Good evening.
I'd like to call the order a regular meeting
of the zoning Board of appeals on Wednesday,
June 11th at 7:30 PM Please
rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.
I Pledge allegiance To
the flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic which stands, one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice.
Justice all.
Roll call. Yeah.
Mr. Na Starve. Present. Mr. Green? Present. Mr. Perry?
Present. Mr. Lindsey? Present. Mr. Cliff Present. Mr. Watts?
Here. Mr. Assessor present. Mr. Jersey's here. Uh, chairman.
Present we full board tonight.
This brings us to the adoption of the agenda.
Mr. Chair. I'd like to make a change to the agenda.
I'd like to make a change. Um, I have item seven, item
regarding 2 3 1 7 0 Shaner.
Have it postponed to the June 25th meeting
and have the rest of the agenda.
Um, submitted. As written Support. Support.
We have a motion by Secretary Jersey, support by Mr.
Starwood to, uh, postpone item seven till June 25th.
All in favor? Aye. Aye. Item seven has been postponed.
If you're here for item seven, uh,
please come back on June 25th.
Mr. For brings us to the approval
of the regular meeting minutes of April 23rd.
Motion to approve. Do we have a support? Support?
I'll support that. We have a motion by Mr.
Assessor, support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the April 23rd meeting. Minutes.
All in favor? Aye. Aye.
The April 23rd meeting minutes have been approved.
This brings us to the approval
of the May 14th meeting minutes.
Make a motion to approve the May 14th, 2025 minutes
Support. We
have a motion by Mr. Cliff, support by Mr.
Assessor to approve the May 14th meeting. Minutes.
All in favor? Aye. Aye.
The May 14th meeting minutes have been approved.
This brings us to the May 18th meeting. Minute approval.
Mr. Chairman, to make a motion
to approve May 18th, 2025 minutes.
Support. Support. We have a motion by Mr. Cliff.
Was that Mr. Green? Yep.
Support by Mr. Green to approve the May 18th meeting.
Minutes. All in favor? Aye. Aye.
The minutes have been approved. Is it the right date?
I'm sorry? Is it the right date? It's
The 28th. Yeah,
it should be the 28th.
Let the record state that the, the correction.
Um, lastly, this takes us
to the June 4th meeting. Minutes. What
Was the Mr. Chairman?
I would like to make a motion
or approve support the June 4th minutes please.
Thank you. This, um, we have a motion by Mr. Assessor.
Support by Mr. Watts to approve the June 4th meeting.
Minutes. All in favor? Aye. Mr. Lindsay Abstains. Thank you.
The June 4th meeting minutes have been approved.
This brings us to item six.
Item six. Applicant Plin representative Brian Ette.
William Linz. Um, common description, 2 5 4 1 1.
Ryan Variance has requested permission
to install a 15 foot high by 45 foot wide,
675 square foot wall sign on the east elevation
of the building, and retain a 24 foot by 24 foot,
48 square foot existing wall sign for a total
of 723 square feet of well signage.
Good evening. If you could please start
with your name and address for the record.
Yes. Richard Brezinski from plin.
I'm the graphics marketing manager.
We're the ones requesting the variance.
And, um, Brian here from Sanama has some graphics to show
and, and reasoning why we're requesting it.
Okay, great. And if you could
state your name and address for the
Record. Brian Duque from
sanama.
3 6 8 8 6 Harbor Avenue, Clinton Township, Michigan.
Thank you. Please tell us about your request.
So we're to request a large, uh,
sign for a side of a building.
It's kind of a more like a mural than it is
signage for Plin.
They're looking to do something for marking branding
and make people aware of their building the facility.
It's a very large building, uh,
with little visibility other than a big beige building in a
very small plin at the front door.
Uh, they've requested to do a banner, excuse me,
not a banner, a flex face sign on the side
of the building with a full frame.
Um, it is approximately 670 square foot.
This building has 485 foot of frontage.
So it's a massive facility.
Um, so I think what we're four, I'm sorry,
466 footer frontage.
It's a massive facility
and it's set back approximately 300 feet from the road.
So it's quite a distance back.
I think what we're asking for, for the,
for this facility is reasonable considering the size
of the building and the distance viewing distance.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close
the public portion of the meeting.
I would like Secretary Jersey to read the
planning impact statement into the record.
Well, thank you Mr. Chair.
Um, per the planning department
and, um, the planning director, Mr.
Wir, um, he says he sees no felony, um, no issues were found
to impact the budding local
or general public regarding this item.
Thank you. At this time,
I'll turn it over to the board for discussion. Mr.
Chairman, Mr. Cliff
To the respondents or the petitioner, sir?
Um, I just got a couple questions on the sign.
The graphics are nice. I know you need something out there.
I live in the neighborhood. So, um, is, is, is this, uh,
is this sign back lit?
Is it illuminated? No,
No. No, sir. It's
not illuminated
and it's a full frame flex face.
Like our, like what would be in all large commercial signs,
like your Meyers, et cetera.
It's Just for branding and
Recruiting. Yep.
Uh, flex face. That means you can kind of change out.
Yeah. The graphics on it from time to time,
Uh, could be like, it's not quite that easy
'cause a flex face is put in the frame
and it has to be stretched.
You need warm weather to do it,
so it's not like you're just gonna go flip a panel on it.
That's not the case at all.
It's, it's a commercial material meant to last,
and it's, it's involved putting it together.
That was my next question, sir.
Um, what, what's the longevity on the material on the sign?
How long before we can expect it to fade
and maybe get a little ratty looking up there?
I think a typical sign like
that would be at least 10 years at least.
These are the same signs
that we have at the, at the lumberyards.
Same material. So, fantastic. 10 years longer.
Thank you. So I appreciate your commentary, Mr. Chairman.
