Still.
Good evening. I'd like to call the order a regular meeting
of the zoning Board of appeals on Wednesday,
September 10th at 7:30 PM Please
rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. I
Pledge. Pledge allegiance.
Excuse the flag
Of the United States of America,
Mrs. Republic for which
it stands on Nation and God.
Individual justice.
Roll call please.
Mr. Vic. Present.
Mr. Green. Present.
Mr. Perry's? Absent. Mr. Lindsay Present. Mr. Cliff
Present. Mr. Watts
Present.
Mr. Assessor present. Secretary Jersey's present.
Chairman Siah. Present,
I'd like to make a motion to excuse
Mr. Perry. Support.
We have a motion by Mr. Cliff.
Support by Mr. Watts to excuse Mr. Perry. All in favor?
Aye. Mr. Perry has been excused.
This brings us to the adoption of the agenda tonight.
I don't believe there's any changes.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion
to adopt the agenda as written
Support. We
have a motion by Secretary Jersey. Support by Mr.
Assessor to adopt the agenda as written. All in favor. A.
The agenda has been adopted.
This brings us to the approval
of the regular meeting minutes of July 23rd.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion
to approve the regular meeting minutes of July 23rd, 2025,
and postpone the approval of the minutes
for August 13th
and August 27th, 2025 To the,
to our next meeting, which will be September 24th.
Support. I Reviewed the minutes I support.
We have a motion by Secretary Jersey. Support by Mr.
Crook to approve the July 23rd meeting minutes
and to postpone the approval of the August 13th meeting.
Minutes. All in favor?
A. Aye. We have approved the July 23rd minutes
and the August minutes have been postponed.
This brings us to item six.
Item six. Applicant rolls Singh Representative Roll Singh.
Common description. 3 8 2 8.
Kevin, various request of permission to one,
expand the covered porch to a size of 28 feet.
Two inches by six feet. 169 square feet. Two.
Build a 13 foot by 25 foot.
325 square foot floor room on the rear of the residence.
Three. Construct a 10 foot by 10 foot, 100 square foot.
Gazebo in the rear yard,
not placed against any other accessory structure.
Four. Construct a eight foot by 10 foot,
80 square foot shed in the rear yard.
Not placed against any other accessory structure.
Total accessory.
Total accessory structure, floor area,
including attached garage.
357 square feet, expanded covered front porch, floor room,
gazebo, and shed to be 1031 square feet
Is the petitioner present for item six.
Not seeing anyone. Can we make a motion to,
um, move to item?
Oh wait. He is here. Right here. Oh, great. Please approach.
Peter. Please come up to the microphone.
Could you please state your name and address?
Hello. Press
Mr. Hello. There
we go. Okay.
Hello, uh, the respected of the members of, um,
the joining board and my fellow citizen.
Uh, good afternoon. Uh, good evening, everyone. Okay.
My name is Raul Singh and I live on, uh, 3 8 2 8.
Kevin Circle, Warren, Michigan, 4 8 0 9 2.
Thank you. Please tell us about your request.
Okay. I requested, uh, to extend the front porch
and, uh, there is a, uh,
the room in the back, in my back here.
So I just wanna make it up for the Floyd room, you know,
because the family's getting bigger, so we need more rooms.
So that's why I wanna extend it, uh, uh, make,
make that a Floyd room.
And also in the back here,
I want set up a gaji pool over there.
So that's why I wanna do some concrete, which is like,
you know, uh, 20 feet by 20 feet, 20 feet long,
and 20 feet wide.
And also, I wanna set up, uh, the shed in the back
because, uh, uh, I need it, uh, for,
you know, to keep, uh, the lawnmower
and, uh, some, some other tools over there
because I cannot keep them in the garage.
It, you know, it holds my space over there.
And, uh, also, yeah, also the,
the back roof.
Un extend it because of the room, the Florida room.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I
close the public portion of the meeting.
I will turn it over to Secretary Jersey.
We do have one, uh, email
that we'll read into the record from the neighbor.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't, I don't know where,
if it's an actual neighbor, um,
she doesn't give her address.
Um, it's from a Cindy Serafin.
Um, it's in regards to item six, regarding three eight.
Two eight. Um, Kevin, it seems to me that since there are
so many additions to the backyard of this property,
and all structures exceed,
the square footage is listed in the ordinance
by three times the allowed amount, this should be denied.
There are ordinances for the city, for the city,
for a reason for con continuity of residential properties.
And I believe that this should be upheld. That's all.
Thank you. At this time,
I'll turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chairman, point of order.
Mr. Cliff To the city attorney.
Um, it's my understanding, anybody appearing
before this board to be heard for any matter has
to provide their name and their address for the record.
So with that being said, I question the validity of entering
that statement into the record this evening
because this individual did not
provide their address of residence.
What he's referring
to the email that would, that you read into the record.
Okay. Gotcha.
Who, with that being said, without the address, I mean,
there's no way to, to know that they're within the
allowable fee to object,
but, um, I mean,
typically notice is only sent out to those persons.
Great. Yeah.
Any further discussion on the, from the board?
Uh, to me it, it, it looks like it just came from a,
just a regular resident from the city.
Um, you know, these are public hearings are posted, so,
you know, the public at large, Ken, I,
I believe chime in, um, just, just as well as anybody.
Um, but, um, do find it a little concerning.
They'll give the address, but maybe it's just, um,
so I do see your point there,
but I think pretty much since this is a public forum,
you know, it's a public meeting that's posted
that anybody could kinda chime in on, on anything.
So that's just kind of my understanding.
But I do see the concern
about not having an address, though,
Mr. Chair,
Mr. Ros. I could just add on I do agree with Mr.
Cliff because anybody who speaks here has
to give a name and address.
And If they're sending something even electronically,
they should provide an address so we know that they are
a citizen, that adversity and such.
And that's my point of contention,
and that's why anybody speaking
before this body has to provide an name, then an address.
And I think that that should hold true.
And I believe it does in our bylaws, or our,
or our method of operation.
You have to identify yourself and present an address.
It doesn't have to be in the city of war,
and it can be in Timbuktu for all we care.
Right. But you have to know who you are
and where you come from,
because if the decision is made
based on information in hearing, it's being swayed,
maybe some legal repercussions later
down the road or an appeal.
Um, I'm just looking out for
Our, uh, our, our decorum as a board.
I'll yield the floor. Mr. Chair.
Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh, just as a a side note,
you are correct, pursuant to article vi seven of our,
our Rules of procedure, um, each member
of the audience may address the
board for up to three minutes.
Um, and each public speaker,
speaker shall provide their name and address to be heard,
Mr. Watts.
So I, I understand what she's saying
and that's saying if they're here in public,
however, any of this stuff is easily obtainable
by checking the BSNA.
And I'm not sure that the state law,
I think the state law says
you don't have to give an address.
'cause we dealt with that at the council level.
So, uh, I don't personally see the big deal, but
Thank you Mr. Cliff for
bringing that
to our attention about the the address.
Um, I'm gonna go ahead and
unless someone would wanna make a motion
to strike that from the record.
Well, here's the thing. This, the same, same citizen, um,
has another comment about another item
on the agenda as well. So,
Um, I, I think, I think
I, I think for, because our bylaws do
stipulate they gotta give an address.
Um, I think we should make a motion to, to strike this at
This point, but the bylaw says in person
It's true.
So kind of puts us like a, an awkward spot
Given the ambiguity of the, uh, ordinance.
I, I, I think I'll just leave it up
to the individual board members tonight to tonight
to decide whether you want to consider, uh, that comment,
you know, into your reasoning.
Um, beyond that, what other questions
or discussion do you have about the items presented tonight?
Mr. Chair? Petitioner. Yeah.
I'm sorry, Mr. Watts. Was that,
Yes. A couple
questions for the petitioner.
This seems like a lot of square footage you're adding,
adding to a single family dwelling.
And I know your house is right on the corner.
Yes. Um,
and it's kind of gonna overpower the, the property.
Um, and that doesn't fit
with the other structures of the neighborhood.
I, I mean, I, I guess I'm confused about
how much room you really need.
You know, I can understand a shed and maybe a gazebo,
but you're talking about the front porch,
the back porch, that's a lot of space.
I mean, a thousand square foot you're adding, uh,
to your property, and I assume you're home looking at it.
I didn't look it up online,
but I imagine you're probably about 13, 1400 square feet
and you're almost doubling the size.
And that's a real concern to me.
Excellent. Uh, I don't know.
I, I, I think of, I do have like a lot of space in the back,
but I, I talk to everyone,
like pretty much everyone in my neighborhood,
and they say, see, you know, they encourage me, you know,
they encourage me, like, if you do that,
the house will look good, the neighborhood will look good,
it'll bring the bills for the neighbors.
And, uh, and,
and also, um, uh, I mean this,
I know everybody has a different, uh,
perception and perspective.
I mean, this is my perspective. I, I don't think so.
If I, uh, put a bu
and s**t in the back, it's not gonna affect anyone,
But I understand what you're saying.
But you're adding a thousand square foot to probably a 14,
1500 square foot home.
And, um, you know, a variance
normally is like one thing, and, and you move on.
And my opinion, if you're ask somebody's asking
for 3, 4, 5 variances, then it really doesn't fit the area.
So, um, that, that's,
that's really all I have.
I, I'll be a no vote on it. So,
Mr. Mr. Watts,
I have a little bit of a different, uh, opinion.
I'm just kinda looking at these one, one by one.
The first item to expand the, the front covered porch, I,
I drove by the property.
The porch goes about two thirds
of the way across the front of the house.
I don't have a problem with expanding the concrete
for the porch to the end of the house.
Like there, there really aren't, um, other examples on
that street, but other streets in more
and close by have the front porch running the span
of the, the front of the house.
So I don't have a problem with that.
Um, having the roof go over that, um, porch extension,
I think it is important
because it gives, you know, um,
some continuity to the front of the house.
It's just, it makes it look more, you know,
appropriate and substantial.
Um, the Florida room on the residence,
I'll come back to that in a second.
That, that was where my hiccup was.
The gazebo in the backyard.
We often grant gazebos, it seems in line with other gazebos
that are popping up in the neighborhood.
And the shed the same thing as long as it's behind the, uh,
the behind the, the principal
or the, you know, the, the sight line from the road.
I don't have a problem with the shed.
The Florida room, I understand the concern about, um,
you know, adding so much square footage onto the home, uh,
with other things going on in, in the backyard.
Um, so that's where my hesitation is, is mainly
with the Florida room, not the other three items
that are being requested
Are, Are there other comments
or opinions from the board, Mr.
Chair? Mr. Lindsey? So,
I, I think I, I feel similar to, to your comments there.
I really have no issues With extending the front porch.
Now, if it wasn't there,
it'd be a little bit different, I think.
But it's just, it's kind of adding to what's already there.
Uh, I have no issues with the, the gazebo, obviously,
as long as that's on either a cement pad
or we're building a, a rat wall, like we need,
I'm fine with the, the structure.
Same thing with, with the shed.
Um, I don't see any type of shed back there right now.
Um, I don't know. I guess it'd be a question to petitioner.
I don't see a garage, uh, I haven't driven by your house.
Do you have, I guess the garage is attached to your house?
Yes. Okay. Yeah, I mean, the,
the shed is a reasonable size shed.
Um, so I don't have any issue with that.
And then I really don't, don't have an issue
with the Florida room.
I know when we are totaling the square footage
of what's being added, it adds up.
But I think all of it's tastefully done
and it's within reason.
It's just all at once.
Um, so I don't think a Florida room is
going to hurt the property.
I don't think it's gonna hurt the properties near it.
Um, so I would've liked to see a, a drawing of what,
what some of this looks like.
We don't have that. But, uh, assuming that it's,
it's gonna be professionally done, I mean,
I really have no issues here. Thank you,
Mr. Chair. Mr.
Stor, I have one question for petitioner.
'cause I know you're, you say that the roof, you know,
the roof is being extended both in the front and the back.
Are you reroofing the whole house
or is it gonna be just, I'm just wondering if the part
that's being extended, it's gonna be a different type
of roofing shingle, or how's that gonna look?
Uh, okay. The, the front porch, I have the porch already.
Okay. It's like halfway. Yeah, right.
I just wanna extend it a little bit to the, the corner
of the, of the wall.
So over there, I don't have the roof.
It just gonna extend it like the, uh, like three feet
or four feet, the roof.
So he is gonna cover the extended porch
and in the back, uh, the Floyd room,
I do have the room already.
Okay. I do have the room, I have the ceiling and everything.
