Good evening.
I'd like to call to order a regular meeting
of the zoning Board of appeals on Wednesday,
July 9th at 7:30 PM Please rise
for the Pledge of Allegiance.
Pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
to the Republic for which it stands.
One Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
For all.
Roll call.
Mr. Lindsay. Present. Uh, Mr. Assessor Present. Mr.
Starve? Present. Mr. Perry? Present. Mr.
Clifft Present. Mr. Watts Present. Mr. Green?
Absent. Mr. Jersey's present. Chairman Sefa. Present.
I'd like to make a motion to, uh, excuse Mr. Green.
Um, he said he wasn't gonna be here. Uh, last morning.
We have a motion by Secretary Jersey.
Support by Mr. Perry to, to excuse Mr. Green.
All in favor a aye. Mr. Green has been excused.
This brings us to the adoption of the agenda tonight.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion to adopt the agenda
as written support.
We have a motion by Secretary Jersey, support by Mr. Watts
to approve the agenda as written.
All in favor? Aye. The agenda has been approved.
This brings us to the approval
of the regular meeting minutes of June 11th and June 25th.
They haven't been sent out yet.
Can we get a motion to postpone?
I make a motion to postpone the June 11th
and 25th meeting.
Minutes to, uh, July 23rd, July 23rd. Support.
We have a motion by Mr.
Neitz, support by Secretary Jersey to postpone the, uh,
the approval of the regular meeting minutes
of June 11th and June 25th.
All in favor, aye.
Aye. The approval has been postponed.
Uh, this brings us to item six.
However, before we, uh, begin tonight, I wanted
to notify the audience.
We're down one member tonight.
Um, items 10, nine and 10 are use variances
and use variances require six yes votes,
whereas the other items tonight require five yes votes.
If there's anyone in the audience that would like
to reschedule their item tonight for a full board,
now is your opportunity not seeing anyone.
We're gonna move on to item six.
Item six, applicant William Tate,
representative William Tate.
Common description,
Uh, 2 5 5 2 5 5 3 1.
Loretta Variance has requested permission to
construct a 20 foot, 20 foot by 20 foot 400 square foot,
addition to an existing 26 foot by 26 foot,
676 square foot garage for a total of 1076 square feet
of accessory structure floor area.
Good evening.
Thank you. Your microphone is on, on our end.
Can you make sure it's on down There? Is a green light on?
There it is. There we go.
Great. And your name, sir? Uh,
Denise Tate.
2 5 5 3 1 Loretta Avenue. Thank you.
Warren. William Tate,
25 5 31. Loretta and Warren,
Thank you. Please tell us
about your request.
Okay. So what we're here today is we'd like to add
as the addition onto our garage.
Um, the package shows we have plastic cars
that we would like to house to park in our garage.
Um,
We've had one, my one truck stolen
and like one car on each.
My, uh, challenger,
SRTA neighbor down the street lost his, somebody stole it.
And I don't know, one out my stuff.
I've got about $240,000 in cars sitting there
and I like to keep 'em all garaged up.
And then my one right now has been kept at my neighbor's
and he's gonna need his garage back for the summer.
It's okay, but it's all covered up.
I keep it sideways like this.
Her truck on an angle and then mine jack on the side.
So nobody's gotta have a hard
time getting those out of there.
And also it, it helps us for storage fees to house any
of the cars, um, for a monthly fee for a heated garage
or a heated storage facility.
Um, you see in our package, the cars that we do have, um,
and also in our vicinity around our,
about a mile radius.
The garages that have been up in our neighborhood, uh,
we've been at our address for 35 since
19 85, 19 85.
And We got married, we moved into Warren in 76
In 1976.
So we've been a warrant resident all this time.
And some of these other garages are big
with a big tall roof.
I'm not gonna have that. And they got a quarter
of their backyard left and I'll still have half a mile left
and it's all then done and I will be 21 feet from the fence,
From the fence line and it's a straight shot back.
Um, the neighbors, they have a fence on their side.
The neighbors has a fence on the other side
And it's a garage behind us,
so nobody's gonna see anything. Mm-hmm. The
We have, or which house two houses on that side,
which their garage is half the side
of our garage in the back.
Um, so it's not any detriment to any
of the other neighbors in our vicinity.
Um, we do have attached letters from
our neighbors around us.
Some of them that said that they have no problem with it.
Um, they also enjoy the classic cars with us.
Um, so they don't have a problem.
Um, I know there were letters that were submitted
to the other neighbors.
I know some of them, um,
probably would not answer their doors that we found a couple
of the letters back in our mailbox thinking
that they went to the wrong address.
Um, so they sent it back to our address in our mailbox.
Um, so that's what we're asking.
Uh, I mean, we'd love
to have this done.
We have a lot of pride in our cars that we have
and you know, for classic cars,
you don't drive them all year round.
It's only a summertime, so
we have to store them somewhere.
Sure. Thank you for those comments.
This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
that would like to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public course for the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
I would like to, um, point out the couple, uh,
uh, neighbor letters that are in the packet tonight.
Five of them? Yeah. I see we,
The one that's right next door at, um,
No, he's got something.
Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, we have 'em in the,
in the packet here at this time.
I'll turn it over to the board for discussion.
Um, Mr. Chair, real quick, to, um, to the petitioner, um,
Mr. Tate, um, in, in your, in your application,
I noticed we, it stated 1056 square feet
and I know we read into the record 1,076.
So we did make a motion.
I didn't add nothing. I just didn't know if it
was 1,056 was,
I have no idea. Exactly.
Okay.
Dennis the, from the company, they drew it all up.
So I have,
He submitted all the, he Submitted everything.
I didn't submit nothing, sir.
So, okay, so it,
it looks like he submitted 1056 square feet
and what we read was the thousand 76.
So it was 20 square feet gonna gonna affect
Yeah, our garage is, um, yeah, the garage cinder block
and brick on the outside.
So I don't know if that's the way it meant. So
It's the total outside, or the inside is what that
They were referring to? Yeah. 'cause they're
going from the outside.
On the inside it's smaller
'cause it's 10 inches with cinder block
and brick all the way around the garage.
So I don't know if he counted from the outside or whatever
In the agenda.
Thousand. Could you add a little bit
of clarification right here?
1,056, but it's posted
for 1,076, a little bit larger. It,
It's been posted for 1,076 in the
processing and everything else.
I believe they probably, the contractor probably measured
inside our ordinance requires outside
and it was posted properly at the one 70 or 1,076.
Okay. Thank you. That answers my question.
I'll yield the floor.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Cliff
To the petitioner.
So I'm, I'm, I'm a little bit acquainted.
I'm the Tates and some of the other folks
that I see letters from in the, in the packet.
Uh, some of them running the same
car cruise circles, so to say.
Um, I I just want to go on the record to vouch that, uh,
you know, uh, the Tates aren't hoarders.
We don't have a garage full of junk
and we're looking for some someplace else
to put some more junk.
Um, they're very meticulous.
They care highly about their, about their classic vehicles.
Um, they expressed to me in frustration the other evening
and poking around,
I found three other people in their neighborhood that had
recent damage done to their automobiles due to the passage
of this wonderful fireworks law where we got mortars
and stuff falling out of the sky that weighs
anywhere from a half a pound to a pound of Denton hoods
and roots from the victim of that myself, um,
the size of their property,
it's not gonna be a crowded situation.
They're gonna have more room left than I had when I did the
extension on my garage some years ago.
So I don't have a problem getting behind this, uh, whatever.
There are several structures in the immediate vicinity
of the Tates that are as large
or larger than what they're asking for.
So I don't think they're asking for anything out
of the realm of reasonability.
And with that, I'm gonna yield the floor.
Are there any other comments or discussion?
I personally don't have a problem with it.
I, I think it fits the character of the, of the home
and is a reasonable request.
Um, if the board has any cell phones by their microphones
or something, we're getting a lot of static back here
that if you can Nope, check that.