I yield the floor. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. Mr. Actually, sorry, I need to finish up.
I, I did miss, um, something on the, uh, planning statement.
Um, Mr. Mr.
Chairman SFA pointed out to me, so I, I apologize.
My fellow board members and the petitioner.
So let me finish reading the second part of this,
um, impact statement.
Um, so it says also, it says the east side of the building
where the proposed sign would be placed is approximately
250 feet from Ryan Road.
The size of the text on the proposed sign combined
with the distance from passing vehicles traveling along Ryan
Road would prohibit the sign from clearly being
seen by passing motorists.
The petitioner may want to consider a reconfiguration
for a smaller sign with larger text
and less empty space on the sign, reducing the amount
of signage, square footage that would require variance
planning staff found no issues
with the existing signage that was on the building.
So my apologies.
Thank you, Mr. Mr.
Starwoods, Mr. Chair, Mr.
I mean, I'm, I'm very familiar with this building
and this location since I actually,
I grew up in the neighborhood behind it.
Um, this sign
to me is not just about giving,
uh, identification to the building.
That's a billboard. I mean, everything on there,
it's the kind of sign that you would make if you were making
a billboard that's gonna go along the expressway.
And if they were just looking for signage
to identify the building, you could go go
with a simple smaller plin sign without, you know,
their taglines and all that sort of stuff.
So I think that this is sign is too large.
Second, when you're driving north, I mean,
when you're driving south on Ryan, never gonna see it.
You're not gonna see it because you've got the
next to this property.
There's houses with trees and all that.
By the time you actually pass in front of it,
you're not gonna, you're not, you're not looking to decide.
So it's not like it's gonna be giving any motorists.
I don't know. I I just personally think
that the sign is too big and would be a detriment.
Mr. Chair, secretary of Jersey, um, you know, first off,
I, I think the petitioner came, came initially before us,
and the initial reaction was, you know, we,
we initially weren't in favor of it.
So, you know, the petitioner said he was gonna come back
with a better, better plan, a smaller sign.
That doesn't seem to be the case.
It seems like we've kinda kicked the can down the road.
Um, me personally, um, I don't see
where the hardship is to, to need this sign.
Um, to me, I think it's completely self imposing.
Um, the business has been there as long
as I've been a resident in the city.
So it's been there probably 30, 40 years.
1937, Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably, probably even longer.
But you've done very well in those facilities.
I mean, you've expanded your operation, the 10 mile, um,
and all doing so with an illegal sign
that was on the building to begin with.
So, you know, to see, to, to try to convince me that you,
you need more signage to, to kind of help the business
or promote the business or market the business more,
you know, your business can marketed itself
over the course of time.
And, um, to me, I just think it's a self imposing sign.
I don't see the hardship to be honest with you.
I do appreciate that it's not gonna be lit if,
if it does get passed, but, um,
for me it's just gonna probably be a no
vote. So I'll yield the floor.
Mr. Chair. Thank you Mr. Watts.
Um, to the gentleman from Sanama, we talked that the last,
the last time you were here, and I know
we ask about downsizing the sign,
We, we did bring that with us,
but obviously Rich wasn't here until last meeting
and a couple of other board members weren't here.
So we figure it was only fair to bring them up to speed
before we addressed some of your concerns.
Okay. Um, one of the things that we talked about
was the size of the sign,
and that was a concern the last time we were here
and kind of put things in perspective.
City warn, I believe it's 40 square foot allowance
for a signage for a typical tenant space.
Typical tenant space, 20 foot wide, 20 foot tall,
16 foot tall, about 10% of the building viewing distance,
maybe 50 feet, maybe 75 feet tops.
In this case, we're looking at a building
that is 466 feet long, 22 feet tall
with over 10,000 square foot of frontage.
If we use that same 40% or,
or same 40 square foot for a building that size,
obviously we're not even a small percentage of the building.
So I was trying to figure out how it could represent
to you the difference in the size of the sign.
So, um, before I turn this around,
I guess we could all agree if I attach this to the size
of my car, how big would this look?
Pretty big, right? If I attach this the size
of a 53 foot semi, how big would it look?
Pretty ridiculous. Okay.
I could not get the full building in this photograph.
Scaling the sign from the curb to the building.
So yes, the square footage sounds large,
but when you put it in perspective of 250 foot of frontage
and over 500 foot foot inch of the building,
it's not a very big sign.
It's all about viewing distance.
So even when you look at a billboard on the side
of the freeway, they're generally really close
to the freeway and they're up high in front of you.
This sign is gonna be very low
in perspective and set way back.
So we did look at shrinking the sign
and we went a little bit further to put it into perspective
and we shrunk it by about 150 square foot
and we're starting to get to that postage stamp below.
It's much smaller.
So I know the ordinance is in place to try to keep it fair
for businesses, but it's hard to compare a business
with 500 foot of frontage with a 300 foot setback
to a storefront of 20 foot or the 75 foot frontage.
Now, in terms of the signage on this,
most time signage is considered the
advertising that's on the sign.
The pa that's on the sign is 16 square feet.
The rest of it is all designed like a mural,
very little signage, just barely has her name on it.
And it's just a big something to enhance the building.
So we kind of did a comparison and just drove the area.
And you can see this is a pretty small impact.
This is not going to look like much
based on the size of the facility.
If you go right down the street
and you look at U-Haul, how big an impact do they have?
There's signage everywhere. They're advertising.
They're not looking to advertising.
They're looking to bring brand awareness.
They're not looking to get more people to come
to front door to bring business.
They're looking to market to hire employees.
They're trying to make themselves aware to the public
and the people that, Hey, we are here.
We're the engineering company.
We're the manufacturing company
that builds the products that you ride in.
You drive on, you do this.