Only thing I have to do is just build a wall on two wall,
uh, from two side and put the sliding door.
And so that will make the floyd a room.
I don't have to, the roof is already there.
The roof is already there, so he just open room.
So I just wanna close it and, and make it Floyd a room.
So in the winter time, my kids can go there and play.
So they cannot go outside
because it's, it get bitter early cold.
So if I make the, you know, that room, play the room,
so in the wintertime, at least they can go there and play.
And also the shade, you know, the like 10 by eight, I can,
I can buy it from the Home Depot.
I just wanna set up one in the bag so I don't have to
put the stuff, keep the stuff in my, the garage.
So the, it, it's holding my space.
I cannot park my car in the garage, like, you know,
the lawnmower blower, stuff like that.
And my kids can't even go in the garage
because they always smell smelling gasoline
and it's not, it's not healthy either.
So that's why I just wanna put, you know,
or those, uh, 10 by eight, uh, shed in the bag
so I can keep my, uh, accessories, uh,
over there in the, in the shed.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Green, one moment.
My que are you saying that you added onto the, to the roof
already as part of this project or the roof?
Just, just from the beginning of,
of when the H house was built?
Yes. Already like that. The roof is,
yeah, the roof is already there.
Okay. So, and the house, house was built. Okay.
The Florida room. Yeah.
The roof is already, it is already, it's open room. Okay.
The roof is there. I just want to,
it has like two side wall.
The roof overhangs the back over. Right.
And there's concrete on the ground. Yes, sir. Okay. So,
And I just wanna build two walls
so it'll make a Florida room.
Okay. The roof has already been there.
Okay. That changes my opinion.
I, I, I can get behind the Florida room if, if the,
the roof is already there, Mr. The roof
Is already there. So
It sounds like that this,
you wanna extend the back roof though, is that correct?
Not to extend the whole roof.
The part that's not there, Just, uh, one side is like,
it's like three feet in the front yard.
Correct. You, you wanna extend the roof,
like the one in the front yard.
In the front yard.
I don't think it's Okay. Let me ask you this question,
because this is, this is not making sense.
Do you have an awning out there right now?
Do I have what? An awning.
An aluminum awning in your backyard? Uh,
I'm sorry, I did not get it. Well, you
Have a floor, you said you're gonna put a Florida
room in, right?
A Florida room's not taking an awning
and putting walls on it with a sliding door.
I'm trying to, I'm trying to,
because one of the board members already indicated that
if it's quality work, it's gonna look good,
but it's, it sounds it's not making sense.
So on the back porch, you have an old porch
that's 14 feet, two inches long.
You want a roof and porch will be extended
by six feet, 14 inches.
So you're taking the hard roof
and extending it all the way across the back.
It slides only, It's
Right here. It is extended
only one side. Five.
I meant five feet. You're gonna extend the roof,
five feet roof and rule
Will be Mr. Green. Are
you talking about the rear of the,
of the property or the front?
I'm talking about the rear of the property.
I'm a no vote on this. It just doesn't seem like it's well
put together and it, it looks kind of piecemeal to me.
So, and plus it doesn't meet the criteria.
I want to just clarify, the, the roof on the back
of the house currently extends out past Yes.
The back of the house? Yes. How far does it extend out?
It's only one side. Okay.
One side is like four feet.
The roof extends four feet over your patio,
Right? Only one side.
It's, the roof is already there,
but I, I don't know.
I can, uh, I have the drawing if I can show it to you.
We had,
Do you have any pictures or Architectural drawings?
Yes, I do have a drawing if you allow me, so I can come up
If we have the, the hand sketch.
But do you have any type of rendering showing what the,
Uh, the picture?
I'd like to see a picture of your, of your backyard.
Let's see if I have any picture.
Oh, yes, I do have a picture. Can I bring it up?
You can give it to Ms. Jones. Okay.
So this is the royal there. I have the rope quality.
You see this side is cut off a little bit.
This side, little bit cut off.
I just wanna extend it this side. Okay.
So the room is already there. Broke is already there? Yes.
Yes, yes.
May I drove That? Thank you.
You see one side is cut off a little bit.
I just wanna extend the, that side a little bit.
Like four feet.
Okay. Got it. That, that makes sense.
So just the smudge, right? Okay. A roof
Is already there. Is
That picture or the front or the back?
That's the rear of the home. Right? Right. Okay. Okay.
That's the Florida room. That,
That makes sense,
Mr. Chair,
Mr. Lindsay. After,
after seeing that picture, I think it,
it just further validates, uh, my opinion that,
that this is not a bad addition.
I think we should allow it.
It honestly looks a little goofy right now.
And I think extending it
and uniforming it is gonna look a whole lot better.
So I'm, I'm gonna vote yes on this
Mr. Chair. I agree.
Thank you Mr. Watts.
I have more questions Here on the floor.
So the front porch, you're gonna extend it all the
way down to the end of the house?
Yeah. To the wall.
And you're not gonna have any overhang over the porch then
Over the concrete?
No, because it's the same thing at the front porch.
I have the porch like halfway. Yeah, I have the roof.
The rest of the halfway. I wanna extend it.
I wanna extend the roof too. So it gonna cover the
Oh, so you are gonna extend the roof?
Yeah, just a little bit because all,
Well, it's not a little bit, that's a, that's quite a,
that's quite a distance
across there to the end of the house.
Second question I have is on the back porch,
looking at your picture, there's some concrete there,
but off to the sides, there's a patio block.
Now underneath that concrete, is there a rat wall?
Is there a rat wall in there to support that room?
I think so, because there's a concrete all over
Mr. Chair to
Mr. WaPo.
And the concrete was already
there when I bought the house.
I know, but there's code for built
for a room that you have to follow.
Yes, sir. I'm assuming you guys
haven't been out there, correct?
No, we haven't. Okay.
So if he was to,
'cause looking at the picture, it's parked concrete,
parked patio blocks.
And where I'm concerned that he's gonna slap up a couple
of walls on a door wall on top of concrete
that doesn't have a rat wall.
And those patio blocks,
Well, it will require a permit
and you will have to go through all the code to get approved
after through the permit process.
Okay. That's, that's my concern. Thank you.
And that might be a real issue he faces,
but as long as it's being built to the ordinance,
I don't have a problem with it.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Cliff,
Sir, my question concerns your 10 by 10 gazebo
that you're gonna put into the backyard.
What's the floor of the gazebo?
What material are you using for the floor? For the gazebo?
Uh, the gazebo. I'm gonna do the concrete
and, uh, the side.
I'm gonna do footing.
Okay. And it's gonna be an open gazebo. No walls.
No walls. No walls. No walls.
I'm just gonna buy one from the Home Depot
and just set it up there.
Very good. I think that's, uh,
all I really, that's all I have. Thank you, sir.
No problem. Thank you. Any other
comments or discussion?
This item has gone a while.
It was confusing at first, but I think we understand.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like
to make a motion if nobody else has any discussion. Please
Do.
I'd like to grant permission
to explain the covered front porch to a size of 28 foot,
two inches by six foot.
That's 169 square feet. Two,
Build The 13 foot by 25 foot,
325 square foot Florida room
onto the rear of the residence.
Number three, construct a 10 foot by 10 foot,
100 square foot gazebo in the rear yard,
not placed against any other accessory structure.
And number four, construct a eight foot by 10 foot,
80 square foot shed in the rear yard not to be placed
against any other accessory structure.
I don't feel that any of it's a detriment to the area
as long as it's done under a permitted process.
Support. We have a motion by Mr.
Cliff, support by Secretary Jersey
to approve the request is read.
Mr. Cliff? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr.
Jersey votes Yes. For the reason stated a motion. Mr.
Sovich?
I'm voting, no, I think it's over building.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion. Mr. Green?
No. As an established practical
Difficulty, The property's not unique. It's
Not necessary.
Mr. Watts? No,
I think there's too many unanswered questions
and it's a detriment.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For The reason stated in the motion
And Chairman sfa?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion set.
Five, yeah, your item has been approved. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you.
This brings us to item seven.
Item seven. Applicant Aliyah Bear,
Barick representative Christopher Kovich.
Description, 2 3 6 0 1 Willard.
He requested permission to, to allow a
765.25 square feet of accessory structure floor area so
that a roof can be installed over 101.25 square foot
rear deck in addition
to an existing 484 square foot detached garage
and a 180 square foot three seasons row.
Good evening. Good evening.
Please start with your name and address.
Chris Kovich. Um, my home address.
I'm on behalf of the homeowner.
Do you want her address or mine? That's fine.
It doesn't matter. It's 2 3 6 0 1 Willard.
Thank you. Please tell us about the request.
Um, I am the builder on this project.
We were approved through the city.
All of our permits for an addition off the back
of the house with a deck.
Everything has been approved,
construction has begun already.
Um, the homeowner, Alia would like to
have the deck portion covered.
She, um, is worried about the rain
hitting the deck, coming through the deck slats.
And, um, that's really all I know about her
reasoning for wanting this.
Um, so the, the deck will be there.
She just wants the roof over it.
So while we're building the addition, we would be extending
the roof, hopefully if this gets approved at the same time
so we don't have to come and add it later.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
I'm looking at the, uh,
kinda the architectural rendering.
So I see there's an addition on the house that's
physically part of the house, heated and cooled space,
and then I see the deck on the back of the house.
And this item is just talking about the roof on the
back deck,
Correct? On the deck? Correct.
Okay.
So there's still gonna be a railing on the,
the three sides of the deck?
Correct. Okay.
She was approved for an awning.
Um, it's a year and a half, two years ago.
And for whatever reason, she wasn't able
to start the construction on time.
So it lapsed. Sure.
So you, you, you all have seen this covering already,
but now it's just slightly different
with the extension of the,
Uh, Addition.
Yes, and I, I think it's tastefully done.
I don't have a problem with it. Secretary Jersey, uh,
Real quick to, to the petitioner.
So it's just, just a, just a roof.
No walls, just just a roof over the deck basically. Correct.
No walls, nothing. Okay.
I yield the floor. Mr. Chair,
Mr. Watts, Uh, question to the petitioner
or, so I assume you're building the back room now?
Correct. Okay.
Um, very well,
thank you. Well,
Mr. Chair, I,
nobody else has anything else to say.
I'd like to make a motion on this item.
Please do. Um,
I'd like to make a motion to grant the
petitioner's permission to allow 765.25 square feet
of accessory structure floor area so
that a roof can be installed over a 101.25 square foot rear
deck in addition to an existing 484 square foot detached
garage in 180 square feet.
Three seasons room. Due to the fact of the size
and the shape of the lot, it's not a detriment.
Support. We have a motion
by Secretary Jersey, support by Mr.
Sitz to approve. The item is read. Mr.
Jersey votes? Yes. For reason. Stay in motion. Mr. Sitz?
Yes. For reasons stated in motion. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion, Mr. Clifft? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reasons.
State in the motion Mr. Watt Yes. For
The reasons stated the motion Mr. Lindsay
Yes. For
the reasons stated in the motion.
And Chairman Sefa? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you. Thank you. This brings us to item eight.
Item eight, applicant.
Cory Petros, representative Cory Petros.
Common description, 2 0 7 0 3 Dexter variances requested
permission to retain single family residential use in
the C two zoning district.
Good evening. Please be a little higher for me.
Good evening, guys. How are you?
Good. Please tell us about your request.
Uh, yep. Well, Cory Petros, uh,
address 2 0 7 0 3 Dexter Boulevard.
Warren, Michigan. Thank
You. Um,
Yep. I purchased
this house not too long ago,
and I recently found out trying to obtain a mortgage
that it's a, and this is all new to me, so bear with me.
It's zoned as is Z two commercial.
Um, it's been long existed as a residential house and,
but under current zoning regulations, if destroyed
by a fire, other acts of God,
it cannot be rebuilt as a residence.
And also some language, I think it's city related.
If there's 60% of damage, I can't rebuild it
as a single family house, which causes hardship, obviously.
Um, so I'm looking to get that approved. The use.
I please call these variance to be able to,
something happens to my house, God forbid
that I could rebuild it as a single family house.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close
the public portion of the meeting.
Uh, before I turn it over to the board, I, I apologize
for not catching this earlier.
This is a use variance unlike other, uh, non-use variances.
So the use variances you might know require six yes
votes instead of five. Okay.
We're absent. I didn't know that. But
Yeah, we're absent one member tonight.
So we usually give, uh, petitioners the opportunity
to reschedule for a, a full board.
Um, so if you'd like to do that, I'll, I'll allow that.
Otherwise, we can proceed tonight.
We can proceed. Okay. Thank you.
