh, Ms. Cook made numerous corrections so that
to the property as requested by the, uh, city, uh,
spending approximately, uh, $7,500 to get the, uh,
property in shape, uh, to, uh, end up to code.
Um, there's no detriment to allowing her
to rent to these people.
Uh, no detriment to the neighbors or to the neighborhood.
There's no infringement on the neighbors.
There's been no complaints in 13 years.
There's been no nuisance to anyone,
and there's been no, uh, cause for, uh,
public safety concerns in that 13 years.
So it's, it's like, um,
she's renting to individuals.
Um, and it's caused no problem, uh,
at all to the neighborhood.
It's no different than, uh, than a normal rental.
Uh, the only difference is the tenants are not related
to one another as a family would be.
She could rent to three, uh, family members, one
of the unit, and I think she'd be in compliance.
Uh, but she's renting to three women separately,
and there really is no difference as to the use
of the property and
to its effect on the neighboring, uh, homes.
Um, she had her
LLC, it's called d and d assisted living, LLC.
That implies that it's a, it's an assisted living facility,
but it's not, it's not used as a a
in any manner as a, um, care facility.
She doesn't, while she,
while her profession is giving us care
for assisted living people, uh, uh,
these people in her unit don't require that care,
and she doesn't, uh, bestow it upon them.
Um,
Some of the tenants, um, have been placed in her homes,
in her home by Adult Protective Services
and by the county of McComb.
One, one is an abused, uh, wife who lives there.
But these women are independent.
Uh, there's no care being offered to them.
And, uh, some of them even drive, um,
if they were to be evicted.
And that would be the effect if, uh, uh, uh,
the variance wasn't granted.
She'd be in a situation where she has to evict these people,
and if some of them were evicted,
they'd become homeless possibly.
And, uh, that would be a real blight to the city.
Um, but it's really not different than a normal rental.
Um, and we're asking that the court grant us a variance
so that these good people do not have to be evicted.
Um, we, there was, um, a gentleman sitting with us,
uh, a little while ago.
He had to leave. Uh, he, uh, was the individual
who owns a neighboring home that he rents out,
and he, um, wanted to make a statement to, uh,
to the, uh, to you folks.
And, um, he had to leave, he had
to pick up his son, I believe.
So he texted a statement to me,
and with your permission, I'd like
to read that into the record.
I'll allow it. Thank you.
Um, this is the, uh, from the,
If you, if you have his name and address.
Yeah. Um,
his name is, um, Wes Zari,
ZARI.
He says, my name is we, sorry, I apologize for leaving.
I had to go pick up my son anyhow. Can
I, is there an address that he provide?
Um, yeah, well, he, he's the owner
of 8 6 9 2 Continental.
Okay. Which is the neighboring home. But he rents that out.
He's got a tenant there.
He says, I would like the board to know
that I've been neighbors with Caroline for 15 years.
I've never had any issues with the people living there.
Matter of fact, I think what she does
for the people is a blessing.
Also, I would like to add
that my current tenant has no problem
with the people next door,
and they have a very good relationship.
Once again, I apologize for leaving.
If you have any questions, feel free to call me.
He gives his telephone number also,
which I won't bother reading.
Um, and he, he asked if we give that, uh, uh,
statement to, to the, uh, panel.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. But
before I close the public portion, I'll have Mr.
Jersey read on the planning
impact statement into the record.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Um, per the planning department, um,
after review of the request, there are no issues to be found
to impact the budding local or general public.
Thank you. This time I'll turn it over
to the board for discussion.
Mr. Mr. Green.
So I have a few questions.
So you've been operating this for how many years?
How many years have you been operating this for?
I originally bought the home as my home.
And, uh, I do home care through the state of Michigan.
I have d and d assisted living, which is a state agency,
and I go do home care.
So I met several workers
and people throughout going home, doing home care.
I bought the home back in 2008. It was old.
Need a lot of work. Um,
as I stayed there, I did a lot of work to it.
Um, so meeting people,
I was asked through adult protective service.
They would, they introduced me to people that was homeless,
people that was abused, and they had nowhere to go.
I don't make a lot of money. These people pay 400,
they put $400 together, and they pay me one amount.
Um, so I do this to help people.
I was abused as a woman by my ex-husband.
So when they asked me to do this, yes,
I, I'll rent 'em the room.
Yeah, sure. And as they stayed there
together, they became a family.
They're not just what, uh, tenants,
or, I don't know what you wanna, they're family there.
They there together. Uh, two of 'em drive.
Uh, one of 'em goes to, uh, what is it, pace?
I mean, I don't know.
So how many, how many years have you been doing this?
So the, the, I guess the big thing is here is, so every,
every item we have is referring to it as a boarding house.
Mm-hmm. You're saying it's not a boarding house.
When you, when we look at the, the, uh, the backup
that we have, it says petitioner seeks
to operate a boarding house in a R one C district in an
illegal nonconforming two, family dwelling.
So I would ask the city attorney,
have they lost their nonconformities?
Because now it's a boarding house.
I It on you. I'm not asking you right now,
but that, that, that would be a, a question I have,
If I'm not mistaken.
Mr. Walter? Oh, I'm sorry.
If I'm not mistaken.
Then the legal non-conforming is the fact that it's a duplex
and an R one C.
Correct.
It's a, a, uh, two family dwelling. Yes.
Yes, yes. Well, yeah.
The non-conformity is that it's got two separate, an upper
and a lower in this case, in that location.
But I'm asking legally if they've lost that by,
by it. It's a boarding house.
It, it, So for these, these, uh,
that takes me back to my original question.
So you've been doing the boarding house
for 13 years. You, you indicated
About that long. Yes.
Is it all been elderly people?
Yes. The ladies, Are these people, any
of these people referred to you by the state of Michigan?
Are they what now? Are these Yes. All protected service.
Are you receiving a payment from the state of Michigan?
No. But the State of Michigan refers clients to you.
Yeah. Well, if they're homeless
or abused, they ask me,
can I put house them in my hou at my house?
Well, may I just say, so this is not a,
uh, an adult foster
Home? No,
no.
How many people can,
how many people can be in one of these?
R threes is what it boils down to.
These, this, this apartment that you have,
how many people can live in there?
I don't like using the term apartment
because it's not an apartment. It's a,
Well, I, this is my, this is my opinion.
Yeah. So what I'm saying is
how many people can live in there?
There's, that's what we're here to
Four level two.
Well, can 20 people live in a R one C?
No one family can. Okay. And
I think, I think there's a good
Argument. So if they're, if they're
doing, I,
my my point is if they're doing elderly people
Five years from now, there could be seven
18 year olds in that house.
And then it creates a new problem.
The problem is all eight,
all those people are gonna driving cars.
So whatever we do today is permanent.
And I think we have to look at the big picture.
And I don't think there's, the hardship has been, is there,
because it's an R one C, I don't think there's,
there is a hardship and I,
I think the non-conforming use is gone
for the two family dwelling
or whatever you guys, whatever you refer it to.
And it's running a business.
Since you don't own the house, your d
and d assisted living owns the house.
It's, you're running a business in a residential.
And I, I, I look at the backup about this missing middle
city information.
It's a slippery slope. It, it really is.
So I'm, I'm concerned about,
uh, this whole thing.
Are you licensed by the state?
No. No. No. Okay. Those are my comments.
People that you're concerned about. I'm sorry,
I'm, I'm sorry. A
question hasn't been asked. Mr. Watts, you have the floor.
I, I have a question. I'm I have the
same concerns, Mr. Green.
So here's my question. How long does a
non-conforming use last?
Because it's my understanding in the past
if there's a non-conforming use,
once it's something is sold, it has
to be come up to the standard.
Am I correct in that?
Uh, no. Once a non-conforming use
is there, it continues, its non-conformity
until it changes its use.
Mr. Green brought up a point on whether
or not it's changed its use.
I don't think we've approached the attorneys with that,
because it's still two separate dwellings there
that are renting out rooms now as opposed to a single thing.
So I, I will look further into that, that Mr. Green says,
but as long a non-conforming loses its
non-conformity, once there is improvements
or anything, 30% greater than the true cash value
or changes it choose.
Okay. So if they put an addition on there,
even though it stayed to family,
it would lose it if it was more than 30%
of true cash value also.
Okay. Thank you. So that, my concern is that
we're running a business in a residential
besides the non-conforming, I'm confused about that,
obviously, but we can get answers.
But the other half the coin is, I see this
as a business operating in a residential area.
And I have a problem with that,
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Schitz. That's our position.
See, I I,
I mean this property is basically a duplex,
but a boarding house is more different.
And actually, I, I really just wanna make this comment
'cause I know that I,
fellow board member here made a comment about
the missing middle boarding houses are not part
of the missing middle duplexes triplex.
Oh. So, you know, duplexes, triplexes, uh,
live work kind of locations,
that's part of the missing middle.
It's not boarding houses. That's why it's not on that list.
Um, I have no problem with this area,
that house being used as a duplex.
I just always worry about if you're doing a boarding house
that is a business in that neighborhood with six bedrooms,
that's six people that could have
potentially up to six cars.
I know the current tenants do not all have cars
or don't all drive, but technically in the future they could
have sex and driving by
and taking a look at the driveway and stuff.
That house does not have parking for six cars. No.
Um, so that's my concerns,
Mr. Chair. Um,
to, to Steve, is there any way if we,
if we made a motion, could we put a number on the amount
of people allowed in the boarding house?
I believe you can put that condition on.
I would defer to the city attorney on that.
Maam. Attorney. I believe you. Oh my gosh.
I believe you can. But, and,
and just reading the definition of, of boarding house,
I don't know that it, it qualifies
A boarding or rooming house.
Shall construe to mean any dwelling occupied in any such
manner that certain rooms in excess of those used by members
of the immediate family
and occupied as a home or family unit.
Correct. The, the last portion I'm reading, no, um, are
Lease or rented to persons outside of the family
without any attempt to provide therein therewith cooking
or kitchen accommodations.
But the abuse of the kitchen,
There are, uh, kitchen accommodations.
The, the way it was presented at the counter was they are
renting rooms that the kitchen
is not their kitchen.
It's a shared kitchen at that point.
Okay. I I, I understand what you're saying
and I just reading that, I mean, it, it's difficult
to determine whether they mean a kitchen
in the bedroom or, I
I didn't write these.
I know, I, so I just reading the definition, I'm, I
would need to, to further do research to see if it even
fell under the definition of a boarding house.
To me, it doesn't matter whether it's a technically a
boarding house or not, or not, um,
Ms. Cook seems like a very nice person.
She's doing a good thing.
She seems genuine, but unfortunately,
I think she's doing it in the wrong place.
It's a a a, technically
it's single family home for one family.
Now, I think there's a good argument to be made
that it could be a duplex like Mr.
Neitz indicated, because there's two entrances,
there's two kitchens.
Fine. That's still technically not allowed anymore.
But I think if you came and said, I want
to have this home into two families, I,
I think you'd probably get the support for that
because there's a need for a duplex.
But I just have a problem now.
I know the tenants there have been there for a long time
and they're good people, but it's just, it, it,
it sets this just something, it,
it doesn't sit well with me.
If every house on the street, it, it'll start something,
the neighbors will come, I'd like to run out.
I have three bedrooms. I wanna have three people in my home.
I have four bedrooms. I want four people in mine.
It, it doesn't sit well with me.
And that, that's sounds like the
overarching opinion tonight.
Um, are there any other comments,
Mr. Chair from the board?
Mr. Cliff, Is there a sunset
option we could put in here?
It's viable until the LLC dissolves with the owner
sells correction.
I wish there Was, but I don't think there
is not on this.