I'm not seeing any, seeing
Any. We should be
able be Okay. Went
Away already. So,
um, if nobody else has anything else
to add to this item, I'd like to make a motion.
Um, I'd like to make a motion to grant, um,
the petitioner's request to construct a 20 foot
by 20 foot 400 square foot addition to an existing 26 foot
by 26 foot, 676 square foot garage for a total
of 1076 square feet of accessory structure floor area.
Due the fact that size and shape of a lot,
it's not a detriment to the area.
I'll support that. We have a motion
by Secretary Jersey, support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the request is read
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. For
reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Clifft? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr.
Starve? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason
Stated in The motion Mr. Er
Yes. For the reasons stated
in
The motion Chairman sfa?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate
It. Appreciate it very much. Thank
you. Thank you.
Have a good night. This brings us to item seven.
Item seven. Applicant DFA Representative dfa.
Common description, 4 5 5 3 13 mile
variance has requested permission to retain a 23 foot
by 24 foot of hard surface
and front yard for Widen driveway.
Good evening. Yes. Is my name.
Uh, do last name? Farm Do farm.
And your address please? Uh,
4 5 5 3 E 13 RO Warren, MI four eight Euro 19.
Thank you. Please tell us about your request.
Uh, I request of, uh, as my counselor fund,
how I checked it about 2005, long time ago
before my mom, my dad, and now my mom.
My dad died. You still with dad?
But, uh, couple years ago for my fun yard, for the gas lick,
you know, the CD water and just come and he just do it.
And, uh, the guy inspector, he told me, why you just do,
uh, the new one in there.
I told him the gas licked the CD water and come to do it.
That's why the new cement, he told me about it
and he gave me the ticket to go that.
Thank you for those comments. Yeah.
This is, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Yes Sir. Could you step to the side?
Could you state your name
and address for the record, please? Yeah,
My name's Michael Kulick.
I live at 4 5 4 1 directly next door to the neighbor. Yes.
He has multiple drivers in there.
He has a single driveway living on 13 Mile Road.
We have no street parking, like the subdivisions.
He maintains his property. He does not. Other side of me.
Over the past years there's been renters.
I had to buy them a lawnmower
to cut the grass, the back of the house.
It, it grew for a year.
So when the new guy bought it, it took him
two weeks to get the lawn back.
He keeps his property up, never had a problem.
The other house, I wish they had front parking.
I put sprinkler system in,
they ran over it three times, broke 'em.
So I have no objection to him.
Parking sometimes 13 mile Road,
depending on the time of the day.
It's either, uh, Speedway,
which the Warren PD is now monitoring
and sometimes with traffic it's tough to get out,
backing out on the 13th.
So he doesn't store his vehicles in front. He parks there.
He has, he has grown adult kids.
So single driveway is,
I have a double driveway and I love it.
So I have multiple, I have, I a lot of parking, so I don't,
but him keeps his law out.
Not a problem. Good neighbor.
Thank you for those comments. Yep.
This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone else in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair. Mr. Lindsay?
Um, I've said it
before, I really appreciate hearing, um, from neighbors,
from the community on how this affects them.
Um, generally I don't like seeing, uh,
the cement in the front yard like that.
Um, but I definitely understand you being on a main road
with a single driveway.
You have no other place to park.
Um, this is tastefully done.
I really wish, you know, you would've went
through the proper channels with the city to,
to get a permit before, uh, it's done.
But I can't see, you know, trying
to get the petitioner to, to tear this up.
I don't really have any issues
with it. Are you at the floor?
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Watts To the petitioner, how many cars do you have?
Uh, so they got the fall car.
Four cars? Yes. Okay. Um,
Because sometime my brother, he come home,
you know, pack in more.
I I understand that. Yeah.
But we're having a problem across the city
with people paving their yards
with multiple families moving in
and there's one just down the street from him.
I noticed when I went and looked at this yesterday,
and we had the same problem across 13 Mile
and Bowie that the gentleman had to take it out.
Um, I think we're headed in our,
and I, I understand your situation.
Yes sir. I understand.
And I understand your fine neighbor
there sticking up for you.
I know what he's talking about. Mm-hmm.
But we just can't have people paving their yards.
This is a detriment to the area, to the neighborhoods.
And if we let one go, we're going to,
everybody in the city's gonna be paving their front yards
and it's just, it's not right.
We're just, we're gonna have to deal with this.
So I I'm gonna be a no vote on this, so thank you
Mr. Chair.
Mr. You know, I find it always very challenging
for any resident in the city that lives on any
of the mile roads because the car speed along there so fast.
I mean, I know even I, I know people
that live along the service drive of 6 96
and speed limit says 40 cars are going 45 50.
And when you don't have any parking, I do agree
that we can't have front lawns paved over
and within subdivisions I would totally be against it.
But in areas like this,
you can't park on 13 mile cars are speeding on 13 mile.
It's like if the city needs to almost have a plan
of how do you wanna address something similar for anybody
that lives in that kind of situation when you're on a main
mile road where you're stuck with no parking
and no space and all that.
'cause you know, then we could all say at least, you know,
treat everybody's same in that in uniform.
The problem is, is there the city
doesn't have an answer for it.
It, you know, it's, um, so in this case, I mean, driving
by the house is well kept.
The neighbor does a good, I mean, he does a good job.
And you know, I I would tend to support this one,
Um, Mr. Chair,
Secretary of Jersey. Um,
So I, I kind of err on the same side as, uh, Mr.
Mr. Watts is, um, you know, we,
I discussed this last meeting too.
Um, when, when this came up about us paving into green space
and, you know, we were losing green space in this, um,
in this city at a rapid rate.
If we did this to every house,
even even along main thoroughfare, um,
we'd be losing even more great space.
He's got four cars on his, on his premises.
He's got two car garage. He's got, he's got it bricked.
He's got it paved all the way around.
He could put a car in on the side on an angle
to get two cars outta the garage.
You'd still have, you'd still have plenty of room
to get out, even if he did it.
I, I wouldn't be against him if he did it as tastefully
as his neighbor did, just to create a double thing.
But he's got a parking lot in his front lawn in my opinion.
I mean, so of course it's well kept because it's all cement.
All he has to do is throw some, you know, roundup on his,
on his front and he's, he's done.
So I don't see four cars being enough
for a hardship to pave your front lawn.
Um, that's, that's my opinion.
Um, to me, I'm a no vote against this.
And, but I would strongly request maybe the petitioner
reevaluate the situation and try
and get to maybe a double wide instead of a three four wide,
you know, spot in your front lawn.
Kind of like how his neighbor did.
If you look at the, the, the image that was
provided to us in the back, you go down, down the street,
there's probably a couple other ones that are probably, uh,
you know, maybe don't have a variance either,
but they have just enough to get a second car by,
there's not a three wide parking lot in front of the house.
So there's, there's other ways to go about this
other than the way the petitioner did.
Um, but I would, I'd, I'd respectfully deny this,
but I would be open to, um, him coming back
with an auxiliary plan to maybe have a little bit more, it,
you know, not as much, but maybe enough to
where he can se get a second car around
where it's double wide just in, in the front of the house.
I don't know. But to me this seems
excessive and I'm a no vote.
Thank you for those comments, Mr. Chair. Mr. Cliff,
To the petitioner, I had a hard time understanding you in
your opening monologue, sir.
So I need to ask a couple questions for clarity, okay?
Yes sir. When did the pad go down initially?
When did you initially cement put the
Cement down? 2005
before my mom, my dad still July.
Okay, so 20 years ago.
Yeah. 20 month you put that payment down.
Yes. And then somebody came along recently did some
utility work and they had to replace the one square
that makes it look new in that Raise the question.
Yes, sir. Got that correct? Yes, correct. Okay.
If I get like leaking, you know, I, I see they come in.
I see. Alright.