At this time I'll turn it over
to the board for discussion, Mr.
Chair.
Uh, so I drove by, drove by the residence
and God bless you for buying it.
Um, but it's, uh, it's a unique property for sure.
I mean, no driveway, right up against the alley.
It's, uh, it is unique.
But, um, as we kinda saw this
come before some similar couple weeks ago, uh,
with same magnitude,
and, uh, I, I really don't have a problem with this.
Um, it's kind of unfortunate that, um, you know,
it wasn't disclosed to you at selling and,
and things of that nature, but, um, you know,
buyer beware they say type of thing.
Yeah. So, um, you know, in order for him to have some kind
of, uh, relief from it, um,
I think temporarily this would be the, the way to go now.
Um, you know, but I, I, I don't have a problem with this
and I'll yield the floor, Mr. Chair.
Thank you Mr. Bots.
Um, I drove by there as well.
It is kind of an odd situation.
Um, I take it that you're buying this to fix up and rent it,
It, correct? Yes.
Okay. And
that didn't come out when you bought it, that it was,
It did not. Title
company didn't catch it? No one told me no.
It, I, I was getting a loan on it
and the lender says, you can't get this loan.
And I said, what do you mean you can't get this loan?
He says, it's zone commercial
ZC two, the lender.
You can't get a loan on this anywhere.
The other issue is if something happens to it,
I can't rebuild it as a single family house,
which it's been a single family house, what,
since 53 or something like that?
Yep. Um, so that's, yeah,
it literally just popped up a month or month and a half ago.
And I wanna try to protect you at the same time. Yeah.
And they're telling you if you get a variance
that'll cover it, correct?
Yeah. That's what the lender told us it, yeah.
Okay. And I got a question to Mr.
Watchpoint, because in my mind I'm wondering what happened?
How, how do we wind up with a home in a, uh,
being a C two there when there everything
around there is residential? Any idea?
Um, well this has been zoned
that way since the city's been a city.
Um, so it's been nonconforming ever since.
And prior to 2008
or 2012, basically they were given mortgages,
didn't matter on how the property was owned.
They didn't look at that that much. So any other transfers?
Sorry about that. Um, any other transfers player
that were never looked at that close as far
as the non-conforming this,
and that's why it's continued to this date,
and now he's getting mortgage on it.
The mortgage companies. I'm doing a lot of
zoning verification letters on a lot of these as well.
And that's why you've seen them the last couple times. Okay.
All right. Maybe seeing more too.
Okay. Alright. Thank you. I
appreciate the education. Yeah,
I didn't know it.
Apparently the whole row of str houses along that side,
I think his name is Brian at the city, mentioned like,
all these are the same issue.
So whenever do come up with a mortgage, you're gonna have
to come up with the same situation here,
The whole block.
I, I, I, I, yeah.
I believe it's the first three or four lots.
Wow. Okay. I've never ran into this before.
I didn't expect this to pop up
of any, you don't, to be honest
That that's okay. I
under I understand. So, yeah.
Um, like I said, I appreciate you buying a, a home
and, you know, fixing it up, you know, so I,
I'm all set. Thank you. Thank
You. Any other comments
or discussion
or would someone like to make a motion?
Mr. Chair, chair Mr. Cliff
To Mr. Walker upon and the petitioner?
So, so I'm hold, I'm holding a building permit
that was pulled on that property from July
of 1962 that designates it an R one C.
Um, as we've gone through
and everything else, we found a lot of these
that were houses or additions were put on.
It was an existing house.
They didn't have computer systems back then,
and they looked it up quickly,
and I believe they saw a house there
and they made it R one C
because some, most of the other area in there is R one C.
And I don't think it was looked at very closely.
And with the technology we have today,
that's the only excuse I have.
Ment c Single family
Reside. Okay.
So sir, was that, was
that the only remedy you were offered was to come
and get a variance saying it was okay
to continue your use that way?
Or they didn't offer changing your zoning or going, oops.
They said this was the only way to do it.
That's the lender told me. Yeah.
I, I, I'm all and none on this, honestly.
All right. Thank you. I yield
Mr. Chair, Mr. Lindsay,
If nobody else has
any comments, I'd like to make a motion.
Please do. Uh, I'd like to make a motion to grant the,
uh, variance requested to have permission
to retain a single family residential use in a C
two zoning district.
Uh, I don't believe it's the petitioner's fault.
Uh, it's not a detriment to the area support.
We have a motion by Mr. Lindsay, support
by Secretary Jersey to approve the item. Ms. Red,
Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reason, state the motion. Mr.
Jersey votes? Yes. For reason. State the motion. Mr.
Starch Yes.
Reason stated in The motion. Mr. Cser?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Clifft With reluctance? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Greene? Yes. For the reason stated in the
motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reason stated of
The motion. And Chairman Siah?
Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you guys. Thank you. Good luck.
This brings us to item nine.
Item nine, applicant Merced Vic
represented Hersham Turk in description 2 7 6 4 3.
SHAER brings his request of permission to construct two ate
religious symbolic towers in the front setback
that are five feet by five feet at the base,
35 feet in height into within 23 feet of the front property.
Line along Shaner.
Good evening. Good evening.
If you could please start with your name and address. Yes.
Uh, my name is SE Malki.
I reside at one three six five six Irvington Court.
Born in Michigan, four eight zero eight eight.
Thank you. And I'm the president of the, uh,
me profile, which is the religious institution.
Uh, Mead is a, uh, along with me on the application.
He is traveling currently, so I'm the only one
with the architect here.
My name is Ham Turf.
I'm with the architect who helping with this project.
I reside in, uh, 6 3 4 0 Peacock Drive at St.
Troy, Michigan, 4 8 0 8 5.
Thank you. Please tell us about your request.
So, uh, we submitted a request, which was, uh,
approved on Monday by the, uh, planning department with, uh,
certain, uh, items that they wanted us to take care of
and which we agreed to take care of.
Uh, on Monday evening here, uh,
the only reason we need the variance is
because the Minas that we're trying
to build will be a few feet out of the property line
where, uh, where it stands right now
as a, as an existing building.
Uh, we are building, uh, our base is five by five.
It's a circle base and two ros.
So it's not the along the entire perimeter of the front
of the building, just the five by five two structures.
Um, and it's really, uh, many, uh, members
and people who've lived in the Warren area did not even know
it was a mosque.
Uh, many times they said they passed by, they did not.
The sign doesn't always stand out due to the size.
Even one of the planning, uh,
members told us last time they had a hard time finding the,
so our building does not, uh,
aesthetically look like a religious center or a mosque.
And we're just trying to improve that look, not only for us,
but also for the neighbors
and for any of those who, you know, are looking for a mask.
I think it's also helps with the safety
because when people are driving
and looking to pull into the driveway of a Sheena road,
which is only two lanes, it only helps to know when
to slow down and know that you are approaching the entrance
and you need to be careful.
Uh, so that is what we're seeking tonight, uh,
with this variance.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Good evening. Good evening. I'm Barbara Wyatt.
I live in Warren. 13, 2 4 3. Yvonne Drive. Thank you.
Right around the corner from the moss.
My problem is, and I'm afraid
of is they don't really have enough parking
in the facility now.
They're only gonna get bigger, not smaller, we hope,
but they park in front of our drives,
block the fire, hydrants, everything.
And that's our problem. We have kids, it's autistic
and blind and deaf on our street
when they're pro and they have no control over it.
I understand, but when they get out of mass, they fly
around the, and I get video.
I mean, they literally fly around the circle.
They're in and out.
They don't have the parking amount now.
'cause after so many cars, they have
to block their driveway off.
Now he's saying there's only two lanes there on Shane,
but it is hard for us to try to get around.
Are, if you wanna go di down, Diane, which I learned
by going to get my husband's prescription coming back home.
They're people from their mass
was parked along Diane bumper to bumper.
I had a truck, a foot bed.
I could not really back it up to Shaner.
The guy literally got outta the car
and told me like that I, I couldn't understand Mr.
Sir, I don't understand you. You don't understand me.
So I called the Warren fleece for it.
They got him to back up only three cars in the driveway.
And then I got on my way home.
But my thing is, is the parking, they don't have
the parking spots now.
They're going to get bigger if they want to recognize them,
you know, so it's gonna get bigger.
It's not gonna get smaller.
So the parking is gonna be the problem.
They have the parking now they're parking in, uh, little.
We have, um, what is it,
little subdivision there, condos.
People are parking in their parking lots
and they've been towed.
Don't, but you can't stop 'em.
We've been nice enough not to have the police
to have them towed away,
but they gotta do something about their parking
before they can try to be, bring in more people.
That's my issue. I thank you.
Thank you. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone else in the audience
who wishes to speak on this item?
Good evening.
Good evening. My name is Mohammad Ahha.
I live in 1 3 7 6 3 Gray Avenue.
I move on this community almost four years.
I go on this mask. I never have any issue.
Always the he phone and they clean the mask.
Everything's great. Looking great over there.
I just wanna say that. Do they have any issue?
I did not see any issue over the last four years.
Thank you for those comments.
We'll take 'em into consideration. Thank
You. Are
there any other comments you can approach, please?
Good evening. Good evening.
My name is, I live in Warren more than 15 years.
What is your street address?
Uh, 2 8 6 4 5 Flanders. Thank you.
I'm about half mile from that community.
I'm a member of the community
and I have to tell you, uh, yes, we have problem, actually,
people who make a problem are not part of our community.
Those people who come on Friday masks, that's
for about one hour or whatever.
It's in every, every event.
We have problem with the traffic.
Usually if it is a basketball game or,
or any school, uh, event, we have problem with traffic.
I invite all those neighbors to come
and we can try to solve it either to hire police or,
or patrol or something.
We, I know that's the problem. We invite them.
We can have either monthly meeting or whatever.
It's, it's gonna be meeting.
We can come and talk for any issue, any problem they have.
We have to issue the problems. Cannot divide us.
We have to be strong as a community.
Those are small problems. I think we can, we can solve it.
It cannot not solve what they said.
We gonna, we are gonna grow up
because we are, we are looking, we, we will try to,
to buy some more parking space.
If there is any available property around, we will bike,
you know, to make that, uh, everybody, uh, uh, safe
and everybody happy, you know.
And also we have also to provide the people who can, usually
we have enough parking space for community members,
but we don't have enough for people who come just on Friday
to pray because they either work on, on, on Warren,
they leave maybe Hamtramck or Dearborn or, or other cities.
But they, they work there.
And then in the time of prayer,
they come just pray and leave.
And that's the problem, you know, uh,
we have enough parking place for community members,
but sometimes,
and we will see if we have time like Iona, they have two,
two time masks.
We don't grow, we don't really big to have two,
two masks, two, two times.
But if we, if we must have two times, we will do it.
You know, but I, I said if neighbors have problems, just
came to us and we will try to hire either patrol office or,
or from our own, somebody to regulate traffic around.
So I just thank the neighbors to, to tell us
what, what the problem.
Maybe we don't know. Even they can come to our mass
and see our iam, our, uh, who, who
held that, that mass.
They always remind people not to disturb order, don't
to park illegally, don't to park even.
We have problem in our community.
They park on the grass
and we are always have to remind, don't park on the grass,
don't block somebody else.
Don't, you know, in case emergency, somebody has to leave
or emergency to come.
The people do strange things.
You know that not all the people in every religion,
they don't follow rules.
They just come either at church, mosque
or synagogue, whatever.
It's, they dunno what the rules, you know, so
that they did not behave by the religion.
So that's why we need those institution
to teach the people how to behave, teach the people how
to communicate with neighbors and to live together.
Thank you. Thank you.
This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience who wishes
to speak please approach?
Yeah, Good evening.
Good evening. Your name and address please. Yes,
My name is Sade Ze.
My address is 1 5 1 5 8 Horne Drive in Sterling Heights.
Um, I am a member of this community, of this mosque.
Uh, so I'm here to support it.
I've been member for the last nine years.
I have been part of many work activities.
So, um, speaking on that note, we had many projects
where we came and,
and in being really nice neighbors, one
of the example is when we did our arbor wide planting
around our property, uh, one of the neighbors noticed
that we had nice, good potting soil
and there was older couple,
they had a hard time to even go to the store.
So I helped them out, got them, you know, a a few buckets
of nice padding soil, brought them, you know, to the garage
and they're like right next neighbors.
And, um, several years ago, one of the streets
that our neighbor lives on,
they had a construction total pull out
of the old road they're trying to replace.
They, uh, they replaced the whole concrete
and that took over a month.