And going back to my colleague, Mr. Green,
where they talked about this middle
house, missing middle housing.
Every type of housing that was listed on that list
is all intended for each individual unit, be it a duplex,
a triplex, a fourplex to be occupied by one family,
a single family, not multiple people.
So I don't even know where that kind of came from,
but I, I look at it with some of my other colleagues.
This is running a business in a neighborhood.
I'm not worried so much about the
people that are already there.
Nobody showed up in opposition,
but 10 years, 15 years down the road,
what do you have living in a boarding
house in that neighborhood?
And that's where my concern lies.
No disrespect to the petitioner whatsoever,
but it's our job to look not only at the present,
but what's happening down the road in the future.
And there's just, for me,
there's too much at stake in the neighborhood.
Um, having a boarding house with five bedrooms where five
or 10 or 15 different people can move in and rent there.
Um, I, I, I agree.
I think she's doing a great, wonderful thing,
but she's doing it in the wrong place.
I'll yield the floor.
May I respond to that?
No, I'm sorry. Are there any other
comments from the board here tonight?
Anyone like to make a motion?
I'll make a motion. If, if, uh, all comments are done,
Please do.
I actually will make a motion to deny,
to deny the petitioner's request to operate a, oh, sorry.
I wanna make a motion to deny the petitioner's request
to operate a boarding house in the R one C district in a
legal non-conforming two, family dwelling reasons being, um,
size and shape of the lot, the detriment to the neighborhood
and it's economic in my opinion.
Support. We have a motion to deny by Mr.
Neitz, support by Mr. Watts to approve, to deny the request
for the reasons given a yes vote is to deny
Mr. Starch
A yes. To deny
Mr. Watts Yes.
To deny Mr. Cliff?
Yes. To deny Mr. Assessor?
Yes. To Deny Mr. Lindsey
Yes. To deny
Mr. Green? Yes.
To deny Mr. Perry
No. To approve
Mr. Jersey votes?
Yes. To deny to Chairman Safia.
Regrettably. Yes. To deny. I'm sorry.
Your request has been denied. I wish you the best. Thank
You. Thank you for the wishing.
This brings us to item nine.
Item nine, applicant image 360 Brighton.
Representative Robert Dempster, era t taban.
Hopefully I said that right.
Common description, 1 1 812 mile variances requested
permission to erect a 20 foot wide by 50 foot tall,
1000 square foot.
Temporary banner sign higher than six feet
above surface grade for a period of one year.
Is the petitioner present here for item nine?
I'm sorry, yes. Item nine.
Okay. Of course, this was the easier one.
Okay, let's, uh, do we have a motion
to table the as to motion
To table or to What number is it?
19 A.
It's nine April.
Table to April 9th. Or do you wanna
Put it, why don't we just put it
at the end of the agenda for now? Oh,
Motion to table.
Make the item number nine to, yeah. What are we at 19 B?
Yep. 19 A
19 A support.
We have a motion by Mr. Watts, support by Mr. Perry
to table item nine to 19 A. All in favor?
Aye. We'll recall item nine as 19 A.
It takes us to item 10.
Um, applicant Nicola Shago, representative Nicola Shago.
Description, 1 3 7 4 0 12 mile
various requested permission
to allow retail carpet showroom business in a C
one zoning district.
Good evening. Uh, good evening.
Uh, Nick, Nick Shingle, 1 3 7 0 0 12 Mile Road.
Warren, uh, we own, uh,
Plaza and 13 Mile and Mound, the Village Plaza
and a couple other properties in the, in the city.
Um, we have a tenant that wants to open a, a carpet,
uh, retail shop.
He has two employees
and, uh, it's a, it's a two man show.
They just, they do sales and installation.
Um, is there any questions as far as, uh, the,
the tenant is concerned?
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
I'm not seeing anyone. I close the public portion
of the meeting and turn it over to the board for discussion.
I don't believe there's a planning impact statement on this.
I don't think there is one.
Uh, personally, I I think it's a not very intense use.
But what are other
Mr. Chair
Thoughts? Mr. Sitz?
I've always felt that the, the, the separation
of what's a C one
and a C two seems very nowadays does not very relevant
because you take a look at what makes
a carpet retailer more intense than some other kind
of retailers in that kind of location.
I personally think that's a good use for the property
and a good tenant for that plaza,
bringing more traffic and such.
Thank you. I agree.
Any other comments from the board or motions?
There's no other comments. I'd like to make a motion.
Please do. I'd like to make a motion to, to allow, uh,
approve the petitioner's request
to allow Harford retail showroom
in a C one zoning district reasons being the size
and shape of the lot and non detriment to the neighborhood
Support. We
have a motion by Mr.
Neitz, support by Mr. Perry to approve the request as read
Mr. Nevi?
Yes. For reasons stated in motion. Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Mr. Lindsey? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. Mr. Green? Yes.
For the reason stated of the motion, Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion, Mr. Jersey votes Yes.
For the reason stated of the motion Chairman Sia?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
request has been approved. Thank
You kindly and good, good evening.
Thank you. This brings us to item 11.
Item 11, applicant Thrifty florist of Warren one.
Representative Nick Nicole Agby.
Kevin description 2 9 0 1 0 Shaner
experiences requested permission
to conduct a seasonal outdoor sales operation
and a P District from March 31st, 2025
through January 31st, 2020 6, 788 square feet
to no less than 16 feet from the Shaner Road property line,
and 50 feet from the North property line per site
plan, and same as last year.
Good evening. Good evening.
Welcome Back. Uh, my name's Nicole Agby.
Uh, my address is 2 9 0 1 0 Shana Road in Warren.
And, um, as you stated for this location, we are here asking
as we do each year, um,
to conduct a seasonal outdoor sales in the P district from
March 31st, 2025 through the end
of January, 2026, which is 788 square feet,
no less than 16 feet from the Shaer Property Road
and 50 feet from the North property line per the site plan,
and the same as last year.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public course in the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair, Mr.
Jersey? Just one thing to the petitioner, um,
I know this is a, a kind of a rinse
and repeat every year, um,
but when I drove by the Shaer location,
can you please remove the signs out of the right of way?
Yeah, the, they're for the sham racks.
It's about 30 signs in your right of way, so Yeah,
Absolutely. Just other than that,
I don't know if they're
at like, at the Ryan location. Put
'em out for this week. Yeah,
I, my boss did it. I don't know.
We've never had address
I before you could address so we could not send them
Out. Absolutely. I
Appreciate that. But I don't
see anything else wrong with this. Uh,
Secretary Jersey. We forgot
to read the impact statement into the
record Mr. Lindsay pointed out. Oh,
That's right. Thank you.
Mr. Lindsay. Um, planning department, um,
after review of the request, found no issues, uh,
impacting the abutting local or general public.
Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna vote yes on this like
I did last year.
It just, thank you.
Just as a side note, I, I have a slight problem
with this just because it's temporary every year,
but then you put it up from March to the end of January.
It's like a third of the year. It,
it's more than a third of the year. Yeah.
Um, so that, I don't know.
It, you, you do a good job with it, but
We, we, the, the,
the product isn't actually sold like after Christmas.
It's kind of over. We just ask for that time
to take the brick and board down before Valentine's Day.
And depending on the snow
and the weather, sometimes we can't
always get it, you know what I mean?
When it snows and it's,
you can't like move the brick and board.
We're out there freezing. Yeah, sure.
So we ask for the end of January so
that we can like, have time.
That's understandable. Sure.
Because it goes through Christmas.
Understandable. Selling grape blankets.
Okay. If, uh, nobody else has anything else to say,
I'd like to make a motion to grant, uh,
the petitioner permission
to conduct a seasonal outdoor sales operation in a PP
district from March 31st, 2025
through January 31st, 2020 6, 788 square feet
to little less than 16 feet from the standard road property
line, and 50 feet from the north
property line per site plan.
And same as last year. Due the fact of the size
and shape of the lot, and it's not a detriment
to the area. Support.
Have a motion by Secretary of Jersey, support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the request as read
Mr. Jersey votes. Yes.
For the reason. State of the motion. Mr.
Cliff? Yes. For the
Reason stated in motion Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For
The reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion. Mr. Green? Yes. For
The reason stated in The motion.
Mr. Auvi? Yes. For reason stated in motion Mr. Perry? Yes.
For reason stated in the motion and chair Safa?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
request has been approved.
Thank you. Thank you. Stay right there.
Stay right there. Yep. Applicant Texas Item 12.
Applicant Thrifty florist. Floor number two.
Representative Nicole Agba. Kevin description, 3 0 9 7 5.
Ryan Variances requested permission
to conduct a seasonal outdoor sales operation, 20 feet
by 30 feet, 600 square feet from March 31st, 2025
through January 31st, 2026
to no less than 50 feet from the Ryan Road property line,
and 45 feet from the 13 mile property line.
Hi, my name's Nicole lbe.
My address here is 3 0 9 7 5
Ryan Road in the city of Warren.
And yes, we are asking to conduct, um,
the same outdoor seasonal sales, um, 20 feet by 30 feet,
600 square feet from the end of March 31st, 2025
through January 31st, 2026.
No less than 50 feet from the Ryan Road property line,
and 45 feet from the 13 mile property line,
and the same as last year.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I
close the public portion of the meeting.
I'll turn it over to Secretary Jersey
to read the impact statement. Um,
Impact statement is the same as the previous one.
Uh, no issues were found to impact the budding local
or general public according to the planning department.
Thank you. This is routine. Like the other one.
This is a yes. Vote for me despite the extensive timeframe.
Just out of curiosity, is there any plans
to do something with the parking lot?
I mean the, I don't know if you own the,
the building there, that parking lot is,
Um, yes. You could
Lose a small car. We
actually have, my, the owner of my company owns 16, um,
retail flower shops are all around the metro Detroit area.
Okay. And, um, parking lots and roofs
and siding has, um,
they're on like a rotating thing in the WOR two.
That's the one we're doing. They are on the list. Okay. Yes.
Good. Um, we have done little patches work,
but it's not, it's not snow.
It only few years and it doesn't seem to work.
So yes, there is an extensive, um, it it's on the list. Yes.
Okay, great. We just finished, uh, remodeling our
Royal Oak location
and did the entire parking lot in
Birmingham and in Huntington Woods.
So it's, yes, it's coming. Great.
Good to hear. Yes. We have a motion. Mr.
Chair, just, just to piggyback on
what she was talking about with the upcoming improvements
here in Warren, Steve, are they gonna need
to submit maybe a site plan to do that?
Lot of reps and things? I'm just curious.
Um, only if they're changing the elevation
of the parking lot.
Okay. Uh, if everything else is the same, they'll need a,
uh, cement permit and or building permit.
I was just gonna say they're back every year.
I think if they were gonna do something like that,
maybe they'd incorporate their outdoor sales
and not have to come here and do this every year
and just incorporate it in with the site plan.
Other organizations have done, I believe, um,
There's one tonight.
Is there another? Yeah, home Depot's gonna
do it for their outdoor store.
Okay. So there's something maybe we'll look
into as something permanent. I,
I think, I think to come every year.
I think it would benefit you guys if you did that.
It's just that that topic came up,
but it was a good chance to interject and just plant a seed.
I yield the floor unless anybody has anything else.
I'll make a motion on this.
I have a comment. There you go. Mr. Chair,
Since you opened the door on a pre, on the,
a previous item, I did talk about intent
and being good stewards
of your property if you're gonna
be a business person and warrant.
And I look at these outside
displays on a floral shop and I go to 13 and Ryan
and buy stuff all the time, but I look at
these outs, I'm pretty familiar.
