So I would like to call to order a regular meeting
of the zoning board of appeals for Wednesday,
April 9th at 7:30 PM at the Warren Community Center.
Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands.
One nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.
Uh, Roll call.
Y'all have to bear with us now.
Okay,
chairman.
Sophia's Absent. Vice chair. Ms. Trovic.
Here. Mr. Jersey? Absent.
Mr. Green Present? Mr. Perry? Absent.
Mr. Lindsey? Here. Mr. Cliff is here.
Mr. Watts? Here. Mr.
Assessor, project roll calls conducted. Okay.
So before we move on to the next item, um,
we have six out of the nine members.
So we do have a quorum to move forward,
but since we are down three members, I wanted
to make an op an offer an opportunity
to all the petitioners here today,
because you need to have five yes votes
for your item to pass.
Uh, there's six of us here.
So basically you need to have all mo you know,
five out of the six of us to vote.
Yes. If anybody wants to reschedule
to our next meeting, which would be on April 23rd, I wanted
to give you the opportunity to reschedule it, um,
if they have a full board as opposed to just the six of us.
So if any of the petitioners want to reschedule,
if you just approach the podium, then we're get
that scheduled for the next meeting.
If everybody's good on proceeding,
we'll just go forward as is.
Okay? Okay. So not seeing anybody come forward, uh,
we're moved to the adoption of the agenda today. How
About we excuse our members that are Oh, I'm sorry. Yes.
Uh, Motion to excuse Any or particular or all three?
All three. Yeah. Motion to excuse Mr. Sophia. Support.
Mr. Jersey and Mr. Perry. I heard support from
Son Shaman. Mr. Green.
Mr. Lindsey? Mr. Green. Oh, Mr. Green.
I used to everybody's voices.
Sorry. Sorry. That's just the vocal, right?
Yeah. I think you have to pull. You have to call it. Yeah.
So, all in favor of excusing the missing members? Aye.
Aye. Anybody opposed?
Okay. Members are
Excused. Um,
item number four, adoption of the agenda.
So move Support. Yep. We have a motion by Mr. Watts.
And that was support by Mr.
Assessor, I believe I heard, correct? Mm-hmm. Okay.
All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay.
It takes us to item five, which is approval of the minutes
of the meeting of February 12th, 2025.
Hopefully everybody had a chance to review those.
I Did. You did
I make a motion to approve the minutes from, uh,
February 12th, 2025?
I had a chance to review the minutes.
I support that. All in favor? Aye. Aye.
Does anybody opposed? Okay.
I did not see the minutes for March 9th.
So we will actually move that to the next meeting.
So actually, can we take, make, make a motion
to table the minutes of March 9th to the April 23rd meeting?
I'll support that. Support that.
Okay. All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Okay.
Okay. Basis item number six.
Item number six, applicant. Oh boy.
Shammed Mia. I probably goofed that all up.
3 0 9 7 1. Lorraine, is that you, sir?
Gotta step on up to the podium, sir.
Read the variance. Requested.
The variance that's being requested is permission to
widen a concrete driveway
and the front setback, nine feet,
six inches from the north corner of the garage
toward the north property line.
Okay. So I just, for all petitioners, uh,
when you come up, if you just can state your name
into the microphone, followed by your address,
and then take us to your request, describe it,
and then the reasons for it. Okay?
Okay. Hi, uh, my name is Shami Mia.
Uh, address, uh, 3 0 9 7 1 Loraine Avenue, Warren, Michigan,
4 0 9 3.
Okay. And the reason for your request today or your
Yeah. Um, uh,
yeah, I'm requesting to riding my, uh, driveway
for the concrete, um, uh, left side of my, uh, driveway
because I got a situation.
Um, I have a two child are disabled.
I having very difficulty to, uh, taking care of them
with a wheelchair.
And I, I got two vehicle
and I cannot park them behind my, um, uh, behind the street.
There's, uh, other car comms and they hit my, uh, vehicles.
So I need a gap. So I was requesting, uh, I,
I I'm gonna request please consider my application
and, uh, grant me, pardon me today,
I al already mentioned all the paperwork, uh,
and I got, uh, as I already, uh, submit the doctor,
uh, note as well.
So please, uh, help me out.
Okay? Thank you for that description.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Are there any members of the audience
wanting to speak on this item?
Okay. Not seeing any of members of the public
are closed the public hearing
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
And, uh, actually, I'll just start it by making a comment.
I mean, so I, I,
I understand the need when people need
to have additional parking, especially being off the street.
And I see the notes here from your doctor
regarding both children in the package
and stuff showing, um, you know, the, there is space,
it's within the fence line there.
Um, I personally have no issues with this one,
but that's my comments.
I know. Any other comments from other board members?
Mr. Chair? Yes. Uh, Mr. Dean.
So I have a couple questions for the petitioner.
Uh, first do, do both the children live at the house?
Yes. Okay.
Do you bring any work vehicles home from your work?
I'm sorry, repeat that one more time.
I'm, I'm sorry, go ahead. Say it again.
No, I'm saying, uh, repeat this question one more time.
Did you repeat Your question?
Oh, do you, do you bring any work vehicles home? No,
No. Only my personal
vehicle.
And it's your contention that,
so if you had one van in the driveway
Yes. And
You, you, you still don't have the
ability to get the children out.
No, I got, and I'm so sorry.
I have another, another vehicle.
Uh, the picture is showing it actually,
my vehicle was removed.
Maybe I, uh, my, uh, side parks, uh, other street.
This where maybe picture doesn't show.
So, uh, right now I got two vehicle.
Uh, so even I parked that, uh, in my driveway.
It is very gap. It's not like it doesn't have
any space to go around.
So, I'm sorry. So you have two vehicles? Yes.
So, and do you have handicap access into the house,
like a ramp or something? Uh,
No. I'm, I'm, I'm
going to build, um, just, uh, um, um,
arranging money right now.
But I, right now I'm using my, um, garage, garage chair,
and I put all this, uh, wheelchair inside the garage.
And when I take my babies outside, I just grab this, uh,
wheelchair and I go behind the driveway
and put them inside the car.
Thank you. I have a question, sir.
Please go ahead. Cliff, go ahead.
Um, looks like you're at the end of the block.
What, what's, what's next to you?
Is that a parking lot over here? Next, next door to you?
Yeah. Yeah. This is a dental, uh, parking lot.
They don't want me to park over there.
No, no, I wasn't, I wasn't inferring that.
I was just wanting to make the comment
that it from appearances.
Um, and I'm remiss I didn't get out like I usually
do, uh, prior to the meeting.
But going by the photograph,
it looks like you're like the last house on the,
on the street, and then you have this business in the
parking lot next door, correct? Correct.
Yeah. Okay. I I,
that concludes my question
for the respondent. Thank you, sir.
You're welcome. Um, Mr. Waz, did you have a comment or no?
Yeah, just how much are you gonna widen it by?
Are you widening it all the way to the fence
Behind? Maybe I'm
gonna keep, uh, keep gap.
Maybe, uh, one feet or like 10, maybe one feet.
'cause I need a space, uh, for my,
I'm gonna plant some flowers
or I'm, I'll make in in case I, uh, want to work
for the friend bench.
You know, I have some space, so I pretty much, I all I need.
I, what, what I mentioned. I, hopefully
I'm not gonna go against the French. So, so
What is the actual width you're adding to the driveway?
How much? I'm going, um, 15 by 25, uh, 25 feet.
I hope, uh, that's enough for me.
Clarification. Now,
Uh, I just wanna clarify.
That's how after you're done working, that's
how wide the driveway is.
'cause I thought according to this picture,
you're adding 12 feet, correct?
Yes. Okay. So when you're done, you'll have 25 Uhhuh?
Yes. Okay. I just wanted to clarify
That. So, Mr. Chair
Yes, Mr. On the
request, it's, it, it says wide
concrete setback, nine feet, six inches from north corner
of the garage towards the north property line.
So is your intention is to add nine feet?
I just wanna make sure we get it right.
So you don't, but not back. Have to change it.
You understand what I'm saying? Do you see the backup
where it says nine feet, six inches? Mm-hmm.
Mr. Green, that's taken in account the 30 inches
for the width of the garage that is already there.
He's, he's telling us he's moving nine feet,
six inches from the corner of the garage.
But there's a 30 inch width
that's already incorporated in it,
which brings it to a total of 12
From the north corner
of the garage towards the property line.
Okay, Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr.
So when I read, I just wanna make sure he doesn't put,
when I read this, it says that the measurement is 12 feet up
to the, the, the little four foot fence.
So if he's asking for nine feet, six inches,
Yeah, that's the 12 feet minus the 30 inches.
But the 30 inches is a part,
is a part of the driveway, though.
The measurement is taken from the corner of the garage.
Oh, his base measurements from the corner of the garage.
Got it. Yes. Okay. I just wanna make sure I had that clear.
So Yes, Mr. Rutz
Here. Here's the problem
I have with this.
We have this going on all over the city.
We have another one on the agenda tonight.
I, And
there's a driveway there.
And I understand he's got an an A situation,
but I don't see where adding this much
is a good thing for the neighborhood.
I,
I, I could, you know, I could tell you there's at least four
or five I that, that I have seen that have done this,
that are in violation.
And either they're going one way,
they're going the other way, and it, it's not good
for the neighborhood.
Well, Well, let me ask you, Mr. Watts, or, I mean,
Uh, That's like at, based on the 12 feet, do you
consider if there was less than 12 feet or, I just,
Just, I, I'll be honest with you,
if I could see widening the driveway,
I could see winding 30 inches to the edge of the garage.
