I like to call to order a regular meeting
of the zoning board of appeals for Wednesday, August 27th.
Please rise for the pledge of allegiance.
P The pledge allegiance to, to the flag,
the United States of America,
and two to the Republic from the which stands.
One Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty
And justice for all.
Number three. Roll call.
Mr. Green. Present. Mr. Perry? Present.
Mr. Lindsey? I'm
Present.
Mr. Clifft Present. Mr. Watts? Here. Mr. Assessor present.
Mr. Jersey's present. Mr. Faye?
Absent and chairman starch,
Uh, present.
I'd like to make a motion to excuse Mr. Sia. Support.
Support.
All in favor of approving David Aya for today's meeting.
Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Okay.
Next takes us to adoption of the agenda.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion
to adopt the agenda as written
Support.
Okay. I have a motion by Mr. Jersey Support.
Uh, I, Mr. Watts, was it? Mm-hmm.
I wanna make sure I heard correctly. All in favor? Aye. Aye.
Anybody opposed?
Okay. Thank you.
Number next is approval of the minutes of July 9th. First,
Mr. Vice chair, then hit
the email. I think it was what today?
And I know I didn't have a chance to look
'em over. I looked at July 9th,
um, today.
So I, I'll make a motion to approve, uh,
the regular meeting minutes from July 9th, 2025.
Support Mr. Assessor. So we have a motion by Mr.
Jersey, support by Mr.
Assessor to approve the minutes of July 9th. All in favor?
Aye. Anybody opposed?
Okay. Those are approved.
And next, uh,
July 23rd minutes.
Mr. Chair? Yeah. Make a motion to table the approval
of the minutes for July 23rd
and August 15th to a future date
Support.
Okay. We have a motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by Mr. Lindsay to
postpone the July 23rd and August 13th.
Minutes to the next meeting.
What, what is the date? Date on the
Next meeting? Uh, August 27th,
Mr. Chair.
Today's August 27th,
Or, I'm sorry. Uh,
September 10th, sorry.
Okay, so we, uh, all in favor a aye, aye.
Is anybody opposed? So therefore we're approved.
The minutes of July 23rd
and August 13th on September 10th
takes us to item number six.
Item six, applicant Karen Miracle,
representative Michael Miracle.
Description, 1 1 1 4 1 13 mile variances requested
permission to retain a 24 foot, 24 foot
by point, 24 foot, six foot
by 73 foot gravel stone area for parking in the front yard
Is the petitioner present
and for all petitioners.
When you approach the podium star with your name
and address for the record.
And then you can go into the reasons for your request.
Uh, can you press the button on the speaker? Okay.
Michael Miracle. Okay, thank you.
Uh, I live at 5 8 2 0 3 Omo Road,
but the house I was raised in
1 1 1 4 1 13 mile Road.
Um, I just need a variance for the, uh, parking area.
Okay? Okay. Yeah.
Thank you for that explanation.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Not seeing any or close the public? There's one back there.
Oh, where? One back there. Oh.
Then if you can please approach. And
so if you could just stand aside to the letter to Microphone
and if we could get your name and address also. Yeah.
I'm Shelly Ling, 3 1 0 5 5 Shaw Drive right
around the corner from them.
We've been in the neighborhood about 30 some years.
Next, when we first moved in, Mr.
Miracle with his landscaping took care of us.
And, uh, even if you go by at any time of the year,
it's all landscaped.
It's, you can't, you don't even realize it's gravel there.
So I just wanted to let you know. It is nice and neat.
Okay. Thank you very much for those comments.
Any other, any other audience members wishing to comment?
Okay, that's Matt seeing. Any others?
I will close the public portion
and turn it over to the board for discussion and questions.
But if I could, I mean, oh, go ahead, Mr. Retz.
So my question is, I've lived over that way a long time.
I go by there all the time. How long has
that parking area been there like that?
When we, when I was one years old, we moved in
and the area, there was always two parking areas there.
So it was 40% gravel in 1969.
And there was two rotted fruit trees
and an overgrown garden.
And it stayed a garden until
1977.
And then it was gravel and grass
and then it around 1983,
it was just all gravel.
It just didn't make sense to have the grass there,
especially with my other siblings.
I mean, I have four other, uh, brothers and sisters
Understand. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
So a quick question. Yes.
Uh, so you running the business outta the house?
I store one trailer in the backyard
because all my customers is, uh, one residence.
So when I drove by, there was a trailer
and employees in the driveway in the morning.
So I like the meeting there or what. So it appears as
Though, no, it's usually not a trailer.
If we're taking off, there's a trailer. Yeah.
If we're leaving the house, I have
to leave the house with the trailer.
But I don't know what day on Saturday morning
I showed up with a trailer.
'cause uh, I had to cut one of my FR friend's, uh,
house on a Saturday.
But, uh, there's normally not a trailer on the,
in the, in the front of the house.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can I make a comment, please, Mr.
Jersey? Yep. So, common question I have is like,
because I know that gravel lot's been there for as long
as I can remember, but I'm not a wild fan
of approving gravel to stay there.
I mean, I wish, if anything, I mean, I don't even know if
that's a solution you would think about.
It's like, why can't that
one car driveway be turned into like a two car driveway?
Because if you had a two car driveway
that would double your space in front,
it would go into part of that gravel space.
But, you know, might not be as much parking,
but it would actually, I would think with the length of
that driveway, you could fit quite a few cars
onto a two car driveway.
I don't know if that was ever something you
might have considered or,
I don't.
My mom's 84, she's,
it's always been there since 83.
So I don't know. She
doesn't understand what the fuss is because she was born
and raised on a Longview Street a quarter mile away.
And that's a gravel road.
This area's kind of large.
It would, it wouldn't be sensible to make a two driveway.
It would actually make more sense
to make the entire area cement.
And that would take most of her savings.
And the area behind the house, they, they,
they placed seven houses around our house
and they didn't put a drain.
So it, it actually does flood there in the spring.
And I believe the gravel helps with the flooding.
Mm-hmm. But since I know people have
mentioned your, so are you still,
because it sounds like,
so is your landscaping still run out of that house?
I store the one trailer in the backyard.
I moved the, uh, address.
I mean, I, I started the business when I was 13, so yes,
it started at the house
because I was, uh, my first one was 13
and then I had, uh, a few more when I was 14.
But anyways, I've always had the business there.
Um, it's shrank a lot.
Back in the day I used to have three crews.
Now I only have the one trailer
and it's, it's just being stored in the back
because all my customers are in warrant.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just always have a concern.
'cause once we give approval for such a large lot, it stays
with the property even after it's sold.
And then we have no recourse in the future
against any future owners parking, who knows
what out there, Mr. Chair, Mr. Jersey?
Um, so the one thing I noticed in the backup material,
which kind of was odd, um,
is there was enforcement on this property back in
2018, I believe
it looks like, from, you know, four 30 2018.
Um, at that point they, the city had noticed
that they were running a business out of the house, um,
all the way down to, um, you know,
five one still uncorrected, um, five 14 still uncorrected,
and then six one, um,
follow up inspection by Everett Murphy.
Um, it was still uncorrected
and poof, it was gone
until
2024 pops back up.
Mm-hmm. So how does something get missed
by our lead loaning inspector doesn't get followed through
and just disappears for eight years of
unbeknownst to anybody,
and now all of a sudden it's back on the radar.
Now I'm very familiar with, with that house too.
Um, I live in the neighborhood
that's been a gravel lot as long as I can remember.
I think at one point maybe the one
owner had a little garden at some point, maybe on in
that stretch, and then they filled it
back in with, with stone.
I could be wrong. Um,
but that's been that way for
as long as I can remember.