So these out outside displays look pretty cool, you know,
because it's, you know what it is,
but it, it would seem to me like, for example, 13 mile,
the temp, the temporary sign.
I looked everywhere. How,
how was there a temporary sign there
If the It looked everywhere.
For what? I'm sorry. There's
A temporary sign there. It looks
like you're going to, uh, the circus.
Oh, the, The temporary sign. The
The the arrow sign or whatever Yeah. Type thing.
The big, yeah, the temporary sign.
I walked up here before she started talking
and I said, the temporary signs either need
a permit or gotta go.
So, so there, so there isn't a permit.
I, I'm not sure on that one.
I looked that, I know the little ones
that we wouldn't give a permit for 20 small signs.
So to me personally, it just doesn't,
it doesn't look good.
And the displays, I don't know anything about this stuff,
but the, I drive
around everybody does it. The cinder blocks?
Yes sir. I move them. It's not
Fun. Uh, cinder blocks are
cinder blocks.
There's gotta be items that are a little bit more, uh,
appealing aesthetically than a cinder block.
This is just, I'm not the thing I looked at.
And I, and I know we're here to approve the
outside this place, but the
dumpster is not in the enclosure.
Is it because it's too big?
The cinder, the garbage man can't get it in and out.
They, they can't, I don't know. Okay.
So that answers that question. The, the,
the enclosures this way, the dumpsters this way.
He has, he would've to actually go on like the grass.
I don't, I don't really understand.
It's never been inside there because
Does your, does your owner own the one in Ann Arbor?
Um, yes, we do. We're actually building,
I was making the road there,
building there, creating street there
Today. I was there today and
it
Oh, in Ann Arbor? Yes.
I see a consistent theme.
Yeah. We, we, um,
actually the sign actually fell off the building in Ann
Arbor in the last windstorm.
We lost the sign off the building.
They're they're doing construction.
It's like shut, shut down. I I know you don't own the
Own the, I know you're just a representative.
I'm not getting on you, but so are,
do parking lots have to be striped.
And I'm gonna go to the parking lot issue now.
'cause the parking lot is a disaster area.
And that has been for quite a while.
Yes. Parking areas have to be striped.
Okay. So that's another thing.
And last year your
outside display went
all the way across the front of the building.
And I look at the site plan, that's where
di disabled parking is.
So I don't know how how you address that,
but that was another issue.
The back of the back of the building,
there's a broken window
that's covered with a piece
of cardboard. You, you get what I'm
At 13 mile Ryan.
Yeah. Yeah.
So anyways, I will address, I just wanted to add that
and say that I'm, I'm gonna vote yes, of course,
but I want you to share that with your owner.
Right. Address the window.
You said there's a window at the back of the building
That's broke, which just that you know of the building.
It should be painted. Okay.
The back of the building's spill off.
And I'm afraid that sometimes businesses work up
to the level of the other businesses around them.
And, and I can see where that would happen, but,
and I don't, I don't want to see that.
So those, those are my comments.
Okay. Mr. Chair, Mr. Wa,
I'd just like to piggyback on Mr.
Green's issue
because we have an, we have an a DA we ordinance,
and it's one thing that the businesses need
to get their a DA parking up to compliance.
We have so many of 'em, they're out of compliance.
And if you're doing this work,
we can't have a DA parking blocked off from accessibility.
So you might want to take a look at, I mean, I'm all
for this as well,
but as we're addressing issues, I, I'd like to see that kind
of stuff, uh, be addressed so
that it doesn't become a bigger problem.
So good to hear
that you're putting money into the buildings. Thank you.
So Mr. Chair? Yes.
I just wanted to piggyback on the thing
because being based, the fact that I lived you on that side
of town, I, I'm familiar
with the location on Ryan Road very much.
Yes. But it's like,
and I would act, I mean,
I will vote to approve this tonight.
Don't worry about that. But I would like you to take back
to the owner that, you know,
the parking lot does need to be addressed.
And it's not even just your business that doesn't have
to stripe me on the parking lot.
I always say the stuff, stuff spreads
because I don't wanna go to the ace
and the plaza behind the building
that parking lot's just as awful.
And those spaces aren't striped out, you know,
by the one eyeglass place.
They, that area's, you know, nicely done up.
But the rest of that plaza is not.
So, I mean, I know that's not your property,
but that's why I say where things can spread.
You know, it's like the same problem exists at the plaza
that exists at the, at the flower shop.
So I would hope that you would take back to your owner to,
you know, maybe take a look at what
that site plan looks like.
Where are the striped parking spaces?
Where is the a DA parking?
Because you,
I you can't tell in the parking lot where the parking
Spaces are and, and make sure that when we do set up the
thing that it's not covering Yes. The spaces. Exactly.
So if you could just take that back so that way
we're not doing these same comments next year
at this time. Right.
Okay. But, uh, but I mean,
I will vote in favor of this.
Just off the top of my head.
Were there two tents set up there last year?
Um, well, three. They're 10 by 10. 600 square feet.
10 by 10. There are three. Okay. Two. And then one because
My colleague here was corrected.
Two, two and two. See the 600 square feet two. One
Of 'em was where this handicap spot was, I
Think. Pardon me?
I think one of the three tenths you had up last year
was blocking this handicap parking.
Okay. So we just wanna be cognizant of that. Okay.
For this year to not block those couple spots.
We make sure that we have that. Um, okay.
I'm sorry we beat you up so much. Let's, that's okay.
Let, we'll move on. We have a motion tonight.
Wish she had a pen.
I'll make the motion. Mr. Chair.
Okay, Mr. Cliff, go ahead.
I'd like to make the motion to grant permission
to conduct seasonal outdoor sales operation 20 foot
by 30 foot for a total of 600 square feet from
March 31st, 2025
through January 31st, 2026
to no less than 50 feet from Ryan Road Property line
and 45 feet from the 13 Mile Road property line.
Uh, due to the fact that we've approved this thing
for the last 20 years or so,
Support Super.
A motion by Mr. Cliff, support by Mr. Perry
to approve the request was read
Mr. Cliff?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsey? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Auvi? Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes.
Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Jersey votes Yes.
For the reason stated in motion. Chairman Sefa?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a good night.
Good night. This brings us to item 13. Item
13, applicant 14 mile 10 LLC, representative Eddie h Babb.
Description, 3 2 8 0 0.
Ryan Variance is requested permission to one,
conduct a temporary outdoor retail sales operation
without a permanent building.
Two, conduct a temporary outdoor sales operation in a 20
foot by 20 foot, 400 square foot tent in an area designate
for parking from 10:00 AM to 10:00 PM June 26th, 2025
through July 5th, 2025.
Good evening. Good evening.
Your name and address please? My name.
My name is Eddie Beby. 1183 Congress Drive. Troy.
Thank you. Please tell us about your request.
Yes, sir. I'm here our fourth, uh, fourth season.
We're, um, conducting the outdoor firework cells.
And, um, it's pretty much gonna be the same setup
that we did last three years.
Uh, we actually cut back a little bit on the 10th.
I think last year. We, we had requested a 20 by 30,
but we actually went down to 2020 by 20.
And I think we had, initially we had 11 days.
We went down to nine days now.
Um, uh, we pretty much, you know, stayed, uh,
in compliance with the city
and state, uh, you know, in terms of, you know,
all their regulations
and, uh, you know, uh, we've added, of course, you know,
we still have our security system.
We've, you know, the lighting, everything in the,
in the spaces is, you know, it's, it's,
it's exactly where it should be.
We don't have any issues.
We didn't have any complaints
and, uh, I think we did a pretty good job last few
years operating it. Thank you.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience who
wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I closed
the public course to the meeting.
I will turn it over to Secretary Jersey
to read the impact statement.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, from the planning department,
um, planning department reviewed the requests found no
issues found to impact the budding local or general public.
Thank you. At this time, I'll turn it over to the board
for discussion personally.
Um, they've done it before. They're back again.
I don't have a problem with it. I can live with it
for nine days. What are your thoughts?
So, Mr. Chair, um,
'cause I know I voted against this last year,
I still always have an issue that the location
of the tent abuts up to where those, whether it's condos
or whatever the residential is right behind it.
I've always had an issue that I feel it's too close.
So that's the same thing I had last year remains this year.
I, Mr. Chair, I'm kind of have
to echo the same sentiment as my colleague.
Um, pray for just a couple different reasons.
I just feel that, um, it's,
it's nothing personal against Mr.
Babb or, or how he operates his tent.
And it's been, it's been absolutely wonderful,
but I just feel like we're undercutting people in this town
that are, um, doing the right thing by having a business,
having a storefront, paying insurance year in and year out.
The one year, the one time a year that they look to try
to sell fireworks, um,
they're getting chopped at the knees a little bit
by these pop-up tents.
Um, so that, that's my concern, um, especially since we have
a new fireworks company going in at nine
and Van D**e investing in the city
trying to do the right thing.
Um, and you know, we've had, we've had
the issues have been documented, not, not with Mr BA's tent,
but with other tents in this town, um, them going over, um,
people smoking, you know, within the buffer zone.
Um, again, it's nothing with this site particular, um,
but I just see it, it's an ongoing problem.
I know we discussed last year at length about maybe trying
to get some kind of tent ordinance, um, you know,
in place in the city, you know, with, you know, thrifty
and even with, um, you know, our, um, big tents
that we have at these festivals, you know,
whether the Lions Club, um, St.
Ann's, uh, any of these other, um, venues, um,
we gotta have some kind of criteria to, to work off of.
And I'm, I'm not so sure that the water barrel situ, the,
the water barrel scenario is, is, is a,
is a good situation anymore.
You know, I do, I do events where, um,
everything's anchored down with a cement block.
There's, there's cement blocks on either corner
that they'll ensure, you know, any kind of, um, any kind of,
um, collapse of the tent.
Um, so that's, that's my position.
Unfortunately, as long as I'll be on this board,
that's probably gonna remain my position
unless something changes within the ordinances, um, um, that
to, to state.
Otherwise, other than that, I'll yield the floor.
If I, if I may, um, I know we, you know,
this came up last year too,
and I know that was one of your concerns.
And, uh, the, the thing is, you know,
you know the 400 foot restriction, whether you're,
whether you take that, the fireworks
and you put 'em inside of a building, which is actually,
I think, outdoor safer than indoor personally,
if something happens mm-hmm.
It's more dangerous to have it indoor than have it,
than actually having an outdoor is much safer.
The other thing is we have to comply with a 400 foot rule.
There's nobody fireworks.
I mean, there's homes that are blowing up,
fireworks right next to each other.
I, so for me to have that rule,
and we're enforcing it, we have security, we have cameras,
we have everything, and, you know, and,
and it's just something that we do.
I, I do this with my kids every year.
Uh, just, it's something patriotic
that we've done every year.
And it's something, you know, I just, it, it's,
it's just something I love to do when I was a kid doing
it until now.
But if some of the concern is the block
and stuff like that, I, I've had storms, you know,
when we had it up, you know, where it,
it, it never even moved.
I mean, the water is, I think it's very secure.
I mean, you're talking about water's fell to the top.
Mm-hmm. It's wastes, I dunno how many,
how many gallons I forgot how many gallons.
There're, you know, they're the tall ones
and we have them in five locations.
And we also have, um, approximately 10 feet
to 12 feet away from the tent so that, you know,
nobody just, you know, we have it in a
secure area right now.
Right now it's kind of secluded in that area.
If we were to move it, say in the middle
or somewhere, it would interfere more with, with, you know,
people drive, driving back
and forth, it would be even worse.
So where we have it right now, it's, it's, it's,
Well that's not, that's not the question of the, you know,
that's not my question about, oh, okay.