But I couldn't see adding another
whole parking space all the way across there.
Mr. Chair, That's not gonna look,
that's not gonna look right with the neighborhood at all.
Yeah. So, yeah, I can also like see a point.
'cause sometimes I, I take a look.
I have a two car driveway, one car,
I can only park one car in my garage.
'cause of all the stuff I have in there from lawnmowers
and all that, one car ends up on the driveway
and the third one gets put on the street.
I, I, I have the same situation. Yeah.
So, um, there's ways around it.
So that's just my opinion, I think. I don't think it's good.
Uh, Mr. Green, you had a comment? Yeah,
I had, I tend to agree with Mr. Watts.
I'd be much more comfortable if it was,
uh, half that.
I mean, I'm, I'm not telling him what, how to do it,
but 12 feet seems a, like a lot.
And aesthetically, when you look at these people who've done
it without asking for variances, it's, it's just not,
it doesn't, it doesn't look like part of the neighborhood.
So I would, I'm uncomfortable with the 12 feet.
Well, um, well, you hearing with both
of you are uncomfortable with 12.
I mean, if the petitioner would be willing
to consider a lessor amount, would the you be willing
to discuss that or
Yes, I would, Because I know standard width
of a driveway, I thought it was always around like 10 feet.
I mean, um,
So the, what, I'm Sorry. I
think a standard width of a single
car driveway is 10 feet.
Is it
Mr. Chair. But the purpose,
Uh, first Mr. Let
Mr. Green then Mr. Plus, but
The purpose is to, to to have, to be able
to get his two children out safely, like in the winter
or stuff like that where he is on cement.
So I could see
where something less than 12 feet would be, I would be open
to that if that would be something
that would be agreeable upon.
I, I get your problem, but I just,
the 12 feet's too much.
So, so my thought is, like I said originally Yeah.
Is the 30 inches that would take it out to the edge
of the garage any more than that wouldn't be.
Right. That's where I'm at. So,
Okay.
Well, Mr. Mr. Green, I mean, is there a
width amount that you'd like to propose?
'cause you know, I I, I, I'd be good
with proposing 10 if the petitioner would want that.
But I wasn't sure if, I mean,
is here Mr. Watson thinks 30 inches, I
I think that would be cut a little bit tight, but
I don't believe he needs a variance
for the additional 30 inches.
I think, I don't know. I think the think
he does says it the width of the garage.
That's why the measurement for the variance,
that's why the measure variance,
because he could do 30 inches with,
he can already do the three inches.
Got it. Uh, Ms. Everett,
can you approach the podium for a moment?
I think anything less than six feet would be, I,
I would be a favorable, but the petition,
I just did wanna clarify one thing.
If he expands it to the width of the garage
and no farther, he does not need a variance.
It's when you expand beyond the width of the garage
that he would need the variance.
So if he only goes the 30 inches,
he doesn't need a variance for that.
Just clearing that up.
Okay. Thank you Mr.
Chair. Yes, Mr. Rus. Um,
In, I may, I'd like to ask the petitioner,
would you be comfortable with just 30 inches width
added to your driveway?
30 inches long the way,
Like 30 inches width right
to the edge of the garage and no further?
Uh, I need to, uh, get it one more time.
Like, like 30 inch from garage to, uh, side sidewalk.
No, you can go all the way
down the sidewalk from the garage.
What I'm saying is you can add 30 inches from the
driveway to the edge of the garage.
Would that give you enough room?
To be honest, uh, I don't think so. No.
'cause uh, I, I already try,
but then, um, I find out there is gonna
be difficulty in the future.
'cause the big kids are growing up
and I, um, in future, I have to build a ramp
behind the garage door.
I really need that space.
I want to add additional,
one other comment as the neighborhood.
He mentioned next door, me, the person who lives next door,
me, he, he, without the permit, he tell me,
I just put a concrete and they send violation letter.
I went to the court, I tell them, Hey, I need it.
And they just approved me. That's it.
He just have, prepare, uh, the fine.
The other neighbor, uh, third house, four house.
He, he did same thing the last year.
And I said, did you guys get ticket permit?
They say, we, we need a permit.
If they can, if they have a problem,
they're gonna come, uh, come to us.
We, we we're gonna show, show them some lesson.
Lesson then, um, then, uh, la later on, I see.
I talked to them after a few months.
Hey, you guys, any, had any trouble?
Yeah, we had to go to court and we, we convinced them.
Then I ask them, you guys have any situation? No.
It's, it's just not looking beautiful in my, my house.
I want to, you know, look nice.
So it is my house and it, it is my choice.
And so now it's come to me.
Um, uh, I was requesting you guys that it, it's, uh,
I've been living here, uh, over, uh, four years now.
I wouldn't put anything
'cause I don't wanna spend any money.
But because of two child is not easy to,
especially disabled child.
It's not easy to taking care. Just right now.
I, I put my, uh, youngest one with oxygen.
I probably gonna take him in the hospital.
'cause his situation when going down
and, um, he, he, he, he have, um, so much difficulty.
He, he's his, his, uh, he compromised
with all, all this thing.
He have a hydro soles
that a youngest one is seven years old.
He don't know what, what this art with what, what's going on
with him right now.
And he really like to be, uh, when the summer come, he wants
to go outside and the the youngest one get very sensitive.
Even any dust touch him, he got sick. You know.
So the area I have is a darted and it's kind of dusty.
I want, I want to, even now I'm thinking
if when I put a concrete there is, then
that's not, not drastic.
It is gonna be over there. And my,
my two baby can have some, uh, space to play.
You know, I can play with them.
So that's why, uh, I'm, I'm kind of humbled today.
Please, uh, look one more time with my, uh, application.
See as much, thank
You for that explanation.
Um, if, would you, uh, would you be willing
to accept if the total amount was instead of 12 feet,
and I know it's 9.6 from the north corner, if instead of 12,
it was like, let's say 10 feet.
So therefore it'd be seven feet,
six inches from the corner of the garage.
That way it's a usable space.
I mean, if somebody made a support for that,
would you be good with that?
12 feet? Well, instead of being the 12, it'd be 10.
So you, so It'd be two
less feet than what you're asking?
Two less feet, like 10 feet as long. Okay.
Um, maybe I can manage like, uh, maybe it's maybe one,
one feet gap from my fence.
I hope so. As long as I get 10 feet at least. Yeah. Yeah.
Because then you have room
for the wheelchair and all that.
Um, you know,
Mr. Chairman? Yes.
Mr. Clifft, that measurement
that you're proposing is comparable to what was done
next door at the property next door to him,
I believe would be either the south of him.
I'm, I'm looking at an aerial view.
There was some addition done on that property.
Whether it was permitted or not, I don't know. I don't know.
But, um, that house directly to the south
of him looks like it's got a,
it's gotta be four or five feet off of the corner of the,
uh, of the garage.
Mm-hmm. Going north.
Um, and I also wanted to add that
I think I could get behind your proposal, um, of the,
of the overall 10 foot width as opposed to the 12 foot.
I mean, if, is there other discussion
or would you like to make a motion or
Does anybody else have anything?
I'll, I'll make, I'll be glad to make a motion on this.
Make a motion. Let's see.
Very well, I'll go ahead and I'll make a motion.
I'm gonna make the motion for granted permission
to widen the concrete driveway in the front setback.
Seven foot six inches, six inches from the north corner
of the garage towards the property line.
Due to the fact that it's not a detriment to the area,
it fits reasonably well
with modifications already made adjacent
within the neighborhood
Support.
So we have a motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by Mr. Lindsay to approve the request
as written in the motion.
Uh, roll call vote.
Mr. Cliff votes? Yes. Mr. Lindsay?
Uh, yes. For the reason. State
And motion.
Mr. Watts? No, I think it's
A detriment to the neighborhood.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Green's not on here. Mr. Green?
Yes. For the reason Stated in the motion
Chairman?
Uh, yes. For the reason in the motion.
Uh, so, so your request was approved
for the seven feet, six inches.
So the total width would be 10 feet.
Do you have any questions of that?
You could talk to our building department, but, you know.
Thank you. That's it.
Um, yeah, if I need any question, I'm gonna ask them.
Maybe this is Steve. Maybe I spoke to him before.
Is that him? I'm not sure. Mm-hmm.
So, yeah. Thank you. Okay.
All Set? Yes. All set. Thank you very much.
Okay, so that's gonna take us
to item number. I'll bring us to item number
Number seven.
Item number seven. The applicant is Image
360 out of Brighton.
Representative is, uh, Mr. Robert Dempster.
There's also a IRA ban.
The address
1 1 8 0 0 12 mile Road.
The variance that is being requested is
to erect a 20 foot wide by 50 foot tall,
1000 square foot temporary banner sign
higher than six feet above surface grade for a period
of one year.
Okay. So if you could just start with your name
and address and then take us through your request today.
Good evening. My name is Robert Dempster from Dempster
Designs and Image 360 representing Henry Ford Health.
Okay. And then you're, what,
what are you requesting for today?
We are, um, requesting that we erect a 20 foot wide
by 50 foot tall, a thousand square feet
temporary banner sign, higher than six feet
above the surface grade for a period of one year.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you for that description. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
wanting to speak on this item?
Not seeing any, or close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Ruts.
A question for the petitioner.
So the sign is gonna be up there for a whole one year.