I just, I was trying to get the timeline down here
because I wanted to reiterate to my colleagues on the board,
he's not asking to put it in.
It was initially put in 20 years ago, 20 years went by,
nobody said anything.
All of a sudden somebody sees a new patch of concrete
and now they're gonna violate him for it.
So all he's asking to do is to retain what has been there
for the last 20 years.
I don't have a problem voting Yes on your
petition this evening, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Any other comments from the board?
I think that's an important distinction Mr. Cliff made.
I would not usually get behind this given the, the size
of the lot and the concrete being the majority
of the, the front yard.
Uh, but given that it's been there for, for 20 years,
I could see the argument for that.
I would usually say that I like it to be a two car
driveway, like the others you see on the aerial
view with a couple neighbors.
I think there's two or three on the aerial view
that it's more tastefully done.
Um,
Mr. Chair,
I'd also like to reiterate that there is no permit
required for flat work outside
of the easement area in the city of Warren.
Had there been an ordinance in place
that requires permitting for flat work
or concrete work within the city,
this likely would never have
happened and I'll yield the floor.
I'd also like to, um, add to the fact
that if maybe our departments were properly staffed,
that this wouldn't take 20 years to to catch.
So I'll yield the floor on that.
Mr. Chair? No, Mr. Watts. We
Don't have that both by, So
I, like I said
before, I understand the situation,
but if you're gonna do it on 13 mile,
you're gonna do it on 12 mile,
you're gonna do it on 11 mile, whatever the road is,
half miles, we're gonna have a problem
and we already have a problem four
or five doors down that somebody moved in there
and just paved it fresh.
I checked there's no permit on it
and it's gonna come for, for us before a variance.
And like I say, just across the street on one
of the side streets, we had the same situation.
I honestly, I've talked to a lot of people about this,
but we're, we're setting a dangerous
precedent allowing this.
I feel sorry for this gentleman
'cause he's been there for 20 years, but like I say,
guy down the street moves in, he sees
that he paves his, now what do we do?
And then the next guy and the next guy,
before you know it, all the 13 miles paved, you know,
residents are tired, very tired of this kind of stuff,
you know, from a guy that's out there
and sees what's going on with the community.
People are really getting tired. So I yield
Any other discussion or possible motions from
the board? Can I,
One, can I One Comment.
No, I'm sorry. The public portion has been closed.
Mr. Chair, if there's no other
comments, I'd like to make a motion.
Please do. I'd like to make a motion
to grant the variances requested, uh, to retain a 23 foot
by 24 foot, uh, of hard surface
and front yard weight, excuse me,
in front yard four, widen driveway.
Uh, due to the fact that the ordinance as it is, uh,
would cause unreasonable burden, um, the property is unique,
uh, and I do think it's necessary
living on the, the main road.
And I'll support that. We have a motion
by Mr. Lindsey, support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the request is read.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr.
Starch? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion. Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts?
No, I think it's a detriment to the neighborhood
and it needs to be resolved. Thank you.
Mr. Jersey also votes?
No, I believe it's also a detriment
to the area chamber. Mr. Sfa?
No, I believe it's a detriment to it to the area.
It's too large, but nonetheless it's still
Passed. 1, 2, 3.
The item is still passed. Five to three. Five
To three.
Thank you. Your item has been approved.
This brings us to item eight.
Item eight, applicant, city of Warren,
representative Steven Campbell, city of Warren.
Common description, 1 4 2 1 7 9 mile
for requested permission to install 133 foot,
133 feet of six foot,
six six foot high chain length fence in the front setback
and in front of the front building line.
Good evening. Good.
Campbell, city of Warren Public Service, we uh,
this is a public owned, uh, city owned building.
14 207 9 mile.
Uh, we're in the process right now
of rehabbing the building.
Our intention is to move our property maintenance inspectors
down there, which would include all of their
personal vehicles and city vehicles.
We want to enclose that area
to protect those vehicles from any damage from, uh,
vandalism or theft or anything like that.
So we're asking for that variance of the fence
to move forward to uh, make enough room
for parking for those vehicles.
Thank you. Thank You.
This is a public hearing. Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair. Um, to the petitioner.
Um, is the fence already up?
No, it is not. It's not up. Alright.
Um, that's all I have.
It looks like a pretty routine Yeah. Request.
Are there any other comments or
Mr. Chair?
Mr. Watts? I don't know,
maybe I had the wrong building,
but I was by there yesterday.
Um, and I thought the fence was already up for some reason.
There are some fences posts going up,
but the fence is not up yet.
Was black fencing up around the building
that looked like it had a bunch of control panels?
Uh, there's no fencing around the building at this time.
Hmm. This is right on nine mile, right?
That's correct. It's right next to the uh,
uh, Montessori school.
It's just east of the Montessori school.
It adjoins the Montessori school property.
Alright. I must have been looking at the wrong building
then, so, okay. Thank you
Mr. Chair. No,
no other board members have, uh, any comments?
I'd like to make a motion. Uh, I'd like to make a motion
to grant the petitioner permission to install 133 feet
of six foot high chain link fence in the front setback
and the front of the front building line.
Due to the fact the size and shape
of the lot in not a detriment area. Support. Support,
We have a motion by Secretary Jersey that was support
by Mr. Perry to approve the request as read
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reason
to stay in the motion Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the rein state in the motion chamber, uh, Mr. Mr.
Star? Uh, yes.
For the reason. State In the motion Mr. Ser?
Yes. For the reason stated
In the motion. Mr. Clifft?
Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reason stated in the
Motion and Chairman Sia?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion
request has been approved.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Have a nice night. Thank you.
Good luck. Have this brings us to item
Nine. Item nine, applicant
snick NCO Representative Snick nco.
Common description 2 3 6 2 5 Vandyke your answers requested
permission to allow a dental lab in a C two
zoning district and that's a use.
Hey there. Good evening. I'm Matilda Naco, state nco.
Um, we are here for 2 3 6.
And your address, please? Oh 2 3 2 6 5. Uh, van D**e.
Um, it's currently a vet office.
We are trying to convert into a dental lab.
Um, we do have a purchase agreement.
We realized it is a commercial zone.
Um, they're saying a dental lab should be industrial
or like a light industrial M1, M two.
Um, so we are trying to see if we can get a variance.
Um, if we do buy the property,
there won't be any changes made.
Uh, they think dental lab is gonna be something that's loud
and they have a bunch of machinery.
Um, it's not gonna be like that. There's some photos there.
Uh, everything that we do, it's more digital,
it's more computerized,
so there isn't gonna be any loud noises.
Um, as I said, it is a bet right now
and it's next door to a auto shop and a bar.
Um, so there's not gonna be those types of noises.
Um, so we're just trying to do that.
I know they wanted commercial people
to come in and out of the building.
Um, possibly we will be doing that
because in a dental lab, uh, people do come
and get like shades of their teeth checked out,
sometimes different impressions.
Um, so people will still be coming in and out.
And then also just kind of for the community, uh, the area.
Right now, as I said, uh, the man is retiring as a vet,
so not that many people are going
in and out of the building.
So we do want to add to the community.
Um, I did talk to uh, Tom Bato.
I know they're trying to develop that area,
so we just want to add to it.
Um, you know, bring people in there.
Also, we do like the building, the location.
My husband and I have been looking for quite some time,
um, to do this for us.
It's kind of one of our dreams.
So it's a good building, it's a good location.
We're by the freeway. Um,
also there are about 400 dentists in the Warren area
and there is one dental lab.
Uh, the dental lab also is, um, commercial,
so I'm assuming they also came here to get a variance,
uh, to use that.
Um, so that's pretty much the gist of it.
We're just, I'm not really sure if you guys
need anything else from us.
Is there anything you want to add on it? No. Okay.
Alright. Thank You. He's the talker.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
I do just have a, a question for my own knowledge. Yeah.
What is the difference between a dental office
and a dental lab?