Um, we have left the, you know, we did pass, um,
we did leave, uh, a lady that was off of Razzo.
She had a circle drive that was, you know, she, we,
we told her she didn't have to to pave, you know, the rest
of her driveway too, because it was more aesthetically
pleasing to the lot because it's kind
of an original house on the lot, on the, on the street.
I feel like this is the same case with this,
this piece of property.
I mean, if you look at it, it's
completely unique to everything else.
I believe it's still, if you look at the rest
of the other backup material, it claims
that it was in a state or like one
of the first houses in inside the neighborhood.
So if that was the case, they built it, you know,
the neighborhood out around that, that house.
And to me, I think the biggest thing, it's not really,
I mean, I know we've been battling about, um, you know,
concrete driveways and people's front yards
and stuff of that nature.
But the gentleman is right, it is a, it's a,
it's a little lake there every time it rains.
Um, there is, I don't know what kind
of drainage situation you have going on, on your property,
but I've noticed it over the years, like right,
almost down close, closer to the sidewalk.
It's, it's a pool.
Um, so would, I mean, and,
and to pave all that you're looking at,
that's, that's big money.
It's not just a couple slabs.
It's, it's a pretty extensive piece of land to try
and, um, to try and pave.
You know, I'm not, I, um, not happy
that he is been running a business out of his house, um,
you know, with the city knowing about it, um, not unchecked,
and then it disappears for eight years off the radar.
And now they're, they're, they're, they're, they're,
they're kind of back on the radar, um,
because now we're starting to do things right in town.
And that to me is the biggest kind of head scratcher.
Um, but to me, I,
I'm just inclined to try just
to let him keep it at this point.
I mean, I, I know he is running a business outta his house,
but there's been a lot of things
that go wrong with this property.
I think the city's completely dropped the ball
and now they're making him jump through all these hoops
to try to retain this, um,
when this should have probably been nipped in the
butt a decade ago.
So with that, I'll yield the floor.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr.
I got some more questions if I can to Mr. Watchpoint.
So Steve, I'm wondering,
you've been around here forever too.
It's been like that, like you say,
as long as I can remember.
How did we end up here today
With the, I'm not officially sure.
Um, we get most of our enforcements from complaints,
uh, other than inspections if we're inspecting a house.
Okay. Um, Most of the stuff comes in as complaint.
We are, we're busy. We don't go out looking for stuff.
Property maintenance does go out looking for stuff.
So it could have come from them as well.
Um, but I'm not sure where it came from.
So, in reading what I read, am I, I'm gonna assume
that this was found because you had a complaint
of running a business outta the house?
Uh, that's what I believe the complaint was, yes.
Okay. Um, all right.
I don't know if this would be a question to you
or to the city attorney,
but I know that's been like
that forever and ever.
And I'm, and I know that a variance will go
with the property, which we want to be careful of.
But is there a way that we can, for a lack of better terms,
grandfather this until the house was, to se, was
to change property owners?
When, um, Mr.
Miracle came to the counter, I talked to him
and I asked him if he was running the business outta there.
I think he was very upfront with me.
And he said his, his trailer is stored there,
that he doesn't live there.
He lives out in Great Township, great township.
Um, and that's all he does is store it there.
I says, is it on hard surface there?
Because you can have a recreational vehicle,
a trailer on the property, he says,
basically takes a lot of the equipment home,
but he does leave the trailer there.
So I think the running a business is not there anymore.
Um, per se, the question that we came down
to in dumbing it down was the gravel parking,
which has been an issue and everything else.
Our enforcers, when we go out there for a complaint,
we look at everything on the property too.
Understand. So If we were out there for the complaint
of a business, we're gonna take everything into, uh,
account and go from there.
Right. And, and the way I'm looking at this
by his comments, he's not technically
running his business there.
He just keeps the trailer on a hard surface
behind the fenced in area
and leaves from there every day, which we know there's a lot
of people doing that in the city.
And I don't know that I necessarily see a problem with that
because a lot of people have utility trailers
for whatever reason, or in rv.
So I guess,
so my question is still,
can we grandfather what's there as long
as it's not a business to stay with the property
until it was to change hands?
That's my question.
Um, I will defer to the city attorney,
but I don't believe so
because once anything is granted there it was.
Okay. And the ordinance was in effect prior to
the dates that Mr.
Miracle gave. Okay.
So it wouldn't be a non-conforming situation. Fair
Enough.
Alright, Mr. Chairman, Mitch?
Yes. Yes, Mr. Cleft.
Good evening, sir. I got a couple questions.
Since April of 2018, when, uh,
I guess when somebody noticed the banner in your front yard
about running a business from the residence since 2018,
have you ever been served with a cease
and desist order from the city of Warner
to stop operating a business outta that location?
No. I was told to take down the sign.
No, that's fine. That, oh, that's all I, I just tried
to make a point back to, uh, back to a couple
of my colleagues points.
Um, June 1st, 2018, everything seems to drop off the radar
until just recently again.
So, um, I'm kind of in the line of thinking with a few
of my, uh, colleagues on the board
who don't really necessarily, except for the longevity
of the, of the proposed variance staying
with the property in perpetuity.
And I personally don't even really have a problem with that.
This is located not in the front yard.
It, well, I guess it's still considered the front yard, uh,
but it's not right in front.
It's not right in front of the house.
It's not on your front lawn, so to say.
Kind of like your side, side yard, side lawn.
And I know it's been there, it's been there for a long,
long, long time.
And it, and it bothers me that it looks like this came up
as a running business outta your residence, uh, issue.
And now you're not even staying there.
You're storing one trailer on a hard surface in the yard
behind a fence you can't even see through, um,
just on the face of it, I, I actually don't have an issue
with this, uh, at all.
So I'm gonna be in favor of voting Yes.
For your variance. If, if and when a motion comes about.
Thank you for answering my questions.
Oh, on top of that, I didn't see anybody in opposition
in the gallery or no letters from anybody saying
that they were in opposition of this remaining.
And, uh, he pointed out seven houses right
around the perimeter of his mother's property built in.
And nobody in, nobody in the audience, nobody in the gallery
to speak against it.
So with that, I'll yield the floor,
Mr. Chair.
Yes, Mr. Green.
So it would appear that somebody's in a opposition to it,
because this is complaint driven.
And secondly, there's five existing violations.
And I guess the one that bothers me, bothers me the most is
that you're, you live somewhere else,
but you choose to store your
equipment in the city of Warren.
I mean, is it
because they won't let you store it where you're at?
It would be unsafe, a truck
and trailer going 20 to 25 miles
just to come back to the same spot.
It's a lot of wear and tear.
It's little understand little bit the way people drive.
I guess I'm just concerned with the fact that
we're, we're storing it warn because Warren lets you,
and that that bothers me a little bit.
And we have five existing violations that we argued
before as a board.
Violations shouldn't exist
before we move on some properties.
Am I allowed to add anything or No? Absolutely.
Nobody can see the trailer.
Back when I was a kid, the inspector said,
build a wood fence all the way around.
Nobody can see it, everything's fine. No,
I get it. That it's all, that's,
it's all disc combinator. I get that.
Okay. So thank you
Mr. Chair.
Yes, Mr. Uh, Mr. Lindsey.
So I, I appreciate the, the comments
that the board's made.
Uh, I guess maybe I'm not in favor of this
because I, I look at it and it's like, okay, yeah.
So the city was enforcing, uh, for years,
it looks like maybe they stopped enforcing.
We really don't, we don't have that information.
Um, but whether the, the city is enforcing
or not, the, this is out of, out
of ordinance today as it sits.