You location then, you know, I understand you, you know,
the, the, the premises
and the, the, the box
that you're kinda dealt with over there.
Yeah. So, but I'm just stating my position.
It's nothing personal.
It's, it's just, um, I just think it's time for us
to address this, um, some, some way, shape or form.
Um, and until we do so as a city, um, I'm,
I'm gonna unfortunately be a no vote every year.
So I apologize, sir, but I, I wish you luck.
But, um, that's, that's my position. I'll yield the floor.
Any other comments from the board?
I can respect Mr. Jersey's position. Uh, I disagree.
I, it's, I'm not a huge fan of tents popping up,
but for nine days I think I could, I could
tolerate it and he has a good history.
Any other comments from the board? Motions.
Motion to approve. Is that how we make the decision?
You can make a Motion to approve.
You can read the requested variances, read item one
and two and then give your reasons why.
Uh, variance requested, uh, motion to approve, to con
to conduct a temporary outdoor retail sales operation
without a permanent building
and conduct a temporary outdoor sale operation in a 20
by 4,800 square foot tent
with a 10 foot buffer around the tent.
And an area designed designated for parking from 9:00 AM
to 10:00 PM June 15th, 2025
through July 5th, 2025. How was that? I'd
Like to amend, amend that.
I think you said nine and it says 10.
Where was 10:00 AM 10:00 AM
to 10:00 PM I think you said 9:00 AM
It does say it does say 9:00 AM
Are you reading from the agenda or the,
I I'm reading from, I don't know what that's teenth.
So which one is it?
Yeah, it's 10. 10 to 10. 10 10. 10 to 10.
You guys are killing me, man.
Legalities. The reasons why
I gotta do more. Why did
I even make a motion?
What I, what else do I have to do?
The size and shape of the lot. Is it the neighborhood?
Do you have, think of reasons why you
Oh boy. I get
in over my damn head here. Uh, reasons why.
Because it sounds cool.
You know, someone help me out here. Some,
A little bit more than that.
Maybe it's not a detriment to the area.
It's not a detriment to the area. Okay, there we go.
Do we have a support? Support?
We have a motion by Mr. Green. Support by Mr.
Assessor to approve the request as written in the agenda.
Mr. Green? Yes, it's the motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. Friends? Reeds stated in the motion.
Uh, Mr. Watts? Yes.
Mr. Clifft? No.
I believe there are detriment to the area.
Mr. Lindsey? Uh,
No. I believe it's a detriment
to the area in itself imposed
Mr. Perry?
No, I agree. Uh, it's a detriment to the area.
Mr. Kovich? I am voting, no.
I think it is a detriment to the area.
Mr. Jersey votes? No.
I believe it's a detriment to the area as well.
And Chairman sfa?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion?
Yeah. Five to five? No. Four. Four? Yes.
Okay. Regrettably, the item has been denied.
Thank you. Thank you.
This brings us to item 14.
Item 14, applicant family Fund fireworks, Michael Ackery
and Jenna Nola, representative Karen Birdie.
Description, 2 6 800 Dender variance.
Requested permission to one,
conduct a temporary outdoor retail sales operation
without a permanent building.
Two. Conduct a temporary outdoor sales operation in a 20
foot by 40 foot, 800 square foot.
10 with a 10 foot buffer
around the tent in an area de designated
for parking from 9:00 AM to 10:00 PM June 15th, 2025
through July 5th, 2025.
Good evening. Good evening, Karen Birdie.
2 8 2 2 5 Mound Road, Warren, Michigan.
Um, I'm here tonight for family fun fireworks.
My colorful client and his daughter are not here.
He's actually in the hospital and she's with him.
Um, with regard to this item, this is the same item
that my client has had approved
for probably the last 20 years.
Um, he has done so successfully without,
um, issue with the state.
Um, his record is excellent with the state.
I do understand what Mr.
Jersey's saying about the idea
that you wanna support local businesses
and having these tents,
but I will say that
that's a different situation when it comes to fireworks.
And this is why if you own a fireworks company
and you own it, um, uh, brick
and mortar number one,
the state has determined when fireworks can be used.
And if you look at that list,
it's probably like a handful of dates.
You cannot light off fireworks whenever you want.
It's just that simple. To maintain a brick
and mortar for fireworks is not easy
because you've got New Years, you've got, um,
uh, 4th of July, you've got the Patriot,
but it's not something that can be consumed on any Tuesday.
Um, in addition to that,
when you have these companies open these tents in these
different cities, they have been through extensive training.
You don't want just anybody opening these tents.
You want the same people
that you've seen successfully doing it, doing that.
The NFPA has a book just about fireworks
that the state has adopted.
And I will tell you, uh,
had I known I I would've brought it here tonight.
The rules and the procedures that have to be followed to
successfully conduct a fireworks sale
and do it in full compliance
with the law is not an easy thing.
So you don't want the seven 11 guy
opening a fireworks tent.
You don't want the, uh, nickel and dime store,
or now it's the dollar 25 store.
You don't want the dollar store opening these tents.
You want the people who have the
experience and the expertise.
The second thing is, um, I was involved, uh, many years ago
with one of the first lawsuits, um, in Macomb County.
Um, it was with East Point with regard to tents.
And a gentleman came from the NFPA
and he testified, I don't remember his name now,
but he testified that he thinks that it's safer to have
fireworks in tents because you can escape.
It is easy to escape from a tent.
It is not always easy to escape from a building.
So it was his testimony in, in his opinion,
that tents are the safer way to do, um,
fireworks than a brick and mortar.
But in any event, we're asking for permission to, um,
have this on, uh, Quinter, um, the same location
that he's been doing for years.
Um, and if you have any questions, I'm, I'm available.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I'll close
the public portion of the meeting.
I'll turn it over to Secretary Jersey
to read the planning impact statement.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, according
to the planning department, I have to review of the request.
No issues were found to impact the
budding local or general public.
Thank you. I'll turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair. Mr. Mr.
So, uh, um, this location is
around the corner from my house.
I'm the petitioner,
has always done a good job at that location.
In terms of the tent of, do, do we know when
that grocery store's opening up that's
Being, oh no. I don't know.
Oh, okay. Just wondering. I dunno.
'cause you know, I know like it in the past, like,
especially now if there's very little traffic going on in
that strip mall, because most of it's vacant,
but I know that that grocery, the four big lots Yes.
Is being turned into a grocery store.
I'm just wondering when that was.
If that's when that's opening in the traffic that,
that might be generating into that parking lot.
But, um, you know, not a big fan of firework tents,
but this one, I mean,
they've done a good job at this location
though, that parking lot. My comments,
I echo the same, uh, sentiment.
I know how Mr. Jersey will probably be
voting, uh, respectfully.
I, I wanna just agree with Mr. Neitz.
I think they've done a good job over the years.
It's a perfect location actually for a tent, given
that the grocery store is not, um, operational right now.
And I have a hard time denying something when the
planning department issues their
impact statement and agreement.
Are there other comments from the board tonight?
Mr. Chair? I, I'd like
to make a motion if there's no other comments,
Please do Our action.
Motion to approve the petitioner's request
to conduct temporary outdoor retail sales
without a permanent building.
And two, to conduct temporary outdoor sales operations in a
20 by 40 foot tent with a 10 foot buffer around the tent
and an area designated for parking from 9:00 AM
to 10:00 PM June 15th through July 5th, 2025.
Reasons being, uh, the size and shape of the lot.
'cause it's such a large parking lot
that this is going into, uh, not a detriment
to the neighborhood as this area also is remote enough where
there's no residence and such.
Thank you. We have a motion by Mr.
Neitz to approve second by Mr. Perry for the reason.
Stated or
Call Mr. Vic
A yes for the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason stated in a motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason
Stated in the Motion.
Mr. Lindsey? No,
I think it's a detriment to area.
Mr. Cliff? No.
I believe there are a detriment to that area.
Mr. Watts? Yes.
Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion,
Mr. Jersey votes? No.
I believe it's a detriment
to the area Chairman Safa?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the
motion, I believe it was approved.
Yep, Your item was approved. Thank you. Thank you.
Takes this to item 15. Item 15. Item 15.
Applicant Family Fund fireworks,
Michael Kanari and John Noli.
Representative Karen Birdie, common description,
3 0 8 0 0 Hoover arranged, requested permission to one,
conduct a temporary outdoor retail sales
operation without a permanent building.
Two. Conduct a temporary outdoor sales operation at a 20
foot by 50 foot, 1000 square foot tent with a 10 foot buffer
around the tent in an area designated
for parking from 9:00 AM to 10:00 PM June 15th, 2025
through July 5th, 2025.
Good evening. Good evening, Karen Birdie.
2 8 2 2 5 Mound Road.
Uh, this too is a site that family Fireworks has had, um,
for years and years.
He operates this site in full compliance with the state
and with all the rules and regulations.
Um, he has not been cited
or had difficulty at all, um,
with state enforcement or the city.
We ask that you would approve it again this year.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I closed
the public portion of the meeting.
I'll turn it over to Secretary Jersey
to read the planning statement.
Thanks Mr. Chair. Same thing as the last one.
Um, after review of the request, no issues are found
to impact the budding local or general public.
Thank you. Any additional
comments from the board on this one?
Looks like the same request, just a different location.
They have a long history at that site.
Mr. Chair. Mr. Sitz?
Um, the petition does have a long history at that site.
Um, I'm not as familiar as going to see
how their operations are as I am at the de er one.
Uh, so I can't, but, uh, I, I, I,
I make a motion to approve the petitioner's request
for reasons being size and shape of the lot
and not detriment to the neighborhood.
Uh, I, I'm sorry. I make motion to approve.
To conduct a temporary outdoor retail sales operation
without a permanent building in two.
To conduct temporary outdoor sales operation in a 20
by 50 foot tent with a 10 foot buffer around the tent
in an area designated for parking from 9:00 AM
to 10:00 PM June 15th, 2025 through July 5th, 2025.
Reasons being s size and shape of the law
and not detriment to the neighborhood. Support.
Have a motion by Mr. Sorowitz.
Support by Mr. Perry to approve. The request is read.
Mr. Svi Yes. For reason stated in motion
Mr. Perry? Yes. For
Any stated in a Motion?
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? No,
I think it's a detriment to the area.
Mr. Clifft? Nope. I believe it's a detriment to the area.
Mr. Watts? Yes. Mr. Assessor?
He Yes. For the reasons stated in the
Motion, Mr. Jersey votes?
No. I believe it's a detriment
to the area Chairman sfa? Yes. For
The reason stated in the motion,
say your request has been approved.
Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna
Grab my file.
Okay, this brings us to
Item 16, applicant l Shaha Palace
or Representative Karen Birdie.
Common description. 4 2 3 5 12 mile
variance Has requested permission to one, allow a restaurant
and a C one to operate two private banquet rooms.
That's a use. Two.
Allow all maneuvering lanes to remain 20 feet,
10 inches wide or greater.
Three, allow all parking spaces
to remain 18 feet long or greater.
Hello again. Good evening, Karen Birdie.
My address is 2 8 2 2 5 Mound Road in Warren, Michigan.
Tonight I'm representing Als Shahi Palace Restaurant.
An Indian cuisine restaurant that seeks a, uh, variance
to have two private, um, uh, party rooms.
Um, and, uh, some things dealing with the parking.
I'd like to deal first with, um, the idea that, um,
it's called we have to ask for permission
to have banquet rooms.
I do wanna point out that the history in the city
of Warren has been that if you had a restaurant,
you could have as an accessory use private rooms.
Okay? They would never had to be approved as a banquet room.
Perfect example of that is the simple pallet.
Uh, used to be giuliano's over on Van D**e.
