I had like to call to order a regular meeting on the
zoning board of appeals for Wednesday,
September 24th at 7:30 PM Please rise
for the Pledge of Allegiance.
Pledge allegiance to the flag,
the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands.
One nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.
Uh, Roll call
Mr. Safiya.
It's absent.
Mr. Green Present. Mr. Perry? Present. Mr. Lindsay?
Present. Mr. Cliff
Present. Mr. Watts?
Present. Mr. Assessor present. Mr.
Jersey's present. Chairman starch,
Uh, present.
I'd like to make a motion to
I'll, I'll make the motion to, uh, excuse, uh, Mr. Sia
Support.
All in favor? A. Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Okay. Mr.
Safa is excused. Option of the agenda,
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make
a motion to, um, remove item nine,
um, from the agenda and keep the rest as written.
Point Of order. Reason for removal?
Um, we are going to the,
the petitioner has withdrawn the motion. I'll
Support that motion.
Do we have a motion and support? Uh, all in favor?
An opposed? Okay. Agenda is approved with that change.
Next was approval of the minutes, but
Mr. Chair? Yeah. I'd
like to make a motion to, um,
postpone the approval of the minutes of the regular meeting
of August 13th, 2025.
August 27th, 2025,
and September 10th, 2025 to the October 8th meeting.
Support. Okay. We have a motion by Mr.
Jersey and support by Mr.
Cliff to move the minutes, uh, approval
to June the next meeting.
All in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed?
Uh, minutes will be approved.
Next meeting takes this to item number six. Item
Six, applicant Martin Jones, representative Martin Jones.
Description, 2 1 7 3 5 variance has requested permission
to retain setback of the front porch to within 21 feet
of the front property line.
And 22 feet of the sidewalk
Is the petitioner present.
Please approach. And actually, for all petitioners,
when you come up, state your name and your full address
before you, uh, take us through your request.
Oh. And you may have to press the, okay. Go ahead. Okay.
So we, no, uh,
Just make sure the green light's on. There you go.
Martin Jones. Perfect. Yes.
21 7 3 5 ER Avenue, Warren, Michigan,
4 8 0 8 9.
Okay. And what is your request today?
It is a request to, um, retain the setback
of the front porch within 21 feet of the front property line
and 22 of the sidewalk.
Okay. So, So that my front porch matches everybody
else's on the street.
Okay. Uh, thank you for that explanation.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Not seeing anybody in the audience,
or close the public portion
and turn it over to the board for questions and discussion.
Mr. Chair, real, real quick? Yes, Mr. To the petitioner.
Um, so you're just replacing the old one, uh,
making a, a little larger one?
Um, no, there isn't one there.
All there is is like a front stoop. Yep.
And I was just looking to match that
and extend it out towards the
driveway and have a front porch.
Gotcha. I mean, this seems like a, to me,
a reasonable request that, you know, we've,
we've seen in the past, um,
and love to see you have, have a porch, you know,
to enjoy your, enjoy your neighborhood
and things of that nature.
So, um, I'll yield the floor right now.
Any other questions or discussion? Mr.
Chair? Yes, Mr. Lindsay, uh,
one quick question to the petitioner.
Um, so are you planning on building that to the edge
of the house or to the edge of the driveway?
Um, I'm planning to do it to the edge of the house.
Okay. You, you said driveway.
I thought it would be the edge of the house.
When I look at the pictures, I'm fine
with it being to the edge of the house.
I didn't really wanna see it go to the driveway.
But, uh, thanks for clarifying
Mr. Chair. If nobody else
has anything else,
I'd like to make a motion on this item. Go ahead, Mr.
Jersey. Uh, I'd like to make a motion
to grant the petitioner permission to retain a setback
of the front porch to within 21 feet
of the front property line and 22 feet of the sidewalk due
to the fact the size and shape of the lot,
and it's also not detriment to the area
Support.
So we have motion by Mr.
Jersey, support by Mr. Lindsay
to approve the request for reason stated,
Mr. Jersey votes Yes. For
reason. State in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reason, stated the motion
Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reasons stated Motion. Mr. Green? Yes.
For the reasons stated in The motion. Mr. Cliff?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the
Motion. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
And Chairman Stevi? Uh,
Yes. For reason stated motion,
your request is approved.
Thank you. Mm-hmm.
Takes us to item number
Seven. Item seven, applicant
Ralph and Diane Maron.
Um, representative Ralph Maron.
Common description, 3 0 1 2 2 Ano variances requested
permission to one, allow two detached accessory structures.
Two, allow accessory structures
to not be placed against any other accessory structure.
Total combined accessory structure, floor area
of 651 square feet,
which includes a 411 square foot attached garage.
Does not exceed the allowable 700 square feet.
Mr. Chair? Uh, yes, Mr. Green, I'm gonna
Ask to abstain from voting on this item.