They're not trying to sell something.
They're just simply trying to make you aware that we're here
and we're a part of your daily life.
Whether you realize it
or not, Mr.
Chair, Mr.
Can I, those would be warn employees
too. Warn employees.
I understand the petitions for the city warn,
but if they're just looking for a signage
and identification of the building,
because that's along those lines,
a simple monument sign along,
Brian would cover everybody heading north and south.
Everybody would see the sign.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to respond to my colleague.
The partition's open statement had the word
recruiting included in it.
They're not only using it for identity,
they're using it for recruiting.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Are, do you have any further comment?
No, I just, I just know it's like there are other
facilities like the one in Shelby Township.
I, I know I don't see a sign like
that on the outside of that building.
Do you or is there Might be there now. One, but
We have a, we have a window graphic that goes from the top
of the door to the top of the building
and it's, it's quite a bit more than, uh,
it's about 500 square feet, the Shelby Township building
and, and the, uh, graphic matches what we're trying
to put on the Ryan building.
Once again, it's just for brand awareness
and we're trying to, uh, progress and,
and project a higher tech company than we've been known as
Mr. Green. So I
guess here's where we're at.
We've had a bunch of these coming in front of us
and it seems, it seems to be the trend
that put these very large signs, like you drive down I 75
and you see the, uh, the hospital there.
They have a sign that's very large
and we had some other signs coming from us recently.
So for the board, I think it's a matter of, we need
to make a decision as to what direction we're gonna go with,
with these signs because there'll be more coming
because it's the trend now.
And I personally think that
they look like billboards
and they're not providing direction.
They're not providing anything but branding.
And this particular sign is the same as the ones we've had
before us in a couple other items.
And I hate to see us voting yes and no, and yes
and no, and yes and no.
So I think it's something you need to really to think about
when you, when we think about what direction we're gonna go
with this, because it's gonna come before us again.
Thank you.
I do have a question for Mr. Pont.
I
Okay. Would there be
some sort of way, it sounds like tonight
we, we want it shrunk, obviously,
but could we separate the signage request from the,
the element, like the design element when making a motion
and, or would that be too difficult given that it's all one
Piece without having those numbers?
It may be too difficult tonight.
Um, I,
I don't know where we'd want to go there.
I know gas stations do it a lot,
but I don't know if we've really had many other businesses
do it from time to time.
I know we've done it at a Taco Bell here
and there and stuff like that.
But, but we have those hard numbers
before it comes before you.
Okay. That makes sense. Thank you
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Cliff, I just want to go on the record that this is
yet another case of antiquated ordinances not keeping up
with the times and the trends when it comes
to differentiating signing from branding from art elements.
And, um, you know, we're constantly put in this position
where we have to debate these things
that in other municipalities are relatively clear
and easy to deal with.
I just wanted to go on the record stating
that I yield the floor.
I have one more question for the petitioner.
I, I thought I heard you mention that the, the side
of the length on the side of the building here is like
400, 466 Okay.
Points. The entire building.
I, I'm sorry. The 4 66 is the entire building.
Okay. This rendering that we have, it appears
to be the full, is
That Yeah, that's only that one section of the building.
Well, I, I see edges on both sides.
I see trees on the one side. And
I think you're just looking at
Here, you're just looking at this one piece
of the entire complex that's only
So it like kind of ship it pop
Pops out. Yeah, when we do a rendering,
we try to show it
where it's at on the building.
Okay. And that's why I did this
because I'm like,
how do I piece this whole building together
to show you the full building?
'cause it's massive. It's city blocks along.
Okay, that makes more sense
because I'm comparing the 45 foot of length
to the one 16 along the building
that's indicated this piece, but that's just the,
the part on the correct, the right side
of the building when facing it. Mm-hmm.
And I think that was part of the perspective we,
we were having trouble with before
and it's, this is why we tried to look at something
to show you this is, it's a massive building.
That makes sense. That more sense. Thank you
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Cliff, To the petitioner,
will there be any consideration this evening?
It sounds like a majority
or at least half of the board members up here tonight want
to see some sort of a reduction in the
overall square footage.
And I'm just gonna state I personally don't have a problem
with what you've presented
because it makes perfect sense
to me in several different facets in different ways.
But, um, in the event that, that it might come down to that,
have, have you got a, have you pre-planned
with a figure in mind in the event that the board wanted
to see a reduction in the overall square footage?
Were you, were you ready to entertain a, uh, motion to that?
So I brought a rendering of a version
of the sign that is shrunk.
So you could see the, the,
If you could speak into the microphone please.
I'm sorry.
So I brought a rendering so you could see
what a smaller version would look like.
The original was 675 square foot.
I believe this was like 400, 6 66 square foot.
It was just to give a perspective to the building.
So you can see the difference in the photos you guys have.
You have a UPS truck in front of the building
and that's from midway up the parking lot.
And you can see it kind of looks like a freckle in
that photo, but it's kind
of perspective the size of the sign.
This is showing it the full size
that we originally requested.
This is a slightly shrunk side size
and you can see again, it looks small.
Mr. Chair, can I bring those up
closer so we can all see them? Sure.
I'll allow it. Bring them up there.
Again, I just wanna state we, we cannot get the full size
of the facility in there,
was just kinda give you an idea perspective wise.
Thank you.
Right,
Mr. Eron, did you have a comment?
Um, to answer your question a little further now,
after I had a chance to look that if you wanted
to put something in there like it can exceed 50%,
that would be on them to give us, you know, whatever
that number is, and we would cut out the actual
wording at that point in time.
Okay. That Makes if,
if you wanted to do something like that.
So if you did decide to do it today, it's possible
and they would be required to comply with what you did.
So I don't know those numbers, so I can't say yes
or no that it would comply with what they've submitted.