Are patients going into a dental lab? Uh,
They do, as I said, like for shades,
impressions, things like that.
But pretty much the dentist, when you get a crown,
let's say, or a partial, they take impressions, they send it
to us, he makes them, sends them back
to the lab, I mean to the dentist.
Um, that's about it. Okay.
Mr. Wa do you have something to Hi, Steve. Hello.
I see. Um, the, the main reason is
because they're doing manufacturing processing here is the
main purpose of the business.
It is not more of a, um, commercial use,
it's more manufacturing, which would be an industrial zone,
but this would be very, very light manufacturing.
And I believe the board approved one at 11 Mile
and Shaner is where the other lab is,
which is another commercial building.
Okay, great. Thank you for clarifying.
In my mind, this is a, a, a less intensive use
and by no means do I consider this industrial
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Watts, I'm I, Go
Ahead, go Ahead. I
think, I think this is a good fit.
You know, I'm down in that area a lot, so it's nice
to see a building being cleaned up and used.
Um, and I think, you know, according to what Mr.
Wa said, I understand that,
but I think that's where we have a problem
with our zoning laws and, um, I don't,
I don't see a problem with this, so thank you.
Great. Hope it all works out for you. Thank
You. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
Um, I'd like to add too, to the fact
that we had this discussion multiple times about the
difference between C two and M two and how close it is.
And it's just another, another thing
that comes before our desk.
Um, just making us aware that we need to try
and change, you know, change what the vari, you know, or,
or merge it or just eliminate M two altogether.
I don't know. But, um, doesn't seem to be fair to, um,
people to keep coming
before us, um, when we, we aren't, uh, changing,
changing the zoning, um, in certain areas.
So, um, I agree too. I think it's a good a, a good use.
Um, I just have one quick question.
Is there any x-rays or anything going on? No.
Like radioactive? No, no, no. Nothing. Okay. All right.
Uh, that's the only concern.
Like initially I had, I mean, not, not a huge concern,
but, um, again, it's a good use for the building.
Um, the building's been vacant for a while, um, that,
that area definitely needs, um, needs more businesses
and people to take ownership.
Um, like, like you folks have wanted
to invest in the, in the property.
So, um, so thank you for doing so
and thank you for coming up with such a great, um,
looks like a great I great idea
and a great fit for a building that,
uh, could sit vacant.
Who knows for how long?
Um, so, um, I, I could definitely probably support this.
I'll yield the floor.
Thank you. Any other comments or motions?
Nobody else has any other comments?
I would like to make a motion. I'd like to make a motion
to grant permission to the applicant
to allow a dental lab in a C two zoning district, um, due
to the fact of, um, the size and shape it a lot
and it's also not detriment to the area
Support.
You have a motion by Secretary Jersey Support by Mr.
Assessor. Mr. Assessor to approve the request is read
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. For
the reason stated motion. Mr.
Assessor? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion. Mr.
Cliff? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the
Motion. Mr. Lindsay?
Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Stevi? Uh, yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion and chairman sofa?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion,
your request has been approved. Thank you. Thank
You so much for a good Night. Thank
you. Good luck. Thank you. This brings us to item 10.
Item 10, applicant Ginkgo Property Group LLC,
representative Karen Birdie.
Kevin description, 11 mile branch has requested permission
to one, allow a three unit triplex multifamily.
R three use dwelling in a C two zoning district.
That's a use to allow a lot area of 12,600 square feet.
4,600 square feet less than the ordinance requires.
That's a use three. Allow a 24 foot front setback,
11 feet less than the ordinance
requires that to use as well. Good
Evening. Good evening,
Karen Birdie.
Um, my address is 2 8 2 2 5 Mound Road, Warren,
Michigan 4 8 0 9 2.
Um, with me tonight is Mr. Hague of Ginkgo Property Group.
He's here in the audience.
Um, this is a project that is located on the corner
of 11 Mile and Black Ma, I'm unable to give you an address
yet 'cause one hasn't been assigned.
It's vacant property there
and Black MA is a residential street
and I think everybody knows that 11 Mile is um,
uh, collector Road.
Um, this property is zone C two currently
and right on the corner where the residential property is.
And I don't know if you've got my letter that I submitted
with my application, but I went through
and I listed
what could be built in the C two district at the end
of a residential street.
And it's things like fruit market, grocery store,
delicatessen, drug store, gas station, oil service station,
banks, lawyer's office, dentist office,
um, places
that have showrooms like electricians, decorator offices.
The list goes on and on, car wash, um, antennas,
uh, et cetera.
But that's not what this neighborhood needs.
Um, quite frankly, it's a residential neighborhood
and we want to work with the neighbors to put in a use
that is conducive to their neighborhood.
Um, I assure you that my, uh, client, Mr.
Hague has been working with the residences on that street
for quite some time and the residences do not wanna see
two use to go in there.
So what we propose to you tonight is a multiple,
um, use for three uh,
units, three townhouses.
Each one of these townhouses is
1600 square feet and that doesn't include the garage.
They're three bedrooms, two and a half baths.
Um, and quite frankly, they measure up to
what is built in that neighborhood being 1600 feet
with the three bedrooms, two and a half baths, et cetera.
What's important with this project is
This is Black Ma, the residential street.
This is 11 mile.
We have all our traffic coming and going off of 11 mile.
This is outta respect for, um, the residences.
We have three residences here, all having garages.
So they would have garages here.
I know that I'm not the greatest of colors,
but what I was trying to show by marking this green area is
that we have four times
the required green space for this project.
Four times. Most of your residences that are on black mar
take up 50 to 75% of their lot when they build on it.
Our project takes up 24% of the lot.
The rest of this lot is green space
or space for, if you will, parking of cars going in
and outta garages.
And we have moved all that from the residences
all out in the back.
And on 11 mile.
This is so that we can keep the street, if you will,
in its residential type of, uh, nature.
We believe that by reducing the zoning, in other words,
we're going from C two down to a multiple residential use.
We're actually going down three zones.
But we believe that this is the right project for that area
and we believe that it's the least intensive use,
the least disturbing to the neighborhood.
The Importance of the setback
where we need 11 feet, uh, variance
is because we wanted to make sure
that we didn't end up putting, if you will, the parking over
by the neighbors or the dumpster over by the neighbors.
We wanted the front of these residences to face black Ma
and we needed enough room here for cars to turn in and out
and to get in and out of the garages.
And that's the reason that we need the setback from the
front of 11 feet.
We could configure this differently,
but it would not be as good a plan
where you've got everything away
from the residential street.
As I stated, the petitioner's been working closely
with the neighbors In front of you.
I was able to drop off three letters of people that told us
that they were in support of the project.
Could not come to the meeting tonight.
We encouraged them to write letters.
Um, in front of each of you on item 10,
there's the three letters that, um,
are from those neighbors.
It's my understanding there are also neighbors
here tonight in support.
And a letter came in tonight that I dropped off.
Um, it was brought here to the meeting
and I gave that, I asked for it to be put with Mr.
Jersey as the secretary.
And so I asked that those letters be considered
and made part of the official file.
Now, I don't know if some of you were on the board
or if you recall, this item was before you in the past
and it was four units.
And I believe from reading the record,
I did not represent this item.
But from reading the record, what the board was asking
for was a reduction from the four.
I think that, um, my client took that to heart,
worked on a good plan.
He he did work a lot with the, um, Ron Worth planning
to make sure that they put together
the best plan they could.
He ran it by the neighbors and we're down to three units.
This, we feel is a fair usage of the property.
Like I said, we're only using 24% of the lot to build on.
The rest of it is besides the driveway
and the area where the cars pull in and out.
The rest of it is green space, four times what's required.
So I would ask you to look at this item in a favorable way
and if there are any questions, I'll be available.
Thank you. Thank you for those comments.
This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Good evening.
Good evening. Your name and address please.