It's a neighbor of mine. He's approached me a couple times
in relationship to this item.
Just for clarification, I made it clear I can't discuss it
with him, but, so there's no appearance of conflict.
I'm gonna ask to abstain from voting.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Green. So
He should actually leave the stage.
Should I? No, I think he stage
The stage. Well,
actually, we had a request, uh, from Mr. Green
to excuse himself from this item.
Uh, do we have a motion to support that
or I'll, I'll make a motion to excuse.
Okay. We have, I'll support.
All in favor of excusing Mr. Green. Aye. Aye.
Anybody opposed? Okay.
So, Mr. Green, you're excused from item number seven
and depend, Alex, that means you would need
to actually leave the stage for this portion.
Okay. So if the petitioner could start with your name
and address and, and then take us through your request.
Good evening, Ralph. March 3, 0 1, 2, 2 Cousin
Oak Drive. Warren.
Okay. And, um, uh, the request is for, to attach,
allow two structures within the backyard, not attached.
I'm sorry, I don't know the language of the ordinance,
but, uh, it, I, I included a small sketch
and, uh, I have a, um,
a covered gazebo, hard covered outside of the, uh,
our, on our patio.
And, uh, I removed a old shed that was, uh, weathered
and, uh, three feet from the house.
And it was on, uh, six by 12 paver blocks.
It wasn't we wall or approved or anything.
And so, um, I'd like to, uh, reinstall a, a shed out,
uh, by the back fence line.
Uh, I have a slab already that's been approved
with the rat wall and everything.
Uh, it's an with, uh, up to code.
There's a, uh, easement back there,
six feet plus the one foot.
And, uh, my property abuts the, uh,
general Motors Tech center woods.
So there are no people behind me.
And, uh, it wouldn't interfere with, uh, the neighbors,
or I think the closest neighbor across is over a hundred
yards and there's woods.
Okay. Thank you for that description of your request.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Uh, if you could come forward to the microphone,
you might just step aside to let the other resident, uh,
if we can get your name and address also.
Uh, yeah, for sure. Kamal at 49 31 Uriel Drive.
Okay. I'm a neighbor.
Uh, came to show support for the Marnis.
Um, they have a beautiful backyard.
I don't think a, uh, shed, a shed would look, um,
quite distinct from a covered patio.
Um, their backyard looks beautiful
and it would continue to look beautiful with a shed.
So I'm completely in support
of the marnis variance request. Okay.
Thank you for those comments.
Was there anyone else in the audience
wanting to speak on this item?
Not seeing any. I will close the public portion
and turn it over to the board for discussion and questions.
Uh, Mr. Chair, just to, to, to the petitioner.
Um, the, the sketch wasn't included in our packet,
so we just received, we just received one.
So we're just allowing a couple other
board members to digest that.
Thank you. And, um, you know,
just give us a couple seconds here to digest it.
Pretty self-explanatory.
The, the, uh, the pad that was poured is, uh,
off at the site line from the street.
I made sure it was all that. And, uh,
Yeah. Just give us one second,
sir.
To, to, I'm sorry to get through that.
So I don't have any further questions.
Mr. Chair? Uh, yes. Mr. What?
I got it. I got a couple questions.
Did you, so you already poured the slab for the
Yes, sir. I wasn't
aware that I wasn't allowed for the two structures.
It's a, it's a gazebo that's with a hardcover,
and I wasn't aware that I, it wasn't allowed two structures,
the, the ordinance.
I, I didn't even know what ordinance I was appealing
until I got my package.
So, is the shed up already? No, sir.
All right. Um,
has that had an inspection yet?
I'm sorry? Has the cement work had an
inspection yet? Yes, sir.
It's, uh, been approved.
Okay. Um,
so my other question is, I did a drive by.
I drive by all the stuff, stuff,
and I noticed fresh cement for the driveway to the right
as you're facing the front of your home.
Yes. And I have a question for
our zoning inspector on that.
'cause I assume you're probably poured
dead at the same time?
Yes, Sir. Okay. Mr.
Watchpoint, would that be up to co Would that be up to code?
Um, we did have an inspector out there today,
and we only allow the driveway to the edge
of the garage on both sides, and it did not meet that.
So I believe an enforcement letter will be going out.
If it didn't go out today, it'll be going out shortly.
Okay. Supper enforcement
And the, the, the, uh, slab with the rat wall
for the shed, that was okay?
Uh, I'm not sure.
I, I, it would be a building
inspector that would've went out there.
Oh, okay. But in the rear yard you can pour the
cement without a permit.
So that wouldn't have been a problem if, if it was poured
and he put the footings in there,
the inspection part would be to make sure that, uh,
there's the rat wall.
Okay. Which it could be dug out at once
it's secured and everything. Fair enough.
Fair enough. Alright. Thank you. Okay. That's all I have.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Cliff.