So. Okay, that makes sense.
I believe I still had the floor.
Um, do you have, would you be able to calculate
that figure for us tonight?
What the actual square footage of,
I can tell you what I did calculate
before I left that the actual name Plin is 16 square foot.
Okay. The other verbiage that's on it,
you don't know, is it marketing?
It's just verbiage that's on it.
So I kind of use the rule of thumb if I'm doing signage
for a customer and you're doing a doctor's office
and it happens to be first aid business
or urgent care, most places don't count urgent
care as a name.
But the minute you put the brand
or office name, now it's considered signage.
The rest is considered directional. So
I want to err on the sign of caution on that so
that, that's why I asked.
Yeah, so I I I figured out the square footage of
the advertising portion, which was Plin. Uh,
And does that include the globe?
Does that include the globe graphic behind Plin?
I didn't count, uh, any of the graphics because
You just counted the Lettering.
Just the lettering. So you knew what percentage was plin?
I'll yield the floor.
You said 16, I'm sorry. Yeah, 16 square foot is plin.
I was, wasn't a huge fan of, of this request, but
after seeing the, the board
and how massive the property is, I, I could get
behind the smaller version.
I think that's still, you know, pretty generous given the,
the 40 square foot ordinance.
Um, it's set back.
They indicated that it's not really for, you know,
street traffic to view, it's more for the trucks coming
and going and, you know, internal use.
But I'd also wanna see some type of restriction on the, um,
the amount of, of signage.
It sounds like we could put some generic, um, maybe no,
you know, no more signage than 50% of the size
of the overall sign,
Mr. Chair. So I'm
lousy at math. Okay.
But I came up just, just by eyeballing it.
I estimated that 16 square feet
repeated about six and a half times as far as lettering on
that sign comes to, uh,
my guess is approximately 104 square feet
of actual lettering signage.
I'll leave the, I'll leave yield the floor.
That's what, 25% of what they're asking.
What's the total 6 75?
Well, I, I was, my suggestion was to reduce,
uh, what was the, the reduced size you showed?
4 475 square feet.
The Reduced one is
4 32 square foot.
And again, I didn't pick a particular size,
just something to reference it.
Okay. So it went from 15 feet tall to 12 feet tall.
Just so there was an idea to show a reduction.
Okay. Just kind of give again, perspective
to the size of this facility.
435 square feet was the
Four four hundred and thirty two.
4 32. And it dropped the height to 12 feet?
Yes. And with the same length?
No, The length shrunk also perspectively.
We did. Okay, gotcha. That would make more sense. We,
So it went from, from 45 feet to 36 feet.
So obviously we can do any combination in between.
It was just to give perspective for you guys to,
to have something to see.
It's hard when you're, when you're here, it's hard
to picture that from proof.
So putting it on the building
and seeing what you're gonna see from the road.
Most people don't realize the size
because of viewing distance.
Nobody realizes the size of a billboard until they
are standing in front of it.
When you're looking from the
road, it doesn't look like much.
Right.
Well, let, let me ask,
you heard our comments so far tonight.
We're gonna go to a motion pretty soon here.
Um, you heard the hesitation with the current size,
would you be in agreement to reduce to 432 square feet?
That I would have to get approval,
but if that's what it was decided here,
that's what I would present.
Well, once we decided it's, it's, it's final.
So I'm not sure if you, if you would want to,
I was under the impression that you were coming here
to tonight with the authority in the
final number. Oh yeah, yeah,
You're right. Yep.
So you would be comfortable with, with that, uh,
amending your request to 432 square feet.
Sure. Okay.
Are there any other comments from the,
from the board or possible motions?
If nobody else has any comments, I'll make a motion
and I'll make it on the reduced sizes Agreed upon.
Uh, I make the motion to give permission
to install, gimme them dimensions again.
Sir. We went from 15 feet high to what? 12.
12 feet by 36. Six 12 by 36 From 15 by 45. Okay.
And like I said, I mean we'd be comfortable if you were
happy to split that down the middle and do something 13
and a half by the middle if that's an option.
'cause as you, as you can see from the visual,
I brought the 12 foot looks pretty small in the building
and we are very low in square footage.
The only advertising on the sign is plum.
The rest is automation powered by innovation,
not advertising, providing solutions since 1937.
That's not advertising.
And you could count the plin.com as advertising.
I'm gonna pause my motion Mr. Pont, please.
The other option is I can read it as written
and if it gets denied,
I guess you can come back with something else.
Um, talk to me about the square footage on the lettering
That anything that has anything to do with
advertising would be any words, any description.
Actually our sign ordinances, any graphics are included.
And what we've done is design element taken
that graphic aspect out.
And that's the only thing we've taken out
of the calculation is that design element out of there.
It is so much easier with an ordinance
where you're allowed X amount
of square feet based on the x amount of square feet
of frontage on a building for appropriate sign signage
sizing that, that's
where my comment about antiquated ordinances come in.
But I digress.
So I guess your number's more accurate.
Well, it, it's just, um, I'm gonna tell you honestly,
I don't have a problem with the way it's written,
but I'm sensing some of my colleagues may,
and I think we shifted some opinions maybe
with your demonstrated graphics.
But, um, I'm inclined to read it as it's written
and see if you get what you came here to get.
And if you can't, maybe we have to try again.
I I guess the question is,
can we take a vote on the full size
and if we don't come to your agreeance vote
On the smaller size, do they have, they
have to resubmit 'em?
I correct. You'd have to go through the whole process
again. Okay.
So it's up it's point. It's up to you. Just take
Real quick point of order. Take
this one, sir. Real real.
I mean, the first time this gentleman came here, we,
we kinda gave him the, the run of the land.