They don't have permission as a banquet room.
They can turn half their restaurant into banquets.
And I believe that they should be able to
because the fire marshal limits you to the number of people,
and that's the number of people allowed.
And you can't exceed that number.
Um, in this case though, um, uh, we're here
because, uh, we were instructed that we had to, um,
uh, get qualified as a banquet, uh, banquet rooms.
I do wanna point out that this restaurant serves no
alcohol at all whatsoever.
There's a large ba uh, uh, room, private room,
2,927 square feet
and a small room, 1,251 square feet.
The reason he has these rooms is because
after the pandemic, his location is at 12 and Ryan,
and it's the old Chinese buffet, if anybody remembers that.
And that restaurant was pretty big, had the buffet.
And when they closed in the pandemic, um,
my client looked at that place
to have his Indian restaurant.
He didn't want that restaurant as big as it is.
He felt that it was too big for what he for starting out.
But to divide that space, the kitchen spans the back.
You can't divide the kitchen.
And the bathrooms obviously, um, uh,
were in one location and not, not in both.
The landlord said to him, take the space,
take the space, use it the best you can.
'cause at that point, if you recall,
it wasn't very easy getting tenants in, um,
these shopping centers.
It still isn't all that easy.
But in any event, he took the space
and he made these two private rooms,
and the rooms take up 20, 28%
of his total square footage.
So basically a quarter of his square footage
is both these rooms.
Currently, the private rooms provide less than 10%
of the restaurant's revenue.
And I point that out
because there's a business on Van D**e, um,
just north of 13 Mile.
And it was, uh, called the, it's called the Royal Palace.
And they were able to get a certificate of compliance
when they signed a paper stating
business operation expected to be 70% restaurant,
30% banquet facility.
If the banquet facility becomes greater than 30%,
the restaurant will reapply for their CFC.
We're at 10%, um,
revenue from those uh, rooms.
And we've asked the city if we could do
a sign document the same way the Royal Palace did.
And we were told no, we had to get approval
for these as banquet rooms.
I asked, even though we don't have alcohol,
we don't serve any alcohol.
And I was told, yes, I had to get approval, uh, for them.
So that's why we're here tonight.
Um, we have been to planning, uh,
planning approves makes a recommendation to council as
to whether or not banquet rooms should be allowed.
Planning commission has made a
recommendation to approve this.
We then go to council.
The reason we're here tonight is
because having banquet rooms in the C one
needs a variance.
Um, again, it deals with what's the difference between C one
and C two and why do we have those differences?
And so we're asking for, uh, this body's approval to be able
to have the restaurant have these private rooms
with no alcohol in a C one.
Um, so that we can go to council
and present to them the private rooms
and, um, seek their approval.
So that's one of the variances.
The other variances deal with the, um,
parking space spaces and the parking lanes.
This is kind of unique.
This shopping center,
this is 12 Mile obviously.
This is Ryan. This is the property
line for this center.
And then here's the line over here for this center.
So many centers aren't split like this.
And so that's what somewhat makes this unique.
So the lanes that are smaller than normally would be
provided is over here.
And we can actually move this parking this way
and we can have proper,
proper dimensions for our lanes.
But we were asked not to move those lanes
because if we move those lanes, it then causes
where you have to jog when you drive in.
They wanna keep this lane open from the driveway
between the two, um, properties.
So many of the issues
of asking for the variances with regard to the parking is
to keep the flow on the property, um,
consistent as presented.
Because if we solve our lane problem here
and move this parking over,
then the traffic has to jog around.
And that's not what planning, um, wants us to do.
With regard to the parking spaces that are 18
and 19 feet, many of them are
what abut the property lines.
The ones in the middle here.
Um, they can, they measure out.
It's these parking spots along the border.
And this parking has been in effect
for quite some time.
Um, we had a very old cross access easement
parking agreement between the two entities
and we've updated that agreement now.
So that agreement is now updated
and it doesn't have an end date.
So the cross access parking
and the cooperation with regard to parking is now in place.
So I'd ask for your approval as to those items.
Thank you for those. Thank you for those comments.
This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I
close the public portion of the meeting.
I'll turn it over to Secretary Jersey to read the
planning impact statement.
Mr. Chair.
16.
So, um, according to the planning department,
after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local or general public.
Um, there's also a,
Um, A letter it looks like from a John
and Patricia Simon,
who live at 2 9 0 0 9 Van Lawn Drive and warn.
Um, we're ready to express our concern
regarding special land use
for the El Shahi Palace restaurant
with banquet facilities located at 4 2 5 3 12 mile.
We live at 29 0 0 9 Van Lawn Drive,
which is located on 12 mile next
to the parking lot of this location.
We are strongly opposed to
allowing banquet services at
this location for the following reasons.
12 Mile and Ryan is already one
of the most dangerous intersections of Warren.
There are multiple bus businesses
and side streets that intersect near there,
which causes a lot of accidents.
Banquet services would increase the amount
of traffic accidents
and injuries at this already dangerous location.
Two, the parking lot is not equipped to handle parking
for banquet services, which may result in lost customers
business and profitability
of other businesses in that complex.
Three banquet services will create noise
and disruptions in our neighborhood
during evening and late night hours.
And four banquet services will increase the opportunities
for loitering, drug
and alcohol use, violent crimes, et cetera, in
and around our neighborhood to protect our neighborhood.
We ask the plan, commission, deny this request
and keep our neighborhood safe.
Sincerely, John and Patricia Simon,
Thank you. At this
time I'll turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair. Mr. I've
Got a few comments regarding this property.
F first of all, I,
I remember I've eaten when it was a Chinese buffet before
and I even remember back then
that Chinese buffet had a private dining area of, you know,
a private room that,
and that was not considered as a banquet all
but they did have a private room for that.
People would rent for parties, functions and parties.
So it's like that kind of use has actually always existed in
that property as far as I'm concerned.
Um, so I don't see any issues approving
that portion of the approval.
The second part regarding the parking, I mean,
I remember way back when this was all one part,
one lot originally when there was a grocery store there.
That's great Scotch. Great scotch. Yes, I know.
So the thing is, is that I, and
but when they subdivided it, that caused all the kind
of issues of how we subdivide.
'cause I remember when we had to prove the sign
because the tenants of the one plaza,
their sign is in the part of the lock that
is now part of this building.
And it was all that approvals we have to get
for offsite signage.
So I do agree you don't wanna move those parking spaces
that are on that lane when people drive in.
You wanna keep that lane straight.
It has always been like that for as long as I can remember.
And so therefore it's actually, in my opinion,
just approving something that has existed
and functions as is.
So I'm pursuing in favor
of all the variances requested on this petition.
Thank you. I echo the same, uh, comments.
I, I go to, into that plaza all the time, not
as much now without CVS or the bank,
but there's never been a, a problem with traffic in
that parking lot or how the spaces are aligned.
And I, I would not like to see,
see the parking plan modified,
Uh, Mr. Chair,
Secretary Jersey. So, so
to, to Ms. Birdie.
So off the site plan, total spaces on that property,
if I'm reading it correctly, is 230, 231 is it?
Or is it, um,
is it the 151?
The parking calculations?
So
I didn't know 231 spaces are
provided on the whole lot.
So that would be all the way to Ryan? Yes, yes. Okay.
So that's not just the, so no, so when I, I went over there,
I counted out somewhere around 162 spots, somewhere in
that range for that portion of the lot
That, that may be accurate. Yeah.
Somewhere, give or take maybe me miscounting.
'cause I'm not great at math, but
Right. So I
Think, um, so maybe off a couple spots,
but the point being, point being ma'am, uh, you know,
it said the location would take up like 67 spots
with the banquet between the banquet
hall and the restaurant.
Um, my concern is too, you still have one business in
that location, I believe that's vacant.
Um, where the old CVS is, if I'm correct, you know,
you have Ross and then you have Right, the restaurant.
So my concern is we're, we're almost
because of the parking situation there
and the way that that building's configured
that we're gonna run into a parking situation at some point.
Like we're over expanding the property.
I mean, if we move in somebody into that CVS building,
you know, what, what becomes
of the parking situation at that point?
I mean, so that's, that's my concern.
Um, you know, going forward, just the congestion
that would create in that lot.
Okay, so for each use that's there, for example,
with a restaurant, it's one space per
200 square feet, right?
Right. And so we needed 53 spots.
The, uh, banquet center,
because that's what they're calling it, the private rooms
add 14 spaces Ross has, is, is required
to have 36 spaces.
And the only, I have to tell you, like CVS, we can just say
what was there was requiring 39 spaces.
So that was 142 spaces total,
including CVS.
I'm not leaving CVS out. Right. Including CVS.
And we have 1 51. So 1 51. So we're over our parking.
But then when you add the cross access easement,
we're way over way over on parking.
But then you're impeding on those other businesses and the
Other, well, not impeding.
We have an agreement. No, no,
we're not taking and using what we
Should, should Oh, so that's where that
agreement comes in. So yes. Okay.
Yes. This is, there existed since they split it,
a cross access parking agreement,
that agreement has been successfully working at this site.
It had run out, it had had a sunset date in it.
Planning department required me to get
an updated one and I did.
And so that cross access parking agreement doesn't have a
sunset date in it, the one that's in existence now.
And it's both parties
and they're all cooperating with the parking.
So in essence, if we get to a point
where we're over 2 31, you're right,
then somebody's gonna have to say, no, you can't go in there
or this isn't gonna work.
But we're far, we're like 80 spaces over right now.
Um, what would be the hours of operation of the,
um, the banquet center?
Same as the restaurant, but 1130.
11:30 AM till 10:00 PM 11:30 AM
To 10 30.
Alright, Ms.
Birdie, if I may, the cross access agreement,
as the name implies, it works both
ways. Correct? That people
Works, works both ways.
Okay. So it's really a wash
because they'll park some on our side, they, and vice versa.
But it is a kind of a compatible use that the building next
to the proposed banquet center is a school
and the school's gonna have hours that's probably end.
Well, I represented them. Let me, let me explain.
I represented them. They do all raw school like it's, um,
to become an aide at a doctor's office to be a pH
the person who takes blood.
Yeah. Um, these types of different things.
A hundred percent homeschooled.
What happens on Thursday
and Friday are the only, I I think it's, yeah, just Thursday
and Friday are the only days during the day
where they do their practicals practicing taking blood,
demonstrating that they know how to chart a chart.
It's where they show to the teacher their practical aspect
of what they're studying those hours.
And I think they're outta there by, uh, it's Friday morning
and they're out by Friday afternoon.
That place is literally only used two days a week.
I've, I've never, I drive by
that on 12 mile there three, four times a day.
I've never noticed any significant number of cars parked,
especially with CVS. Gone.
Mr. Chair, if I could just add their cross
access for parking does work very well
because I can tell you many times where I've gone
to the subway there, I never parked at the spots
that are labeled a subway.
I always parked, you know, across from the entrance
into spaces there are for this location
because it was more convenient.
So I mean, people that go there do park, um,
you know, it goes both ways.
And it has worked. I've never seen that plaza since.
I also used to go to that CVS also
that everything's always worked very well in that location.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Green.
So Ms. Birdie, there's a similar
situation pretty close to there.
And my concern is,
and maybe you can make us feel comfortable with this, is
that the banquet centers don't become private club rooms.
Oops.
He's, Do you understand what I'm saying?
Yes. And to be honest with you,
this isn't a situation where there's alcohol
and they're having big
weddings and things along those lines.
These are like, uh, birthday parties and thi and,
and remember no alcohol,
there's no alcohol permit there, there's none. Well,
In the situation I'm talking about,
they actually bring their own. So,
Okay. Well you can't,
this is a restaurant.