So I look at this as an opportunity to correct that.
Um, just because the, the city has missed it
or has allowed it to continue, it's in front of us today.
Um, so, so I would look at this as an opportunity, uh,
to correct something that that's out of ordinance.
Um, my biggest concern is, is, is the violations.
I think everybody's echoed that comment,
but we have multiple violations over the years, uh,
of operating a business.
Obviously this parking lot in,
in the front yard has been used to, to do that.
Uh, so I'm not in favor.
This seems like an economic situation, uh,
that the petitioner is, is imposing on himself.
So I'm not gonna be going Yes for this tonight.
The, the business doesn't
Thank Mr. Lindsay.
Well, there wasn't a question from Mr. Lindsay
to the petitioner, so, okay.
Any other comments or discussion?
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Suer,
Maybe through you to the city attorney, um,
'cause Mr. Watts is brought up, maybe grandfathering this in
until the property sold.
Is that something we could consider and add in?
No, I concur with, with Mr. Pont.
We couldn't put a limit on it like that.
It, it would forever run with the land.
Thank you. I yield on the floor. Mm-hmm.
I just wanted to add one comment.
So it, it, I mean, I know it's been there forever,
but it'd be nice to actually be able to clean up along
that street, you know, if it was on gravel
behind the fence where nobody saw it.
That would be one thing. Here it is in the front lawn
and in front of the house area.
I mean, not in front of the house,
but it's in the front lawn.
And Well, and,
and technically, even though yes, he's,
he say he is only storing the trailer there.
Well, the business in a way is
still being run out of that house.
I mean, just because he is picking it up from there,
bringing it there at the end of the day,
that would happen to a trailer
Anywhere. You know, the,
But that's why I wanted to comment. I
Kind of, yeah, I understand what you're saying,
but I also want
to point out the city's dropped the ball on this for
how many years and has, has blatantly known about it.
I mean, it's not like he's buried in a cul-de-sac.
He's on 13 mile. How many inspectors over how many years
drove by this place and did nothing.
So, and now they're going to kind of rake him over to coal's
because it's some,
somebody said something in the neighborhood.
Um, now, now, yes,
he has been running a business outta his house.
Nobody's come, come up to, to complain about it.
I understand Mr. Lindsay's point of view too, about trying
to self-correct, you know, a a a a property
and trying to get it in compliance,
but with that compliance, it's, it's just like the same
with making people rip out, you know, rip out cement, you,
you're talking a big swath of cement.
And this is a huge investment for an 84-year-old lady.
And, you know, um, to come up with.
Now, I hope he, you know, he's been running a business
for many, many years and I'm sure he is got some cash
reserve, but at this point, I feel like we're,
we're kind of bailing the city now for
their mail thesis on this pro this, this, this,
this piece of property.
Um, and to, you know, to me, I think it'd be more burdensome
economically to try
and put some kind of, some, you know,
good, good cement there.
And to me it's, it'd just be a huge investment.
This is just, to me, I'm in favor of this just
because the city dropped the ball.
Um, but I, you do make great points.
I I do agree with the points that you made.
Um, I agree with the points
that pretty much everybody's made,
but again, we're put in this position to try
and clean, clean up the city's mess, so to speak.
Um, but I just feel like it's,
it is lived there for so long.
He's never really ever had any, any equipment out in front
of the property over the years that it has been a business.
Which to my recollection, I think when I started seeing
lawnmowers, it was probably, probably somewhere
after nine 11, 2001 ish, somewhere in there.
I could be wrong, but somewhere in that timeframe. Um,
1983.
Oh, okay. Well that's even longer.
So, but anyway, it's just to me, I'm inclined
to let the gentleman keep it.
Um, but it is concerning that it has gone
unaddressed for so long
and now we're stuck in a position trying to
tell him he's gotta make a, you know,
$50,000 investment in his driveway or you can keep it.
So, um, anyway, that's all I have.
We put grass too, but, so I'll yield the floor though.
Any other discussion or any motions or
I'll put a motion on the floor
Is Mr. Cliff
Make a motion to grant permission to retain a 24
foot six inch by 73 foot gravel stone area
for parking in the front yard.
I don't believe it's a detriment to the area
and I think it's feasible
because of the size and the shape of the lot
Support.
So we have a motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by Mr. Perry
to approve the request for the reason stated
Mr. Cliff?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? No.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reason State of the motion,
Mr. Lindsay?
No. I believe it's a detriment to the area.
It's economical and it's not necessary.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. For reason.
State of the motion? Chairman Stevi,
I vote no. I think it's
a detriment in financial. Five three.
Uh, it's five three. Five three.
Um, the, your petition was granted.
Thank you.
Takes us to item seven, applicant Luca Luca Boan.
Hopefully I got that name right. I apologize if I didn't.
Representative Lu Bodan, common description. 3 3 3 0.
Gerard Vari has requested permission
to retain 13 lineal feet of six foot high privacy fence
that extends eight feet, five inches
beyond the front building line.
Is the petitioner present?
I do You wanna move this to the back
of the agenda just in case, uh, it shows up or,
Uh, I'll make a motion to move item seven to the end
of the agenda and make it item 10.
Okay. Is there support for that? Support? Okay.
So we have a motion by Mr. Jersey. Support by Mr.
Er to move item seven to make it item 10. All in favor? Aye.
Aye. Anybody opposed? I'm opposed. No.
Okay. Uh, it ha uh, it has passed,
so it'll be at the back of the agenda. Next is item eight.
Item eight. Applicant Judo Incorporated,
representative Schafer Construction Incorporated.
Common description, 1 4 5 7 5 11 mile variance has requested
permission to one, install a 70.4 inch
by 210.8 inch,
103.06 square foot wall sign on South elevation.
Two, install a quote unquote y shaped wall sign
with half 247.69 square feet
of it on the south elevation.
And the other half 247.69 square feet
of it on the east elevation for a total
of 495.38 square feet.
Total wall signage requested 509.44 square feet
Is the petitioner present for this item.
And for anyone that's gonna be speaking,
we just need your name and address, please. Yep.
Good evening. Jason Lippa, Schafer Construction,
1 0 2 East Grand River, Brighton, Michigan.
With me, I have David Brink Meyer, um,
architect from fa um, studios.
Um, just wanted to thank you for your time tonight.
Thank you for your service. Uh,
there are two signs under ordinance that we're requesting
to have a variance for it.
The first one I'll touch on is the, uh, the large Y that
actually wraps the corner of the building.
The, the way that we're viewing it is really a architectural
element that's stood off from the building, built with, uh,
built with architectural materials.
Uh, metal panel, um, uses that for their,
their branding across, you know,
not only the US but but the world.
So we feel like it, it adds, you know,
aesthetically pleasing, you know, elements to the building.
Address it up a little bit from from its current state.
The second one, um,
is the other sign located a little bit higher
up in the building within the center.
It's a bit hard to, uh,
to see on a one way road coming down 11 mile, um,
with all the vegetation that you have as you're traversing,
um, westbound.
And then also feel like it's a appropriately sized
for the, for the building itself.
So certainly here to help answer any questions.
David can answer any technical questions as it relates
to the, the building materials or assigners itself.
But you know, again, thank you for your time.
Okay. Thank you. Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone to audience wishing to speak on this item?
Na, seeing any or close the public portion?
Turn it over to board for discussion.
I've got a question and maybe it's a question for Steve.
Can you approach for a second that's not, I know,
so I, I know this is all being considered wall signage,
but why wouldn't that design of the Y type thing, isn't
that more of a decorative item as opposed to a sign
Wall? That is definitely
branding. That is definitely signage.
Okay.