And few of the neighbors that live right
behind our property, they actually used our parking
that we have spare, had a spare building to park overnight
because the rose was all pulled up.
So we, we are really trying
to be really good neighbors and help out.
And I understand, you know, their concern.
And their concern is honestly the Friday prayer, which is
our prayer is from one 30 till about 2 0 5 roughly.
And, uh, that's the only time when there's a little bit
of congestion and we're trying really hard with volunteers
to control it and do what we can and we're gonna continue
and we want to talk to them.
At the last meeting, we talked to 'em in the hallway on some
of the, uh, neighbors.
They're not here today. I guess they're maybe happy that we,
we are gonna be talking to them.
They have our, our phone numbers.
So, um, we, we are working on that note.
But on the main point, these nars, they mean so much
to us because a mosque without nars is honestly,
we can't really even call it a mosque
'cause they are very strong symbolic thing.
Like my kids, I have three kids when we go to my, you know,
birth country, when we go to visit the family
and we see mosque around there, every one of 'em has nar.
That's like the first symbol of the mosque.
A without, um, ard. It, it's just a building.
And honestly, when we do this work, you know,
we are gonna improve the whole front.
The pro the ports gonna be of course replaced,
a landscape is gonna be improved,
so appearance is gonna be really much nicer.
Um, it's gonna bring value, it's gonna be something nice
to look at when people walk by, you know, and or drive by.
So we really hope that you approve this for us.
And, uh, we are, like I said, willing to work
with our neighbors continually to improve
and do everything possible.
So everybody's happy. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Thank
You. This is a
public hearing. Is there anyone in the audience
who would like to speak on this item?
Good evening. Good evening everybody.
My name's Marmar LoJo. I live at 3 0 6 5 3 Cedars Drive.
And, uh, I'd like to share why this mosque means
so much to me and my family.
My mother, who is in her mid, mid sixties
and my aunt who's even older, came here Reg.
They come here regularly to pray
and feel connected to the community.
I also bring my three children here
so they can grow up learning, faith, kindness,
and the value of community.
What makes this mock truly must truly special is the people.
We see folks from all races, all walks
of life coming together.
We share meals, we hold potlucks,
and we spend time getting to know one another.
It's a place where friendships form
and neighbors become like family.
It's also an important home for people
who have converted to Islam.
For some of them, the mosque is their only way to socialize
and be part of a supportive community
because they often find themselves cut off from family
and friends due to their newfound faith.
To me, that's the beauty of this mosque as well as Islam.
It brings generations together.
It welcome, it welcomes newcomers
and I believe it strengthens the fabrics of our community.
And well, correct me if I'm wrong,
but the ettes are purely cosmetic.
Um, it's just going
to make the building stand out from the road,
I think will add beauty to our community.
And, uh, every time I've driven past a church, a mosque
or a synagogue, I've always appreciated the, uh,
the architecture and, um, and I love our neighbors.
I think we have great neighbors.
Last time we were here, we spoke outside.
A few of them even agreed to come join us for a barbecue.
So I think, I think it's gonna work out good.
And I respectfully ask
for your support in including mosque ette,
so it can continue to be a place of peace, lumity,
and belonging for everybody. Thank you.
Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience
who'd like to speak on this item?
Yeah,
Do you have a comment, sir?
Cool. Good evening.
Good evening. Um,
I just gave her some videos for you to look at.
It's like I 13 2 43. You want, sorry,
What is your name, sir?
Ron,
That efficient, Your first
and last name for the record, please
Do. I opt
is Blaze.
I'm sorry. Blaise. Thank you. Your comments.
Um, the street you got, there's two issues.
There's one in the capacity and there's one in the parking.
We'll start with the capacity
because basically I counted 240 people in the,
in Montgomery Ward's house.
Basically, I got parking for 35 according to the
individual that owns the property or so three five
or 240 right now in the Montgomery Ward house.
That's the first issue.
And once it gets those 35
and those pictures, you'll see moles, they chain it off
and they put Kongs out,
and then the people falling off, they stop in the middle
of Chainer and basically they're sitting
there trying to turn in.
That's a trap jam right there.
Second of all, they pushed 'em into the neighborhood.
Like I just said, after 35,
they push 'em into the neighborhood.
Well, you can't get up or down that street.
I mean, it, it's one way only.
You can either go in or you can go out. You can't go both.
So that's the biggest issue as far as more
or less the, the capacity
and everything. Thank you. Wanna see
'em? Thank you for those comments.
No, we're,
we're not gonna ex uh,
allow exhibits from an audience member, but thank you.
Anyway. Any other comments from the audience
tonight at this time?
I'm gonna close the public portion of the meeting.
I will let Secretary Jersey, uh, read one
or summarize one email into the record.
This is the same person from, uh, item six.
There's no address.
I'm gonna let Secretary Jersey read it into the record
and it's up to the individual board members tonight if you
want to consider this, uh, letter into your opinion tonight.
So again, it's from a Cindy Serafin.
Um, in regards to item nine,
she believes allowing this variance
to erect the mine its on this property would not,
would only not be conducive to the aesthetics
of the neighborhood, but again,
is also against the ordinance.
I have watched the planning commission meeting
that was held earlier this week
and there were several complaints about this property in
regard to parking problems, lack of respect
to personal property of city of Warren residence, backup
of traffic on Shaner Shaner Road,
which causes a safety issue of drivers.
I also have friends that live in that, that area they live,
they are highly concerned with the issues
that this facility is causing in the neighborhood.
The owner stated he closes off the parking lot went full in
case there is an emergency
and emergency vehicles needed to get in, quote unquote,
but has complete lack of regard for the neighbors
who live in the area with the same concerns.
With the addition of the mine, the increased identification
of this building, I believe this would only bring more
vehicles to an area that is already
overrun with the lack of parking.
The owner stated at planning commission meeting
that there are 35 parking spaces at the site,
but then stated they have upwards
of over 200 people in the building at one time.
Again, erecting 35 foot high ettes in an area
that is highly zoned
as residential would not be in the best interest
of the residents of the city and, and in the AR area
and would be, it would be acting more so
for transient people
that come into the city rather than residents
who have invested in their property.
They, there are two mass in the, in the area that I live in,
and there are also major traffic concerns that arise due to,
due to events that are held.
Again, there are ordinances for a reason
and all should abide by those ordinances.
I do hope Events, I do hope events that are held.
Again, there are no ordinances for a reason
in all should abide by those ordinances.
I do hope events, I do hope, uh,
I do hope that all commissioners will take into
consideration the concerns of many neighboring residents
regarding the property, although I'm not
able to be present at this meeting.
At a previous zoning meeting, commissioner stated there wa
there was no res, no correspondence from residents
regarding an item that clearly should
not have been granted a variance.
And so he felt that it was a non-issue and it was granted.
Therefore, I'm submitting my concerns
regarding these items on the agenda.
Cindy, sir.
Nick, thank you, Mr. Chair.
At this time I'll turn it over to the board for discussion.
Oh, yes.
If, uh, secretary Jersey could please summarize the
planning impact statement into the record.
Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Mr. Chair. Sorry about that.
Um, according to the planning commission, had to review
of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local or general public.
Thank you. Before I turn it over to Mr. Watts,
I just wanna remind the board tonight, we're not dis,
there's nothing on this item tonight about parking.
There's no parking variance on the property as far
as I can see the planning, uh, impact statement.
Uh, I didn't actually go into detail with it, if there is a,
a review of the parking, but I just wanna remind the board
tonight that we're discussing the, just the setback
and the two religious towers.
So we should keep our discussion, uh, on topic. Mr. Watts.
Well, Mr. Chair, I, I think
you're wrong on that because there's a problem over there.
I watched the planning meeting on Monday
night, and I'm glad I did.
There was about 25 residents from that neighborhood there
that are being overrun.
There was some statements made at
that meeting that were not true.
I did my investigation on it.
I don't know that those people were notified
that this was going on tonight.
There's the definite problem over there,
and they're creating a danger to the neighborhood
by not being able to get emergency vehicles into
that neighborhood with that parking on those streets.
They're parking on people's driveways
and those condos, they're parking on
people's driveways on the side streets.
They're walking through their yards
to go to the, to the place.
And, and then myself and Mr. Green took a ride over there.
There's two sheds on the property, which is a problem.
The the trash enclosure is not enclosed,
and the dumpster's sitting outside of it,
which is not up to code.
Honestly, I don't even know how we can hear this tonight
till their property's brought up to code.
That's my first problem.
Now the second problem is as many cars
that's coming over there, um,
they're probably overfilling the building at prayer time.
Um, I did, I did a check with the fire marshal
and it's limited to 192 people next.
Um, I looked at the backup documents that we got here,
and they were aware that they bought a medical building.
They bought a medical facility, an office building.
They didn't buy a church.
They didn't buy a mosque, bought a medical building.
And there's already been, according to what I read here,
five variances applied for since they bought it.
And now they want a sixth. You know what's gonna be next?
That many variants on a piece
of property tells you it doesn't fit.
Period. End of story.
Um, putting the two, I understand that their,
their religion and stuff, the min minette,
if I say it right, I'm sorry.
Um, that's part of your, your, your culture, your religion.
I understand that. But 35 foot for those two of those
does not fit.
The neighborhood does not fit.
Um, and it's not our fault.
It's not the resident's fault in that area
that you bought a medical facility
and trying to turn it into a mosque.
You should have bought something that would, you, you,
if you're expanding, maybe you need to look
for another building in the area that would accommodate it
with the parking, because you can't put three
or 400 people in the building.
It's not happening. It's just, there's just so,
so much here is wrong.
That doesn't comply with our ordinances.
That there is no way I can vote for this.
This is a danger to people attending your mosque.
If there's that many people in the building,
there's a danger to the residents.
There's a danger to the people in the condos.
Now, we're, we're hearing tonight,
there's also a traffic problem
and all of those, there's probably 20 residents,
25 residents Monday night that were at the planning meeting
that all voiced an opinion
planning commission did not take one
thing into consideration.
It was said that they were in violation on the shed was
shed, they were in vi they were on violation
of the dumpster enclosure.
The traffic problem. They took in no
consideration to that at all.
This is not right. May I, may I, uh,
no, I'm talking right now, sir.
It's my time when you're, um, wait until you're done.
And like I say, I, I read,
I read your statement here about you
bought a medical facility.
That's exactly what you bought.
You don't get to keep changing.
It can change it
because you're encroaching on the neighborhood.
And that's not right to those people. That's a danger.
You know, the one young one lady had, had
to have the police out there.
They shouldn't be put through with that.
They shouldn't be putting up with that.
I wouldn't put up with it in my neighborhood,
and I don't care what religion it is.
I wouldn't put up with it. I wouldn't care.
I wouldn't put up with it whether it was a restaurant.
So, um, I,
I think everybody needs to know what's going on over there.
I'm glad I watched the planning meeting.
It really enlightened me that there's
what, there's a problem over there.
And like I say, went over there and I looked at it along
with the rest of the stuff on the agenda.
And there's definitely a problem. So thank you
Mr. Watts. I,
I don't disagree
that there's definitely a parking problem.
There's definitely a traffic issue.
But what I disagree with you on is that there's something
that zoning can do about that.
They're here tonight about this petition
for these certain religious towers.
And the the points you raise are legitimate,
but it goes back to an enforcement.
I mean, if they have 30 parking spots or 35 or
however many they have, they can only park in those spots.
And it's simple. I mean, the, it, it's lack of enforcement.
Why isn't a, a police officer going out there
to ticket illegal vehicles?
To tow illegal vehicles? That's ridiculous.
I don't disagree that with the,
the religious towers necessarily.
That's fine. If you wanna have those, I think
that's your right to do so.
But you have to know upfront
that your facility sounds like it's too small
to accommodate the growing community.
How are you gonna rectify that?
So I I, I understand what Mr.
Wa is saying and the, the, the concern some
of the neighbors are having with the parking and,
and traffic, that has to be very frustrating for them.
But I I, I'm gonna give you an opportunity to respond.
How are you gonna address the shortage
of parking and the traffic?
I know you mentioned we're gonna,
you might have a volunteer out in the street
or a, a police officer patrolling at your mass time,
but do you have room for
More parking, Mr. Chair, make
A point Order.
I mean, this is the board's time
to discuss this is the board's time to discuss?
I don't, I really don't think it's, it's,
I, I do Mr. Green. I, I I I want
To, you're getting banter back and forth
because I have a comment to make on, on the fact
that this does, these other issues do apply to
this particular variance.
The fact of the matter is, the petitioner himself said
that part of the reason they wanna put these, uh,
structures up is
to attract more, I don't know what the right word is.