Is it gonna be up and down various times? One
Year. Um,
and it will be facing parking lot.
It won't be facing, uh, a 12 mile there.
Yeah, it's for one year.
Is it a special purpose sign?
It's, it's the branding, the new branding of the hospital.
And, um, we're making aware of the community that we are,
that Henry Ford Health is now there. Okay,
Thank you.
So I've got a question.
'cause I, I see that the signs facing
south into the parking lot, so
you don't want this branding and all that facing 12 mile.
It's like, what's the reason
of it facing the parking lot instead of like,
Well, we had a few options
and it was the, the hospital that decided
that they would get more, their committee would get more
viewership that way
because the setback is quite a bit from 12 Mile
and there's not really an area that would be,
I mean, there could possibly be four or five places,
but they decided on this, this, uh, location.
Okay. Yeah.
'cause I mean, my opinion, it faces the parking lot.
I mean, that's a huge parking lot on the south side
of the building, so it really is.
Um,
Okay.
I have a question, sir. Yes, Mr. Clifft?
Good evening, sir. Hello.
Um, I'm, I'm seeing similar,
I'm seeing similar banners on most
of the Henry Ford facilities all over the region.
Um, and you may or may not know this,
but I'm just curious if their intent is to go ahead
and eventually maybe replace this with a more
permanent style sign in the future,
if you have any knowledge or can relate that to us.
That that's just, I'm just generally curious.
I've seen them pop up on almost every building they have
in, in Detroit.
And, uh, I I was just,
I'm just curious if they're gonna make this a permanent type
of thing or going forward or,
Well, there will be a permanent signs being,
they're being fabricated now.
The banners is for awareness, brand identity,
and, um, the aluminum signage
is being constructed now.
So they're applying, I'm sure they,
they may have already applied here.
That's a different company. Okay.
I understand. I'm, I'm, I'm in the banners
and the rebranding of the vehicles.
Very good. Understood. I appreciate it, sir. Thank you.
I have nothing further, sir.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Green? Yes. So I have a
Couple questions as I look at the backup.
Well, There are three signs right now at each
entrance identifying the hospital as Henry Ford Hospital.
Uh, And
you stated in your backup that the primary reason
for this particular sign is for the safety of the patients.
And if you look at the sign number one, it's very oversized.
I think it's un unreasonable
for a thousand square foot sign.
And it looks more like if you take a look at your backup
and you look at the sign, it looks more like an
advertisement than it is.
Uh, uh, what, what, what's implied in the backup?
Uh, the, it says we go for it.
It's about, looks to be about 60% of the sign,
and then on the bottom of the sign it says Henry Ford
Hospital, the smallest portion of the sign.
So I don't think that it
is doing what you're asking us
to approve here in the backup.
It surely doesn't have anything to do
with the safety of the patients.
Might have to do with branding,
but I think it's a pretty big sign.
And I think that the entrances are clearly marked
as Henry Ford Hospital and it's been a hospital forever.
So I just don't see how it's,
I I don't think it's gonna be a good look.
So my intention is
to vote no on this item. Thank you. Thank you,
Mr. Green.
If I may, it's we, I, no,
He did, did he, did you have a question
for a petition or you just sharing?
No, that was my, my question was, was,
and you answered my question by saying the sign is zero
for branding, it doesn't match the backup.
And that's, that's my concern.
Well, and I, I think it's way,
I I I'm just thinking it's way over size.
That's all. I just wanted to
Okay. Well, I,
I don't, uh,
is there three Henry Ford signs up there?
Last time I was by there, I don't,
I didn't see new signs quite yet. They
Were there this morning.
So I think that, I mean, that's a large area,
but this is, this is their branding and their identity.
Uh, not only patients, but there are visitors and people.
Um, even myself driving over there, I didn't know.
I knew it was a hospital,
but I didn't know what hospital it was.
And our, um, our branding
and our identity is this logo we put,
this is the ninth one.
Henry Ford is acquired nine hospitals from Ascension.
And this is the ninth hospital.
And we put, we've installed them on all the others
and, um, uh, to much success people.
You know, the older you get,
the harder it signs are very important to a community.
I'm big on, on signage and way finding is important.
When I drive back and I drove around that whole campus,
I think it's a good scale for it.
That's me. But I, so this is their identity.
And
So then maybe you could answer the question then is
you're, you state that the request is primarily due
to the safety of the patients.
I'm just curious how that sign does that
The safety of the patients
Says the request is primarily due
to the safety of the patients.
Well, I think it does.
And also I think it, uh, uh, involves their, their friends
and family people that bring it there, that bring people
to the hospital.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you Mr. Green.
Any other comments from the board members? Mr.
Chair? Yes, Mr. Lindsay?
I really don't have any issue with the sign itself.
Uh, my question to the petitioner, um, is more in relate
relation to why the, the temporary banner for one year.
I have more of an issue with the length of time.
Well, if we could have two years, we take two.
But one year seems to be fine enough.
That gives us time to fabricate the other signage
and people will know that, um,
there's an awareness, there's an identity.
I, yeah, I understand that.
I'm, I guess my, I'm not in the sign business,
but one year seems like a long time for a temporary banner.
I believe it's a lot longer than we normally have temporary
banners up, uh, in the city.
Um, so if this was to, you know, give you time to,
to install a permanent sign, I think that would be fine.
Um, but my issue's gonna be the, the length
of time you're requesting.
Well, there's quite an investment in putting
up that temporary banner.
And, um, I mean,
it's possible that we could bring it down once we have the
permanent signs up too, if that's an option.
So I think once that you see it, you're going
to, you'll like it.
You'll, uh, you'll, you'll like it.
That's all I had, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
See if I could just add on to Mr. Lindsay's comment.
'cause you know, I understand like brand identity,
taking over nine hospitals.
You wanna make sure everybody in the community knows these
ascension hospitals are now Henry Ford.
And since the signs facing the parking lot, I really do feel
I have no problems with the size of that temporary sign,
but I have a problem with it being for one year.
Yeah. You know, many temporary signs are, you know,
our ordinance allows 30 days.
I could actually agree to like, I think six months
for something like this of rebranding.
It works, but I, I think a year is too long.
But the size, I'm fine with
Mr. Chairman. Yes. Mr.
Cliff. Yes.
So I'm gonna echo the same sentiment on the length of time.
However, I am
curious if there's gonna be some, um,
major refit on the outside of that hospital, upgrades
to the facade or the facings.
Uh, and those are questions that only can be answered by,
by folks other than the petitioner standing before us.
'cause I'm sure he doesn't really have an
understanding of what's going on.
Again, take, they've taken over nine
and I see things happening at a few of them on the outside.
My guess would be, my guess would be that
that might be why they're asking for a year.
Um, But I consider maybe
I personally would consider getting behind a motion
to approve it for six months and then let them come back
and talk to us about what their plans are.
If they need to have it up longer
or want to have it up longer.
Or maybe at that point in time, Mr.
Dempster can relate to whoever he's working through
that, that was our feeling.
And we would like to hear from somebody from the hospital
itself to maybe explain why the, the length
of time is in their eyes necessary.
If, if I've made any sense with my comment, I could get
behind a six month on this,
but I, I couldn't get behind a whole year.
I'd be more comfortable with That.
I'd be comfortable with that too.
Oh, is that Mr. Suer right here? Comment for you. I,
Yeah, I'd be comfortable with six months.
'cause how long long would it take
to get the permanent sign? I mean,
Well, I, I'm pretty well, I'm pretty sure
that they're gonna, uh, the,
the new signs will probably be in the same locations.
I don't, they're not planning on putting a
permanent sign back there.
They may approach you. I I haven't heard anything like that.
So this is something to, once again, it's branding.
Um, we let the community know they pay a lot
of advertising on television
and they really care about the community.
They hire a lot of employees
and they take care of this community.
So all they're looking for is they,
they don't want it longer up there unless you would like it.
But it's just to have people.
This place is new, it's exciting
and it's a, a premium hospital system
and we're lucky to have it here in Michigan.
So I represent them and I'm sure happy that I work for 'em.
'cause they're a great, great, uh, hospital system.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Green.
I don't think anybody's debating whether it's
good hospital system or not.
I'm sure it is. But
what we're gonna do here is he's mentioned
that they're gonna do come with some other signage
and 32 feet is our ordinance.
So if we approve a thousand foot sign now,
we're kind of saying thousand foot signs are okay.
In my mind. So that's, that's a concern I have.
Mr. I don't think there are banner
because any signage on the property for entrance exit,
that's a different package.
You know that this is a temporary banner.
Uh, it doesn't affect the signs on
the property or the amount of,
Again, my point was our ordinance is 32
feet and this is a thousand.
So temporary or not, it's
very oversized. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Chairman, that's my opinion.
Yes. Mr. Ruts. I I I would agree. That's huge.
I don't see your as a temporary, I see a, a temporary
as 30 days, 60 days, something like that.
And they're worried about branding that.
They want everybody to know that it's there.
What else is there?
There's not another hospital in the city.
There used to be seven. There's none other there.
You're gonna, the hospital, you're gonna be going to 12
and Hoover to whatever name it is this year.
It's changed so many times. I, I, I would agree.
I mean, I would go maybe six months,
but enough's enough.
And, and the same with the size.
I mean the size, it's an issue to me too.
I mean, because if we do it for them,
we're gonna have to do it for the next one.
We're setting dangerous precedence is when we do this.
Mm-hmm. That's all I got. Yeah,
Of course. My 2 cents
there is, it doesn't set any precedence.