Alan Johnson. 2 6 7 1 9 black ma I'm in support
of this imp I call it an improvement
'cause a lot of people don't understand the current zoning
would be a detriment to the area with that size of lot.
You put a car washer
or something that's open 24 7, that's not gonna help,
that's not gonna enhance the community.
So I'm in support of this
because it'll be a great asset to the community. Thank you.
Thank you. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I,
I close the public portion of the meeting.
I'll turn it over to Secretary Jersey
to read the couple letters into the record and the planning.
Summarize the planning impact statement.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, so the first, uh,
first statement is from a Rhonda Johnson
who resides at 2 6 7 1 9 Black Ma.
She says, I don't like seeing a vacant lot at the corner.
It looks so empty. I feel
having the townhouses would be a beautiful site
and would benefit our neighborhood.
I think approving this would be a great asset to our block.
Thank you R Johnson.
Um, So next one is from a,
looks like a Wilma Duncan,
I believe at 2 6 6 8 7 black ma.
Um, I'm ready to support the variance request
for the proposed project.
The lot is currently zoned commercial,
but I would rather see it used for residential purposes.
We already have enough commercial
industrial properties nearby.
I don't want to want any more commercial businesses moving
closer to our neighborhood.
I believe this project would help our area residential
and family friendly neighborhood.
Please, please approve the variance. Wilma Duncan.
Um, next one is from,
It says My name is Kamal Ur
and I reside at 2 6 7 3 5 Black Mar.
Um, I recently received a letter
regarding the proposed variance request
for the development at the corner
of 11 Mile Road in Black Ma.
Unfortunately, I'm unable to attend the meeting in person,
but I would like to take a moment
to express my full support for the proposal.
That lot has remained vacant for as long as I can remember.
Although it is, it is currently zoned for commercial use.
I strongly believe that a residential development would be a
much better fit for our neighborhood.
Our area is predominantly residential
and maintaining that character is important
to many of us who live here.
A well-planned residential project like this would,
this one would not only compliment the existing
surroundings, but also enhance the overall appearance
and value of the area.
I, I sincerely urge the board
to grant the necessary variances
to allow this project to move forward.
Sincerely, Kamal, all Turkey. And the next one is from,
Um, It says my name is, my name is Steven j Hun
ti and I live at 2 6 0 7 3 Black MA Avenue.
Although I could not be present at tonight's meeting,
I wanted to submit this letter to express my strong support
for the proposal currently under consideration
and to encourage the board to grant the necessary variance.
We are a residential area
and over the last couple years we've started
to see more families moving into our neighborhood.
We're seeing more young children outside playing.
It's been a wonderful revitalization for our community.
There is a renewed sense of life and promise
and it's important to continue that progress in a way
that aligns with the residential nature of our area.
Just one block east of us is a commercial development.
Primarily medical. Primarily medical.
And the other side of the road, everything is zoned
for commercial and industrial use.
I believe that's close, that's close enough.
I don't want commercial business any closer
to our homes than they already are.
This proposal is presented, supports the vision we have
for our neighborhood, one that is focused on
family safety and community.
It keeps our area residential
and helps move us in the direction of rebuilding the kind
of neighborhood we want to live in.
I respectfully ask for your vote
of confidence in granting the
necessary variance for this project.
This is an important step toward preserving
and strengthening the character of our community.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Steven j Hyundai and then from the planning department.
Planning department says, after review of the request,
no issues were found to impact
that budding local or general public.
The petitioner received site plan approval
with the conditions for residential triplex dwelling
building at the
April 7th, 2025 planning, commission meeting.
During the public hearing portion of that meeting,
several neighboring residents
to the property voiced their opinions about the proposed
tri triplex.
All of them strongly in support
of this residential development attached our,
the findings and recommendations.
Um, and that's all I have Mr. Chair.
Thank you. At this time I'll turn it over
to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair, real quick.
Um, you know, this did come before us, um, before,
and we did, you know, Ms. Bird is correct in, um,
in her statement, um, um, that we were looking for like a,
a less impactful use, um, on that property.
I'm also in full agreement, um, that any business
that goes in there is just gonna die on the vine.
I mean, with the way traffic is there, I mean,
there's no way to advertise the business
or anything that all it's gonna do is just negatively impact
that, that a budding neighborhood.
So I was never for initially a business going in there.
Um, so I go on the record saying that I do believe that
there should be housing there.
Um, the initial plan was, I think just too impactful.
I think we had issues regarding parking, we had issues
regarding drainage and you know,
the pipes and stuff like that.
So I I really think this has
really been very well thought out
and um, it's, it's, it's left a lot of space.
Nothing's really jammed in there.
Um, we're not trying to fit eight pieces,
eight properties into a shoebox.
And I, I really think this has been very well thought
out by your client, Ms.
Birdie. Um, so I would be in favor of this
unless somebody else sees something I don't.
Um, but I just think that in
that neighborhood there should be some kind of housing, um,
to, you know, just, I, I don't even understand why
that's even zoned that way.
Um, it kinda makes, it's kind of, kind of puzzling,
but, um, the, for that neighborhood there,
there should not be some, some, some business.
Um, and god knows what, what business
'cause the list is endless.
But, um, I'm, you know, I'm definitely in favor of this.
Um, I think it's very well thought out, um,
and, uh, very well presented.
So I'll yield the floor. Thank you
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Watts. So I'm really familiar with this area.
I had a business way back that property's been vacant
as long as I can ever remember it.
Um, I actually knew the guy that built the couple of
multi-story apartments near more closer to Mound Road there.
Mm-hmm. And, you know, we wound up with a lot of, I,
for lack of better terms, we wound up with a lot
of scrap property when the freeway came through.
So to be able to develop this, get it on the tax rolls
at least a little more than we're getting now, I I think
that this, this is ideal situation there.
'cause I can attest
that nobody's opening a business over there
unless they wanna see their fate.
So, but I, I think, I think this is a good use of that
and I think it'll work out well. Thank you.
Thank you. Just outta curiosity, Ms.
Birdie, do you know if these units have a basement?
They do not have a basement. Okay.
Usually they, And there, there used to be a requirement
for a basement, but the city changed that ordinance.
Okay. That makes sense.
Usually the duplex and triplexes don't, don't have that.
Um, anytime we can have a zoning designation lower than
what's required, I think it's always a good thing,
especially with the feedback from the community.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Cliff?
Good evening Ms. Birdie. How are you? Good,
Thank you. So I ran,
I ran through and I did a lot of reading
and I do like the appearance of this from the outset.
I just got one question.
Are we building these to put owner occupants in 'em
or are we building them as rentals?
Yes, he's talking about selling them.
And then, um, he was considering that maybe,
um, in the future, making them where there's an association
as a condo, as as owners condos.
Um, that's, he's also playing with that idea.
But currently there's no title restriction for three
or four or five years for them
to be owner or occupied units.
They can be built and rented out.
No, as soon as they're finished, right?
No, no restrictions.
Okay. That's all I have to say. Thank you. I
No other board members have anything else to say.
I'd like to make a motion. Um, I'd like to make a motion
to grant permission to allow a three unit triplex,
multifamily, multifamily.
R three. Use dwelling in a C two zoning district
to allow a lot area of 12,600 square feet.
4,600 square feet less than the ordinance requires.
And three, allow a 24 foot front setback,
11 feet less than the ordinance requires due to the fact
of the size and shape of the, the lots.
And the project, um, requires these variances
to, um, jumpstart the, jumpstart the project
and it's not a detriment to the area. Motion
Court support. We have
a motion by Secretary Jersey. Support by Mr.
Neitz to approve the request as read
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reason stand motion, Mr. Starch?
Uh, yes. For reason stated motion
Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the stated in motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. For the reasons stated
In the motion. Mr.
Clifft,
I'm gonna vote yes for the reasons stated in the motion,
but I do it begrudgingly.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion
Chairman sfa? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion
request has been approved.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
This brings us to item 11.