Business. And
That's not what I said.
I'm gonna give, This is a publicly recorded, sir,
Sir, sir, this is our time. This
Is my, it's publicly recorded time.
This Now, Mr. Green, I'm gonna give him a,
a moment respond.
Why think he had the I have a no,
because I, I'm, this is wrong.
I'm the chairman. We, I, and you're
Supposed to speak last, by The way.
I'm raising a point to the petitioner.
I wanna know what, and you're gonna tell me briefly, please.
But if it's not a part of the variance,
why are you to asking that?
Then? You're the one that said,
it's not a part of the variance,
Mr. Green. So
Now you're asking something that's,
that you're already said is outside the scope what
We're doing. It, it is,
it was, I think the parking is totally
outside the scope of this item tonight.
But Mr. Watts raised the parking issue up.
And if since he raised it up, I, it's,
I think it's a legitimate issue.
So do you not wanna hear
how they're gonna have more parking?
No, because it's not a part of what you just stated,
that this, the parking
and all these other issues
that were brought up are not a part of this variance.
That's not what they're asking for.
They're asking for two structures. So we're gonna go obey.
I think they, I think that is a part of it. But
You think what's part of it?
I I This whole picture, the whole picture, the parking,
all these different items, when the petitioner says
that part of the reason they wanted to identify is
so they can have more people, more people, is the prob.
But you've already stated previously that you don't think
that's a part of the whole thing.
So why are we having the discussion then?
If you're the chairperson and you just got done saying that,
that this is not a part of the variance.
Well, and now we're gonna have banter back
and forth with people and already had their opportunity.
There's no banter, Mr. Green.
We allow questions to be answered by the petitioner.
You're correct. When the petitioner speaks
and they're done talking, they're not allowed to speak again
unless a board member asks them a question.
I have a question for him, and I'm gonna answer.
He's gonna answer. You're
Supposed to speak last, by the way. But
Thank you. I'll
give you just a moment to respond about the parking.
Thank you for that. Um,
it's sad that I'm sitting here listening to
false statements from the Monday night,
which was two nights ago, about the
amount of people that were here.
And this is public record. Public record.
So thank you for putting those
numbers out there that are not true.
Secondly, we address every single issue planning department
told us about, including this shift chair.
Are we gonna answer Your question?
Including I the parking?
I, I'm, I'm gonna answer the question, sir. There's
Just a Question. I know, I understand.
I'm just, I understand para,
I just paraphrasing. He made,
Please, He made false statements
that I'm not sure from the last night, from two nights ago,
I, we agreed to everything.
And we have in the last 10 years have been, sir,
we have done everything you guys asked us of.
So that's gonna be taken care of Sarah. Like it always.
Now, regarding the parking, please. Okay, last.
Why isn't there 25 people here tonight? Sir? You know why?
Because I spent an hour talking to my neighbors.
They shed tears with me in the hallway,
and they agreed to come and join us and,
and talk about these things.
Our issue is not daily parking space
or any other time, except on a Friday,
which is an issue in any mosque.
Go to any bigger institution, go to mosque
that have more than two mints right now,
and go at any other time.
You will not have any more people praying than, than
who are at home who have nothing else to do.
We, I've never stated anywhere.
I don't know where this information came from,
that we are seeking more members.
What I've stated is, Mr. Chair, what I've stated is I'm
Not gonna be called a liar during
A meeting. I did not call you a
liar. I said, it's a wrong state, sir.
Mr. Chair. Excuse me.
All I, I've never stated that we are looking
for, for more members.
That's not true. Our members and the mosque
and that we bought the medical center that the, uh, Mr.
I can't say bots is referring to. We bought it.
We understood what we're buying.
We are, our community has enough space there.
What you can't control is it's a public institution.
People have the right to come on the Friday after.
If they work in the nearby in a Warren City, you want
to kick 'em outta Warren City to go work somewhere else.
Just because they come into our mosque.
I can't control and tell people.
It's not like a church where people only go
to a particular church
and maybe nowhere else in, in a mosque situation.
People usually go worthy.
They work nearby so they can go back
to work in timely manner.
Okay. What we have done,
to answer your specific question, I apologize.
That's, that's, is that we have had volunteers out.
We've never allowed our, uh, two parking spaces,
which we bought the parking.
Uh, one of the variances that you're talking about is, was
for the parking that we bought next
Door. My question is,
my question was, do you have more
land on your property that could be turned into parking?
Not currently. No. No. Okay. That was
My question. But
have nothing to do with, with the amount
of parking we have or the amount of people
that have gone visit the mosque.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair, Mr. Lindsay, I
Have comments. I would,
I would like the time that the board was given
to discuss the variance.
I don't have any comment regarding parking.
So I would like, I would like a chance to speak and,
and talk to the board about what we have going on here.
Mr. Wash, thank you for your comments.
Um, I, I agree with sending your sentiments, right?
So in, in the, the packet that, that the applicant has
provided us here, um, he stated
that they bought this building as a medical center,
and now they're using it as a religious center.
And it, it's not suited for what they're doing.
And now they're trying to add onto the building
to better accommodate.
So to me, that doesn't justify the need for a variance.
It's self and pokes. Um, we have other issues here.
He states under the property being unique,
and he says part of the reason is
to keep prestigious members who will positively contribute
to the city and the neighborhood.
So that sounds like to me that it's
for an economical reason.
So this doesn't seem necessary.
So in order for us to grant this variance, the applicant has
to demonstrate that he has established all of this criteria
to have a practical difficulty.
He doesn't. So I'm gonna be voting now. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Green. So,
with the issue in front
of us is the struck these structures,
and in my opinion, they don't meet any of the criteria.
They, they're not, uh, they don't, they're not,
they don't create unreasonable burden.
They're not self-imposed. The property's not unique.
It's a detriment. It's not necessary.
They, they don't meet one of the criteria.
So my vote will be it, though that we can simplify it.
Any other comments or discussion from the
Board? Mr. Chairman,
Mr.
Re, Mr. Roy? You know, it's like,
and I also, I'm not gonna bring up anything with on parking,
but, you know, the issue that we run into.
'cause I remember being on the board when some
of these previous variances are granted.
And, you know, and the problem we sometimes run into is
a building somebody buys,
his things are getting overbuilt.
Because, you know, if this property was larger
and you had the 30 feet in the front,
it would not even come here.
You'd build the ettes and there'd be no issue whatsoever.
They're running into farm.
'cause of course, they don't have the 30 feet
that's required by zoning.
And you're talking about like, it's 23.
So it's like, you know, it's what we run into when there's
a building that somebody's trying to use, knowing that now
you wanna be able to give 'em the use of that they want.
But then it's like,
it's requiring too much variances from zoning.
That's where I tend to question question.
It's like, is that property too small for the use
that the petitioner's trying to do?
That's just my only comment.
Thank you. Mr. Click. Thank you.
So, getting down to the nuts
and bolts of this, are we actually talking about Mr.
Wat Rapon? Mr.
Wat rappon, you can help me with this, please, sir.
Hey, the dog.
Yes, sir. First I'm gonna preface my pre
preface my comment
because, you know, I like to talk about ordinances
and anti antique ordinances
and ordinances that are out of date.
Our city ordinances don't address a lot of the issues
that come up when it comes to our neighbors
and community members of the Muslim faith.
They don't understand, they don't address
how their mosques operate.
They, they have, in my opinion, they're absolutely clueless
of the whole religion and how they work.
Back in 2014, a a group of people came
before this board, whoever was seated there at the time,
and managed to get a variance to open a mosque in
a planned business district area.
Where are houses of religion usually relegated
to in the city of Warren?
Anybody? It's an open question.
Neighbor. R one districts, residential districts.
We've had a few come before us since I've been on the board
talking about, I know we don't wanna talk about parking
issues, but they were looking
for some reduction in the requirements of parking issues.
And we had to wrestle around figuring out average attendance
of people that would be attending the mosque,
because they don't use pews for seating.
There's very, very few chairs at all in a mosque.
So between me
and a couple board members in the MM, we,
we figured out about how many people there were,
and I was able to convince this board that, yeah, you know,
what they're asking for is not unreasonable.
Some of your bigger institutions
of other faiths draw big crowds
and there's parking problems.
They're a little less often.
These folks gather heavy on Friday afternoons.
I have to travel through Hamtramck on Friday afternoon
between one and three o'clock.
It's just, I'm not mad about it.
It's just that's how, that's how their faith proceeds
to move along, and that is their busy time.
Now, I'm not condoning the activity,
and I'm not saying that I agree with maybe some disruption
that goes on in the neighborhood,
but at the end of the day, that's not
what we're here to talk about.
There's other avenues and other vehicles
and other ways to deal with neighborhood problems
to be addressed in our neighborhoods.
And if the city is not listening to the residence
and taking those charges up
and dealing with them at, at face value,
then shame on the city.
Mr. Pont, Are we actually talking about two feet here?
Talking about seven feet from the ordinance?
Uh, from the 30 foot setback,
Seven feet?
Yep. In the ordinance as it stands,
there's no restriction on height.
Um, there's an exception to the height and Article 19.
Um, I don't have that handy on me,
but basically it includes, um,
steeples any religious activity going over that fair.
So there is a, I
Knew I read it somewhere, I wasn't
clear where I read it at.
It's in Article 19. It's a lot to take
A specific number. So
at the end of the day, we're sitting here talking
about two structures.
One of them be one of them,
or both of them being within seven feet of the 30 foot line.
I believe both of them within seven
feet of the 30 foot line.
With that, I'll yield the Floor.
Any other comments? Mr. Wats? Did you have something? Yep.
I'm gonna ask Mr. Watts. T wise at the, at the,
and then maybe the city attorney.
So we have a trash enclosure
that's not up to code.
That was brought up the other night and I looked at that
and I witnessed that yesterday.
And there's two sheds on the property,
and I'm not sure that, I know,
I don't think two sheds are allowed,
but I don't know that they're up to code either.
And that was brought up the other night.
A question to you is, how do we deal with that?
I mean, if, if the property isn't up to code,
should we be here for a variance right now?
Um, well, most properties aren't up to code when they come
before you, especially if it's something existing.
Uh, that's part of the reason they do come before you.
So there is no restriction on that from what I'm aware of,
uh, as a member of the board previously
or member of, uh, the city.
Now, um, As far as the
other items, they should be on the site plan.
It's a site plan requirement
for all structures to be on there.
Uh, I did not review this site plan
or the site to verify that everything was there.
Um, we do that occasionally,
but it's usually in the winter months that we have the time
to be able to go out and look at some
of those things a little bit easier.
Um, so usually it'd be a complaint.
We would send someone out there specifically to go through
what the property has and what they should have
and what they don't have and what permits there are on file.
Alright, appreciate that.
So, my next question would be to the city attorney.
If, if there're the items that are out of code
that were cited the other night and we went out there
and we seen 'em, but they're not part of the variance,
should we be moving forward with this until
things are brought up to code?
Um, if you look at the site plan, I know they,
they noted the petitioner specifically asked someone
to go out and review the property so
that they could release the bond.
Um, those two items were noted.
The one shed, it indicates in here
is gonna have to be removed.
Um, and that the trash enclosure needs to be enclosed.
Those were noted on planning commission's notes.
Um, the only ordinance that I am aware of
that would prohibit someone from petitioning this board is
if they're in default financially.
Okay. I'm aware of that. Thank
You. Okay. Um,
and then the last thing I'd like to point out
is based on what went on at planning on, um,
Monday evening, and then to have
the impact statement that says there was no issues found
is a false statement from the planning
commission, that's a huge problem.
Any other comments from the board
or does someone move to make a motion
Chair? Mr. Lindsay,
if there's no other comments from the board,
uh, I'd be prepared to make a motion.
Lemme make sure I got my right page here.
So I would like to make a motion to deny permission to
construct two mine rats.
Uh, religious towers in the front setback that are five feet
by five feet at the base, 35 feet in height,
and two within 23 feet
of the front property line along shards reasons being,
I don't think it would be unreasonable to, uh,
stay within the compliance area of the setback.
Uh, this is clearly self-imposed.
I don't believe the property is unique.
Uh, it's, it is a detriment to the area
and it seems to be personal and economic
and it's not necessary.
Support. Support. We have a motion by Mr.
Lindsay's, support by Mr. Watts to app to deny the request.
Is read a yes vote Is to deny
Mr. Lindsay yes.
To deny Mr. Watts Yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in motion
Mr. Gray Yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff? No.
On the face of that, I don't see a problem with it.