'cause every property is unique.
Their next door neighbor could ask for something similar.
It's a separate property.
There is no precedence saying that you allowed our neighbor
to do something you don't have.
That's not a precedence.
We'll discuss that in another item.
Okay. Yes, that's right. But anyway, so it
Sounds, I'd like the board to know they're not worried.
Henry Ford Hospital, they're, they're excited to be here.
They wanna do the right thing.
So everything in your decision making,
this is a positive thing.
I'm in the sign business. It's a good thing.
And we don't want to have it up there any longer
than it has to be.
We want a year. We're seeking a year.
If it's six months, that's fine. But this is a good thing.
If I could just interrupt. So basically, I mean,
based on the comments I hear, it sounds like
there is support for six months.
And then I guess, you know, if
after six months, if you can make a case as
to why you should get another six months, then you can make
that case at that time.
But I don't think there's any support here
for more than six months.
So,
You Know, uh, does somebody wanna make a motion
or is there any further discussion or
Make some motion? Yeah,
John, Uh, Mr.
Chair, I'd like to make a motion, uh,
to grant the petitioner, um, permission
to erect a 20 foot wide by 50 foot tall, uh,
thousand square feet.
Temporary banner sign higher than six feet
above surface grade for a period
of no longer than six months.
Uh, due to, it won't be a detriment to the area
and size the safe of the lot.
I'll support that. Okay.
So we have a motion by Mr. Lindsey, support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the petitioner's request
for a period of six months. I'll roll call vote.
Mr. Lindsey. Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff votes Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts?
Yes. Mr. Green?
No. Our ordinance is 32 feet.
This is a thousand square feet.
The property can be used as zone.
The property is not unique and, uh, it's not necessary.
Chairman, Mr. I just for a reason stated in the motion.
So the request was granted for a period of six months.
Um, for that banner.
Thank you very much. Have a great
Evening. You too.
Thank you. Okay, that takes us
to item number eight.
Let me catch up here. Mm-hmm.
That's fine.
That department is Paul Bko. 1 3 6 2 2
Oh. Actually, if you just wait
one moment for him to read off.
Item first.
Item number eight, Paul Senio. Did I get it right?
Bko is fine. Thank you, sir. Uh, representative is same, uh,
13 6 22.
Edwin is the address.
The variance that's requested is
two part number one to erect the 10 foot
by 14 foot 140 square foot.
Gazebo number two is to waive the required
four inch slab
with a 24 inch rat wall for the gazebos foundation.
Okay. So if you could just, uh, state your name
and address for the record and then take
us through your request.
Sure. Paul Biko, 1 3 6 2 2.
Edwin Court, Warren, Michigan, 4 8 0 8 8.
For about 10 years now, we've had a 10 by 12,
a hundred square foot, 120 square foot cloth,
top gazebo in the backyard.
Um, we've, we've had, I think we've had two of them.
And, uh, they wear out after a while.
The canvas top, you know, gets, gets,
uh, sun damage and everything.
Uh, last summer with the big windstorm,
the wind blew the cover off of, of that, uh, of that,
uh, gazebo.
So we're looking for a new one.
And we look, we found one a little bit larger, 10 by 12,
which, or 10 by 14, which is under 40 square feet.
20 square more, 20 square feet.
More than the, uh, than the, than the,
uh, than the city allows.
And it's a hard top gazebo.
And we'd like to install that in place of that damaged, uh,
10 by 12, 120 square foot gazebo.
Okay. Thank you for that description.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
I'm not seeing any
or close the public portion of the meeting
and turn over to the board for discussion.
So I, I mean, um, I just, I have one question, Mr. Pierce.
There's, uh, oh yes, there's one I needs to read.
There's, um, there's an impact statement.
If you could read that into the record. Mr.
Cliff? Yeah. This is dated March 31st, 2025 to,
uh, multiple folks.
Uh, secretary of the Board of Appeals, Mr. Murphy and Mr.
Schumann from Mr.
Wirth, uh, referenced 13,622 Edwin,
the 140 square foot gazebo and wave slab slash rat wall.
The statement reads, as per, uh, article 20 Board of Appeal,
section 20.29, impact statement from the planning director.
I have been requested to review the above mentioned item
for its impact on the city's general planning principles
and other related issues.
My responsibility is to consider the effect
of the variance request on pedestrian
and vehicular circulation, off street parking,
structural relationship, public utilities,
landscaping accessibility,
and other site element designs, site design elements.
When a petitioner requests a variance
to a zoning ordinance regulation, it's my responsibility
to consider the overall impact
of the variances on a budding local, general
and public as a factor to be considered
after review of this request, no issues were found
to impact the abutting local or general public.
It is with this observation that I provide my opinion.
Should you have any questions,
please contact me at the planning department
with his telephone number.
Uh, that was, uh, put together by Mr.
Wirth and Mr. Crabtree.
Thank you Mr. Cliff? Yes, sir.
Uh, sir, close the public portion
of the meeting turned over to board.
So I've got a question. So you're the, it was evil
that you had the 10 by 12, was that on the, is
that block patio existing?
Is that what you have back there? Yeah. Yeah.
So it's not something new that's being built.
That's the one that No, that's
Been there for 10 years or so at least.
Okay.
So, uh, Everett,
can you approach the podium for a second please?
So the question I've read I have is
'cause I see Ron saying that there's no issues
that they saw from planning.
So a block, um, patio,
they don't need to build a block patio with a wrap wall
or any of that if they're just,
or I guess I was trying to understand,
Those are the current blocks.
Currently it's held down.
We've always had it held down by cinder blocks like this.
It's currently had. And, uh, once I get it up, we'll find,
decide how to drill it down, how
to secure it down. Okay. I'm sorry.
So the patio itself, without a structure on it,
that's, that's all right.
It's when you put that structure over it.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
No, 'cause I was just trying to think. 'cause like you hit,
Thank You. So
if, so, if they,
because the 10 by 12 gazebo, that would've been there.
10 by 12 is allowed. So he would not need any permit.
So he would not have
what he wouldn't need? No, he wouldn't. Well,
Well, so the 10 by 12 would have
Required a permit? Well, the per the permit,
but not the
No, there's no variance.
Right. So when that one went up,
they wouldn't have needed, was there a request
for a wrap wall at that time?
Or is that was considered
Well, the ones that he had were canvas.
I, I haven't looked it up. I don't know if Brian did.
I don't know that he ever had a permit for those.
The, If it's not the kind one, the poles that you take,
you know, take down at the end of summer
and put back up, then it should have had a permit.
If it stays there all the time,
it's permanent, it should add a permit.
Okay. I I always get honest so that the board,
I always get confused because you know, now when,
when you go to, you know, home Depot, Menards,
or any of those stores, they have these large canvases
and instead of just being a little cloth roof,
now they've become a hard, hard roof.
It's like they're very different. Um, Mr.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Green.
Then Mr. Watts, did you have a comment
or I will, go ahead.
So I, I'm just curious
because I, so this particular, they're cool looking.
Did, did, uh, no, I'm gonna ask you a question.
I'm sorry. Your name again?
Uh, Everett Murphy. I'm the chief
zoning Inspector. Alright.
It's for the audience. I'm new, so I,
that's why I didn't know it was.
So the, uh, does a thing like that with just the screens
that doesn't have walls.
So would it require a rat wall?
Is that, I mean, is that a dumb question that the way
You were saying, say threes. Right.
All such accessory structures.
So it, it encompasses all of them.
So if it has a roof over it, it's a structure.
So it did the roof is what the determining factor is.
Got it. Interesting. Mr. Watts, you had a comment?
He actually answered my question. That would be an ask.
So I'm good. Two for one.
Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr. Cliff.
So in my line of work, I deal
with rat problems all the time.
I don't find rats underneath structures that are open
and don't have walls.
I haven't yet. And I've been doing it for a number of years.
Um, I reserve my opinion on the
ordinance for another time.
All I can tell you is that in my experience dealing,
and I think I've mentioned this
before, when these come up in my experience, dealing
with these type of structures and the foundations
or whatever that they're on, unless they're a wood deck.
Now if they're a wood deck that stands up off the ground,
then you got prob you might have problems there, right?
Mm-hmm. But a, a paper block patio or,
or a concrete patio,
or even if it's just sitting on approved footing,
sunk into the ground and bolted down
and it's grassy underneath, I, I have never,
I have never encountered rodents in one
of these types of structures.
And with that, I'll yield the floor.
Okay. Thank you. Any other comments,
discussion, or any motions?
Mr. Chairman? I'd like
to make a motion if no other member has any comment.
Okay. Please do. Mr. Cliff.
I'd like to grant permission to number one, erect the 10
by 14, 140 square foot gazebo.
And number two, rave rave.
Waive the required four inch slab with a 24 inch rat wall
for the gazebos foundation.
I don't believe it to be a detriment to the area
and I think it'll be an enhancement to the neighborhood
Support.
So we have a motion by Mr.
Cliff to support Mr. Lindsey
to approve the request for the re.
State and motion. Motion.
Mr. Cliff votes? Yes. For the reasons stated the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reason stated Mr. Chairman?
Uh, yes. For reason stated motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you very much. Enjoyed in new gaze.
Will I get a, something in the mail or how will IY Yeah,
and if not, you can always contact the building
department, but yes.
Very good. Thank you. Number nine
takes this item number nine.
Boy, they're really hitting me hard
with the names tonight, guys.
Item number nine, applicant
Awad Yohanna.