You can't bring your alcohol here. I get it.
You, that's not allowed. He can't have that on the property.
Um, he's in the restaurant business. He's not in the,
That answers my question.
Yeah. Thank you.
Any other comments or motions from the board?
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion.
Please do. I'd like to grant permission to, number one,
allow a restaurant and a C one
to operate two private banquet rooms.
That's a use variance.
Two, allow all maneuvering lanes to remain 20 feet,
10 inches wide or greater.
Number three, allow all parking spaces
to remain 18 foot long or greater.
Due to the fact that size of shape of the lot.
They've got a great cross reference parking
agreement going on there.
And I don't think it's a detriment to the area support.
Have a motion by Mr. Cliff. Support by Mr.
Neitz to approve the request is read.
Mr. Cliff? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr.
Starch Yes. For reason stated in the motion
Mr. Lindsay Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For The reason stated in the
Motion. Mr. Green?
Yes. For The reasons stated in
The motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes. Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion, Mr. Jersey votes Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion. Chairman Sefa?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion,
the request has been approved.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a good
Evening.
This brings us to item
17. Item
17. Applicant Home Depot Representative Caleb's
GRA sth, sorry, common description.
2 5 8 7 9 Hoover for answers, request of permission to one,
allow 1,167 square feet
of permanent outdoor storage in a P district
to allow 9,770 square feet
of permanent outdoor storage in a C two district for a total
of 10,937 square feet of permanent outdoor storage.
Good evening. Good evening.
Uh, my name's Mackenzie Chaga Fox. I am from Kimley Horn.
I'm standing in for Caleb tonight.
Um, I'm at live at 2 9 3 9 8 Spoon Avenue in Madison Heights
and I'm representing Home Depot tonight.
And their request for the variance
for the permanent outdoor storage on the west
and north side of their existing building.
Um, I know that this has come through a couple of different,
or at least one time in the past as
temporary storage in these areas
and we are now requesting
that they become permanent outdoor storage.
Thank you for, thank you for those comments.
This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close
the public portion of the meeting.
I'll have Mr. Jersey read the planning
impact statement into the record.
Thank you Mr. Chair. Um, plan, um,
after review of the request of filing issues were found
to impact the abutting local
or general public, the planning staff recommends
that this variance request be
tabled for the following reasons.
On December 4th, 2023, the petitioner was granted approval
of a minor amendment to the site plan to allocate space
for outdoor storage, outdoor sales and parking spaces.
Multiple areas on the site
that the petitioner is seeking a variance
for permanent outdoor storage was approved
by the planning commission for seasonal outdoor storage.
More specifically, one seasonal outdoor storage areas
located in L shape are indicated abutting the east
and north elevations of the northeast corner
of the building Home Depot Garden Center.
These two areas will both contain pallets.
Two deep eight feet, eight foot pallet
by two foot in height, 2,106 square feet each.
This area is indicated in purple on the site.
Plan two seasonal outdoor storage in an area measuring
approximately 82 feet by 22 feet
and containing 1,743 square feet would be
provided along the north elevation of the building
and contain pads to store grills from April to August.
This area is indicated in blue on the site plan.
The above-mentioned locations
that the petitioner is requesting a variance
for permanent outdoor storage were approved
by the planning commission as seasonal outdoor storage
approval of a revised minor amendment to the site plan
through the planning commission shall be required
to change the proposed seasonal outdoor storage
to permanent outdoor storage.
Therefore, the planning department recommends this variance
request be tabled so that the petitioner can submit
for a revised minor amendment to the site plan
to seek approval for the change.
In the above mentioned locations from seasonal outdoor
storage to permanent outdoor storage is
with this observation that I provide my opinion.
Thank you. At this time I'll turn it over
to the board for discussion.
We heard the planning impact statement personally,
like we've, like the board has indicated at previous
requests for, uh, outdoor storage.
Uh, I'm not in favor of permanent outdoor storage just
because we lose control over the
site and what could be out there.
Um, are there other comments? Yeah, Mr.
Chair, um, real quick, um, I I, I'm, I also echo
that same sentiment.
It seems like this, this site, um,
even when we grant the seasonal outdoor storage, um,
last year, it seemed to have gotten a little bit outta hand.
Um, I didn't really look at the site plan based off of
where things were located, but it seemed like there was
product all over that property.
Um, the sheds were all over, you know, I mean the,
the property line they had pro they had product
on the backside of the building.
Um, it, it just seemed to be a constant mess.
And to make that a permanent situation,
I'm not in favor of it all.
Um, so I, I would actually echo the sentiments of the
planning department on this
and actually move to this maybe table till April,
April 23rd meeting.
I do just have a, that Would be my recommendation.
I do have a question for the petitioner.
I, I see the correct site plan,
but the cover letter on it says City of Fenton.
I think it's just a mistake,
but I want to verify
that the information on your cover letter attached
to the site plan is correct
that it's for the city of Warren.
It, it is for the city of Warren.
Um, I don't have the cover letter with me.
My partner Katie, um, only provided me the site plan.
So I don't have a way to double check that.
I know she is working with the city
of Fenton at the same time.
Okay. Um, but the numbers I have
on my table on my site plan do match the numbers
requested in the meeting agenda.
Yeah, I see on the large site plan here that's folded up.
It is, uh, the correct plan.
I just didn't know if the numbers on the cover letter were
correct, but it sounds like this is gonna get tabled
anyway though.
You'll have time to double check
Mr. Chair. I wanna
also add to add to that,
that seems like the last two or three years they've come
before us, that information's been amiss.
Um, there been things missing, there's been things off.
And for a professional organization such as Home Depot,
it just seems extremely unprofessional last couple years.
Um, and trying to basically try
to get permanent outdoor storage at all costs.
'cause I think it was the same issue last year they came,
went and permanent outdoor storage as well.
So, um, I don't really know what's going on with over there
with them, but it just seems like the last couple years it's
just been, we're kind of bumping our heads here, um,
and unnecessarily.
So that's all I want to add.
Excuse me, could I, um, I, my name's Diane Kuski.
I live at seven six five six
Charlesworth in Dearborn Heights.
I'm the store manager of the location.
Um, the outdoor sheds have been removed.
The, there's only two outdoor sheds now.
And the reason why we had them removed was
because people were breaking into them.
We felt it was a public safety issue.
The, the neighbors were complaining.
Um, we kept trying to lock them up and people would break in
and use them on the weekends and we, we were not there.
So we are down to just two outdoor sheds for that reason.
Um, we couldn't keep control over it.
We couldn't keep them locked.
Um, then that add adds to another question.
How are you gonna keep control of over permanent storage
of product outside your building without it
Walking away? What we are
also, what we're also doing is asking the
company not to force product to us that we cannot hold.
We are asking for more control on our side
as a store level in what we can hold as we sell through.
Uh, we ha we were having issues
with the company just pushing trucks to us
and we weren't able con to control the amount of stock.
So we are really pushing back
and the company is listening to us.
We have not received one, a fraction of
what my sister stores around me are receiving
because I know that, um, until April hits,
I have no control over where I can store this merchandise.
So we have asked for more control from the company
on our end to be able to release pos on what I feel
as a store manager, I can take and hold
and rotate through my stock in years past, as soon
as a certain date hits the company would just start pushing
mulch and mulch and mulch.
And if you've noticed, we have nothing on the
outside on the side of the building yet.
I have nothing in the parking lot
and nothing on the apron that I can't control.
There are other things, um, from the company
that we've pushed back that as a total company program.
We've gone back and said we can't do this, we can't do this
and we can't do this because it would push us too
far off the apron.
So we have asked for more control from the company.
My district manager is supporting this
and our regional manager is supporting this
and allowing us to tell the company
what I can handle rather than just shipping truck
after truck after truck.
And I have no control over it.
Thank you for those comments.
I, I've taken much more control over the, um, cleanliness
of the outside building and making sure
that it's presentable to the neighbors.
Thank you. Thank you.
I yield the floor.
I'm glad to hear that product's not being
pushed to the store as much.
It's a step in the right direction. Mr. Eron, did you
As a zoning inspector, I'm happy to hear that as well
because last year, last couple years, it,
it has gotten outta control.
Um, that would be another reason for it to go back
to planning to find out exactly what they want,
where they want it, and go from there.
And maybe to segregate, which is temporary,
which is permanent and go from there on
The site plan. On the site
plan. Okay. And get that set. So hope
To make It, which would probably take more
than a month to do so.
Okay. So maybe we should table it till May.
Well got a question, Mr.
Chair, because, um, by tabling it
and if it could take some time, my concern is, is the need
for the store will be before then to use this space.
Is there a way of like approving something as a temporary?
Basically if they have the application in
and everything else, we basically do a stay.
We don't do enforcement on it.
Um, unless it gets outta control.
If it gets outta control in excess of what they have here,
we definitely would do enforcement.
Um, but we wouldn't basically enforce it
if they're running in normal course
and if they cut back on product,
I don't think we would do enforcement on that at all.
So, so basically then if we did cable it till May
to give it time for,
To go through planning, it would still be In
the process. They could use
the property
and then we'd actually be able to see
how it's being used at that time too.
Because if, uh, we see it
And Okay.
And luckily Mr. Waer pump won't have
to confiscate the mulch.
Yes.
Well, and the other, the other thing is, um,
the company has bought me additional racking on the inside
of my yard so that I can hold more product inside.
Okay. I mean they, they've understood that
I have a neighborhood, I wanna be a nice neighbor.
I want to be a, a very nice sight line.
That's why I'm out there all the time looking at trash.
I have people, I have my lot guys going
around every day picking up the trash along the road.
Um, we understand we need to be good neighbors.
Um, if we can control the product that's coming in,
I think you'll see a vast improvement.
Great. Good to hear. Thank you.
Do we have a motion to table Mr i, motion to table till may.
A motion by Mr. Assessor to table until May. May.
What's the date there?
For the date? Go, May 14th.
May 14th second or support supported by Mr. Cliff.
All in favor? Aye. This item has been tabled till May 14th.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll see you then.
This brings us to item 18.
Item 18. Applicant Paul Borg,
representative Franco Mancini.
Common description 2 1 5 5 0.
Ryan branches requested permission
to one wave required eight foot wide green belts along the
north, south and east property lines that are, that
abut R one C
and R one P zoning districts to install nine foot
three panel metal privacy fencing along the
east property line.
Good evening. Good evening.
Uh, Franco Mancini on behalf of Paul Borg.
Address 5 3 2 0 0 Van D**e Avenue,
suite 200 Shelby Township.
As you see in front of you, you have, uh, the package of
the fence that we are proposing to install for a proper,
I guess full screening, not a cyclone fence.
The reason we're here this evening is, uh, the petitioner
attend attempted to, uh, get a permit
for an eight foot cyclone fence,
but was denied that the building department
because eight foot fences aren't allowed in that zoning
and a six foot loud is only allowed in the zoning.
During that time back in 2019, uh,
the eight foot cyclone fence was approved, um,
but was not installed.
The landscaping for, uh, the front and tree set setups
and sprinklers were and the were maintained
and installed previously on the conditions
of that site plan.
Um, along with a permitted salt dome that was installed, um,
over the last few years.
Uh, we're here this evening to, uh, ask for
a little bit of guidance, either in a six foot fence
that you see here, uh, that it's in your packet
that's a full screening or a six foot cyclone fence,
or go back to the eight foot fence
that was previously approved.
Um, so we can install that in the buffer zone in the rear of
that parking lot.
The other variance that we're requesting for the north
and south sides of the industrial area, um,
of the two existing neighbors, um, there
was discovered back in 2019 that part
of those properties are in a residential zoning,
even though they are used in masterplan
or master used in an industrial fashion,
both north and south.