Mr. Assessor? Yes.
To deny for the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Stevi, I'm gonna
vote yes to deny for your recent stated in motion.
Mr. Jersey votes Yes.
To deny for the reason stated motion chair Siah?
No, I believe the setback was reasonable,
but unfortunately the item has been denied.
This brings us to item 10.
Item 10, applicant Radiant sign Company representative
Paul Winestock.
Common description, 4 2 3 9 12 mile Radiance has requested
permission to install a 124 square foot wall sign.
Good evening. Good evening.
Your name and address please? Paul
Winestock.
14,500 Talbot Street, Oak Park.
Thank you. Please tell us about your request.
Um, I'm here, um,
to request a sign variance for whole fruit.
Um, they're opening a new fruit market
where the former CVS was on 12 Mile.
Um, Warren only gives a 40 square foot sign allotment
and the nature of their logo, the way
that their center logo comes up, um,
it really doesn't, we're not really using the whole 125
square 124 suite.
We're asking for. It's really more like about 75 square feet
because of all the dead space, the way that the, um,
square footage is calculated.
Um, he's spending a lot of money on this store,
building a new store, building a pizzeria taco shop.
And, um, the nature
of the way the building is angled on 12 mile,
you can hardly see it from, uh, one direction
setback from the road.
So we're just trying to see if we can get a larger sign
for more visibility for him
to have a nice neighborhood to look.
Thank you for those comments. Is this a public hearing?
Is there anyone in the audience who wishes
to speak on this item?
Not seeing anyone. I close the public course of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair. Mr. Steroids?
I guess I, I have a question.
Maybe Steve, you can help me out with this.
Um, I, the CVS there,
I know they had a 96 square foot wall
sign on the south elevation that was approved
and then they had their,
I I guess I was trying to think between the two
with the variances of what CVS had for a sign on the,
on both facades.
What did that add up to? That the sign, the each
Elevation would stand on its own.
So it'd only be the front elevation
that we'd taken into consideration in that.
Okay. And and the existing CVS sign?
I was, I mean the previous, I was trying, I was trying
to see what was granted for them.
That's why I could not find, I saw the south elevation.
I did not see the west elevation.
Is there a west elevation on
This? Well, I meant the one
that's the faces the front,
because CVS had a sign on the front of the building
and they had a sign on the side
And the front was like south west, right?
Yeah, Southwest. Okay.
And then what about on the, the other side?
This thing that was considered the south elevation?
'cause I saw the variance granted in 93 when Arbor Drugs
got a 96 square foot sign on the south elevation, it's hard
to tell when it's that building's on a diagonal,
Right?
Or was that part of,
Or I mean, in any event,
maybe we should clean that up tonight.
Um, I noticed I,
the petitioner was talking about it.
If it wasn't boxed in, well,
we stopped boxing in about four years ago.
We will go to the outer limits and go from there.
I believe this may not need a
variance at this point in time.
I believe it may be closer to the 90 square feet.
I don't have those dimensions to do that here right now.
Um, and,
and I do agree that the south elevation and,
and that is probably not correct
because of the way that building is angled.
Uh, so just,
I guess basically, 'cause I mean, I would have no problem
with the sign as long as they clean it up
and I, I don't wanna find out that, oh, we give permission
to this sign and then another one appears around the corner.
That's my concern. Right.
If we have that one sign,
and I think it actually should fall within the 96 square
feet to the, but is the existing pole sign still there?
There's gonna, I think they're gonna take over this.
The pole sign. The, is the
existing pole sign still there, Steve?
Uh, yes. The existing pole sign there.
Because you are to petition,
you're gonna be using the existing Yeah,
We're gonna re we are gonna reface the post on.
We're not gonna make it bigger or taller. Whatever's there.
We're just gonna reface it,
Which gives the visibility of 12 my line that
Not looking for a second sign on the building.
Go ahead. Any other comments from the board, Mr.
Chair? Mr. Cliff?
Yeah. Drawing that Up
I think looks like it's about six feet tall
and 36 feet wide.
The old one that was on the front on
that Southwest elevation. Oh, oh oh,
The, oh, the CVS? Yeah,
Probably. Sir.
Is that something you wanna look into
and maybe we do this again or postpone?
Um, no, we're happy with what, if we can get the size
that we're proposing, we, we would be totally,
um, okay with that.
Yeah. It's as tall as the entrance doors
and about Yes. Seven sign
Could save four. So
It's Seven Mr. Cliffs just to,
Perhaps The petitioner would rescind the,
the wall sign on the south elevation.
I think that would be a good, that's
Like Housekeeping item.
That's
Yeah. Yeah. 'cause it's,
I think the sign they're proposing is tastefully done.
Mm-hmm.
I merely wanted to point out that I thought that the one
that has been there previously was actually larger
It, It than what they're asking for.
But, you know, my stance on signs, so I'll yield the floor.
I mean, assuming it's, this is
drawn to scale, you're right.
The CVS sign looked like it's a lot bigger.
A lot bigger than that. But
Couple, The point I was trying to make is
that perhaps they didn't, so
What you're looking at is, um, when CVS was there, they,
they had more than 34 feet of space.
Um, they're also putting in a, a taco shop
and a pizza shop, which they changed to different addresses.
So it's calculated as different frontage.
So their frontage is only 34.
If you took the other two stores that are going next door
to it, which was at one time when it was all one CVS, it was
about, I think it was 75 or 80, 80 feet of frontage.
Now the frontage for the, um,
fruit market is only 34 feet.
So you're saying that there's gonna be there the taco
place and whatever, they're gonna have separate addresses.
There's a separate address
and they're each gonna have a separate sign and a separate
Address. Okay. Because our, I believe
our ordinance is 40 square
feet per address.
Yeah. Those, those, those addresses will
be under 40 square feet. 'cause they're small.
Okay. I thought we were getting off with a way ahead here,
but it sounds like there's gonna be two 40 foot
signs next to this.
But nonetheless, I I think it still tastes really done,
Mr. Chair. It makes me
actually, so I'm just curious then
with the pole sign,
'cause right now the pole sign, you know, had used
to have CVS that Ross School, I forget
and the restaurant at the other end, right?
So if you're refacing the CVS portion for your market,
are the taco, are, are we gonna find some future variants
that, let's say the other two businesses are gonna come
and say, oh, we have no visibility off of 12 mile.
I'm just wondering if that's gonna be
a problem we're run into. He already
Alluded to the fact that they're gonna have their own
separate size and that, I believe I heard him say
that they were going to be 40 foot square foot or less,
Which would be on the front of the building.
My question is, are they gonna come
and say, oh, we have no room on the pole sign
and oh, do we have no visibility?
Does a address give you a certain amount of square footage
and a pole sign automatically?
Zero? No. So it's just ms.
Um, the pole sign from
what they've told me is not gonna increase.
Um, this is also the owner of the
restaurant that's on the other side and everything.
Um, there was a pharmacy sign within that CVS.
So he believes that that's where the other two
restaurants will split that area.
It's gonna be allotted by the landlord
As allotted by the landlord
Goods. It's Ross.
Where's Ross? Mr.
Chair real quick.
Did the petitioner, would the petitioner be open
to rescinding that variance on the, on the south elevation
of the 96.6 square feet that was granted on June 9th, 1993?
What's the question? Would you be open
to rescinding the, the sign, um,
variance that was granted on June 9th, 1993
to erect a 96.6 square foot wall
sign on the south elevation.
Be six square foot, Kevin? No, he's saying, which
Is really the south Lease. Assume
Kind of, And I'll make a motion to approve that.
Okay. If they don't approve that they don't get new settled,
um, because of the split of the property.
That's why we're adding more so to Okay. Yeah.
So you're ex your Yeah. As you can resent it. Yeah. Kay.
Would you be open to that? Yes. Yes we are. Okay.
I'll Yield the floor.
Any other discussion comments
or does someone move to make a motion? Nobody else
Says anything to sale. Make a motion.
Make a motion
to grant the petitioner permission to install
124 square foot wall sign.
And also to rescind, um,
the variance grant on June 9th, 1993,
Um, To,
Um, For the, for the 96.6 square feet
of wall sign on the south elevation.
That'll be rescinded. But I'm inclined
to grant the petitioner's request based off of that
to install the 124 square foot wall sign due
to the fact size and shape it a a
lot. It's not a detriment to the
Area. Support
we,
Before we vote, can I interject real quick?
I'm, I'm looking at the area view of this building.
There's no defined south, there's no defined east,
there's no defined west.
I think it'd be a little more comfortable if we define that
for granting the permission to that 120 square foot
wall sign and designate that on the Southwest elevation
to avoid confusion in the future.
Is that your amendment, you to make an amendment to it?
Or, or just read it as such?
Would you be willing to amend your motion to reflect
that on the Southwest elevation?
Sure. Let read this again.
So I'm gonna withdraw my initial motion.
So I'm going to make a new motion to grant permission
to install 124 square foot wall sign.
And also to rescind the permission
to erect a 96.6 square foot wall sign on the southwest
elevation that was granted on June 9th, 1993.
Due to the fact the size of the shape of the lot.
It's not a detriment to the area.
So I think, I think we read that. Wait
A minute. Wrong. Wait. That's
rolling. Wait,
They read it wrong. You
said Southwest. Did
You? So
we're gonna rescind on the southeast
and the new signs going on the southwest.
I give up, I yield the floor. Re I retract my motion.
Go ahead, Mr. Cliffs.
Well, I'm not gonna support silent three times larger than
what the ordinance want is warranted for.
I'm just, somebody else is gonna have to read it.
I'm not intent on making that motion.
I was making suggestions for clarity.
Okay. I I make a motion here. Okay.
I, I make a motion to approve the petitioner's request
to install 124 square foot wall sign
behind the front facade of the building,
which will be the salva wall side of it, uh,
and rescinding the previous variance for the
southeast side of the building.
Um, reason being, uh, size and shape of the lot
and not detriment to the neighborhood support.
We have a motion by Mr. Sorowitz, support by Mr. Lindsay
to approve The request is read
Mr. Stoic.
Yes. For reason to state In the motion Mr. Lindsay Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Assessor, He asked
for the reason to state in the motion,
Mr. Cliff.
No, it's three times what the ordinance allows.
Mr. Green Yes. For the reason stated of the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reason.
State of the motion. Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. For reason.
State of motion Chairman Sia?
Yes. For the reason stated of the motion,
your modified request has been approved.
Thank you. Very advice. Thank you. Have a good evening.
This brings us to item 11.
Item 11, applicant sheets incorporated
representative zoning resources.
Rebecca Green Cameron. Description,
5 9 2 0 12 mile variances requested permission two.
Install the following signage.
One a 36.38 inch
by 85 inch.
2 21 0.47 square feet.
Wall sign on the north elevation of the building.
Two a 2222 inch by 108 inch.
16.50 square foot wall sign on the
north elevation of the building.
Three a 22 inch by 108 inch.
16.50 square foot wall sign on the
west elevation of the building.
Four a 19.62 inch by 96 inch.
13.08 square foot wall sign on the north
elevation of the canopy.
Five a 19.62 inch by 96 inch.
13.08 square foot wall sign on the west
elevation of the canopy.
Six a 20 foot high ground sign with 56.50 square feet
of signage to within 9.9 feet of the west property.
Line 6.9 of the northwest diagonal property line
and 14.4 feet of the north property.
Line seven gas pump signage, 12.48 square feet
valid signage area, 12.125.
Skirt signage area, 24.6 square feet per gas pump on 10 gas
pumps for a total of 246 square feet of pump signage
for a total of 364.60 square feet of wall signage
for items 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and seven.
Good evening.
Your name and address please. Yeah,
My name is Rebecca Green.
My address is 74 Glen Drive, Worthington, Ohio.
I'm here on behalf of Sheets of Farmington Hills, Michigan.
And this is a, we were aware that, um,
there were severe limitations signage for gas station
or for businesses and, uh, warrant.
So we came with a very reduced sign package.
Traditionally, uh, we have five signs in our buildings.
This one has three.
Um, and these are smallish signs with our,
the sheet sign itself, um, being, uh, under 20 square feet.
Um, and just delineating the entranceway.
Our, uh, canopy signage, generally sports,
five different signs.
In this case, we're only asking for two.
And the canopy edge does not have any striping, swooshes
or any other, uh, uh, indications of what it is
other than the 13.08 um, square foot foot
sheet sign that on that is on, uh,
facing two the public streets.
Uh, la uh, we also have just like many other si uh,
gas stations in the area, gas pump signage, we were asked
to include that as wall signage.