Was I close? Thank you, sir.
Representative is the same. Sure.
Uh, 3 0 8 2 3 Bowie Bowie Street.
Yes. Uh, variance that is being requested is to, um,
retain a widened driveway.
Yeah. Uh, I'm sorry to retain. That's okay.
A widened driveway 10. Here I go again. Take three.
Retain a widen driveway.
12 feet beyond the edge of the garage in the front yard.
Yeah, that's how the variance Sure reads.
There is an impact statement
for this when you're ready for it, Mr. Chairman.
Um, yeah. But, but first, um, sure.
So the petitioner, if you can say your name. My
Name. My name is Fuad
Yana.
3 0 8 2 3 Bowie Drive.
And I would like to, uh, ask the board, uh, I would like to,
uh, reschedule it for the next meeting if it's all possible.
Uh, I'm, I mean, I'm fine
'cause I mean, based on the shortage of our members today.
Uh, would somebody make a motion?
Yeah, I'll make a motion to reschedule.
You want the next meeting, sir? The 23rd?
Yes. 23rd. Yes. 23rd.
I make a motion to reschedule item number nine
for 2 0 8 2 3 Bowie Street to our next regular meeting,
which is April 23rd, 2025.
Support. So you have a motion
and support to reschedule this item to the 23rd.
Uh, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Is anybody opposed?
Uh, so we have one opposed?
There opposed, uh, with five to one, it,
this will be rescheduled to the 23rd Uhhuh,
but I wanted to say since that's only two weeks away, Uhhuh,
that there's not gonna be any new reposting or anything.
So this is your notification that you're on the 23rd? Yeah.
And if there's anybody in the audience that came
to speak on this item, this is your notification for that.
Also, just due to the sort of,
So this is the notification.
That's it. I'll, I'll, I'll make a note of it. Yeah.
The April, April 23rd. April 23rd
At 7 32 weeks. Yes. Yeah.
Thank you so much. Thank you. Goodnight.
Okay.
And while Mr. Cliff's getting caught up, so
for all board members,
please retain this for the next package.
'cause you're not gonna get a new copy of this one.
Thank you. Uh, See
Mr.
Shawn, did you, Mr. Oh, Mr. Su, thank
You.
It's gonna take us to item number 10.
Item number 10. Warren Woods
Tower Booster Club.
Uh, Mr.
Jason Chamberlain is representing 13,412 Mile Road.
Okay. So you can just state your name and address.
Wait a minute, I gotta read. Oh
Yeah, that's Hang. Hi, Jason
Chamberlain. 1, 2, 9 6 7. You
Just left for just one second. So
Hold. Oh, sorry. My bad.
We've never done this before.
So we'd like to, uh,
uh, the, the requested variance on this item
for number 10 is
to conduct the annual spring fare in the parking lot.
That's the parking lot of the address you gave us, right?
Yeah. It's the Warren Woods, uh, middle
School from the parking lot from Friday, may the 16th,
2025 through May the 18th of 2025
during the hours of,
for May 16th, 2025, which is a Friday,
4:00 PM to 12:00 AM that translates
to 12 midnight on
May 17th, 2025, which is Saturday.
They wish to go from 12:00 PM noon
to 12:00 AM midnight.
And on May 18th, 2025, which is Sunday, they wish
to operate from 12:00 PM noon to
11:00 PM the music
to be lowered at 10:00 PM each night.
And there's an impact statement for this item.
So now if you could state your name, address,
and then what your request is, or,
Yeah. Jason Chamberlain.
I'm the Vice President of the Warren Woods
Tower, uh, booster Club.
Uh, I live at 1 2 9 6 7 Jan Drive, Warren, 4 8 0 8 8.
Okay. Uh, so this is our annual Mayfair.
Uh, we come every year, uh, to get the variance
to hold the Mayfair in the middle schools parking lot.
Um, this is a big, uh, uh, big event for us to raise money
to help the kids at the high school
and throughout our district, uh, through, you know,
fundraising and things like that.
So. Okay. I know we, we come every year
and, uh, it's been, I think this is, uh,
somewhere near 40 years.
It's been going on there, so,
Okay. Thank you for that
explanation.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there for the audience wanting to speak on this item,
not seeing any or,
and the public portion of the meeting,
it turned over to the board.
Well, before that, I mean, Mr.
Clifton, if you could just read the public impact statement.
Yes, sir. I have another impact statement.
This one's also dated March 31st, uh, from Mr. Wirth.
Uh, The pair,
the two preliminary paragraphs I go from the last reading,
I'm not gonna go over those again.
Um, Mr. Wirth states in the impact statement that
after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local or general public.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Cliff.
So at that point, I turn it over to the board.
I I just thought you wanted to start out by stating,
you know, Warren Woods Booster Club has
had this year after year.
If you take a look at what's been approved the last two
years, this is identical to the wording that,
that they've always approved.
And we can see there are no neighbors.
Nobody complains about it,
which is always a good sign when there's no complaints.
You know, this is my, my fourth
year representing the booster club.
Uh, I have one more left.
Uh, my, my youngest graduates next year,
my one this year and one the year after.
So Mr. Green, you, I actually went
to Hazel Park High School. There
You go. Trying
to see out there. Yeah, sorry.
I came right from baseball.
I coached baseball at the tower also,
so I came right from baseball games. So
Are there any other comments, discussion,
or on the board? Any motions, Mr.
Chair? I'd like to make a motion. Yes,
Mr. Lindsay?
I'd like to grant permission, uh,
to conduct the annual spring fair in the parking lot from
Friday, May 16th, 2025
through May 18th, 2025 during the hours of
May 16th, 2025, Friday from 4:00 PM to 12:00 AM
midnight 5 17 25.
That's May 17th, 2025.
Saturday 12:00 PM to 12:00 AM midnight
and May 18th, 2025 on Sunday, 12:00 PM
to 11:00 PM in the music
to be lowered at 10:00 PM each night.
Uh, it's not a detriment to the area.
Um, it's something that we, you know, have seen in the city
that it's, I think it's an enhancement as well.
Support. Okay.
Is that Mr. Assessor?
Yes. Is so we have a motion by Mr. Lindsay, support by Mr.
Assessor to approve the request
for the reasons stated recall.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reasons
Stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reasons stated a motion. Mr.
Cliff votes? Yes. Chairman, Mr.
I vote yes. So your request has been approved.
Uh, good luck with this year's fair and
Thank you very much. Make
Some money. Thank you.
It brings us to item number 11. Mr. Daniel Crippin.
Representative is Mr. Daniel Crippin.
The common description address of 2 2 5 3 4 Beck
variances that are being requested are
to replace 190 feet
of damaged six foot high chain link fence along Beck
and 285 feet
along Fisk,
and to retain the remaining sections
of six foot chain link fence
that are all in the front setback.
And there is an impact
statement. When you're ready, sir. Okay.
Could you state your name and address
and then what your request is?
My name's Dan Crippen.
I live at 2 8 2 1 6 Newport Drive in Warren, Michigan,
4 8 0 8 8.
And I'm representing bar processing at 2 2 5 3 4
Beck Highway in Warren, Michigan.
4 8 0 0 9, uh, 4 8 0 8 9.
And, um, we're requesting a variance to, uh,
replace an existence existing deteriorated fence, um,
In, in lieu of moving it back as current code states to
behind the front of the building.
Uh, the reasons for this is we need the space
for daily operation.
We process steel. We, uh, process large bundles of steel
and we need places to store them
and move them around in our yard.
We do have space in the back
where we could additionally stack if we were
to shrink our front and inside yard.
But there are residents back there
and we're trying to be a good neighbor
and we only put stuff back there for long-term storage.
Okay, thank you for that explanation.
Um, this is a public hearing.
Is there any members in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Not seeing any, uh, Mr.
Cliff, do you wanna read the impact statement?
Yes, Mr. Chairman may bear with me. It's a little lengthy.
Uh, the first two paragraphs, again,
mimic the one I read earlier into the record.
Um, this is from Mr. Wirth and Mr.
Crabtree. Uh, on April 8th, 2025,
the planning staff conducted an inspection of the site
based on the approved site plan.
Granted approval by the Planning Commission
on February 11th, 2013.
As a result of this, of the, as a result of the inspection,
the planning staff determined
that the site is not in compliance
with the approved site plan.
The following issues were found
and observed by the planning staff during the inspection.
Item number one, a fuel tank is located
between the east side of the building
and the east property line,
which abuts residential dwellings.
A variance may be required to retain this tank.
Two, there are large, tall piles of dirt
and gravel in the southwest corner of the site
in an area only designated for paving.
Sorry,
I stand corrected. Madam
Attorney is correct. I miss, miss Misstated.
I'll read the item number. Two or item number two.
In the, in the listing, again, there is a large, tall pile
of dirt and gravel in the southeast corner of the,
of the site in an area only designated for paving.
Number three, per the approved site plan,
There are 10 passenger parking spaces
to be located along the east side of the building
near the driveway entrance to Fisk Avenue.
In place of the required parking spaces is open storage
of various materials and construction vehicles.
Number four, in the area to the east of the building,
along the east side of the building, and along the east
and north property lines, there is open storage
of various materials, pallets, machinery, dumpsters,
and debris that was not approved on the site.
Plan number five, per the approved site plan, the area
to the east of the building is to be paved.
However, only gravel currently exists,
the planning department recommends this item be postponed
and referred back to the zoning division
for further inspections and code enforcement.