Um, the same owner of both the North property
and through the south property have a, I guess a multiple
zoning use on their existing properties.
Um, Mr Board's property is zoned in the, the
accepted zoning of the master plan.
Those properties probably was an oversight
or maybe a change in the master plan over the years.
Um, so the reason we're grant asking for that variance is,
is the same users, uh, industrial use as Mr.
Borg of the North and the South
are maintaining their grounds in that same fashion.
And that's why the screening, um, was requested
to be waived on that section
'cause it's gonna be green belt for an industrial user.
So to say. For the neighbor, uh,
that we're proposing to do this, uh, fence, um,
we think it'd be a benefit.
So it'd be a solid screening versus a cyclone fence
screening with landscape.
So there would be no protrusions of visibility.
It would help with sound, it would help with a more
pleasant, uh, viewing, uh, for the neighbor
and a little bit of more privacy on his behalf.
So he's not as disturbed as he is right now.
I'm here for any questions
or any guidance that you can provide
for this evening. Thank you.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Sir, you can approach.
We'll read too.
Please start with your name and address. Uh,
Danoff 2 1 6 0 3 Sunset Avenue.
Yeah, thank you. Please tell us your comments.
Uh,
Uh, when we bought the house at 21 6 0 3 Sunset Avenue
in 2009,
our fence yard went past our property boundary all the way
through the rezoned property.
At one time there was an alley back there
and the easement was split up.
I went to city council meeting January, 2018
to voice my concerns about rezoning.
I went to the building planning meeting 2018
to voice my concerns.
Do you have the plans from the original plans at
all here?
No. Oh,
Not from 2018.
Okay. On Good Friday,
April 19th, 2019,
the heavy equipment came in and leveled the property.
They ripped out the fencing, so I had to make an emergency.
This is where our property used to run all the way up
to their building before rezoning.
After they ripped out all the fences, my dogs could get out
of the yard and other dogs came in.
I had to put up a cyclone fence
or not a, uh, an emergency fence
without warning, they ripped everything out.
Uh, to this day, b
and b maintenance services have only put up a rag tag fence
with some wood stakes and zip ties.
For the past six years, I've gone to the Warren Zoning
Commission office twice a year.
I've talked to this gentleman quite a few times.
I've shown them photos, left binders
with printed photos and data sticks.
They say, yes, this is a problem,
and they will get right on it.
Nothing ever happened.
In 2023, I asked the zoning office
to see the building plans specifically about the green belt.
They said I needed to file a Freedom of Information Act
to get that information.
The next day I filed the f Freedom of Information Act.
They told me all planning documents were offsite,
getting digitized.
I never heard back from them.
So now we're here seven years later asking for a variance.
I would like anyone on the board to stop by my house
and see what I've put up with for seven years.
I would like the plans that were promised
to me seven years ago to be put forth.
One last thing,
did they put blinders on their parking lot?
Lights? 'cause this is from my back door.
I've got photos here.
If anybody wants to see 'em,
you're more than welcome. Thank you.
Thank you. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to speak?
Not seeing anyone. I close
the public portion of the meeting.
I'll turn it over to Secretary Jersey.
We do have one, uh, email
that we'll read into the record from a neighbor,
and we'll also read into the record the, uh,
planning department impact statement.
First, uh, thank you Mr. Chair.
Um, first is the from the citizen.
It's from a Thomas Doen living at
2 1 6 1 9 Sunset Avenue.
He opposes any and all variances being granted to b
and b maintenance 2 1 5 5 0 Ryan Road for following reasons.
I cannot enjoy my patio with friends
and family due to unsightly view
and noise from their heavy equipment
at their business on a daily basis.
My house, windows, vinyl siding, patio,
and vehicles are covered in dust at the end
of every week from all the,
all the dust from their business.
I feel like I live in the DPW yard.
I invite you all to stop by my home to see what I have
to deal with on a daily basis.
The green belt flat,
they removed without authorization, needs to be replaced.
To help alleviate some of the some of these issues,
we are all neighbors and we should allow consideration
and respect to each other, each other so we can all
coexist peacefully enclosed below our portion
or our photos of what it looks like to
look out my window from my bedroom, kitchen,
and dining room all the time.
Also, photos from my patio showing what I have
to look at in a, in a closer view.
I am being robbed of my right
to enjoy my backyard peacefully, quietly,
and unsightly environment due to
not having a green belt behind my home.
Like other citizens of Warren, I pay my taxes to the city
of Warren and I deserve better.
Thomas Thomas Doen.
And the next is, um,
impact statement from the planning department.
Um, after review of the request,
the following issues were found
to impact the budding local or general public.
On May 6th, 2019,
the the petitioner received the receive site plan approval
for open storage in a, in a parking lot.
An eight foot wide green belt is required along the east
property line, the east 76 feet of south property line
and East 76 feet of north property line.
Where it abuts the residential zone districts
is the recommendation of the playing department
that the petitioner's variance request
to remove the requirement
of the eight foot green belt be denied.
The petitioner's request to replace the eight foot green
belt with a proposed nine foot three panel metal fence
is inadequate screening
for the residential dwellings abutting
to the east of the property.
Should the petitioner's variance request
to waive the eight foot green belt be granted,
the planning department recommends
that a wall be constructed of six foot high brick
and bus poured concrete
with a 45 degree angle cap masonry block.
And precast concrete shall not be used
as construction material.
The wall shall be constructed along the east property line
and along the east 25 feet of the south property line
where it butts the residential dwellings.
Any proposed changes to the approved site plan shall require
planning commission approval is the
observation that I provide.
And this is my opinion.
Thank you. Thank you.
At this time, I'll turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Mr. Chair. Mr. Sitz,
You have the floor.
Okay. Pictures.
So looking at this property, okay, the first variance
that they're asking for is about waving the green belts on
the north, south and east property lines.
I understand it could support waving them on the north
and south since they abut other industrial
properties over there.
However, I do agree with the planning recommendation
that an eight foot green belt belonged
to East Property Line is needed.
That's the one that abuts the residence.
And a four foot or anything smaller I think is inadequate.
So I personally would not be supporting waiving that
because I do feel it should be at least the eight foot wide
green belt
and the variance.
The second one, asking for a nine foot tall,
three panel metal privacy
fencing along to East Property line.
I think that's awfully, I mean, nine foot is very large.
Even when we've done some walls,
we've done eight foot eight's, the highest I can remember,
and now it's actually going up to nine.
And I think that's too high.
Personally, I'd love to see that being, I mean, due
to the nature of the business that goes on there,
I think it needs to be bigger, taller than six foot
because I mean, I'm six two, if I'd be able
to be looking over that wall, I think it's,
that wall would be too short.
I can picture an eight foot wall,
but I think eight foot wall,
something along like the concrete lines would be better
than the metal.
That's just my personal opinion. The green belt. Yeah.
Well I still feel the green belt is needed, uh,
because looking at the photos, I mean,
I could not see the back of the property from the street,
but looking at the photos that were
provided, you know, the back of
that property has a lot of stuff.
You need to have that eight foot green belt
so you don't have all that stuff up
against the neighbors locked.
That's my personal opinion.
Thank you. Any other comments from the board?
Mr. Chair? Mr. Watts?
I have a couple questions for Mr. Wats.
Yes, sir. So my question is, looking back
through the data that was provided
and then online, looking at the building department records,
has this place ever had a certificate of compliance?
I am not ready to answer that at this point
because I did not look that up.
All right. Because my findings in B-S-N-A-I,
I don't believe so. I,
I believe there's always been an issue if they did,
it was because they started to go through site plan
and we would sign off until they finished the site plan.
We would issue one, basically like a contingent one
that we could rescind if needed, if they did receive one.
But I know they've, there's been zoning issues
for a long time here.
So this is my problem looking at, at, at what was
provided in the packet
and looking at the certificate of compliance.
This has been going on for a long time.
And I hate to say this,
but I, I have a concern
of whether they plan on complying
and being good neighbors or not.
Um, I wouldn't want that going on by my house
looking at the pictures
that were provided and what have you.
Um, this is not right and it's been going on too long
and it needs to be stopped.
So, uh, I would not vote for this at all.
Any other comments from the board, Mr. Chair? Mr. Lindsay?
I have a, a quick question for the petitioner,
if I'm understanding correctly,
it sounds like there was a green belt
there and it was removed. Is
That correct? There was a four foot
green belt area there next
to the, uh, pavement. Correct.
And do you know, do you know the reason it was removed
When they were cleaning up the yard when, uh, Mr.
Borg took possession of the building?
He wasn't the original owner. Okay.
He cleaned up the entire site.
Um, that's why they came to the, uh, building department.
And that's when all these items were, uh, compiled. And Mr.
Borg has been, uh, meeting those criteria.
One was about the front entrance, uh,
about street, uh, trees.
Other was the parking lot striping.
Uh, another item was irrigation.
Uh, of that site, which all those items have been
maintained, that fence
of the barrier proposal can be reduced down to eight foot.
'cause it is a type of metal fencing that can be cut.
So that's not an issue if that's what the board deems to be,
uh, the correct height of eight foot, uh,
that's not the issue.
Uh, when we came back here in two, in 2019, uh,
that eight foot fence was imp, you know, approved
to be a cyclone fence.
Um, then covid happened and a couple other things.
So there has been a large delay,
and of course it shouldn't be a
deterrent towards the neighbor.
Um, we're trying to rectify that right now.
Um, that's why we went for the building
permit to get the action.
And that's when the eight foot rule was, uh, given to us.
So that's why they told us to come back to the variance
to get that handled to determine six foot or eight foot.
And that's when we came up with the solid cord,
uh, designed for screening.
Um, this neighbor has had issues in the past with debris
and dust, but that parking lot is not a dust
or a gravel parking lot.
It's an asphalt parking lot.
The neighbors to the south
and neighbors to the north have open area
that are gravel on the north side
and grass on the south side.
So, um, it's not just one party
that may be creating dust
for these neighbors or things like that.
Um, so like I said, we're here to try to comply with that.
We understand that the time is passed, uh, extremely
beyond reasonable.
Um, so we're looking for that guidance
so we can get this rectified.
Mr. Chair, I'll make it easy.
Um, real quick, you had indicated that somebody told you
to make the, you weren't sure if the fence should be
six feet or eight feet.
The building department, uh, stated that.
Right. But your petition says nine feet.
Yeah, that, that's an error in the,
because it wasn't shown to be trimm. Okay. That's a area.
So You with it is a eight foot.
You agree with reducing that to eight feet? Yes
Sir. Yes sir. But number
one,
it sounds like you're not gonna get the support
to wave the green belt.
Secretary Jersey, do you have something to add? Uh,
Just now, just to,
based off everything I've heard, it just doesn't seem like
we're like in original compliance
with the original site plan.
And if that's the case,
why we here granting additional variances?
That's kind of what I seek.
I'm just looking at it from just a generalization, just,
you know, but it's, I know to me personally,
if they're not living up to their initial obligations
and not helping us meet us halfway as a ci, you know,
the city, why should we meet them
halfway granting a variance?
So that, that's my
Position. Making an eight foot green
belt is not the, was not an issue
of us not determining it.
We asked for the four foot
because that was what it was existing.
So to bring back four more feet,
it would be an economical hardship,
but it will, it can be done.
But it was also selfimposed so self imposed, you know,
but the existing was previously on the site.
That's, that's all I was, I'm trying
To say, that's my initial thought is to deny this,
but then denying it doesn't help the neighbor out.
It's much better if the,
the wall just gets approved at eight feet.