Our gas pumps have, um,
the word sheets on the valances, but not on the skirts.
Uh, nevertheless, the city asked us
to include both the skirt
and the valance as, uh, in our request.
And we did that. Our final piece is the ground sign,
which has, um, I think it's 56 57 square feet
of area, 20 feet height.
And then we are requiring a setback variance for
that particular sign.
The reason is, is this sign sits, the foundation
for this sign sits next to our underground, uh,
underground water detention facility.
Um, we don't wanna, uh, push it too close to that
because we don't wanna damage that.
Um, so we are requiring variances for that. Uh, set.
Uh, I think this sums are summarizes the, the,
the variances we're looking for.
Um, if you look about the, um, the city, many of this, uh,
existing gas stations have similar
signage that we are requesting.
I would suggest that the signage that we are asking
for is less than what you see typically in the City
of Warren for gas stations.
Um, I am happy to take your questions.
Thank you for those comments. This is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience who
wishes to speak on the side?
Not seeing anyone? I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion. Mr.
Chair. I'm sorry. I didn't hear Mr. Storz. Go
Ahead. I I,
I just have one question, a question on clarification,
because Yes, I saw where, you know,
the variance requested talks about the sign, uh,
the, the pole sign there
being 56.5 square feet of signage.
And in places in the documentation here,
I also saw a reference, like in your statement of support,
it talks about a ground sign being 75 square foot.
And, and I was just wondering, I just wanna make sure,
are we talking about 75 square feet
or are we talking about 56 square feet?
What the city reviewed my statement in support, they, uh,
calculated the sign area differently than I did.
Um, many jurisdictions calculated as an imaginary rectangle
around all different portions of the sign area
of the, the sign cabinets.
So, and this, the sheet signage, um,
generally does not come in a rectangle.
Um, it comes in like a, like a lollipop
piece that sits on the top.
And then the, uh, the,
the gas prices which are more rectangular at the bottom.
And if you do that imaginary triangle, you get a kind
of a larger area than is actually the sign cabinets.
The city calculates it as a, uh, sign cabinet
that says sheets and, uh, sign cabinets.
'cause they're two for the price portion of that sign.
So I just calculated in a different method.
Understood. You know, and it's such a shame.
I I, I wish I could understand why McCone
or imagine the county when they're doing Mound Road, why is
that burn so high when you're approached 12 Mile?
You know, because that's totally, I mean, I imagine
that's why they wanna sign so tall so
that way it can be seen over. Mm-hmm.
The actual appearance
of the sign though, it's, it's relatively modest. Yes,
I agree. Yeah, I agree.
I just wanted get a clarification on the
square footage over there.
I would just like to ask, there's,
there's gonna be no additional, uh, window signage
or donut signage, bagels, bur whatever other food offerings
or our, this is the entire sign package.
Uh, there will be, I'm, I'm sure, uh,
less than 25 a a couple signs on the door.
Um, and also there'll be like construction signage
during the construction period.
Okay. Um, those are typically placed on the banners.
Are there usually banners placed on the construction fence?
Um, and they're only there
during the time that the fence is there.
Those are taken down. Um,
and again, they do put two small, less than 25%
of the total pain of each door.
They do put, um, a small sign there.
Usually it, uh, is relating to hiring.
Okay. That all seems normal. Mr. Chair,
Secretary Jersey To the petitioner.
Um, good evening, ma'am.
Um, so I'm gonna pose the same question I
posed to the last petitioner.
Um, would you be willing to, um,
relinquish all the current variances there currently on both
properties on 59 20 12 mile and 2 8 9 5 0 mound?
I, I'm unaware of what those
Bearings are. So one of 'em is
to retain an existing ground site.
It's 18 feet overall in height.
Um, another one is, um, to erect a eight foot
by 10 foot, 80 square foot freestanding ground sign.
Um, that went along with the Victory Inn.
Um, there's another request, um, granted permission
for a 13 foot by 33 foot, 27 foot eight inch high.
Uh, looks like almost like a dumpster closure, I think.
Uh, Oh. We granted the more recent dumpster
and enclosure variance, eight
Inch heights within 16 feet of the front property line.
Um, and also grant permission to, um,
retain existing hard surface parking, um,
along the property lines along 12 Mile Mound Road.
Um, and also to er rectify foot
by seven foot three five square foot ground
sign, 19 foot high.
My, my, my concern is just all these varis on the property,
if we're gonna grant the additional, you know, all
that would go with the land as well. So,
Well, I understand what you're saying.
It's just that I I I'm unclear if any of that is relating
to the current construction.
Maybe this, maybe this gentleman,
This is all relating to a prior user that's, yeah, I mean,
if it's relating to a prior user, I don't have a problem
with it, but I'm just don't wanna,
Maybe this guy could actually shed some light on it.
Yeah. Steve, I believe the dumpster was sheets.
If, if I was trying to find and go along with you.
Um, yeah, the dumpster was for sheets.
They came for that for all their projects up front when
they're going through planning, the rest of them,
I would say are related to
other activities and other signage. We can look at
These. The eight foot high
dumpster,
it looks like it was approved through like a
Proof though. This was
Yeah. Yeah.
Silk and gold. Yeah, it was intermediate.
It was Okay. Yes,
That Sheets. Gotcha.
So, so the other two's
Approved. Yeah, but we're
not doing this, huh?
This I don't, I think it
Right.
So the others are related
to signs I think are not related to sheets.
Okay. Would You be willing to get rid of all the signs,
Which Yeah,
Just to try to clean up the, the property
and make sure we aren't, you know, since we're granting,
you know, more already.
I just didn't want it to be an overburdening thing
on that property.
Understand. I, I mean if this is,
if these are variances related to prior, prior users
and not to the sheets development.
Okay. And that
Sounds, thank you ma'am. I'll yield the floor.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Green,
One quick question.
So in reference to the ground sign, it, it says
that the setback will be 2.3 feet from Mong Road.
So when we, that was our initial site plan
that we had submitted.
And when I wrote my statement in support, that is correct.
That's what I had. But
after that, we got a, uh,
updated site plan from the civil engineer,
which I believe was, I mean, I submitted it
to, um, the city.
And so it had updated numbers and
It's, This is the new one.
So what, So on new one,
What we're approving then is this one
That's the request is the new one
I, I'm requesting. Mm-hmm.
What the new, the site plan that was updated.
I'm using that one and four. Um,
So what's the setback gonna be on the
mount on the mound road side?
Well, there's three sides to that.
It's going to be 9.9 from the west property line,
which the mound 6.9
from the northwest diagonal,
because the property line cuts there.
There's an angle, so it's gonna be closer to the angle,
but further from the complete intersection.
And 14.4 from the north
Property. So
Wide is the right of way that
There's gotta be an easement there.
I mean, it it's
Not in the right of way, is it? It's
Not, it's not in the right of way.
No, it's, that's
How far it is from the right of way.
That those are the setback Back from
Go ahead, Ms. Green. Those
are distances from the setback from,
'cause it's a 20 foot sign.
My understanding is that we needed a 20 foot, uh, setback.
Alright, thank you. And the reason we need these setbacks,
these revised or these, what we need variances for is
because of the underground water retention system.
It's very close to that foundation.
Got it. Thank you.
So from the right.
Thank you. Mm-hmm.
It was confusing the way.
There's no other discussion or comes
Check. Someone
Moved to make a motion.
Make a motion. Please do
Make Motion as read.
I I I would like to make a motion
to approve the petitioner's request
as previously read into the record.
Reasons being, uh, size and shape of the lot.
Uh, not a, a detriment to the neighborhood,
but also rescinding the previous, uh, uses
of the ordinances from 1964.
88, 2000.
Can't hear you, Rob. Oh, Sorry. Go ahead.
Sorry about that. It's good. I, sorry.
A it for you to try and make it easier
and just rescinding the ordinances
that were previously approved for the Victory Inn
and the used car lot back in 64, 88 15
and 1996.
Um, and the reasons being size
and shape of the lot, not a detriment
to neighborhood support.
We have a motion, uh, Mr.
Sitz support by Mr. Lindsay to approve. The request is read
Mr. SVI
guess for reason stated in the motion. Mr. Lindsay?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the
Motion. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. Further the reason stated motion. Mr.
Cliff? No, it's nine times the size of the ordinance.
Allow us for signage. Mr. Green. Yes.
For the reason stated Mr. Watts? Yes.
For the reason stated in motion. Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For re state in motion. Chairman
Faye? Yes. For the reason stated
in the motion.
Your request has been approved. Thank
You so much. Thank you.
Thanks for sticking around tonight.
This brings us to item 12, new business.
The first, uh, item being, uh, discussion of officer,
uh, positions for the 20 25, 20 26,
um, term.
I I think that's correct, right? The term Is it for January?
Does it, does the term start
September at the End?
The end of September. Okay.
Yeah, I think it were late.
I doing the elections, but it postponed, sorry, we postponed
So that more people could be here.
Okay. So the, um, whatever the outcome is,
tonight's the term
or whatever the office position would take us back
upon that meeting.
Correct. Okay. So I guess what we can do is we can start
with, um, maybe, we'll, we'll work backwards.
Start with assistant secretary
and accept nominations and then we can vote.
Is that
give you a second?
No, you're good. Go ahead. You're
Okay. So the first, uh,
officer position is assistant secretary.
Mr. Chair. Mr. Green, I'll nominate Mr. Watts.
You make a motion to nominate Mr. Watts.
Mr. Watts, do you accept that nomination?
I think so, yeah. Okay.
Any other, uh, contenders for assistant secretary?
Not seeing any. All in favor to appoint, uh, Mr.
Watts's assistant secretary? All in favor a
Aye. Congratulations
Mr. Watts. You're now assistant secretary.
Woo.
Okay.
Yeah. And now the next position. Secretary.
I'd like to make a nomination for Mr. Jersey.
He's done a fantastic job as secretary
and I'd like to nominate him to do it
for another year if he would accept that. I'll
Support it.
Any other contenders for secretary?
Not seeing anyone. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye.
Well, I forgot to, aye,
I didn't ask if you accepted the
nomination except the nomination.
Okay. Too late. You're,
you're stuck with us for another year.
Congratulations. Secretary of Jersey for another, uh,
term as Mr.
Chair. I have a question, Mr. Lindsay, should we be doing,
uh, roll call, vote on these or not?
Um, it probably would be better housekeeping,
but I, I, I think we should do, I I'm fine how we've done it
so far, but I wanna clarify as we move forward.
I'm, I'm okay with the, uh,
all in favor vote when there's just one.
Um, one. Nomination. Nomination.
If there's more than one, obviously we'll do a, um, okay.
You know a name roll call
unless, um, Madam Attorney thinks otherwise. No,
I think I'm gonna double check real quick.
I think it just, I just needs a majority vote. I think so.
I don't know if it matters how we do it.
If you would be more comfortable with that,
we could do that moving forward.
Or, or if you wanna make a motion to, to do that. Whatever.
Uh, it was, it was more of a question.
I only get that. Do you think we're okay? Yeah. Okay.
The next, uh, position as vice chairman,
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a
motion to,
um, to nominate Mr.
Cliff for, uh, vice President.
Mr. Cliff, do you accept your nomination?
Oh, I was looking a little harder at being the chair,
but I'll accept that nomination.
Thank you. Any other contenders for vice chairman? Mr.
Chair? Mr. Wa, uh,
Motion to or, uh, Roman? Mr. Nick, Mr.
Have you been nomination for Mr. Cliff? Mr.
Sitz, do you accept the nomination?
Any other nominations for Vice Chairman? None.
We'll do a, a roll call to place your vote for Mr.
Sorowitz or Mr. Cliff?
Uh, we will start with Mr. Lindsey.
What For Mr. Cliff? Mr. Uh, I'll vote for Mr. Cliff.
Mr. Watts? Mr. Mr. Green? Mrs.
I, Mr. Cliff, does he get the vote for I'm holding
For myself to Believe Mr.
Sasser. Mr.
Cl, Mr. Store?
I vote for myself. Mr. Jersey votes for Mr.
CLT and Chairman Siah.
I vote for, uh, Mr. Starwood.
So now we got a four four tie.
Okay. I call, we duke it out on the no
Arm wrestling contest.
Now what? I,
It, this is a thirst for me.
Threw me a suck.
It'd be great if we had a full board.
Yeah. Wouldn't that place? Yeah,
It still have a full board.
I mean, it's not gonna make a difference.
We say the nominees can't vote because,
Right. Yeah. Tie
Still be a tie.
Let's just do a toss of a coin.