Okay. So he came back, he was gonna bring back a,
a another scaled version, which was fine,
but I feel like we're,
we're trending down a slippery slope when we're asking
applicants like, Hey, is this okay?
If, is this, is this, does this work or it's not?
It's up to us to come up to with, with numbers
an idea, emotion.
If they, they, they live with it, great.
If they don't, great, but we can't be going back
and forth like we had the petitioner last week where,
you know, oh, well can I get a redo?
Because, you know, we don't have a full board.
No, we can't, you know, if,
if I knew the lottery numbers tonight, I wouldn't be here.
You know, so I feel like we're doing the same thing
with, with petitioner.
So that's, that's just my point of order.
So I'll yield the floor.
Any other comments or opinions regarding the reduced size?
Again, I I think the 4 32 I could get behind.
That's a 35% reduction. That seems reasonable to me.
You knew we weren't happy with it
the first time you came back.
And
Just in all fairness, I don't know if I was at
that meeting in April when they came up here first,
Correct? Yes.
So I No, you're correct. Correct. You
Weren't there. No. So I don't,
I'm, I'm, I'm starting fresh here.
Yeah, I get That. My intention is to try to come
to some kind of a compromise. No
Becauseand The way I feel about the ordinance. No,
I being out of date. I understand
Mr. Cliff. You're right, you're right.
I'm gonna go ahead and make a motion. Pardon me?
I'm gonna make a motion to grant permission
to install a 12 foot by 32 foot,
432 square foot wall sign on the east elevation
of the building to retain a 24 inch by 24 foot.
48, I'm sorry, 48 square foot existing wall sign for a total
of, oh, I didn't do that part of the math. Anybody do it?
Mr. Cook, Sir or ma'am, if
I may, if you misstated the numbers, it was 12 by 36 feet.
Your mic. Your mic. There you go. 12 feet by 36 feet.
I believe you said 32?
Yes, that's what I came up to correct as well. Oh, okay.
And the total is four 80? No, 4 32. 4 32.
Well, the total include 48 4 80. Yes.
Oh, right. Thank you. I appreciate that. Counselor.
I'm sorry Steve, I didn't hear you.
The existence four eight
Correct. For a total
of 480. Yep. Okay, I'm gonna start again.
I'm gonna make a motion to grant permission to install
a 12 foot high by 45, 40 by 36 foot wide,
432
Square foot wall sign on the east elevation
of the building and retain a 24 inch
by 24 foot 48 square foot existing wall sign for a total
of 480 square feet of wall sign.
Due to the size and shape of the building on the large lot
and that it's not a detriment to the area
Support, We have a motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by Mr. Perry to approve the request as read.
Just to clarify, the wall sign is 12 feet
by 36 feet totaling 432 feet, 480 square feet.
Total roll call.
Mr. Cliff? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion. Mr. Green? No.
Does this demonstrate a hardship Mr. Star? I also vote No.
I think it's a detriment and it's a self-imposed hardship.
Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion. Mr. Lindsay,
I vote no. I think it's,
uh, self-imposed.
Mr. Watts? No, I think it's too big.
It doesn't, doesn't fit the area. Mr. Juzi votes?
No, I believe it's self-imposed and it's also not necessary.
I don't think it met those two requirements. Chairman Sia?
Yes, for the reason stated in the motion,
I believe there were only four yes votes.
Correct. Unfortunately the item has been denied.
Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.
This brings us to item eight.
Item eight, applicant John and Rebecca Patterson.
Representative John and Rebecca Patterson.
Common description, 1 4 9 1 8.
Jacobs Variance has requested permission
to construct a 16 foot by 26.5 foot deck in the rear yard
to within 21.8 feet of the rear property line.
Good evening. Hello.
If you could both state your name and address.
John W. Patterson. Uh, Rebecca Patterson.
1 4 9 1 8 Jacobs Drive, Warren, Michigan 4 8 0 8 8.
Thank you. Please tell us what your request.
Well, I request is to build a new deck.
Uh, the one that's there is old
and, uh, it was there when we moved in.
We've been there going on nine years
and we just, were trying to improve it.
Uh, it's a wood deck
and it's kind of rotted in several places.
And so, uh, we decided
that we would like a little smaller deck.
And so we have a company that's agreed to do that.
But, um, we didn't realize
that whoever built the deck did not need a permit
to build it, so yeah.
So we're kind of in limbo here.
So all we want is just a, a smaller deck. This sense?
Yeah, he said it.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
I believe we have one, uh, email
or message that got sent to the office
that we'll read into the record.
Yes, Mr. Chair. Thanks.
It says, um, it says, good morning.
We want to let you know that we have no objections
to the construction of the 16 foot by 26.5 foot deck,
um, at the,
at the address at 1 4 9 1 8 Jacobs, um,
that John and Rebecca Harrison
requested to be built in the backyard.
Regretfully, due to car accident, cannot,
I cannot make the hearing.
So this is from, uh,
Kar, so I apologize if I butchered your name,
but, um, it sounds like a, a neighbor
so he doesn't give his address though.
Thank you. At this time, I'll close the public portion
of the meeting and turn it over to the port for discussion.
I've reviewed the petition.
I personally don't have any problems.
I think the deck's been there for a long time
and upgrading it in the same size and location.
I don't have a problem with it.
Mr. Chair. Mr. Watts,
Is your current deck attached to the house?
It is not. And the one we're gonna have built
is four feet smaller.
Is the new one gonna be attached to the house?
The wood is not connected to the house, no.
Hmm. Um,
Question of Mr. Watchman.
My question is, is a permit required
if it's not attached to the house?
Yes. The permit is required
for all decks in the city of Warren.
Okay. I was led to believe something different. So, okay.
There's, within the building code, there is a difference
with, uh, whether it's connected
and whether it's considered part
of the building in different,
but as far as the construction that is, does require permit
and, and within the ordinances.