Make them put the green belt back in. I think that's the
Mr. Chair best option.
Mr. Cliff.
I just want to go on the record saying if I had to live
behind that, I'd want a 15 foot fence
between me and that mess.
Mr. Green, One question, Mr. Mancini.
The, what year did he put up the salt dome?
You have the big white.
Oh, Put that, that's an, that, that was a permit. Uh,
I'm direct, excuse me, I'm
directing my question to the petitioner. Oh,
Okay. Yeah, that was a permitted
soft dome, uh,
salt dome container.
When was it installed? Pardon?
What year was it installed?
Uh, that was done in
29, 20 20 20 19 17.
1717, sir. Sorry,
2017 and the defense, it was tore down in 2019, correct,
Sir. When they were cleaning up
all the brush in the, uh, uh,
ingrown vines in between.
That's why the fence was tore
Apart. So, so there was a
fence there. Not a green
There. A belt in
the back. There was a six foot cyclone
fence originally there.
So what happens is, if we, if you take a look at the,
this, uh, metal fence and, and if you go to the area
and you look at the reside residential houses behind there,
it's just a cluster.
You've got a four foot brick,
then you've got a cyclone fence, then you've got someone
who put their own dog ear.
Is that what it's called? Dog ear, like wood fence up.
Correct. Then you've got the big spot in the opening
where your business is.
It, it looks, it is like if we put a green nine foot thing
up, it's just gonna, I think aesthetically it's just gonna
look bad.
I mean, it's gonna be, it's gonna create a bigger problem.
It's gonna look terrible. So that's my statement,
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Watts, Based on the, on what I'm seeing the facts
and you know, the planning department is saying
that it's gotta be a concrete wall
and they're saying it's gotta be the eight foot green belt.
And then looking at the problems where it appears
that they don't have a certificate of compliance.
I agree with Mr. Jersey. Why are we here?
So I would make a motion to deny
Mr. Mr. Chair. I
mean, I second, we could make, if they, if they
see, I would be in favor of it
with the eight foot green belt.
And personally, I like a concrete wall as opposed
to a metal wall that I could go with.
But if they don't do that,
then I would not be in supportive.
I I could get behind that request too.
I, well ask the petitioner, would you, would you
be in agreement to amend this petition
to have an eight foot poured concrete wall?
Six foot to match the two adjoining sides?
I guess it would be six foot to meet the plannings request.
I mean, we can plant taller trees, I guess
to make it slightly eight foot,
Six foot wall or six foot of green, six
Foot wall.
Because that's what, that's up to the board. Probably not.
That's what, that's in the standards of what the planting is
Planning did recommend six feet brick.
But God, if I was a
neighbor back there, I would want it taller.
If you look at Mr. Chair, if you look at the site,
even though it's eight foot would probably be appropriate.
I know, but can we mandate eight feet the ordinances,
six foot, you're draining the
Variance. Yes. Yeah.
I mean, what does the ordinance say as, as written?
What's, what? Couldn't he just put up a six foot block wall?
If that's, if that's the case,
how can we force him to put up eight?
I believe that the planning ordinance states six foot
concrete barrier and, uh, brick embossed.
I believe that's what the standard states on
It. Mr. Thought the ordinance to say
six foot concrete.
That's why the planning recommendation
Is six six foot Poured concrete.
Right. Yeah.
I don't think we could impose
As if we that recommendation Mr.
Chair also that recommendation was based off us waiving
that if, if we wa the eight foot green belt, you know?
Right. Which I don't want do. No, I
Think we, I think Mr. Chair,
we need to have the eight foot green belt
and the poor concrete
Wall. Okay.
I agree. There'd be in agreement with that.
It sounds like the petitioner, that's
what he would agree to.
Would you agree to modify your petition to it? Six foot,
Six foot, four concrete embossed, uh, wall
with an eight foot green belt in that rear on Correct.
On the east corner. Yeah, east line.
We would agree with that. Okay.
You have my vote in Mr. Mr. Starwood vote,
Mr. Chair.
So my question is, can maybe
to the city attorney or to Mr.
WaPo, can we grant variances if the property isn't in
compliance with a certificate of compliance?
That's a problem.
I will let Madam Attorney take that one.
I, my opinion is that the reason you come
for variances is
because it ist in compliance most of the time.
So I would say yes, but I would defer to the city attorney.
I I would tend to agree with that,
but I mean, ultimately to answer that question,
I I would have to do some research.
Um,
Yeah, I think by doing nothing, it's not solving any
of the noise complaints or dust complaints.
But at the same time, we want to be able to enforce
What, in 5, 6, 7 years,
what have they done to solve any of the problem?
Right. Nothing. They haven't followed through
with their certificate of compliance.
Compliance according to the city.
Uh, B-S-N-A-I, I can't, I can't vote for that.
We, we owe the, we owe the residents
that are there 24 7 better.
So that's my opinion.
Any other comments from the board,
Ms. Mr. Chair? I
can make, um, I can make a motion,
but I do have one question,
and again, it's by not being, seeing the back of the yard.
I know that this property on the south side, so you know,
along the east side you have the wall.
Who would have a wall against that residence?
I know on the south side where it starts going
west, there's a residential property that appears longer
Than there's a little, uh, thing to the,
that residential piece has a little dog leg,
if you want to call it that. Yeah,
That's what They have a, uh, white laced, um,
six foot cyclone fence that abuts to that wall of the, uh,
industrial portion of that.
Okay. Concrete wall that's poured to the industrial,
to the south.
That's correct. About 10 foot, I believe. 10.
So I was just trying to think like what that section,
would that be cyclone
or would that be part of the wall that you,
I mean it could be, I guess concrete
to l-shaped back into that wall.
Well, that's, that's, I was trying to think because
That's probably not, I was talking about
that's probably not an issue when you're already there.
If you read the planning impact statement
as a city attorney pointed out, it says
the wall shall be constructed along the east property line
and along the east 25 feet of the south property line
where it abuts the residential dwelling units. But
Thank you for pointing that out.
Yeah. Okay. So
The dog legs. Mm-hmm.
Okay. So this,
It would continue to that. Okay. Correct.
And you would be fine with that? Yep.
Okay. It was a good observation.
Okay. I mean, there's no other comments.
I, I, to make a motion,
I do believe I had a motion to deny on floor. Oh,
Okay. Sorry.
Not allow it. So, okay. Motion to deny
Reasons.
The reasons is it's a detriment.
They're, they need to have a certificate of occupancy.
They need to bring the place up, the standards
and then we can take a look at the rest of it.
Do we have a support for the denial? Support
Of A motion by Mr. Watts to deny support by Mr.
Assessor and your reasons to deny due
to the failure to have a
Certificate of compliance.
Certificate of compliance. Right.
And they show a history of not doing what they're supposed
to do to keep the property up.
Roll call. So yes. Vote is to deny, uh, Mr. Watts Yes.
To deny Mr. Assessor? Yes.
To deny Mr. Green?
No. Mr. Starch.
I vote no not to decline.
'cause I think we can actually make something work here.
Mr. Perry? No.
Mr. Lindsey? No.
Mr. Cliff? I vote no.
I think we should have made a move on this
or come to some kind of an agreement for the benefits
of the residents that are immediately impacted by that
unsightly mess behind the residence.
Mr. Jersey votes yes. To deny Chairman Aya?
No. I believe we can work something else out.
So the motion has failed. Has failed
That case. I'd like to make a
motion.
A a modified motion. Modified approval motion.
Okay, So hopefully I capture all this correctly.
So I'd like to make a motion to
waive the required green belts along the north
and south property lines.
Uh, not along the east.
The east would remain a green,
eight foot green belt is required.
Um, and instead
of the nine foot metal privacy fencing, it's for a court
concrete wall to be constructed along the east property line
and along the east 25 feet of the south property line
where it abuts the residential property.
Did I capture that correctly so far? Yes. Okay.
Reasons being the size and the shape of the lot.
And after I just leave it at that
Tall, how tall What? How
Tall wall Turn on your
Mic. Um, it
Clarification please.
On the height of the wall,
I was going with the six.
I was going with the six foot
because that's what the planning
and what the ordinances say. Um,
Thank you.
I have no idea. Oh, sorry. Yes. Okay. Okay. Sorry.
Okay, so the,
the from the ve Okay, so basically it is
to waive the required eight foot wide green belts along the
north and south property lines along the east property line.
The eight foot green belt is still required.
And instead of installing the nine foot metal privacy
fencing, the petitioner shall
construct a wall along the east property line
and along the east 25 feet of the south property line
where it abuts the residential property.
Um, and that wall at six foot high
reasons being the size and shape of the lot.
Okay.
And that's that wall. It's ported concrete.
Yes. Ported concrete. Okay. Support.
We have a motion by Mr. Neitz.
Support by Mr. Perry to approve the request as read
Mr. St. Starch
Yes. For reason stated
in the
Motion. Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reason stated in a motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reason stated in the
Motion. Mr. Green?
Yes. For
The reasons stated of the motion.
Uh, Mr. Cliff? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Assessor? No, I think
that's a detriment to, uh,
Turn your mic in.
Sorry. No, I think it's a detriment.
Mr. Watts? No, it's a detriment to the area. Mr.
Jersey votes? No. I believe
it's still a detriment to the area.
Um, chairman Spy?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion, the revised, uh,
request has been approved.
Thank You. Thank you. Thank
You. Sorry
for the inconvenience. We'll get this handled.
Thank you.
This brings us back to
item seven that we're recalling.
Item seven. Seven,
Yep.
Item seven, which actually became 19, I think.
Um, applicant Schmo may Representative Aya.
Common description. 3 0 9 7 1 Lorraine variances requested
permission to widen concrete driveway in the front.
Setback nine feet, six inches from the north corner
of the garage towards the north property line.
Is the petitioner present for item seven now 19.
Not seeing anyone. It's my understanding
that today might be a holiday.
If we could, um, we, should we postpone
for one meeting or just indefinitely?
Okay. So the next meeting would be, uh, April 9th.
Motion to table till April 9th, 2025.
Support You have a motion by Mr. Cliff. Support by Mr.
Sitz to table now. Item 19.
Due to Ramadan to April 9th. All in favor? A. Aye.
Item 19 has been tabled. Aye
Takes us to item 19 A,
which is applicant image 360 Brighton.
Representative Robert Dempster, era
Telian description, 1 1 812 mile branch requested permission
to erect a 20 foot wide by 50 foot tall.
1000 square foot. Temporary banner sign higher than six feet
above surface grade for a period of one year.
Not seeing anyone in the audience.
Motion to table till April 9th, 2025.
Board a motion by Mr. Cliff.
Support by Mr. Perry to table item now 19 A
to April 9th.
All in favor? Aye. Aye.
Nay. Item 19 A has been tabled to April 9th.
This brings us to new business.
Um, I'd like to say something real quick, Mr.
Chair, under new business.
Um, first off, I'd like to, um, welcome Mr.
Assessor and Mr. Green to the board.
Um, um, I, I know Mr.
Assessor was on last week's, uh,
or last month's, uh, board meeting.
And, uh, with Mr.
Englin leaving, we kind of got,
gotta miss the welcoming you to the board.
So do a double welcome to Mr. Green and Mr.
Uh, assessor and also miss, uh, wish, uh, Mr. Higgins, uh,
well in his, uh, endeavors.
Um, Mr. Higgins has officially resigned from the board
and, uh, wish him the best of luck
and, um, his future, uh, whatever his future holds.
And, uh, thank you for his, uh, input
and his service to the board as well.
And, um, that's all I have.
Thank you. Any other new business?
Motion to adjourn. Motion
To adjourn Support Meeting Adjourned.
10 55.