Okay. Reason I was saying,
'cause like the a hundred square foot sign normally based on
the building's location definitely makes sense.
I have no problem with it.
I just worry about you give approval for a giant y
like that and then the next building owner
or occupant has now a 500 square foot sign.
That's the concern. And that's, that's why to me,
that I was like, isn't that just like I,
I guess I was looking at it the same way as a gas station
with everything that's put onto the canopy.
We consider that decorative elements.
Even though you look at the decorative development,
you know, whether it's a Exxon BP or who it is based on the
Color sign, it's usually just coloring on the
canopies and everything else.
This y is definitely branding their namesake
and everything else, which would definitely fall
under the signage.
Okay. As advertising. That's
My own account. I
have a quick question for you too.
So, um, so once the say said business owner
le leaves the premises and,
and we grant the variance for the y is it
because the y is in the variance request
Signage, it would be the total square footage
Still the still the square footage still applies, right?
Yep. Okay.
Um, to the petitioner real quick, what, what kind
of composite is this made of? Is it, um,
For the y Yeah, It,
It's made out of metal panel similar
to what's already installed on the building itself.
Gotcha. Um,
If I could, and, and probably ask the city attorney,
I believe you may be able
to put a condition on the materials used for the signage.
Madam Attorney, I, I believe you can place
that condition, um, as well.
I, I, I mean, I think you could also put certain conditions
that it, it remained coloring
with no words, if that makes sense.
I, But, but it is a why. So
It's a letter.
It's a letter. It's a letter, but,
Um, I, I a letter. Just one
Letter. So if,
so, if we, if we made a motion to limit it to,
like you said, no wording, would that possibly
alleviate that square footage in the future
if it changes ownership?
'cause I don't know if an OA new owner would want, you know,
I wanna say they have a y business, a y in their building.
So I guess
With the condition, with the materials
and to, to limit that, it, it has no wording.
I, I think that would prevent someone from putting
a ginormous sign, advertising U-Haul
or something of that nature.
Right. I'll yield the floor. Mr. Chair? Yes,
Mr. Lindsey.
Uh, question for the petitioner.
Um, I'm not familiar with your company.
I don't know, do you guys have,
or maybe it's not even your company,
but does Udo have other locations anywhere else
or is this the only location that they, they operate out of?
Uh, this would be the only location in Michigan.
They're actually moving from Livonia to Warren. Okay.
But, but they are a worldwide company. Yes.
Is this a, do you know, is this a common branding designed
to have it on the corner of the building like this?
Yes, it is. It is. Okay. Yep.
I, I think I share some of the same concerns.
Um, as my fellow board members.
I really don't have an issue with you guys branding.
The y it's very unique to your company.
I think it's tastefully done.
Um, it's taking up a lot of square footage for sign.
And my concern is if you know you'd have left that building
and, and it's granted to somebody else,
my concerns are definitely gonna be
how much signage are we granting to the, the next company?
Um,
I don't, I don't believe you're granting it
to the address though.
You're granting it to the applicant.
So once, if you were to move out the building, then
The, the variance would stick with the property.
So we're not granting it to the company.
We're granting the variance to the, the property. Okay.
So if the Y goes down in the future, another tenants in
that building, we've approved a variance for
the square footage of signage that they're allowed to use
and they can do with that as they please.
Um, so that, that's the concern that,
that you're hearing from the board.
Okay. Um, I,
I don't know if I have have any additional comments.
Um, I think case we done, I have no issue, uh,
with the other Udo sign.
Um, I'm concerned that if we don't find a way to, to kind
of limit this, this property, um,
we might have an issue in the future. Are you the floor,
Mr. Chair? Yes,
Mr. Green.
So is this the, we've talked about this before.
So if they move outta the building
and it comes back up, can't we resend stuff that we do?
I mean, we always say it runs with the property forever.
I understand what that means,
but so can't, can't we say, okay, you know,
first of all, whoever buys the
building's not going the y on it.
So, and but the square footage goes, the
Square footage is still gonna
go with the land though. Can't we?
Can't we, as we move through,
we send, we've done it before.
How does that, I guess I'm asking how does
that function? City am asking
City. The only way
this board has rescinded in the past is if
the purchaser, let's say YouDo sells it,
and the new purchaser comes in
and seeks the variance for maybe some different signage, um,
in granting that new variance request.
You have previously revoked the previous sign
variances that have been granted.
But I mean, unless a new owner comes
before the board, you would've absolutely no opportunity
to revoke anything previous.
Thank you. And I mean, additionally, they,
they typically have to agree
Because once we grant the 509, somebody could come to us
with a signed package of 500
that wouldn't even need to come to us.
'cause there's 509 already granted with the property.
So if they wanted to do something bigger,
then maybe we could take it away at that point.
But if once you grant the 509, you got 509 on
that property for forever more.
That's, that's the dilemma. Am I right with that, Steve?
Um, Have I been listening all these years?
I, I, I was half listening because I found something else.
There is an error in this packet.
Um, the total square footage should be 609
because the y is almost 500 itself.
And then you got another 103.
So 609.44.
Yes. I believe that was a typo.
I don't believe it has to go back and be reposted,
but I would ask the city attorney on that.
But yes, if you grant it with, and,
and the conditions would stay with the property too.
So if you granite with conditions, they would run
with the property for eternity.
Um,
So, so question Steve,
and if I can interrupt, so conditions on it, could it be
that, for that why shaped portion of
that 495 square feet is only
of a solid color
with no lettering within that square footage?
Would that No wording because you have no wording.
I mean, there'd be no wording as part of that.
So therefore future
You see as a zoning inspector that reviews this,
I would look at the letter Y as a word,
especially in today's day and age when you got B, r, B and Y
and different things used.
I would look at that as a word
when we looked at it.
So I would probably suggest if you're moving towards
approval, you look at the, the solid color of it
and the materials might be the best way
to put a condition on it.
Mr. Chair, uh, strategic. Jeff, you have comments?
Ms. Pearson, then you, Mr. Green. Okay. Oh,
Apologies. No,
I, I mean I believe the solid color would in
and of itself not allow for words
unless I'm missing something.
What if we put solid color Y
only, you know,
Quote unquote.
Well, I believe the, um, institutional
and national sign things would say you
cannot control content.
And that has been upheld in the US Supreme Court.
But saying solid color, that's not content.
That's not content. So, okay,
Mr. Green, you had a comment?
We keep on falling for this trap. So 40 square feet is the
Mr. Green microphone please.
Our time hearing. Thank you.
So total signage shall not exceed 40 square feet.
So we, we do this on gas stations and convenience stores,
and now we're doing this in this business.
So we are, I don't want we use the word arbitrarily,
but now we're deciding that.
So it's gonna be more than what the,
what the ordinance says it can be.
So it it, it's gonna be a hundred square feet more
or 500 square feet more.
Now we're making these decisions.
We're, we're kind of just throwing decisions out.
We're saying. So, so if they came up here
and said, we're gonna put install a sign
that's a hundred square feet and our y is gonna be
a hundred square feet, that's only 200 square feet.
Would that be, would that be, you see what I'm saying?
Would that be good? We're we're going over what the,
what the ordinance says.
We can go over all the time.
So we are now saying that five hundred's too much
understanding the whole, you know,
that this goes with the property.
Mm-hmm. So
I don't know.
I I This is a tough one.
Mr. Chair. Yes. Mr. Court. Oh, Mr. Wats. Yes.
Do that again. So here we are again.
We're dealing with an ordinance that's just ridiculous.
It's so far out date, you know,
and we talked about this
for four years out while I was on
counsel and nothing ever got done.
And here we are two years later,
we still haven't done anything.