Okay. Thank you. I'm, I'm in agreement.
I don't, I don't have any problem with this, so
I'll definitely vote to approve this for sure.
Mr. Chair, if nobody else has anything else
to say, I'd like to make a motion.
Please do. Um, I'd like to make a motion
to grant the petitioner permission to construct a 16 foot
by 26.5 foot deck in the rear yard to within 21.8 feet
of the rear property line.
Due to the fact it's not a detriment to the area
and the size of the shape of the lot support,
Support, we have a motion by Secretary Jersey.
Was that support by Mr. Green? Mr. Star?
I I did. Motion by Secretary Jersey. Support by Mr.
Sitz to approve The item is read. Mr.
Jersey votes Yes. For a reason. State in the motion. Mr.
Starch? Yes. For the reason.
State in the motion Mr. Perry? Yes.
For Green State in the motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff? Yes. For the reasons
Stated in the Motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reasons stated in
the motion. Mr. Lindsay?
Yes. For the reasons stated in motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reasons stated in Motion
And Chairman Sape? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate
That. Thank you. Have a
good night. Good night.
This brings us to item nine.
Item nine, applicant Evan Moshi, representative e Moshi.
Common description, 2 2 2 4 1.
Van D**e for instance, requested permission to retain
a 32 square foot wall sign on the south elevation in
addition to the previously approved 32.25 square foot wall
sign on the north elevation for a total
of 64.25 square feet of wall signage.
Is the petitioner present for item nine?
I do not see him.
I've dealt with him at the counter multiple times
and I knew he was looking forward to coming to this,
so I don't know what's happened,
but I do not see him in the audience.
Okay, thank you.
Let's Let do, uh,
Mr. Chair. Motion to table.
I'd make make a motion to postpone until, uh, June 25th
Support A motion by Secretary Jersey.
Support by Mr. Assessor
to postpone till June 25th. Mr. Chair,
Can I ask a question, Mr. Green?
So in a situation like this, is it a,
I mean, could we go ahead
and vote on things when the petitioner is not here?
We, we desire,
I think legally we could, I mean, we, we have denied, I
Guess I'll people in the past
to the city through any of then
Yeah, You could.
Um, I mean, all we're missing is his presentation,
but you've got the petition in front of you.
I'm just, I was just curious.
Um, you've got all the information
you need to make a decision.
That's a good point, Mr. Green.
I, but I'd like to give a courtesy one, one
Time. I understand. Uh, my, the
point
of my question was we have a one petition
who is on number three now.
I'll leave it at that. So I don't want
to get in that situation again. Thank you.
Thank you. We, I'm sorry.
We had a motion by Secretary Jersey that was support by
Mr. Assessor, Mr.
Assessor
to table till June 25th.
All in favor? Aye.
Aye. Item nine has been tabled
or postponed with June 9th.
This brings us to item 10.
Item 10, applicant Frank j Jarbo,
representative Atwell Eric Miller.
Common description, 6 0 1 4
and 6 0 1 5 10 mile
variances requested, petitioner seeks
to waive 51 parking spaces.
Allow a 19.6 foot wide two-way maneuvering lane
and waive a eight foot green belt.
Good evening. Good evening.
Tr uh, Travis Sana representing the ownership group.
4 3 2 7 Delmar Court, Roy Oak.
Let me reread that 'cause I did, I I
it's re it's printed wrong
so it's got all the parcel numbers.
So I, I think I should probably read these parcel numbers
into the record before you start, sir.
So no problem. Fairness is requested permission
to one waive 39 parking spaces at 6 0 1 5 10 mile parcel.
One two dash three dash 3 5 3 dash 0 2 3
and 12 spaces at 6 0 1 4 10 mile parcel.
One two dash three dash 28 dash zero one dash 0 3 2
for a total of 51 wave spaces.
Two. Allow 19.6 foot wide, two-way maneuvering lane
to the east of existing building at
6 0 1 5 10 10 mile parcel.
1 2 1 3 dash 21 dash 3 5 3 dash
0 2 3 and three.
Wave the eight foot green belt on parcel number 1 2 3 dash
21 3 53 dash two three.
We're abuts parcel number one two dash
3 21 dash 3 53 dash 15.
And one two dash 3 53
dash two two.
Thank you. You have the floor now. Excellent.
Uh, so good evening board members.
We are here tonight just to request formal approval
of the three variances just mentioned
for the storage facility project at 6 0 1 5
and 6 0 1 4 10 mile.
Again, the parking variance, the lane width variance,
the green belt variance.
These variances have already been approved
and incorporated into our, uh,
conditional rezoning agreement back in October.
Um, since then we've amended the site plan,
which actually improves all of these conditions.
Uh, and the major change here is we've removed
or we've lowered the square footage from 106,000 square feet
to roughly 90,000 square feet
by eliminating several buildings, which has increased the,
uh, buffer areas.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Secretary Jersey. Would you please read the impact
statement into the record?
So this is from the, from the playing department.
Um, after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the abutting local or general public.
Thank you. At this time, I'll close the public portion
of the meeting and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Green,
I have a couple questions.
So looking at some other storage units
and just to kinda get a feel for this, I noticed that on the
outside of the property, on some
of these other storage places, they have boats,
RVs, they have outside storage going,
that's not gonna happen here.
That's correct. No, no. Uh, outdoor storage here.
Okay. Then my other question is the, the main building,
which used to be the banquet hall.
Mm-hmm. Okay, so in your, on your site plan, it says
this property will be used only for the purpose of operating
and maintaining a self storage unit as well as associated,
as well as associated retail businesses
that are normally permitted in a C one zone classification.
Explain that. What's that? What's that mean?