I am 11. Applicant agree.
Development LLC Josh Bratton, representative Mandy Goss.
Common description,
2 6 1 0 0 gross back Variances.
Requested permission to install the following signage,
a 74.69 inch by
60 inch, 31.12 square foot wall sign on the west
elevation of the building to
a 20.38 inch by 104.56 inch,
14.80 square feet.
Wall sign on the west elevation of the building.
Three, uh, eight inch by 59 inch.
3.27 square foot wall sign on the west
elevation of the building.
Four, uh, 89.63 inch
by 72 inch.
44.81 square feet.
Wall sign on the east elevation of the building.
Five uh, eight inch by 59 inch.
3.27 square foot wall sign on the
east elevation of the building.
Six, uh, 104.56 inch
by 84 inch.
61 square foot wall sign on the north
elevation of the building.
Seven a 104.56 inch
by 84 inch.
61 square foot wall sign on the
south elevation of the building.
Eight a 34 inch by 26 inch.
6.114 square foot wall sign on the south elevation
On the south elevation of the canopy.
Nine a 136 inch by 26 inch.
24.56 square
foot wall sign on the west elevation of the canopy.
Ten one thousand one hundred twenty eight feet
by 36 inch 3,384 square feet.
Design element on the canopy.
11 four gas pumps with 37.81 square feet
of signage each and two gas pumps with 36.08 square feet
of signage each for a total
of 223.40 square feet of pump signage.
12 a second ground sign on the property that is 20 foot high
with a 15 foot setback with a 61.38 inch
by 118.5 inch, 50 point 51 square
feet of signage with condition that the existing ground sign
with the offsite signage will be modified
to remove the upper portion of the signage that was for
plaza and retain the 48 square feet of signage
for the apartment complex that was previously granted.
A variance signage request
includes 200 3249 0.97 square feet
of wall signage, 3,384 square feet of design element
223.440 square feet
of pump signage for an overall total
of 3857.37
square feet of wall signage as well as
a 50 point 51 square foot
and a 48 square foot ground sign for a total of 98.51
square feet of ground signage. Wow.
Good evening. Good evening. My name is Mandy Goss.
I'm with CESO. Address is 1 3 0 6 0 South US Highway 27 in
dewitt, Michigan, 4 8 8 2 0.
Uh, thank you for having us here tonight
to discuss this project and the signage associated with it.
Um, the site plan has been approved at um,
planning commission and part of the condition was
to come in front of you guys for the signage approval.
Um, since obviously it is above what your code does allow,
um, per your code.
I know you guys only allow, um, a total
of one 40 square foot wall sign
and that includes the wall canopy
and the, um, vinyl striping on the canopy.
Um, and then for the, uh, freestanding,
it's a 75 1 sign at 75 square feet.
So, um, the request that we have in front of you today, um,
I'll start with the freestanding sign just to kind
of point out what is there today.
Um, currently out there right now there is a 228 square foot
sign at the corner.
Um, it's right at the, uh, main corner, um, at Frasso
and Gross v Um,
and with that sign currently today, um, we are looking
to take the larger blue sign off the top,
which is 180 square feet
and we have to leave the, uh, Regency Club arrow sign.
It is an easement and it's part of the agreement
with the purchase agreement with the seller.
Um, so that has to remain on site. We cannot remove that.
So with this request, we're looking
to remove the old variance that allows the larger, uh,
228 square feet
and put in a new variance for just the um,
Regency arrow sign at the corner,
and then a second sign for the, um, Speedway,
which is a goalpost sign that is, uh,
just over 50 square feet.
It was 50.51 square feet, um, in size.
So if it was not for this add, this one sign that we have
to keep due to the purchase agreement as it sits today,
the sign that we're proposing would actually meet
the size requirements.
So I just kinda wanted to point that out.
Um, where we're proposing our sign is actually in the middle
of our frontage, um, along gross spec.
So with that, uh, we we're not going
to impact the existing sign.
We're gonna leave it exactly where it sits, just cut the top
of it off where the blue is
and leave the existing arrow as it sits.
Um, so I just wanted to point that out.
So that is the request as it pertains
to the freestanding signage.
Now I'll go into the wall signage.
Um, what we're uh, looking for is
to have a Speedway sign on all four sides of the building.
There is parking on all four sides of this building.
Um, with this request, there is on the two um, sides
of the building, uh, there is a seven foot tall, uh,
Speedway logo sign.
You can kind of see it here on the two ends in the back.
That sign is a smaller, the rear one is,
sorry, only six feet tall.
And then the one in the front is actually five feet tall
with the Speedway channel letter sign.
Underneath it, there is some a welcome vinyl sign on the
rear end, the front on above the doorways, um,
there is access to this building from the back of the site
and from the front of the site.
There is not an access on the side.
So just to point that out, um, the, again, the large number
that you see here, the 3,384 square feet, that is the,
um, standard gray striping that you see.
Um, and the vinyl white red stripe on the top
and the vinyl gray stu striping you see on the speedway
canopy, it's pretty prototypical to the brand of Speedway.
Um, so that is, that larger, again, that is just vinyl.
It is not lit or not illuminated.
Um, so that is the request for the vinyl striping.
Um, and then the, uh, gas pumps,
again, we're pretty prototypical to
what you would see at a Speedway gas station.
It has the s logo sign on the bottom of the dispenser,
and then it has a valance on the top of the dispenser
for different advertisement like this type
of offerings that are there.
So again, um, pretty prototypical signage
that you would see at a Speedway site.
Um, we look forward to coming to the neighborhood
and we would hope that we can get some
of the signage approved so
that it can be a visual for the vehicles.
I know gross Spec is very heavily traveled with multiple,
multiple lanes, so it is important for vehicles
to know which lane to get over
before they get there so they're not
jerking over last second cutting somebody off trying
to enter the site.
That's never fun. So signage is definitely
important part of the project.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Um, Mr. Chair, I just have a quick question for Steve,
if you could please, sir.
Yes, sir. So I, I see there's a bunch
of existing variances on the property, um,
one operated medical training facility, um,
ano you know, a few others regarding signage.
Is there any way to,
Um, I guess take some of this off with the new project?
I mean, is this all gonna be kind of rescinded
with the new project or,
Um, basically we asked for everything they wanted.
Uh, I think the existing ground signs even being asked
for here, even though it has a variance,
so you can rescind all of that.
I'm just trying to clean stuff up, so
I I appreciate that.
So a hundred percent I believe they are willing
to rescind everything that is there, um,
Going forward. That's
on the record. That is that accurate, ma'am? Yes.
As as long as we can get that regency,
the biggest thing is we need to have
that Regency Arrow sign remaining,
which is the 48 square foot F corner, as well
as our speedway, um, goal post sign.
So we will like the 180 square foot, that blue one on top of
that arrow sign, um, that we will be removing. Um, yeah,
I actually, I actually don't even see a variance
for it in, in the packet. Is there,
I see it one, I assume it's this big shopping center sign.
Yeah, the 180 square foot. Okay.
Yep. Yeah, the regency sign is a, um,
off-premise sign that does have a variance as well.
So if it's not written that way, it would probably have
to be modified to say that, to retain that off-premise sign,
To retain the off-premise sign
and then relinquish everything else and
Then relinquish everything else.
Thank you, Steve.
Again, as long as they're good with it,
I'm good with it.
The attorney might want to agree with me
or disagree with me too, but
No, I agree.
And I, I I think it, it cleans things up moving forward.
Any other comments from the board?
This looks like a pretty routine
Mr. Chair
Request other than the second, uh,
monument side. Mr. Cliff? Yeah,
I just want to go on the record.
Our, our standing ordinances allow for a total
of 115 square feet of signage at this property.
And what the petitioner is asking for is a total
of 3955.86 square feet
of signage for the property,
which leads us to a 3840.86 square foot
of variance that we're gonna have to grant in order to, uh,
accommodate, uh, commercial customs
and general practices that are now in place nationwide due
to our antiquated sign ordinances and I yield the floor.