And to determine and to determine
what further variances shall be required
to bring the site into compliance
with the approved site plan.
Any changes the petitioner wishes to make to the site
and site plan shall require a revised site plan.
Should this item be heard by the board,
the planning staff recommends that slats be added
to the proposed chain link fence in order
to adequately shield the open storage
of materials from public view.
You. That concludes the impact statement.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Cliff.
I close the public portion
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
I actually, um, I mean, I understand needs
of replacing damaged fence,
but based on what we heard from planning,
I honestly do not think we should hear
the, this is just my thing.
I don't think we should hear this item today
because it sounds like we need
to have a new updated site plan that makes
through the planning process
and that can address some of these findings that Mr.
Goth stated in the, in his assessment letter.
That's my opinion. I don't know
what the other board members, if you're in agreement
or I would echo that.
I I'm okay with that, but I did have some questions
of Mr. Murphy if, if
That's possible. Mr. Murphy, can
you approach the podium?
So I was looking at the documents included in our packet,
and it looks like dated way back to like 2015.
A certificate of compliance was never applied, was, was not,
um, had not been applied for.
And then it shows that it was applied,
but it doesn't show that they ever got the
CER certificate of compliance.
So I guess I'm wondering where we're at on that.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna check with Brian. He,
he did the research on that.
Okay. All right. Okay.
Fair enough. That's good. Thank you. He said it was cleared.
Yeah.
Thank you. Thanks,
Mr. Chairman. Yes,
Mr. Cliff, anybody else has any comment?
I guess I'll make a motion to, uh, table
To a date unknown based on the need for a site plan.
Yeah. Date to be determined. Okay.
Is there support for that? I'll support it.
Okay. So we have a motion by Mr.
Clifft, support by Mr. Watts to postpone this item to a date
to be determined based on a need
of updated site plan through planning.
Um, do you wanna take a roll call, vote on that or,
Yes, I will. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Cliff votes yes.
On the, for the reasons stated, um, Mr. Watts?
Yes. Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Uh, Mr. Green?
Yes. Mr. Lindsay?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the
Motion. Mr. Or
I'm sorry, chairman, Mr. Yes.
Yes. To table for the reasons stated.
So basically, this board tabled your item
pending a new site plan.
So what I would recommend is, uh, if you talk to Mr.
Murphy's department, that he can explain
what the steps are for that.
And then once you have a new site plan that's approved,
then you'll be back right in front
of us. Okay? Okay. Thank you.
You're welcome. Thanks, Mr. Item number 12? Number 12.
I think we Need to keep it.
Item number 12,
applicant's Alex Hanno, representative as same.
Alex Hanno,
32 1 50 Dender?
Yes, sir. Variance requested is to erect a 53 inch
by 103 inch,
37.91 square foot wall mounted
electronic message center sign.
That is, that is 100% digital display area.
Um, yes.
Uh, so if you could just state your name
and address for the record and then explain.
Good afternoon. My name is Alex Hanno.
I'm representing Kelly Car Wash on, uh, 3 2 1 5 0 Dund Road.
I live on, uh, 4 8 6 8 Vineyards
Boulevard, Southern Heights, Michigan.
Um, I'm requesting a variance for this sign
because I mean, you're legally allowed.
Square footage I believe is 30 or 25, something like that.
But ours is a little bit over that,
and I was wondering if we could get the go
to put a little bit larger one due to this.
The distance of our building from the street.
Okay. Thank you. Uh, this is a public hearing.
Are any members of the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Not seeing any, uh, Mr. Cliff?
There is a impact statement to be read.
Yes, Mr. Chairman, Uh,
Comments of the impact statement are
after review of the request, the following issues were found
to impact the abutting local or general public.
It is recommended of the planning.
It is the recommendation of the planning department
that this variance request be denied.
The petitioner's reasoning
and the application for the variance request
of making the city of Warren look more modern
and giving it that extra ling does not demonstrate a
reasonable hardship or burden.
Also, the west side of the building
where the proposed digital sign would be placed
as approximately 200 feet from Quida Road, the size
of the proposed sign combined
with the distance from the passing vehicles traveling along
to Quinter, would prohibit this sign from being clearly seen
by passing motorists.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Clerk for reading that.
So I'll close the public portion
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
And I just wanted to start out with a question. Yeah.
Uh, personally, I'm not in favor of a LED sign,
this big being the only sign there,
but the only people have a LED sign
because they're gonna be cha changing it.
If you're what?
I mean, with that being your only sign,
what are you gonna, like, what would you be changing
that sign to or what, I mean,
I imagine are your specials or stuff, but then
Yeah, we do have specials.
But then you won't have the name of your
business on the sign.
No, it won't be showing the name of our business.
People know the name of the business from the sign already
up on the street up by the sidewalk.
But this is gonna like, promote our specials
and when we, uh, get a new equipment in later on this year,
and when we put in like monthly plans,
which we're offering soon, late this year
and early next year, we're gonna put those in.
So we want like, people to know on the street,
okay, we got this special.
Especially 'cause the car wash hasn't been doing that good,
like within the last few years,
You know? 'cause I,
I do, I mean, I drive down D that way always.
I mean, as I, as I would be thinking like,
most passengers are gonna be driving down the street,
the sign being flat like that on the building.
It's not gonna be easy for people to see, first
of all, in my opinion.
You know, it's like, um,
if you wanna advertise your business, I don't think
that's, I don't know.
I'm just, I'm person not totally in favor of this.
And I think having an LED sign that big,
it being the only sign there, I, I,
I personally am not in favor of that
To, to be fair. I mean, it's
up on the hill, which
is like already hard to see.
But I mean, thankfully we have a stoplight,
like right in front of the car wash where people stop
and, you know, they could look at their surroundings
and take a look at our wash.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I I I know it's an industrial area.
You've got all the storage of RVs over there
and the one area you've got all the other stuff.
It's just, uh, I don't know.
Other comments from the board members? Mr. Chair? Yeah.
So Mr. Green, then,
Mr. Lindsay, I think you had a comment too.
Would you say that what you're trying to do
with this sign is, is to, is branding, you're trying
to bring attention and brand your product?
Thank You. Pretty much. Yeah.
I just promote our specials. Yeah.
Mr. Yeah, I,
I think I shared some of the same thoughts.
Um, I really don't have an issue with, with the size
of the sign, if it's lighted, um, the LEDs, um,
I'm usually not in favor of, of LED signs.
I don't really wanna see those continue to, um,
be a thing, uh, in the city.
I think they are distracting.
I think they are a detriment, uh, to the, to the area.
Um, so I'm not really in favor of the LED sign here.
Any other comments?
See, I guess, because my question is like, I,
the reason I'm not in favor of that.
'cause you still have, there is that sign
that says car wash by the sidewalk?
I know, correct? No, there is no one there or
There's nothing as of now just,
it just says car wash and that's it.
Kelly car wash, just a street sign.
Okay. But, but there is a sign by the street
that's there isn't anymore.
I thought there used to be a sign
There. No.
Okay.
See, 'cause I would think if you're advertising the car
wash, there's that grass area
between their asphalt and the sidewalk.
Yeah. I would think a sign that is perpendicular
to the street over there, advertising car washes, one.
That makes sense. I mean, um,
Um, I'm not in favor of this time,
but any other comments or motions?
Well, I've got a question, Mr. Chairman?
Yes. Mr. Cliff, sir, how, how often,
how often would this sign be?
How often would this sign be, um, like refreshing
or changing its message?
Um,
Not very often. I mean,
it's completely up to you guys what you allow me
to put on that sign, whether it's video
or picture or moving text.
I mean, I'll comply with whatever you guys tell me.
If you even grab me the permission to put this sign.
But you, I can even put a timer on it to be on
for certain hours of the day, you know, when it's necessary.
Well, where I'm at, where I'm at with it is
that it's such, it's such a, it's so far from the road.
And my concern is that if it's eye grabbing
and it's, which is what you want,
I, I understand what you want.
You want eye grabbing, you want attention getting,
you want to promote your business.
But yeah. Um, my thing is that when people are traveling
around and that thing flashes or does something
and it's just, it's a little overly distracting
because that's a far way to look.
It'll occupy your time.
I, I I'm just afraid that's more of a detriment
to traffic travel than, than anything else.
Something like that with a slow changing message down it on
the berm down there, out by the road
where you're not looking, turning your head 40
degrees or whatever to see it.
I could get behind something like that, but,
but, uh, I, I see this
as being maybe a little overtly distracting.
Um,
Uh, I understand what it is that you're trying to do,
but I just wanted to throw my opinion on there
and I'll yield the floor with that.
And if I could just add on to Mr. Cliff's comment.
See, because if it's a sign on a building like that,
I'd be more in favor of a permanent type of sign.
Regular, a regular sign.
Because I, I personally think if you're even
to advertise like, um, specials
or any of that kind of stuff, I would think
like a monument sign
by the sidewalk within the proper spacing.
I mean, but a monument sign that says name
of the car wash on top,
and then you can have a smaller l smaller LED section
underneath it that you can have your specials.
That I can understand because then as you're driving north
or south on Dender, you easily see that sign.
But a complete LED sign on the building, I just,
I don't like a complete a sign being only LED
because we don't have control over what the sign says.
And I don't know, that's just my 2 cents.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Wats.
So are you saying there is no sign by the road?
Like, uh, you mean like just Car wash sign?
There is, Oh,
There. Okay. 'cause I'm
looking at Google Maps
and there's a big sign, but down by the road,
Because I thought I saw one. It,
It says, uh, free vacuums car wash.