Are there gonna be other retail
businesses in that main building?
No, this is all gonna be one self-storage user.
Um, I guess that retail portion of
that referencing is literally just the welcome area
for members who are signing up for the first time.
Um, so it's small square footage,
but that building's gonna be all self-storage.
Thank you. Yep.
Set.
Any other comments or discussion from the board?
Mr. Chairman? Mr. Cliff
Hearing no other comments from my colleagues,
I'll make a motion on this item.
Please do Make the motion to give permission
to number one wave 39 parking spaces at
6 0 1 5 10 mile parcel number
one two dash three dash 3 53 dash 23
and 12 spaces at 6 0 1 4 10 mile
parcel number one two dash three dash
28 dash 1 0 1 dash three two for a total
of 51 wave spaces.
Number two, allow 19.6 wide two-way
maneuvering lane to the east of existing building
at 6 0 1 15 10 mile parcel number
one 12 dash 13 dash 21 dash
3 53 0 2 3.
Number three, waive eight foot green belt on parcel number
one two dash three dash two dash 3 53
dash 0 2 3.
Where at? Abuts parcel number
one two dash three dash 21 dash 3 53 dash 15.
And one two dash three dash 21 dash 3 53
dash 22.
I'm gonna be seeing numbers. Am I asleep tonight?
Due to the due?
The fact that it's not a detriment to the area.
It's also resulting
because of some downsizing of the overall project
and it's not a, not a detriment to the area.
We've got some water down here if you need. So support
We have a motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by Mr. Lindsay to approve the request as read
Mr. Cliff?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reason stated yes.
For the reason stated in the motion Mr. Perry? Yes. For
The reason stated in the Motion Mr. Susser?
Yes. For the reasons stated In the motion. Mr. Green?
Yes. For the reasons. State in the motion. Mr.
Auvi. I'm voting,
No, I think that's Not right for that property there.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reason stated in motion Chairman sfa?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
your request has been approved.
Thank you. Thanks For Thank you.
This brings us to item 11. Item
11, applicant, C-T-T-L-L-C,
representative Bobby Mc.
Oh boy. I'm, I'm butchering names tonight.
Sorry, I'm gonna butcher yours too. Mc Quam. Is that close?
Close. All right. Common description,
6,511 mile variances requested permission
to allow open storage of trucks slash trailers
to within 19 feet of the front north property lane.
Good evening. Good evening.
Uh, my name is Bobby Mhi, representing C-T-T-L-L-C,
uh, here this evening.
Uh, to respectfully request the approval
for variance submitted, uh,
regarding the open storage of truck and trailers. And your
Address please. Oh, I'm
sorry. Uh, 6 5 0 0 11 Mile Road,
Warren, Michigan. Thank
You.
Um, the property falls within the appropriate zoning
district, uh, as designated with the City
of Warren within N two zoning.
Uh, however, due to the property's total square footage, um,
from north to south of that property, um,
the recommendation, uh, per the site plan was to have
the truck and trailer storage parked 150 feet from the
north of 11 mile.
Um, given that recommendation, um, we requested the variance
as we do not applicably, contain enough square footage
to park a truck
and trailer, um, with the number
of parking spots that we do have.
Um, that being said, uh, we're seeking the approval
for variance request, uh, again to allow the truck
and trailer parking within 19 feet of the roadway
or the easement in accordance
with the guidelines established, uh,
within the city of Warren.
Um, and we appreciate your consideration with this.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience who wishes
to speak on this item?
Secretary Jersey. I believe there's
a planning impact statement.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Um, per the planning department,
after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local or general public.
The petitioner did receive site plan approval
with conditions for open storage for truck
and trailer storage on November 18th, 2024 is a condition
of the site plan approval.
The petitioner shall plant two evergreen trees or shrubs
and two deci deciduous trees
or shrubs to provide screen to provide screening
to traffic traveling along 11 mile road.
Thank you. At this time I'll close the public portion
of the meeting and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair. Um, real quick, to the petitioner,
you know, you got a unique property there.
I mean it, I've been, I've been to a lot
of different areas in this town,
but, um, none that have a complete power line That's right.
Smack dab in the middle of your yard.
Yeah. So my question is, curiously, just out
of general curiosity, how do you get trailers out of there?
I mean, do you have to back 'em on 11 mile
or, I mean, we can you actually maneuver around?
We can't. Yeah. So we can maneuver truck and trailers to
Within the premises To make a complete 180 turn.
However, if we cannot, uh, if, if the approval
for the variance is not considered tonight, um,
and we have to move that up 150 feet, uh,
from the 11 mile north of, uh, of our property, um,
we would basically have less than 30 feet
to back a trailer in.
And then you have the issue of the power line
directly on the property.
Um, extremely limiting our availability to parked trucks,
um, you know, after making daily runs.
I mean it, I mean, just the way the property's situated
already kind of, I mean, you gotta unpack like a sardine can
for that little tiny property,
but I mean, you kind of maximizing everything you got.
Um, I initially drove by it.
Um, I kind of wasn't really in favor of it,
but now that you, you know, when I looked at the property
and I was just curious in making sure
that we weren't backing trucks onto
11 mile all day every day.
So I was just curious about the maneuvering within
the premises of the property.
Yeah, so as long as you can maneuver everything within the
premises of the property and you meet the site plan approval
with the, you know, the screening requirements for planning,
I actually don't see any, any real impact on that,
that general area either.
Um, the one thing I might wanna recommend
to whoever makes a motion maybe, um, is not to allow, um,
I don't know, maybe ask the city attorney about this.
If we could add a, um, a condition to this to
where we don't see campers or,
or boats stored on the property.
It's just strictly trailers
and it's just strictly trucks and trailers.
Um, can we add a provision like that?