You know, I look at one where this building is located at
and in my mind, who cares?
And then the other thing, you look at it
and it's like, it's very tasteful.
It, it looks very nice when take a piece of property.
I, I think it might have been vacant
for a while, I'm not sure.
And we're getting a tenant moving in from out of town
that wants to put a normal sign on the front of the building
and then they just want to, I, I'll say paint,
but I know it's a metal sign, a y on the corner.
And to me it's like I understand what Mr.
Watchpoint says, it's branding. I get it.
But what would be the difference
if I painted at the top
of my building yellow and the bottom of the building?
Orange. It's the same thing, right?
And this, but this is done very tastefully.
You know, I looked at their website
because I was curious who you guys were
and you know, it looks like everything
that they've shown on the website has the same why on it.
Now, why they did it, I don't know.
But, um, I just think it's very tasteful.
I think that our ordinance is very out of date
and I'm happy
to get an industrial business moving from Livonia coming
here wanting to pay tax dollars.
There's not any residence right there.
It's all commercial or industrial.
And I, I just don't see the big problem with it.
You know, I mean, I I,
and I get what he says about the branding,
but when I drive down Van D**e
and I look at the pink buildings and the orange buildings
and nobody's doing anything about that.
And we're gonna worry about a beautiful red y on the side
of a bill on the corner of a building.
It just doesn't make any sense to me.
So, I mean, I would be a yes vote to approve. So,
Mr. Chair?
Yes, Mr. Lindsay,
You know, Mr. Wash, thanks for
those comments. 'cause I,
the more I think about this, IIII agree with you, who cares?
It, it's 600 feet.
I mean, even if a, another building comes in
and, you know, they have two big signs,
it's a big enough building to support that.
I mean, if, if they ever try
to go bigger, we'll see it again.
Uh, so I'm ready to vote on this if everybody else is.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Cliff left.
You're right. We fall into the trap every time
because we've got archaic, outdated ordinances
that don't address today's signage trends
and branding in the marketplace.
So instead of making the corrective action as it should be
to take the stress off of a body of people who have
to arbitrarily make decisions based on input
and discuss things for a half hour over something
that's easily solved with a,
with a mathematical formula based on square footage
of a presentation side of a building.
How long Mr. Watts did you say?
We were talking about sign ordinance.
You were there, what, four, four years?
Four years, six years now. Plus
Six. So
this is 15 times
the amount of signage is allowed by the ordinance.
15. Little over 15.
We hear some of these if they're in the hundreds over.
Mm-hmm. But if,
but if, I guess if we're willing to continue
to take 'em on one by one
and talk about 'em, I guess we'll just continue
to take 'em on one by one and talk about 'em.
I'll yield the floor.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Rutz,
I'm gonna ask one more question
and if nobody else has anything, I'd make a motion.
But since it says why,
if they were to move out in five years, hope you don't
and somebody moves in there and wants to change it to a w
because Watts bought it, it's still gonna be bigger.
You'd still have to get another variance, correct?
No, it well, if it was bigger, yes.
But if you got it to that same 495,
No. Okay. Alright.
Alright, thanks.
I personally, I don't have any problem with it.
I would, uh, I would make a motion to grant there variance
to install a 70.4 inch, 70 foot four inch sign by
210.8 inch.
Uh, 103.06 square feet. Wall sign on south elevation.
Install a y shaped wall sign with half
of it on the south elevation
and the other half of it on the east elevation for a total
of 495.38 square feet.
Total sign footage would be 6 0 9 0.44.
Discussion, did you want to add, uh, any condition,
like a solid color? I'd
Like I, I'd like to make an amendment to the motion to,
um, include an item two
that the material be solid red color and made of metal.
I would approve that of that.
Okay. So we have a motion, uh, Mr. Watts support by Mr.
Jersey with the amendment to approve the request as stated.
Mr. Watts, do we have Reason? Yes. As reason stated.
Oh, reason, reason. You got a reason
It's not a detriment to the area
and it's it's an asset to the area.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reason stated of motion,
Mr. Jersey votes Yes. For
a reason.
Stated of the motion Mr. Perry? Yes.
For the reason stated the motion
Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion. Mr. Cliff?
No, it's 15 times the size,
the signage allowed in the ordinance.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Chairman starve Yes.
For reason. Stated in the motion
to request has been improved.
Thank you.
Thanks for coming to Warren.
Takes this. This item nine, item nine. Applicant. Faye si.
Simon Fff Warren, LLC Representative Christopher Long
common description, 3 1 0 1 5 Hoover variance has requested
permission to one hard surface to within four feet
of the east property line along Hoover Road in the P zone
to construct building
to within five feet of the west property.
Line three, construct a 22 foot
by 8 98 foot gas pump campy
that extends into the P zone to net less than 26 feet,
six inches of the east property line along Hoover Road
and to net less than 28 feet.
Eight and three eighth inch.
Eight and three eighths inch
of the south property line along 13 mile.
This variance will replace,
will replace item one from variance grand
ten eight nineteen eighty
and four waive eight required parking spaces.
Petitioner present.
And, and if both of you could give a name
and address, I'd appreciate it.
Push. My name's Chris Long architect for the project.
My address is 1 2 4 Peabody Birmingham, Michigan 4 8 0 0 9.
I'm here with EZ Simon who is the applicant
and private owner of Simon Express at 13 Milan Ryan.
Um, we're here tonight. You might wanna give your address.
Sure.
Good evening. Uh, my name is Faye Simon.
Uh, address is,
my main office is 2 7 7 4 5 Orchard Lake Road,
Farmington Hills, Michigan.
Thanks for having me.
As you probably already know, we did receive conditional
site plan approval last month, uh, with conditions.
Of course, the approved plan contemplates demolition
of the existing 1600 square foot building.
I believe that's there. The, uh, four pumps
and the canopy along with it.
Uh, we're replacing all components with new, a new building,
new pump, new canopy, and certainly new landscaping.
Um, building is now being proposed
to be fronted on Hoover,
whereas now it is fronted on 13 Mile Road.
Um, we are eliminating one curve cut on 13 mile Road,
the far West Curve.
Cut. Uh, as was mentioned, we have four variances
to achieve, uh, two of which are in the P zone,
which is a 30 foot, 30 foot, uh, dimension from both Hoover
and, uh, 13 mile encroaching into the site.
Um, we are maintaining the, what is an existing landscape,
landscape strip on 13 mile.
We are asking for a four foot
landscape buffer on the Hoover side.
Um, the additional variance having to do with
the, the p zoning is the canopy,
which does encroach about two
and a half feet into that P zone on the Hoover side.
Uh, the rear setback, since the Frontage is determined
to be on Hoover, uh, the rear setback
would occur on the easterly property line, we're asking
for a five foot setback.
And then as far as parking goes, we have
provided 10 spaces on site.
The, the math indicates that we need 18.
I would like to point out that
The way the building is composed,
we have about a 1200 square foot mezzanine, which is just
for storage of, you know, storage
and whatever.
Um, that doesn't incur, you know, doesn't incur additional
personnel demand.
So I'm just mentioning that
because the ordinance does not actually address,
you know, ancillary spaces.
Um, the, I, one thing I would like to mention too,
and uh, EZ can speak to it probably better than I can, is
that the existing station on 13 Mile
and Ryan is unique in the sense that it is a head in,
uh, pumps.
And then you can pull right through
to park directly in front of the convenience store.
Um, and I think you might be able
to talk about how well that works.
The, the best way to do it is convenience
for the consumers coming in through the driveway,
directly go into the building, park their vehicle, go
inside, pick what they want, and get out a lot.
Much better convenience than
what current the station is right now.