I don't know, maybe the price changed $4, blah, blah, blah.
That's about it. Yeah, that's the one.
I mean, I kind of agree with the comments.
I mean, I personally, I like LED signs,
but when they're flashing like red
or blue like they do in some of these places,
it really grabs your attention and it's distracting.
So
I have a question. So
I mean, other cities are different.
I mean, I, I haven't had a problem
with, uh, Clinton Township.
They let me pull a sign out
and put it and everything like that.
What appalls you guys
so much from like allowing a sign like this
to be put up in your city?
I think every city has different ordinances
that they, that were written.
And, um, so,
and you know, part of what our ordinances are
that the digital display area
of a LED sign should not be more than 25%
of your total permitted sign area.
So we don't allow a hundred percent.
I mean, 'cause if, if you had a sign
and only 25% of it was LED,
you don't even need our approval or permission.
It's when you go over that 25%, um, you know,
so any know every city, the ordinances are written
by different people, different areas, different.
Yeah. So it's, he didn't really compare one city to another.
There. I'm not
Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr.
Cliff.
And for me it's an enforcement issue.
Um, it's too easy to change.
Speed up the change of the message, keep the intensity high.
There's, there's just, uh,
there's lack of, there's, there's really lack of control.
You approve something like this
and it takes somebody coming along maybe recognizing
that it's out of ordinance for one, one reason or another.
It, it could, it could sit there
and do things that it's not supposed to do
for a long period of time.
If somebody doesn't, somebody doesn't catch it.
Um, something like this,
when they're added to Monument signs
or in incorporation
with Monument signs advertising out in front
of the building, I, that, that's a,
to me it's a whole different ball game of being.
I just, I just can't feel, I,
I just can't get behind this one. I'll yield the flow of
That.
Thank you. Any other comments from the
board? Any motions or
Mr. Chair, if there's no
other comments,
uh, I'd like to make a motion.
Yes, Mr. Motion to deny, uh,
the erection of a 53 inch by 103 inch
totaling 37.91 square foot wall-mounted
electronic message center sign.
That is 100% digital display area.
So that's,
So we have a motion by Mr.
Lindsay's support of Mr. Assessor. Um,
Uh, for reasons, um, I don't think it's necessary
and I do think it's a detriment to the area.
Okay. Thank you. Um, Mr. Cliff Pro.
Call Mr. Lindsay. Uh, yes. To deny
Mr. Assessor
Yes. To deny
Mr. Watts? Yes. To
Deny Mr. Green? Yes.
To deny Mr. Cliff Foltz? Yes.
To deny Chairman Reitz.
I also vote yes to deny.
So unfortunately, your request today was denied by report,
but based on some of the comments I heard,
I think it might be worthwhile to look into maybe improving
or making changes to your existing car wash sign that's
by the road.
And maybe you can find a way to make
that a more appealing sign
and maybe get a message board added onto that
or something that's just thank you for your time.
Okay.
Brings this to, uh, item number 13. Lemme get
Caught up here.
Item number 13, baker
and Associates Realty Group LLC represented
by, uh, Faye Baker.
Looks like the address to this, uh,
item is gonna be assigned after a parcel split,
but the current parcel number is 12 dash 13 dash 33
dash 2 76 dash five
lot 7 56 on Packard Avenue.
And what we're here tonight for is we're looking for
permission to construct a single family residence,
number one with a 30 foot rear setback.
Number two, without staggering front building line
two feet from adjacent lots.
And number three with 35% lot coverage.
Okay, so petitioner, if you could start with your name
and address for the record and then the
reasons for your request.
So you want my home address
or you want the address of the building?
Either works. Okay.
So Fay Baker, uh, the address has not been determined,
but we do have the new parcel number.
It's
12 13 33 2 7 6 0 2 7,
and it's lot 7 56.
Okay. And then the re request
of if you wanna explain your request or,
Yes. So the request
is to, um, have the setback
for a single family detached home to be, uh,
30 in the rear instead of the 35.
And we're requesting, I'm sorry, instead of the, the 25, um,
we are also requesting that the, um, we don't have
to stagger the front lines by the two feet.
Um, and also 35% lot coverage instead of the 30 so
that we can have a house that's more appealing to, um,
the current, uh, market.
Uh, for sale. Our goal is
to increase home ownership in South Warren.
And this house will allow us to do that.
Um, the lots are smaller, which means that, you know,
you can, you have to be very strategic on
how you place things there, um,
because most people want a garage on their home as well.
And so increasing the coverage, um, will allow us
to put a house that fits today's families and increase, uh,
and encourage people to move to, um, south Warren
with home ownership.
Mr. Chair, before we move on, point of clarification.
Ma'am, can you read the last three digits of
that parcel number for me?
Since it does differ from
what we have on the paperwork in front of us?
I think we're gonna need to include that in our motion.
Okay. It's 0 2 7 0 2 7. Yes,
It was just assigned, um, uh, late last month.
Okay, thank you. Okay.
Okay. So, uh, thank you for that explanation.
Um, this item is a public hearing
or is there members of the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Okay. What?
No, not seeing any
or close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to your board for discussion.
Uh, I just, I've got a question.
I mean, I understand that, I mean,
we're about the setbacks and all this kind of stuff.
How large is the house that's being built
there? Is there a square footage?
Yes. And not including, the garage is 1252, um,
including the garage.
We're at 1516 and the garage is two 60.
Uh, so the, the actual size, the square foot
of the home itself is 1248.
Okay. And it's, it gonna be a one,
it's a one story house or two
Story house, or one story house.
'cause you know, in, in cases like this that come
before us, I know I personally would always love if we saw,
you know, picture of what the house was gonna look like
or, you know, to have an idea other than just
the measurements of, um,
I, well I have it on my phone.
Oh, you do, but you guys, I was, I have to wait
until it gets approved
before I can actually get the drawings and things like that.
But, um, they're single family, uh, detached homes,
one car attached garage, um, open floor plan,
three bedrooms, uh, two full bathrooms, uh,
with laundry on the first floor.
Um, we are also making it, um, with
A basement. Does the house,
is the house gonna
have a basement or a slab or,
Well, so right now it depends on 'cause how cost go,
but we desire to have some on basements
and maybe some on crawl.
We want people to be able to age in place.
So we also have like the zero barrier entry.
Um, so that older people who desire to buy a home there,
they can, or people who, who as they age,
they can stay in their home longer.
So we have the wider doors, we have, um, the zero entry,
uh, barrier to get into the home.
Um, and also of course, like I said, attached car garage
to make it more appealing to, uh, buyers.
Okay. So, uh, other question.
'cause I feel life of me was trying to remember that
that large parcel, what, does anybody remember what,
what was on that large parcel
that this is being separated from?
I guess I'm trying to remember.
You said what was the parcel?
Yeah, like that property, like
It was a school. Oh, that's right. Okay.
So you're just building one house
or are you gonna be developing all these parcels?
Yes. Okay.
So the other parcels, you're are being, you don't,
are being sold off to other people?
Or do you have any idea
What those are? No. Um, so
a couple, some
of the parcels will have colonial homes.
And because the footprint is smaller,
it fits in the current, um, building envelope.
So those don't require a variance.
But in order to include ranch style houses for people
who don't want colonials, um,
typically people don't like to do stairs.
Mm-hmm. Uh, so, uh, we wanna be able to, um, appeal
to a wide range of buyers
and the smaller lots, um,
as its zone does not allow us to do that.
Okay. And
Reason why I ask those questions,
'cause I know at the southern end of the city, a lot
of the lots are smaller.
Mm-hmm. So you can't always have the, you know, the setbacks
that you can have in other parts of the city.
Uh, and the reason I was asking about what kind
of home was being built there,
because, you know, I've seen
builders put homes in small lots in other parts of the city
where they put a house place.
It's only like a two bedroom house.
And I'm like, you know, which might be fine
for a retired older couple,
but if you want a family,
that two bedroom house doesn't work that well.
You know, that's why I was
wondering about the size of the house.
Right. And that's exactly why we need the variance. Yeah.
'cause without it, you can't put, you know, three bedrooms,
two bathrooms in a, in that small space.
Mm-hmm. Um, the house would be, uh,
just slightly over a thousand square feet.
And, um, it's not as desirable for a homeowner, um,
for someone to buy it.
They'll rent it. But we're trying
to increase home ownership.
Yeah. And I like seeing new housing
stock in the southern end of the city.
I think that's a good thing for our city. Um, okay.
That's my account. Any other comments
or discussion from the board members on this item?
Mr. Chairman? Yes, Mr. Clifft?
Good evening, ma'am. Good evening.
Are these homes gonna have basements? Just curious.
So it depends on the price point that we can, you know,
things are changing so as we, uh, determine, you know,
what we can build, they'll either be built on a crawl space
or they'll be built on a basement.
Okay. Thank you. I yield the floor.
Any other comments? Any motions? Mr.
Chairman? I'd like to make a motion. Yes,
Mr. Clifft,
We'd like to give permission
to construct a single family residence, number one
with a 30 foot rear setback.
Number two without staggering
front building line two feet from adjacent lots.
Number three with 35% lot coverage.
And I just want to read it into the record that
that would take place on parcel number
1213 dash 33
dash 2 76 dash 27.
Not a detriment to the area.
I think it would enhance the neighborhood support.
So you have motion by Mr. Cliff, support by Mr. Lindsey
to approve the request for reason stated
Mr. Cliff votes
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr. Green?