Any other comments from the board or motions?
I I have another quick question for Steve.
Um, regarding the design
element portion?
Um, I think yes, just like, just like Harbor Freight,
I think we had it as a design element as well.
Does that go with the land forever or is it
That goes with the land,
but it cannot be, it can only be design element
and cannot be verbiage or direct
Advertis or actual signage or Yes.
Things of that nature. Okay. Thanks for the clarification.
Thank you. Whoever makes the motion tonight,
Whoever makes the motion, could just read it at
as presented or written on the agenda.
It doesn't have to read, you don't
have to read every line item.
Is that correct, ma'am? Attorney? That
Is correct. With the
addition of, um, rescind all previous,
previous vari variances, but
For retaining the off offsite sign.
Offite off-premises sign? Correct.
Okay. I'll make the motion.
I'll make a motion to grant the petitioner
the variances requested as, as presented or written, um,
and to relinquish all current variances on the property
except for the one to retain the off-premise sign
granted at the meeting of ten eight eighty six
Sub-board. Mr.
Is that, does that sound accurate? Correct. Is that
Okay? Just the lower portion
of that sign,
Just the lower portion of that sign, correct.
Um, Due the fact of the size and shape it a lot
and it's not a detriment to the area
Support. Mr. Assessor,
We have a motion by Secretary Jersey support by Mr.
Assessor to approve the request is read
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reason stated in
the motion. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason. State of the motion Mr.
Cliff,
I'm Gonna vote no because it's an overreach
and excess compared to what the ordinance states.
Mr. Watts? Yes.
For the reason State of the motion Mr. Lindsey? Yes. For the
Reason. State in the motion.
Mr. Stave Are
Oke No, along with Mr.
Cliff saying it is excessive signage. Chairman Sefa?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you. Thank you.
This brings us to item 12.
Item 12, applicant sheets incorporated by Andrew Siki.
Hopefully I said that right.
Representative, um, zoning resources.
Rebecca Green, common description.
3 1 9 2 5 VANDYKE for requested permission
to install the following signage, A one
a 74.31 inch high
by 62.5 inch, 32.25 square foot menu board sign
with a 17.25 inch under clearance
to a 13 foot high order point sign with a total
of 42.3 square feet of signage and a
and an 11.75 inch under clearance.
Three, uh, 18 foot high clear clearance sign
with two feet by 11.33 feet.
22.66 square feet signage
and an 11 foot under clearance for a total
of 97.21 square feet of ground signage for items one, two,
and three in addition to a proposed
104.4 square feet square foot pylon sign,
which has previously,
which has a previous variance Overall ground signage
to be 201.61 square feet.
Four gas pump signage, 12.48 square feet.
Val signage area, 12.125.
Skirt signage area 24.6 square feet per
24.6 square feet per gas pump on seven gas pumps
for a total of 172.2 square feet of pump signage.
Five a 22 inch by nine foot,
16.50 square foot wall sign on the east
elevation of the building.
Six a 22 inch by nine foot,
16.5 square foot wall sign on the
west elevation of the building.
Seven a 19.63 inch by eight foot,
13.09 square foot wall sign on the east elevation
of the canopy
and eight of 19.63 inch by eight foot.
13.09 square foot wall sign on the west elevation
of the canopy for a total of 231.38 square feet
of wall signage for items 4, 5, 6, 7, and eight.
Good evening. If you could start with your name
and address for the record, please.
Yes. Uh, my name is Kyle InBody at 8 4 1 Long Meadow Lane
in Findlay, Ohio, um, out of town tonight.
Thank you. Please tell us about your request.
Yes, I'm here on behalf of Sheets
and uh, I work with Rebecca.
She had a family emergency pop up
and we kind of sorted out
that I would be here in her place prior to this evening.
Uh, so here with sheets, it's very similar to the previous,
uh, variance request that you have heard we're coming in
with a gas station and based on the nuances
of the zoning code in Warren, it's not exactly, uh,
laid out in a way that is written for commercial use.
That would include a drive through a retail store
and a petroleum station, such as the sheets layout.
And some of those hardships come from looking at, uh,
looking at sign pumps for the, uh, wa the ground sign area
or looking at drive through signs as part of the drive,
uh, ground signs.
So just a quick summary.
We went through this, uh, proposal with sheets
and while looking at the Warren zoning code, we realized
what the intent of the zoning code was to keep kind
of a clean and limited cluttery sign.
So we went through our typical sheets signage packages
and we dialed it way back.
Normally you would see a 24 7 signs
MTO additional signage on the pumps as a standard
with other service stations throughout the country.
And we cleaned it back, uh, cleaned it up to be
what we rec we believe to be the minimum adequate signage
with that signage being the branding on the pumps
for our sheets station, the sheets logos on the wall sign,
and then the drive through signage
to help facilitate the traffic flow in the drive through.
Uh, everything else we had removed.
Um, I think pretty
much that sums up the request of our variance.
Does anyone have any specific questions about any one
of our signs or any part of our layout?
We'll, we'll address that after we Okay.
Close the public portion of the meeting.
Do you have anything else you'd like
to add before I do that?
Not at this time. Thank you.
Is there anyone in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I
close the public portion of the meeting.
I'll turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair. Mr. Starz?
I guess I just have, um, one question just
because, you know, there's been a number of sheets,
locations that have been in front of us.
So I know like at the mound location at,
at the Ndra location, we've given
variances on the trash enclosure,
but we've never seen anything on signs.
So here I see. So for signs, I'm just wondering, I,
and not to say that you're, you're an individual
that might be involved in that,
but I'm just wondering, are we going
to see them come back at the other locations asking
for signs now or, or
I'll let you speak.
Yes. They, they will be coming at each location for signs,
um, as the permit processing
and all that is, is a different process for signage
and site plan.
Usually when you have new developments, they always come
separately for the two different aspects.
Um, I know Brian is currently working on
the one for 12 Mile, I believe right now.
So I believe that signed packages is in and on his desk.
Okay. I, I believe that to be correct,
there are several of these Keith's proposals.
I work throughout the Midwest on Keith projects
and there are several in this town
that are, we kind of went through.
That's the only question I really had
Mr. Chair, Mr. Lindsay.
So I know,
Uh, We get a little bit hesitant when
We see a, a total amount of signage and,
and square footage of signage.
Um, I think this is really tastefully done however, um,
and I was actually driving from Ohio, uh,
on route two coming north
and I saw a sheets being installed there
and it was really tasteful.
It's one of the nicest gas stations, so I really think
that the city would benefit from it.
Um, so I know we get a little queasy seeing so much signage,
but seeing the layouts, I mean, it's, it's well done.
It's, I know it's, it's branded all over the country.
Um, I think this would be a, a really good addition.
I yield the floor.
Thank you. Any other comments from the board?
Mr. Chair, real quick. I have a
quick question for Steve again.
Sorry, Steve. Um, so it says there's a,
a variance granted already and the, for a lon sign.
Is that, is that, is that correct?
I'm trying to figure out which one it,
Which date are you looking at
Which date it is, but it doesn't appear to be on here.
You have right there. So I see one
for 360 square feet, 30 feet tall,
and then there's one for 20, one
for 26.6 by 156 inch, 28.8 square feet.
Um, I know it was Pam's existing sign.
That was the one that was probably
I Another
One January 8th, 97.
Is that the one? 'cause it's we 360 square feet and he's,
So we can, if the petitioner agrees, we can resid
all the previous variances besides the dumpster enclosure
and the, is there a chain link one too?
Yeah, they're both in included on the same variance. Yeah,
Except for the ones issued in
2004.
Yeah, everything could be rescinded except the one granted
on 11 13 20 24.
Would the petitioner be okay with that?
Yes. As long, yes.
I have no objections to this.