'cause I think in, in my past, down the board,
I've seen this type of situation kind
of morph into a little bit more down the road.
Not necessarily even with said petitioner, it's
with another property owner where they get the variance
and just, it just becomes a, you know, a kind of a hot mess.
So just trying to prevent that in the future.
Not to say that this gentleman would do that,
but just trying to prevent that on the
property in the future.
Absolutely. I mean, I think you can put
that condition in place.
Um,
Maybe you can answer that Mr.
Chair. I, I agree with the attorney.
One of the things we have done internally is try
to be specific on the request
and that's where we put the trucks and trailer on there.
So if there was a boat we can hold them accountable too, so.
Gotcha. That's something we've done internally because
before we used to approve open storage.
Now we try to make it specific to help you guys
and us in enforcement, so. Perfect.
Thank you Mr. Cliff, I have a suggestion on
how we might word that motion, sir, if you'll,
uh, indulge me.
Yeah, absolutely. If it was me, I would have to read
that out as, uh, allow open storage of semi tractor trailer,
I'm sorry, semi tractors
and semi trailers to within 19 feet
of the front north property line.
And that will eliminate the parking legally
of any other type of vehicle or equipment or trailer
or recreational vehicle on that parcel.
I, I, I like that idea too.
'cause I mean, with trailers on there,
it kinda leaves it open, open-ended down the road possibly.
So very well stated. Thank you, sir.
Mr, I do have a question with that.
So our employees park at the location
and take the truck, the semi tractor trailer to in front.
Is that okay to Oh yeah.
I just want, oh yeah, I just wanna make that clear.
Absolutely. Yeah. I just wanna make that clear. Yeah,
They're still employees and they got parked there.
Yeah. Just don't want 'em coming
and setting their fifth wheel up
there and living there. Exactly. So that's
Just wanna, just wanna make that anyway.
Anyway, Thank you. This,
This is the definition of a unique,
It's beyond unique. Yeah.
It, it's, it's bizarre. But Mr.
Chair, god bless you for
Inhabiting. I, I'd
have some words if my dispatcher sent me in there,
but I gave that up a while ago.
So nobody else, nobody else has anything to say.
I, I'd go ahead and make that motion, my colleagues.
Anybody Mr. Watts?
I I have some questions. Okay.
So I'm reading your application here
and it under not self-imposed, it says, was not discoverable
by the owner at the time of purchase.
How does that happen? You're paying money, a big money
for a piece of property like that.
You know what you're gonna put in there.
Mm-hmm. Wouldn't you get, wouldn't you want
to get the requirements before you spent that kind of money?
So I'm not the owner of the understood of the company,
but I think it was the understanding of the current owners.
The previous building was a trucking operation,
so I think falling within that zone, they felt that, uh,
those requirements would be met.
The previous company we had in there legally
and everything else was actually a towing company.
And they had permission to have towed vehicles up to
that point at that point in time.
So this is a different use than that.
I know someone went in before they went in
but didn't go through the proper channels
and then they came in seeing what they had saw.
I believe there was a previous
variance for the towed vehicles on the property, I think
to the 19 feet also. Okay.
I I I believe it Said
17 feet if I 17. Okay. I,
I apologize. That was granted
in 2011. It did say 17 feet.
Yep. So there was a previous variance and
because it wasn't towed vehicles and it's trucks
and trailers, he has to come before you.
And if there is a motion to approve, if
the board sees fit to rescind all previous variances in
that regard, I would make my job much easier in the future.
So here, here's my problem.
I, I personally think it was self-imposed, number one.
And number two, I see it as a detriment to the area.
'cause looking at these trucks backed up here
and you have take home across the street,
nice office building,
nice manicured lawns and stuff like that.
And then we got all these semi trucks backed up here.
So when you're going down the service drive on one side,
you got this nice building on the other side.
You got this look, I just,
I I think it's a detriment to the area.
I think it was self-imposed
and I'll definitely be a no vote.
I yield
Mr. Chair. Anybody
else? I make a motion
to give permission open storage of semi tractors
and semi trailers
to within 19 feet of the front
or north property line
and resend all previous variances for this property.
Due to the uniqueness of the size and shape of the lot
Support, we have a motion, We have a motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by Mr. Assessor to approve.
The request is read.
May I point of order? Um, Mr. Cliff, do
You wanna here my, oh my Gosh.
Do you wanna add to your motion that with the granting
of this, that the, um,
the variance granted on June 22nd, 2011 will
be rescinded? Do I
Have to state the specific
Date you rescinded everything on the
Property? My motion rescinded everything
there.
I think there is something to do with the building
and some of those, so I think I would limit the rescind
rescinding to the outside storage.
Okay. That makes more sense.
So if you just wanna rescind any variance,
previous variance related to outdoor storage
that I think that's sufficient.
We Read my motion to grant permission
to allow open storage of semi tractors
and semi trailers to, with 19 feet of the front
or north property line
and resend all previous variances pertaining
to outside storage.
Again, due to the uniqueness of the lock
Support, Have a motion by Mr.
Cliff. Support by Mr.
Assessor to approve the request as read.
Mr. Cliff? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion. Mr.
Assessor? Yes. For the reason stated in the
Motion. Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion. Mr.
Stevi? Yes. For reason
Stated and motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason stated of the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reason stated in The motion. Mr. Watts?
No, I think it's a detriment
to the area and it was self-imposed.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reason stated and motion Chairman
Sfa? Yes. For the reason stated
in the motion
request has been approved.
Thank you. Thank you. This brings us to item 12.
Any new business? None.
Item 13 adjournment. Motion
To adjourn. Motion.
Motion. Motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by secretary, a jersey to adjourn.
All in favor? Aye. Meeting adjourned. 8 32.