Yes. For the reasons Stated in the motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion Chairman Ritz?
Uh, yes. For reasons stated in the motion.
Your request has been approved and thank you.
Good luck building the home.
And it's nice to see
that new construction going on there. So Yes, absolutely. Thank
You for your work. Absolutely. Thank you guys
so much. Have a great evening.
Oh yes. This will bring us to item number 14,
which is New Business. New Business.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Lindsay.
I just want to say well done.
Uh, for the board members
that are stepping in today, I appreciate you guys.
Thank you Mr. Lindsay.
Yeah, and actually I just wanted to add,
I did not notice, but Mr.
Safa did send me an email.
So that's $20 deducted from Mr. Ic.
So that next item is, um, adjournment.
Any motions? I have a Oh, yes, Mr.
Chair. A couple questions.
Could may, I could ask you a question real
quick on a couple items.
The 13 and Mound is, uh,
well I, I talked to Steve a little bit,
but is there a site plan?
I want? What I'd like to know, is there a site plan?
I don't know that you know the answers right now,
but is there a site plan
and is it seasonal?
Is it permanent? What, what, what, what they have there,
because that particular, uh,
tent used to be right on the corner
and now they have a strip mall there.
So now the tent is in a different spot.
So I think it requires a different site plan.
And if you take a look at it, if you're familiar
with the area that has been growing
and growing and growing, and I, I wanna find out,
and I did talk to Steve a little bit about this as to
where we're at with that.
And third, I, I don't know what the rule is,
but they have a porta John out there
and it's in front of the brick and mortar buildings.
And on top of that, if you drive by it,
you'll see a temporary sign that's right
underneath the brick sign that's stuffed
between the sidewalk and the grass.
And to make it fit, they actually took the base of the sign
and bent it backwards to stick it in there.
So it's not a good look.
Uh, I don't, and I've talked about temporary signs already
and now there's a temporary sign up.
So I wanna find out what's going on there
And yeah, we'll look into that.
And, and Brian's been taking notes as you've been talking.
I'm sorry. So we're gonna look into that to get an answer to
that question because I don't know it
Brian. I'm not trying to, yeah, I'm
Just, um, but Brian, that works for me.
Um, he's been taking the notes
as you've been speaking, so, so first
And foremost, a temporary sign.
It looks terrible
and you have to have some kind of approval
for a temporary sign, I'm assuming. Is this
The, uh, you have To get approval for the temporary,
Is this the flower?
Uh, this is the flower place, but the,
and the, the problem is at one point they came to the DA
and wanted to put a permanent structure at Majestic Plaza.
Then that changed. And so from a stand,
from our standpoint, the site plan
originally was for the coroner.
Now the whole thing has moved behind the strip malls
and Yeah, I I don't know if it's a permanent type
of situation where they just can put up
year after year after year.
And they were Porta John last year they had, uh,
storage and it's for outdoor sales.
So some clarification on 13 a mile would be nice if we could
give some look that some word on the line we can get it.
Yeah, I'll, I'm gonna look at that.
To refresh my memory, it's been a long time since I've been
over in that area and Mr.
Stor is right. There's a lot of history on there.
I there's, there's a lot of history of that property.
And There were some
Previous approvals. I'm history because when
I was on the DDA a there was a big
p**s and match going on about it.
But the bottom line is, I mean,
at some point people can't just be sticking temporary signs
up on the sidewalk below a brick and mortar sign.
I mean, if I had a business in there,
I don't think I'd be real happy about it.
Yeah. With, with the seasonal sales
and the outdoor sales, they're generally allowed one sign.
Mm-hmm. You know, it, it goes with the sale.
Uh, but well, they can't be put on a piece
of grass this big with the bases bent to make it fit, but
They still need to come to us to get approval
For. Yeah. So anyways, that's
my point.
Yeah, they they do. And it sounds like we need
to go over there and take a look anyway,
So Yeah. And my second
one is, I don't,
I'm only this model in my second meeting, I,
I know Home Depot came to us
that at some point in the last did Lowe's come to us.
Because if you take a look at 13 Mile Van D**e
Lowe's, it's growing.
Unfortunately, I can tell you that. Oh, okay.
If it's growing, that could be a concern.
Well, it's, it's grow. It's growing daily.
They, when they built that location, they got
Permanent.
Okay. Outdoor sales.
So, so they never have to come to,
but, well, it was limited
to an area. I mean, if they, they're
Gonna be coming because They don't have to come to
Us. The problem is
on the 13 mile side, they've got
wood stock gate fences stacked up.
Now they've got trailers I've been watching,
I just drive by there all the time.
So they had the storage on the south side
of the building behind the building.
Now they have sheds
and mulch has worked its way
to the gas station, three rows.
Now it's come down, now it's come all the way to 13 mile.
And as of today, it's working its way down Van D**e. Well
See, and that's where I think that needs to be referred
to the building department because Yeah.
See I know they got T
Out, so I just bring 'em up for someone
Bit. But if it's been growing,
they would hopefully remember
what was the original area
because they should't grow outside of the
Original area. So would that be a site plan
then?
There would've been a site plan that That's right.
And that's one of the reasons why when other folks say,
oh, they come every year.
Should we give them a permanent?
That's why I don't like doing that
because we lose the site, you know,
control, see what's going on there.
Because if they're getting too much stuff though, like
I was actually happy with how the Home Depot is doing now
because they have less material outside than they used to.
And if there's, because corporate is probably shipping
everything out there for spring. And I remember that
The Home Depot's too depot set too.
They need to actually be able to kick it back to corporate
and say, we have no room for this, and
or just put it inside their store,
their paint department or something, you know.
So those are just two items that if someone could sniff
around and see what's going on,
Because no planning is really good.
We'll, we'll ask for, to make sure we have the current copy.
Mm-hmm. Excuse me.
The current copy of the approved site plan.
And we'll send somebody out there and make sure
that they're staying within, uh, their approval.
Cool. Thanks a lot. No problem.
But, and you as my co I've heard from like my fellow board
member here, you would think that
when any business has outdoor sales, I pr I,
I think our building department should actually go out there
sometime and take that spray camp that you do something
and actually outline it with like,
and say, yeah, this is your square storage. If you
Get a chance right by it, it's crazy what they're doing.
Our ordinance doesn't provide for that to make them mark
where their outside storage is going
to be on a permanent basis.
Nice. And I don't
think it's specific, just curious, you know, like
that, that it has to be physically marked on the,
on the ground, you know?
Wouldn't it be nice if it was,
Yeah, it'd be something to maybe add into an ordinance.
I think it'd make everybody's life a little bit easier.
So I'm assuming they also have outdoor sales too,
because they have stuff
Permanent outdoor. What's that?
Permanent outdoor sales. Yeah.
Anyways, I appreciate that. No problem.
Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you Mr. Chair.
Yes, Mr. Ross. I Got one more question
before he runs away, and it kind of goes back
to our first item that we had tonight.
Obviously I have a real problem
with people paving their front yards.
And we have a problem in this city
with people putting multi-families in a house.
They're parking car, they're filling up
the backyards with cars.
It's a mess. There's a lot of places that are a mess
that are gonna have to be dealt with.
Um, now in this particular situation,
what if we find out on one of these that
they weren't truthful with us
and they're running a business. How do we deal with that
Code enforcement then, then it's, then it's on us
to establish that it is happening.
And then
Can we revoke and make 'em pull the concrete out.
Now once you grant that variance, it runs with the land
Because Okay.
Yeah. So These permanent variances that we've granted,
that has been granted.
They're, they're, they're there.
And I think we grant states forever
With the, but I'm,
even if they violate the site plan,
That's, that's why it's such an important decision.
And they have to come before this bond.
No, I get it. That's why we have the discussion.
But even if they violated what they came up here for
approval for, I'm, I'm just thinking out loud.
Can you change If they
gave false statements or something?
I, I guess I'd have to look into the legality, but, and
I received, I Received variance is issued.
That's, you know, as far as we're concerned now,
it's just a matter of enforcing it.
I received some information from a
resident while it was going on.
I didn't see it till it was done.
But now I have a real concern about what was approved. So
I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but,
But if you have, you know, you can always turn those
into us to investigate as well.
So
Yeah, we grant, we grant them.
It's up to somebody else to make sure
that people aren't abusing it
or going outside of what was granted or what the purpose is
or, or, or how it's being constructed.
If I turned in all the problems I seen,
you'd need another a hundred inspectors.
Uh, I believe you're right.
Thank you. A code enforcement.
I'll never turn down more inspectors. I'll just say that.
So, Mr. Murphy, since say everybody else has
asked you a question, I will.
'cause one, you know
what I noticed those properties in our city that have the
string, LED light, like certain property today,
which we didn't, we're here to discuss that.
How are you doing it? Enforcing that around our city. So
Are we talking about the car wash?
Yes. Those lights have been removed.
Okay. I, I haven't driven by it lately. Lately. So there's
Actually, did that report make it in Brian?
Wait, the code enforcement report that's in there. Okay.
At least the copy that we have now is updated
to say that it's in
There. First they
got rid of the feather flags. Okay. Okay.
And, but they didn't get rid of the LED lights.
Went back and talked to
'em and said, Hey, you need to do this.
Send another inspector back. They removed them.
Okay, good. So that's all I had. Yep.
Any other questions or motion to adjourn?
Motion to Adjourn Support.
All in favor? Aye. Aye. Meeting adjourned at 9 25.
I.