Uh, the way the station was built maybe 30, 40 years ago,
it's not convenience where the consumer comes in
and park their vehicle in front of the building,
get the product and get out.
So it's much better traffic getting in, getting out.
Uh, customers could come in, they don't have
to worry about scratching their vehicle
or get damage hurt, come to the pump, get gas
and get out much easier than
the way it's laid out right now.
May I one more, add one more thing.
Uh, I currently have a station on 13
and Ryan, I build that site says Simon Express
and it's doing wonderful over there.
Customers really enjoy going in there.
So I get a lot of compliments how we build that site.
I'm doing the second one in Warren,
I guess I'll leave it at that and ask questions.
Okay, thank you. Thank you very much for representation.
Uh, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone in the
audience wishing to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone in the audience.
Uh, I turn over to the board for questions and discussion.
I, I've got a comment.
First of all, Mr. Simon, actually I love your station at 13
and Ryan, I've stopped by there many times.
It's a great business and I I appreciate that.
I think have you another one
of your businesses in the city would be wonderful.
Thank you. I only have, I have one concern about,
I wish the orientation of your building would've been
where the back of your building faced a residence as opposed
to the orientation you have now.
Because all I see is if you have traffic going
south, your building's gonna block the view of all the,
the retail businesses next to you over there
because your building will extend so far out.
You know, where now it's not that blocked
because it's a canopy
and you technically can see through a canopy and such,
but when it's gonna be a solid building, you won't be able
to see any of the retail businesses.
It'd be nice to actually keep all the businesses on
that street orientated the same way where the front of it,
you know, would be along where you'd be facing 13 mile
as a building as opposed to facing Hoover.
I dunno, that's, that's my one comment about it.
It's um, I don't know what my other board members, Mr.
Chair, Mr. Uh, Mr. Jersey first and then Mr. Watts,
Um, to, um, to the petitioner.
Mr. Simon. Thank you. Um, this looks like a great plan.
Um, um, the one concern I have is, um,
and you're familiar with the site.
You own it is the, the travel truth travel through
when you're coming to try to,
you have people shortcutting getting the seven 11 going all
across the sidewalk, um, all the time.
Um, is there anything in this plan that is going to help
ensure the safety of that, that that patch, you know,
where the curb ends, sidewalk ends?
I mean people cut through there all the time
and um, I can't believe a kid hasn't gotten clipped yet,
but is there anything in the site plan, um, to address that?
Um, some kind of curb
or some kind of bush, something there that's going
to deter a car from going through it?
So I don't know if that was brought up at planning,
sir, could you speak to that?
We both could. Yeah, it was, it,
yes it was brought up at planning.
Um, there was another suggestion that has not worked out
by the way, which, uh, again, if Iez can speak better to,
but regarding preventing cut through, shall we say traffic?
Yeah, I don't see that it as an issue.
We can certainly take care of that architecturally.
I mean, I mean just even like oversized curb
or something to deter traffic going through there.
I mean if you're gonna redo the, redo the plan, um,
you know, I don't see any kinda shrubs in there
or anything like that.
Steve, did I miss something?
There is a curb and,
and grass area there at this point in time or,
and the plan right now,
And I don't know if that's still
what's existing on the property.
'cause whatever's existing on the property, no,
This is, this is new and that's what's gonna be there.
It's gonna go all the way, all the way right to the
Right to the Sidewalk. Right
to the sidewalk. All right. How big is that curb?
18 inches I believe. Okay. That's enough to do damage.
So 18 inch concrete curb and gutter.
So, um, I forgot. Okay, perfect.
Thanks. I'm glad you're shutting down that one.
Um, that one driveway, I um, actually wrecked my car on
in the winter trying to pull in there.
I slid on some ice. But, um, I think this is a good plan,
you know, to, to speak to Chairman Trovic is, uh, concerns,
you know, if you have the building faced the other way,
all the lights, traffic
and all that kind of shining on the condos back there, even
with the wall, I think just the way
he's got it, that's just my opinion.
But then where do he put the trash, put
The back of the building. There's
nothing on the back of the building. It's true.
So it's a harder in
and out though too, just living in
that area coming out on the 13th.
It is the Hoover too.
Um, so, um, I think it's a great plan, um, that
that station is literally a, a sardine can
and it's, um, it's been, um,
I know it's been burglarized a a few times over the years
too with previous owners.
Um, and I think this will help ensure the safety
and security too of your property as well, um,
from theft and things of that nature.
So, um, this is a great, great, great plan
and um, thank you for investing in, in, in, in the city.
And um, I was on the board when we had had you come
with the one on 13 and Ryan too and great.
Which is a great, uh, a great plan too.
So I don't see any, um, any problems with this.
Um, and I'll yield the floor to my board members.
You, yes. Yeah. So I, I would concur.
I've been in your place at 13 Orion.
It's a beautiful building. Thank you.
Um, so I probably did something
that nobody else has done.
I listened to the planning commission
meeting when this was on the commission.
Mr. Watts, real quick, let me cut you off real quick.
'cause I forgot to read the impact statement from the
planning commission, which found no issues, um, were found
to impact the abutting local
or general public. So I apologize
Sir. Okay, no problem.
So I listened
to the planning commission meeting
and I have a problem.
Every business that's to the east
or to the west of that complained about turning
that building 'cause it's gonna block them.
And that's not right. That is not right at all.
You know, I know your building's gonna be beautiful
and everything like that, but I don't understand why it
can't face 13 mile rather than Hoover.
Um, um, 'cause I gotta consider in my mind
the impact on those businesses
because I don't want to,
I don't wanna have you build your beautiful, big,
beautiful building, let's call it that big,
beautiful building and then have three
businesses next door go out of business
because nobody sees them.
I, I have a problem with that.
I don't want to, I don't want to create one nice thing
and then get three bad things out of the thing.
So this is where I'm gonna have a problem.
And then I have, I have a question as well to Mr.
Pont, um, and then I'll go back to that.
Are they gonna be back here for signage?
Uh, very possible.
If it doesn't meet the current variances they have.
'cause what's there would stay with it.
So if it meets that, then no they
Wouldn't. Okay, thank
you. So I guess the question is,
'cause at this point I'm kind of opposed to this just
because of the way it's gonna impact the other businesses.
Is there a reason why we're turning the building?
The way we laid the building out is the proper,
I've been in the business since 1973.
My dad started one station in 1973.
I pumped gas when it was all full service.
And that's all I've done.
I built, this is my 35th location to build from grownups.
Okay? So I lay properties, I, I, I've got a lot
of friends because we have a jobbership called Atlas Oil.
Okay. Customers ask us how to lay a building out.
Matter of fact, some architects use my design.
It's the way to get in and get out.
Easy access for our customers.
And I know what the customers want.
It's convenience and plus issues of traffic, an accident,
maybe someone get hits in the car.
It's the way you lay of that building.
So the business next door, when we left that meeting, I went
outside, I've talked to the shopping center.
They got no problem with me putting that building.
As a matter of fact, he says, we're happy
to see a new building there.
May bring more business to us.
The one person came in that day, talked about the restaurant
that's, I talked to him.
He says, great, I'm happy
'cause you're gonna bring more business to me
with the traffic cars come in, they maybe,
uh, park their car up there.
Maybe they come in, may get something from me.
As a matter of fact, they were happy.
None of them complained.
Do we know how much, how far your building is gonna come
out past the front of their buildings?
Really? 15 feet?
Maybe not, not a whole lot.
So it's not gonna affect them. It's, I don't know why.
I see that could be a problem for you.
As a matter of fact, it's gonna enhance the area.