If we rescind everything except the 2024 variance.
And the last thing we would want is a coin operated
amusement device on the, on, on the property.
So I mean it's, that
Makes two of us Just another money making the idea.
So anyway, but I'll yield the floor.
Any other comments or
Nobody else has anything to say?
I'll make a motion. Um, I'd like to make a motion
to grant the petitioner the variances requested
as presented on the agenda
and to rescind the variances granted on
January 8th, 1997, August 14th, 1996,
March 25th, 1981.
And, and the variance granted on
7 8 81, um, due to the fact that the size
and shape of the lot and new project, um, needs,
uh, sign variance and that detriment area
Support, we have a motion by Secretary Jersey support
by Mr. Perry to approve the request as read
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For reason State
of motion Mr. Perry? Yes.
For reason, state of the motion. Mr.
Starch? Yes. For reason. State in the
Motion Mr. Assessor?
Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Clifft? No, it's excessive.
According to our ordinance,
it's almost three times what's, uh, allowed.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reasons stated of
The motion. Mr. Lindsay?
Yes. For the reasons stated of the
Motion Chairman Sefa? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the
motion, the request has been approved.
Thank you. Thank you.
Last but not least, this brings us to item 13.
Applicant Metro, Metro Signs
and Lighting Representative Paul Dieters at Metro Detroit.
Signs description 2 3 8 3 0 gross spec variances.
Request of permission. Two one.
Install two five foot two inch by 50 foot.
258.33 square feet.
Each awnings with signage on them for a total
of 516.66 square feet
of wall signage two retain a 78 inch by 120 inch.
65 square foot paint of wall sign on west elevation. Three.
Retain a 24 inch by 72 inch,
12 square foot wall sign on East elevation
Floor retained 78 inch by 120 inch.
65 square foot painted wall sign on East elevation.
Five Retained 257 feet
of 10 inch high decorative design elements, stripes
around perimeter building existing wall signage
of 142 square feet
and proposed 516.66 square feet
of awning wall signage tolling 658.66 square feet
with an additional 257 feet of 10 inch high.
214.17 square feet of design element for a grand total
of 872.83 square feet of wall signage.
Good evening. Good evening. My name is Paul Dieters.
I'm with Metro Signs and Lighting, excuse me.
1 1 4 4 4 Col Avenue in Warren.
And with me, uh, this evening is, is Mr.
Darren Oti, the owner of the property.
Good evening. Uh, 23 8 30 Gross back Highway. Warren.
Thank you. Okay. Please tell us about your request. Sure,
You bet. Thank you for your, your
consideration this evening.
Um, we're before you, uh, tonight
because of a, uh, a severe windstorm that took place,
uh, a year ago.
And, uh, since then, Mr.
Odi, uh, has, has been working with his insurance company.
In fact, just this week the roof
of his building was finally replaced.
So he's been, he's been going on at this, uh, for a year.
And, uh, part of the damage that was done is
that the awnings on the front
and the back of his, uh, building one
of them was completely destroyed
and actually blew up onto the roof of the building.
And the other one was torn.
And what we're before you this evening is just to try
to replace exactly what was there prior
to the storm having taken place.
And I know, well, while it may sound like a lot of signage,
we, we would ask that, uh, see, is
that it has been there a long time.
Um, they've been in business since
1969 in the city of Warren.
They do a nice job keeping up with their facilities.
Um, and the other thing is there's no, excuse me,
there's no ground signage at the site.
It's an irregular shaped pie shaped lot
with very difficult site lines.
So, and I think what, what's there is appropriate, uh,
and it's not really overstated for what, uh,
what they're looking to achieve. So thank you.
Thank you. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it, turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair, real quick, uh,
to the petitioner, I do Mr. Dieters.
Great, thank you. Um, is this gonna be illuminated?
I know the, the, probably the Napa sign's illuminated, um,
but the awnings are gonna be non illuminated or
The awning is illuminated.
Oh, it is illuminated. Uh, and as, as is
as were the previous ones.
But really the only part that lights up is the text of it.
So, uh, the vast majority, more than two thirds
of it is really non, it's just a blue field. So
You do, you do raise a good point though
about it's beyond unique.
I mean, anything on gross spec is, is a challenge to, to try
to deal with property line wise and stuff like that.
And this place has been there as long as I can remember.
Um, I've been in this town a long time.
Um, but to, um, you know, to his, to his
statement of trying to keep, uh, some kind
of advertisement on a building, it's, it's kind of tricky,
um, in that location, um, with cars whizzing
by trying to make the light and all that.
I mean, go by the building, probably not even see it with,
without any signage
and don't even know there's a building there.
So, um, IIII think this is very tastefully done.
I know your business does great work.
Um, and, and, um, it's very professional
and, um, the, the site's always been clean.
Anytime I've driven by it, I've never seen anything,
um, anything out of order.
Um, you know, it's, it, it's a tough little piece
of property, um, to try to get good advertisement on.
Um, initially I wasn't for retaining, um, the rent to wreck,
um, logos that are on, on the side of the building.
Um, but again, how else, I mean,
how else are you gonna advertise?
You know, what, what he does, he does multiple things there.
Um, he's not selling cars, he's renting.
He's got an auto repair place, tire repair place.
So multiple facets to the business that need
to be expressed in a, in a tasteful way.
Um, which i, i,
I think this actually does while incorporating the old
aspects of the building as well.
So, um, again, it's,
it is a big number just like the last, last couple.
But, um, to, um, you know, to the petitioner's defense,
I I I could, I kinda see what he's talking about.
So, um, does, does the canopy stay on all night
or do you shut it off with business end of business or?
We do leave it on at night because night
vision is, is just as hard.
In fact, I it's being without it for a year, it's incredible
how many people, you know, in our neighborhood.
I think there's a lot of rental houses compared to
where it used to be permanent residents.
How many people say, I didn't even know you were here.
So that's the problem.
Night vision is a great thing to have Of course.
When people are flying by at 55
Right, right. On both sides.
So yeah.
And the other thing I like to add is that pie shape
and we're so close to the street,
even the side view is you couldn't put signs on the side
to really be seen coming down the street on either
gross back or shaner.
Right. And that's a big part of the problem, right. So yeah,
You've got, I mean, unless you're sitting
at the light, you don't really,
Right. I mean,
it's such an odd shape building.
How do you, how do you get the people to see you? Exactly.
Uh, I I, I agree.
Um, so just with that, that, that's my comments on it.
So I'll yield the floor.
Thank you. Any other comments tonight?
I think we have been pretty generous tonight
with giving out signs and this has been there for a while
and he's just replace what he had
and it's gonna be a lot nicer than the, the older horn sign.
And thank you for taking the Goodyear off
the side of the building too, so
Appreciate. Yeah, we did
Appreciate that. It's
fine.
I do too. Trust me. Any other
comments or motions tonight?
No other board members have anything else to say.
I'd like to make a motion. Um, I'd like to make a motion
to grant the petitioner, um, the variance is requested as,
as, as written on the agenda due to the fact,
uh, the size, the shape of the lot.
It's not a detriment to the area
Support. Mr. Chris Assessor.
We have a motion by Secretary Jersey. Support by Mr.
Assessor to approve the request is read
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. For
the reason stated in
the motion. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion. Mr.
Starve? Uh, yes. For a reason. Stated in the motion. Mr.
Cliff 8,872 square feet.
That's 21 times what's allowed by ordinance.
I'm gonna have to vote. No. Mr. Watts? Yes.
For the reason stated of the motion. Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion and chairman?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you very Much. Thank you. Thank you very much
And I appreciate all your hard work.
You guys don't have an easy job.
Thank You. Thank you, sir.
New business. Any new business tonight?
Don't have any motion to adjourn
Support. Motion
to adjourn support.
We have a motion by secretary Jersey. Support by Mr.
Mr to adjourn. All in favor? Aye. Meeting adjourn. 8 58.