Unless somebody wants the coin,
A coin toss or somebody wanna withdraw their
nomination, or
I'm standing fast.
They look fast. I'd allow
Us coin toss unless there's a more legal avenue.
You got the coin. Steve, you got the coin? Or
That you fine?
Oh, just the receipt for my suit.
Hey, Mary. Yes, please, please.
Seriously. I don't know if this is legal.
I think we need to find out what
Robber's rule of order says.
I know. I'm trying. Okay.
Perfector, I'm gonna put a motion on the
floor to settle the tie.
Vote for the position of vice chair to be put up
to a coin toss
Floor.
Yeah.
Should We wait or should
Or should we wait if there's a more,
or should we wait for a full board or something like that?
Wait is a tough for me.
I mean, it's been a tough sled trying to get a two.
I mean, I, I I kind of concur about that too.
Uh, But we gotta have this done.
We gotta get this done. I
Would that be appropriate
to vote on the, on the motion now? Or is there
I'm, I'm What can
We All I'm binding is that it says it's, uh,
denied because it, it has to be,
It's gotta be there. Five or
six. So
Take a new vote.
Hold on Everybody.
Everybody go Fair vote. Vote Gate.
Yeah. Won't be here all night. Mr. Chair. Mr. Reitz?
Uh, I was gonna say, I actually withdraw
My nomination and, um, Mr.
Clifton,
Mr. Mr. Sorowitz, that's
mighty big of you and I appreciate
That. Which sounds right,
Paul,
But if I do a lousy job, you're taking over the,
Sorry.
Hi. But there you go. Just so we know, I,
I have the answer to Manalia.
First step is to recount the vote, announce the tie
hold a new vote Only the candidates
who were in the tie are voted on.
It continues until one person receives them.
Mr. Assessor, Thank you for that.
Oh, me,
Mr. Sitz, thank
you for withdrawing. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Cliff.
Congratulations. Thank you. Okay.
And last but not least, chairman,
Mr. Chair, I'd like to
make a motion to
select you as, uh, Mr.
SFAs chair. Again. Mr. I think he's done a pretty good job.
Thank you. I accept the nomination.
Are there other, um, dominations tonight
I'll vote to nominate.
Mr. Neitz. Mr.
Sitz, do you accept the nomination chair?
Um, yes,
Mr. Chair.
Mr. Wa I'll Nominate Mr. Green.
Mr. Green, do you accept the nomination? No.
Any other nominations tonight?
You want to think about it a minute or not?
That was a quick No, miss. That was
A Quick Well, it was pretty quick.
He said no, And it'll
just, so, so
We'll take a vote.
No other nominations. Okay. Yeah.
I'm gonna make a nomination. I'm gonna nominate Mr.
Assessor or Chair.
Mr. Assessor, do you accept the nomination?
Thanks, but No, I declined.
Thank you. No Candy bars for,
So we'll put this to the vote, um, between Mr.
SFA and Mr. Nevi. Uh, Mr. Lindsay Mr. Mr.
Nevi, Mr. Watts. Mr.
Vic, Mr. Green.
Mrs.
It says Mr. Siah.
Oh, Sorry,
Mr. Cliff.
No, that's a tough one.
I'm gonna cast my ballot for Mr. Ms, which just to give Mr.
Sophia a break,
Mr. Assessor,
Mr. Sofa, Mr.
Nato?
Vote for myself. I put there
Mr. Jersey votes for
Mr. Sia and Mr. Aya.
I'll Vote for myself.
Here we are again. No
Four piece.
So, See, Mr.
Assessor, if you would've took that nomination,
we wouldn't be in this mess.
It's True.
It would've been unanimous. Pick.
Should I take another Vote or
Are you guys want to
Alright. Russell Lynn.
Mr. Starz, if, if you'd like to be chairman for the year,
I'm, I would happy to step outta the way.
I You've been doing a great job too.
That's a thing, Annie. You guys
Do a great job. So it's
a tough decision,
But I will, I will step down if you'd like to be chair
You accept what you accept. I would
Congratulations. Congratulations
to the new chairman.
So, to be clear, we have our new chairman's, Roman Auvi.
Her vice chair is William Cliff, secretary Paul Jersey,
assistant Secretary Gary Watts.
All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. And this
Takes effect. I just wanna
make sure I understand. Next
meeting or the following?
When, when does this take effect? This
Takes, yeah. I
Believe it's October. It's,
I believe it's Next meeting. Am
I correct? Recall Next meeting.
Okay.
Just in September or October?
Yeah. There's one more meeting in September. Yes. Yes.
Okay. Correct. September, 2040.
24th. Fourth.
It brings us to the meeting. Start time.
Um, so under new business, we get a new, um,
discussion of the meeting start time.
So I'd like to make a motion to move our,
our meeting time to seven o'clock
Discussion. Yeah.
Can we have some discussion around this?
Sure. Yeah. Kidding.
Because the last time we met that time did not work
for Mr. Lindsay.
Yeah. And so I want hear favor, Mr. Lindsay.
First of all, I'm understanding this wouldn't take effect.
The proposal is for January, January, starting in January.
Okay. Are you,
Mr. Linzer, you
have said you have a conflict that, uh,
So when we met last, we had no discussion.
It was up for a vote.
I've not even heard reasons why the board wants to move.
So I, I would like to know where's it coming from?
What's drawing that I, I've had no information up to.
Oh, we're already voting on a new start type.
So, so if anybody has information,
So my, my, the way I I approach this is, you know, we,
a it would be nice to mirror the same
time as, as city council.
I mean, that, that, I mean,
but that's, that's, that's not my point of contention.
My point of contention with a seven to seven,
seven o'clock start time is we have a lot
of opinions now on this board where meetings are,
are becoming longer.
You know, we don't have six people just sitting here
rubber stamping and everything.
And thank god for that. Yeah.
You know, I respect everybody's decision,
everybody's opinion on this board to the utmost degree.
Um, but I think a seven o'clock start time,
which Friday, get us outta here.
Not at, what is it now? Nine 40.
I mean, we get us outta here at nine o'clock,
so we're kinda saving a half hour in the evening
by starting a half hour earlier is try.
I'm just trying to get us home a little bit earlier for,
you know, to enjoy our evening.
Yeah. So that's, that, that was my only,
that was my only concern and, and point of doing this.
Yeah, no, I, I, I think at,
on a surface level, it makes sense.
Um, my thought about it is, I, I agree.
I would love to get home earlier.
I don't like getting home at 10
o'clock a after these meetings.
Um, I don't know that, uh, a a
a sooner start time.
An earlier start time, I should say,
gets us outta here earlier.
I, I don't think our meetings are ran efficiently.
I think tonight was an example of that.
Uh, I would like to see more decorum on the board.
Um, if we're, if we're closing public portions
of the meeting, let's, let's close the public portions
of the meeting and allow the board to have their discussion.
Um, I think having more efficiencies in
how the meeting's being ran helps with getting us out,
uh, at a better time.
The other, the other thing with that,
um, I don't know about you guys.
When I get to work earlier, I'm like,
I'm getting work early, get my work
done so I can leave earlier.
It's never happened once, so I'm always leaving late.
So, um, I just don't know
that an earlier start time gets the, the accomplished goal.
I think it's a nice, nice effort to try.
Um, my personal feelings against it.
I mean, if, if the board wants to move, I don't want
to be the one person standing in the way.
It, it does pose more of a personal challenge for me.
Um, I'm not always outta work right at five o'clock.
I, you know, I can't leave sometimes.
And starting at seven, I think there are gonna be instances
where I will be rushed to get here by seven.
I'll likely be skipping a meal.
I won't see my wife that night.
I mean, I gotta skip church on Wednesday,
uh, to get here at seven.
So there, there's a lot of personal reasons
that the seven 30 start time works better for me.
But again, um, you know, I,
I'm dedicated to being on this board.
I, I committed to serving at least this term.
So, uh, if that's what the board unanimously wants,
I don't wanna get in the way of it.
Understood. Mr. Chair, Mr. Cliff. I echo a lot of Mr.
Lindsay's sentiment.
Getting started early doesn't necessarily translate into
getting done earlier.
Um, I think that that's more impactful on scheduling.
And again, as he stated,
how we conduct our business here as a board.
Um, stay on the road, stay out of the weeds,
things go a little bit smoother.
On a personal note, um,
I'm a regular full-time employee guy.
I do my 40 plus a week.
I now have 2 5 0 1 C3 LLC
corporations that I'm running.
And, uh, when I transition out from
Cleary University in December with my BBA,
I'm continuing on from my masters.
And usually class night is Wednesday nights.
So lately it's a struggle for me to get here
for a seven 30 start, let alone a a seven o'clock.
I'm just making my, I'll make it
work, whatever I have to do.
Um, but I just, on the face of it,
early on, I thought that was a great idea to move the time.
I'm not really convinced that it's gonna make
very much a difference at the end of the day.
And you're right, Mr. Jersey, it's not rubber stamp anymore.
People are asking questions, entertaining notions,
and it's important to have those discussions.
So, um, we'll do whatever we have to do to make it work
To be fair to the board.
But I also have to be fair to myself
and my continuing education and my businesses.
So at that, I'll yield the floor.
So, Mr. Chair, Mr. Schwartz, you know, uh,
earlier start time does not bother me,
but what would actually bother me is if we moved the time
to an earlier start time
and it was a detriment to other board members
because I understand that they can dare say they could try
to meet, you know, make it and such.
I'd be worried that we'd be, I I don't think a majority vote
of moving a time if it inconveniences
and makes it difficult for any board members to attend
is a good reason to move the meeting up a half hour.
You know, it's like I'd rather if it, if the time's not good
for everybody, I would not want us
to move the time. That how I'm saying.
And might I also add sometimes when we have our special
meetings kind of short notice.
I know for me that, that that's, that's a, a big struggle
because I have to move.
There's stuff, there's stuff in my lineup every night.
I'm busy every evening.
And when, when we have our special meetings
or our unscheduled meetings, that
that becomes difficult as well.
I, I personally feel the pinch on that, that something has
to, I'm dedicated to the board.
And when I appear here on special evenings or,
or normally not scheduled evenings,
something somewhere else is having to take a back seat
or be missed that evening.
I just, I just wanted to throw that out there.
Mr. Mr. Chair. Mr. Wats.
I don't care either way. Me too. But,
But I, I think it's making the meetings uniform.
Planning is at seven, council's at seven.
We would be at seven. You know,
when I came here, I was at seven 30.
First thing I thought is, why is at seven 30?
Again, it doesn't matter to me.
The other thing is, I dunno if anybody's aware,
but counsel last night passed next year's meeting schedule
with a 7:00 PM start time.
I don't know where that puts us.
I know that, I know that 7:00 PM doesn't take
effect till January one.
I don't know how that affects anybody here,
but just, uh, like I said,
I don't know how that affects that boat.
So,
Thank you.
I know there were, uh, questions last time when we came up
with this, if it was even our authority.
I did look at the bylaws.
Um, the bo has the authority to set the,
the meeting time and the place.
So I, I'm comfortable that it is our decision.
Um, you know, I stated my, my thing about it.
The other thing, you know, if we move it up,
not saying it would, but do we start seeing two,
three more agenda items get added to the list
because we have more time in the evening.
We'll see. We'll see. Sounds like a non-binary.
I trust you, Nicole. Do we have a motion
to take a, a vote to change the time?
Or do we want to just leave it at discussion?
Withdraw my motion.
But in the process of finding out that it doesn't work,
something, something is gonna hap something will happen
to force us to have to move it back.
And I don't think any of us are comfortable
with playing the Let's try it
and see game only to have it fall on its face
and something that needs to be addressed or,
or whatever gets missed or not handled the way it should.
Thank you Mr. Jersey for withdrawing your motion.
I second that. Thank you. Thank you. Kinda question
Mr. Assessor.
Um, through the chair to the attorney.
Now, is it our bylaws as a board
or does counsel set the time
because we are an extension of counsel.
Oh, you you're asking me. Yeah. Yeah.
Um, I, I don't necessarily know
that other than being appointed by counsel,
that you're an extension of counsel.
Go ahead Nicole. Yes.
No. The rules of procedure. Yeah.
Give the authority to the, the board members to,
And if that doesn't work, we can move the meetings till
4:00 AM before
Work.
Dust. And do you
They voted last night.
Oh, okay. On the schedule and the time. Start time. Okay.
Motion to adjourn. Support. All in favor?
You guys Favor support a Motion by Secretary Jersey.
Support by Mr. Lindsay to adjourn. All in favor? Aye.
Meeting adjourned at 9 49.
I'm sorry. I.