That building built over there would be 50 years ago
is the way they laid it out.
I, I understand that. And this is the third station we
were dealing with on that corner.
And there's one directly opposite that, in my opinion,
they're overbuilding the property.
That's correct. You know,
'cause across the street from us, he's just adding
a, a space behind it.
I'm taking everything down Right. Building a proper way.
Cars come in, parked right in front of the building,
get product and get out.
Very convenience, backing up, turning around.
There's certain feet between each pump.
It's laid out the proper way to lay a, a building.
So let's, and I'll put this to bed, okay? Of course.
Because I appreciate you giving me all this information.
We couldn't accomplish the same easy in
and out facing 13 miles we would, facing Hoover.
You can't lay the building up on that. It won't work.
You'll, you'll, you'll be disappointed
yourself when I build that building.
You'll be disappointed. You won't be happy
as a customer, I'm telling you.
Okay. It's not the right way. That's my business.
I know what it takes to get the customer's
Convenience. I I understand that.
I understand that. So, alright.
Thanks for explaining all that.
Of course. Appreciate it. Anytime.
I just wanted to add one comment
because see I remember a number
of years ago on the board here,
we had the gas station at 11 in Dender come to us
that wanted to build a new building.
And the way they had it orientated was facing, uh, Dender
and due, due to the concerns
of Parkview Animal Hospital next door.
It was like, because they were concerned,
nobody's gonna see them as they're head, you know,
right East, that the building owner actually did take a look
and changed the orientation of their building.
So now it looks the same
and faces, you know, uh, 11 mile as opposed
to facing Dender.
So, I mean, it's, it, it would change a layout,
but I'm sure you could easily fit the same amount
of gas pumps and building size
and everything if it was be orientated the same way
as the other businesses in 13.
So,
May I add one thing to that?
Yes, Mrs. The underground storage tanks,
the way you move the truck fuel delivery,
you've gotta worry about that.
You don't want that truck come in turning around.
A car could hit that.
So all the way we laid it out, it works out the proper way.
We look at the underground tanks,
we look at the traffic getting in, getting out.
This is the proper way to do it. So,
Any other questions or any motions?
Mr. Chair? I'd like to make a motion.
Um, I'd like to make a motion
to grant the petitioner permission to one hard surface
to within four feet of the East property line along Hoover
Road in the P zone two construct building
to within five feet of the West Property.
Line three, construct a 22 foot by 98 foot gas pump campy
that extends into the P zone to not less than 26 feet,
six inches of the east property line along Hoover Road
and to not less than 28 feet, eight
and three eights inch of the South property line
along 13 Mile Road.
This, this variance will replace item number one
from variance granted, ten eight nineteen eighty
and four wave eight required up Street Park.
Eight required parking spaces due to the fact that the size
and shape of the lot's not a detriment to the area.
And it'll be an, it'll be an added,
uh, good thing to the neighborhood.
I, I believe supported
It was I heard the motion from Mr.
Jersey and I heard two supports. Mr. Green. Mr. Okay. Mr.
Mr. Green support
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reason.
State of the motion. Mr. Green? Yes.
For reason. State of the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reason. State of the motion. Mr.
Cliff? Yes. For
The reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Suer Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Chairman Stevi, Uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna vote.
No, I still think I prefer to see a different orientation,
but, uh, your request has been approved.
Thank you. Thank you. You won't, you won't regret this.
You'll be happy. Thank you. Good luck.
Okay, so item 10, which is the form item seven.
I don't see anybody in the audience. So
Item 10, um, Seven.
Well, it's now item 10, but yeah, seven is the new 10.
Applicant. Luca, Luca, Boan, representative Luca Boan.
Common description. 3 3 3 0.
Gerard Vari requested permission to,
to retain 13 lineal feet of six feet.
High privacy fence that extends eight feet, five inches
beyond the front building line.
I make a motion to deny this due to the fact
of size and shape of the lot.
Petitioner's not present and it's against our
ordinance. Anyway.
Support. Support. Can we have a discussion on that?
Yes. Okay. Motion's been supported, so, okay,
so Motion would, so we had the motion support
by Mr. Green and Mr.
Watman has discussion on
It. So I
drove by there.
And personally I think it looks terrible.
Um, and for them to not show up is another thing.
Do, is there a reason why they might not have
shown up? Do you have any idea?
Um, I have not been contact them with them
for about a month now.
Um, I don't know if they didn't get the mail.
I know that since nine 11,
I know there's things I get three weeks late.
So, um, I, I would say that as
from an administration standpoint, I probably would like
to give them a second chance
to show rather than vote it down on the first reading.
Mr. Chair. So I, hang on. Oh, sorry Gary.
So looking at the reasoning that they gave
and then driving by there, I mean,
they said tree roots.
Well, that's a crazy reason.
I mean, if you're gonna put a fence in, you gotta put it in.
Right? If there's tree roots,
you're gonna have to grind 'em out.
I, it just doesn't make any sense to me why they did this.
I, I guess I wouldn't have any problem with, with, uh,
postponing and give 'em a second chance,
but I just, I'm in agreement with denial.
But I'd rather, I guess be fair.
So Mr. Chair, we,
Mr. Would cause
a legal issue too, for them not to be hurt
or if they had a legit reason to
Shouldn't be a legal issue.
So Mr. Green and then Mr. Lindsey. So
We've done this before and we've talked, we've done this
before and we've talked about this before.
It's just because the petition doesn't show
up, we can move on items.
Yeah. And, and I think we gotta get out of the habit
of not moving on items.
And the, as Sean just said, there's a motion on the floor,
so we should vote on it.
Okay. Put me in the lineup for comments.
I'm sorry. Put me in the lineup for comments.
So, Mr. Lindsay, you wanted to add a comment?
Well, I just want to mention that there,
there was a motion, um, supported on the floor.
So I think we should be voting on this.
I I think for denial
or approval, you still have the opportunity to discuss it.
If you were tabling, you wouldn't have the
opportunity to discuss.
Right. But that would be, if I'm understanding correctly,
before motion is, is presented and supported.
Is that correct? You can make a motion with discussion.
Um, okay. Typically the way this board does it as
to have the discussion first,
but typically the discussion comes after the motion.
Okay? Mm-hmm. I'm fine.
I just wanna make sure that we're following the protocol.
Yeah, I know. Normally our board has always,
we always discuss things and then a motion comes here.
Somebody made a motion before we had any discussion.
So it's, um, but Mr.
Cliff, you had a comment you want to add.
Mr. Walker. Was this,
was there permits pulled for this fence?
There was a permit pulled. Um, did
It fail? Its final.
Uh, basically fence permits are just pulled.
There is no inspections for em. We did get a complaint.
We went out and it wasn't pulled according
to the way the permit was, it was presented on the permit.
It was presented going straight across from the house.
And I know he said he ran into stuff.
I thought it was a gas line.
I didn't read everything he did when I talked to him. Um,
Well that's a little troublesome to me
that we're gonna charge a resident for a permit fee
to put a fence in.
And now I'm counting on the city to go
and make sure that they do the job right.
They had to come and inspect my garage when I built it.
They had to come and inspect my addition when they built it.
And that's included. I did come
and look at my fence when I built it.
I, I, so When did we quit doing that?
They have not looked at fences in a long time
unless there's a complaint or an issue with it.
It must have been special that day.
Or roofs. Roofs they drive by.
That's a little troubling to me that a, a resident, I,
as a resident depend on that permit process to protect me
as a neighbor or whatever.
I find that absolutely ludicrous
that you're gonna charge a resident for a permit
but not do any follow up
or inspection to make sure
that whatever was being erected is erected in a proper
and safe manner according to the ordinances.
I I just wanted to go on the record to state
that I yield the floor. Thank you.
Not seeing any other discussion we have with Motion
and support to deny this request on the floor.
Uh, can I take a vote on that? Yep.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reasons stated in motion. Mr. Green?
Yes. To deny for the reasons stated in
The motion Mr. Perry?
Yes. To deny for the reason stated in the motion
Mr. Assessor?
Yes. To deny for the Reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff? Yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in the motion
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. To deny
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. To deny for the reasons stated in
Motion Chairman Stevi The lone person phony?
No, because I think it'd be good
to actually give this individual a
chance to come speak to the board.
Uh, so the request has been denied.
She takes us to, um, new business
and I do have one item I wanted to just mention technically,
um, next meeting.
First meeting in September will be
when we should do voting for new officers.
So I'm hoping everybody will be able to attend that meeting.
And, uh, thank you.
Whether there's anybody you want to point
Of order? Yes
ma'am. I believe that.
I believe that we're supposed to do not Well
that means nomination should have taken
place this meeting then.
'cause you gotta give people an opportunity
to nominate all over whether they're gonna accept
and then parlay for their positions.
Good point. Are we good with nominating next meeting
and then voting the meeting after.
Okay. So it will,
it will still be within September, so Yes.
'cause then, so fair enough.
Uh, uh, the first meeting in September would
be for nominations.
September 10th. September 10th. And then
We'll nominate. Uh,
And then is there a second meeting in
September? September 24th?
We'll, s we'll elect the new,
New board. New.
Okay. Uh, new officers. Thank
You.
Yes. O oh yeah, I would like, I would like
to make a motion under new business.
Um, it seems like we, we have had this discussion to try
to move our, our meeting up a extra half hour.
So I'd like to put a motion on the floor
to move our meetings going forward to seven o'clock.
Start time.
I heard a discussion.
I heard support from multiple voices.
Discussion. Go ahead. Okay. Discussion.
Um, I was curious if the board was enter going
to entertain maybe putting a stipulation
or a limit on the amount of items we hear in an evening
because, uh, especially during the summer.
Seems like we've been getting heavily, heavily 16,
17 items on an agenda's a little ridiculous.
And, and, and, and,
and running on into later on at night just
doesn't seem feasible.
And I was just wanting to throw that out there to see if
anybody wanted to maybe entertain that notion.
No, I agree with that. I would defer
to the city attorney as far as that goes.
Um, could we, is that something that we could
Mary Let you know that typically we try to limit, uh,
no more than 10, that your items at number six, your items.
Um, but same token,
so we don't least in our office don't do anything
to prevent an item from making it to the agenda.
But we do try to balance them out.
Is there a deadline? Like when
it, when it has to be filed? Yes, because we
Have notifications two weeks in advance.
Okay. So if we got a, just say I got item today.
Um, it wouldn't make your next meeting.
It's already a month out.
So before they could potentially be heard.
If we start limiting the numbers, we might be pushing
three months out because
that hardship,
Uh, maybe if we updated some of our ordinances
and didn't have to hear as much stuff, maybe that would help
Too. There you go.
The floor. There you go.
So I have a motion on the floor to change the meeting
to seven to 7:00 PM
And the support, I heard multiple support voices.
So I support Mr. Watts are
Support effective, immediately
Effective next meeting.
Okay. Or would it have to wait for another posting?
What would this take? Wait
For the next posting. And
I also wanna review your bylaws.
September 25th
Fair or no?
September 24th. Fourth. 24th. Okay.
Okay. So we, we have the motion in support to, uh,
move the start time to 7:00 PM
Effective. Effective.
September 24th. 24th.
All in favor? A. Aye.
Anybody opposed? Opposed. One.
Opposed? Mr. Lindsay's Opposed. Okay. 7 0 1.
Mr. Lindsay.
I always have a fly an ointment in this board.
I tell you It's all right though. That's a problem for me.
It's a good, it's all. Sorry.
Nope. It's, it's a problem for you.
I'll have to deal with it. Uh,
Well how about we let him let him expound on that.
Do you? Yeah. Do you Expand on I have a full-time job.
I have a wife, I have a house to take care of. Noted.
Would we ever want to consider if since it's not good
for the entire existing board
or I don't want to reconsider that.
Well, I think what we should do is our, our wish,
our wishes are, are, have been heard.
I think we should defer
and wait to see what the
city attorney says at the next meeting.
Uh, relates to bylaws and stuff, you know, whether
or not it's something that we have,
there's a process we have to do first.
So that'll give us time to think about it
and hash out with each other. I know
That makes sense.
That makes sense. But it's like, I know since if, if moving,
moving a start time is not unanimous that everybody's able
to do it, I tend to, to not be in favor of doing
that. Yeah. That's why.
Yeah. So that's that's true.
That's why it's like if, uh, if it causes an issue,
I would, I mean,
I think it's only fair to take Mr.
Lindsay's situation into consideration. I tell you,
I, I make a mo I make a motion to rescind the mo
rescind my motion.
Reconsider reconsider.
Um, until we get to
some more information regarding the bylaws.
So let's readdress this at the September 10th meeting
Support.
So I'm just thinking, so the vote that we took then is
naturally counted
and resending until we get to September 10th,
correct? Correct. Okay.
With a vote. With a vote.
All in favor? All in favor? Aye.
Aye. Anybody opposed? Okay. Thank you.
So we'll discuss this on September 10th. Yep.
Okay. Um, Mr. Chair takes us to adjournment. No motion to
Adjourn. Wait,
Leave. Mr. Watts.
Mr. Chair, I have a question for Mr.
Watt and I think something else too.
Um, last night I came to the council meeting
and on the way to the council meeting,
and I know you live over in that area, between 13
and 14 mile houses facing on Hayes, you know, facing Hayes.
I counted seven homes with cars parked on the lawn
and I didn't count the ones that have
added gravel and concrete.
That's been like that for some time.
But I guess my question to you is, is that your department
for parking on the lawn?
Um, it could be both of us, but mostly zoning.
It's in the zoning ordinance. Okay.
It's also part
of International Property Maintenance code. So it could be both.
So I'm not going to officially file a complaint yet,
but I guess now what I noticed is last night it was like
that today I've been by, I went
by there and I found one car.
And tonight on the way to the meeting, we were right back
to the same situation.
Like one, one place had like six, seven cars on the lawn.
So I guess maybe unofficially,
and I know you live in the area, if you're going by
that way at night, if you might take a peek
At At night, right?
Yep. Yeah, yeah. Yep.
So I, 'cause it's, that's very concerning to me
'cause it seems to be rapidly growing problem in the city.
And if we don't get, if we don't nip
it, we're gonna have a problem.
So thanks a lot. Appreciate it.
Okay. Make a motion to adjourn. We have a motion by Mr.
Jersey. Support by Mr. Assessor for adjournment.
All in favor. Thank Mr. Assessor had a comment.
We okay? Did you have a comment Mr. Assessor?
Yeah, I just had a question for Mr.
Oh, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead.
Um, these planning impact statements, can we get 'em
to us much sooner than the day of?
Um, I can tell you that I got 'em the day of.
So they come from the planning department.
I have no control over that. I can request it earlier.
Yeah. 'cause it's like this one was 18 pages
and we got it today and it's like, yeah, I'd like to read
through it a little bit because
I can request it.
I'd be much appreciated. That was it. Okay. Thank you.
So, uh, we had the motion was that, do we have a support
for the motion for adjournment?
Yes. Yes. Okay. We'll do well I, great.
We're journey again. We're doing double journey again.
Oh, we're journey. Journey again. Double, double two. Okay.