Good evening, sir. Good evening.
My questions are pertaining to your gazebo.
Um, open sided. Has it got walls?
Kind of gimme a little description. It's,
Um, uh, open.
All four sides are open. Okay.
It's not, uh, bo it's not attached to the slab.
Uh, it's that, it's, uh,
I believe it's three feet away from the house. I
Is it one of those big box store type of gazebos?
Yes, sir. Okay. All right.
I don't have an aversion to that as long
as it's not got walls on it.
Um, yeah,
I don't have a problem with this all the way around.
I yield the floor.
Any other questions or discussion? Sure.
Mr. Chair, if nobody else
has anything to say, I'll make a motion.
I'd like to make a motion to grant the petitioner's request
to one, allow two detach access accessory structures.
Two, allow accessory structures
to not be placed against any other
access accessory structure.
Agree if I can't talk. Total combined accessory structure
floor area of 651 square feet,
which includes a 411 square foot attached garage,
does not exceed the allowable 700 square foot.
Due to the fact the size and shape of land is
absolutely not a detriment to the area support.
So We have a motion by Mr. Jersey, support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the request
for a reason. Stated in the motion,
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reason
stated in the motion. Mr. Cliff?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reason stated in the
Motion Mr. Perry? Yes.
For the reason stated in motion. Mr.
Assessor? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Chairman of starch?
Uh, yes. For reason stated in the motion
your request is approved.
Thank you. May I ask when it would be recorded?
I'd like to, uh, order of the shed.
I, I say go talk to talk to Steve.
Steve over there on I side.
Thank you. Thank you.
Have a good evening. Takes us to item number eight.
Item eight. Applicant. City of warm town. BA marto.
Representative Hunter Manus. Common description.
2 3 1 5 7 Van D**e
variances Requested
Permission, Permission to one,
construct a building zero feet from the north property line
along Continental Avenue.
Two. Construct a building zero feet from the east property
line along Van D**e Avenue.
Three. Construct a building zero feet from the south
property line along Page Avenue.
Four. Allow a residential use in a C two zoning district.
That's a use variance five Construct a three story building
and C two zoning.
District six. Allow a parking lot,
five feet from the front property line along Continental
Avenue seven wave 24 required parking spaces.
Uh, good evening board members, thank you
for taking the time and consideration
for these requests. Uh, it's very much appreciated.
Uh, can I just interrupt you for one second?
First of all, I mean, we will need your full name
and address, but I realize that item four on here is a use.
We are down one board member today.
So since it's a use variance, I just wanted
to give an opportunity if you wanted to postpone
to have a full board.
Um, you had that opportunity. 'cause uh, use variance.
You need six yeses.
I wasn't sure if, uh, if you wanna proceed or
I believe we'll be okay to proceed.
Okay. And then, sorry for that interruption.
If you could just then start with your name and address
and then your request.
Yeah. Hunter Manus,
economic development with the City
of Warren. Uh, one City Square.
Okay. So as stated, uh,
we are requesting the zero lot lines,
the residential use in a C two zoning district.
A three story building, parking, uh,
five feet from the front property line on Continental
and to wave 24 parking spaces.
This development came to be through, uh, a lot of hard work
with the MEDC,
which is the Michigan Economic Development Corporation.
Uh, our city is striving to become a member
of their RSC program certified.
They have some requirements in terms of, uh,
meeting that criteria.
Uh, this project aligns with a lot of what they would like
to see in the future in the city of Warren.
That being mostly more flexible parking, zero lot lines
and, uh, residential allowance in a commercial district.
Um, it's been very difficult
to get construction built down on the south side of Warren.
Uh, long Van D**e there were working really hard
to bring a lot of new investment development,
create new jobs, really, uh, revitalize the area.
We worked in partnership with Dr.
Fadi, who owns a medical clinic in Warren already.
He was looking to expand and speaking to us about it.
And after we had met with the MEDC, kind of came up
with the idea that this would be a great spot for it.
The land that it's on is congruent and owned by the tiff.
A board. Um, that is not very common.
There are lots certainly that they own along Van D**e,
but nothing of this sizeable nature.
Uh, the MEDC, uh, due to the infeasibility,
there's about a $1.8 million gap between what
the construction would cost
and, uh, what it would take
to actually turn a profit on this construction.
So they are willing to put forward $1.8 million, uh,
as a grant towards the City of Warren for this project.
Uh, a lot of the enticement
to them was this more modern design, uh,
that being the zero lot lines, uh, less restricted parking
and the, uh, residential and medical use.
Overall, we think that this will act as a anchor
for economic activity in the area and further investment.
Uh, it also aligns with the City of Warren Master plan,
as well as the Van D**e corridor plan
and implementation plan, which have been designed.
Uh, if there's any questions that you have,
I'd be happy to answer 'em. Thanks.
Okay. Thank you for that information.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Not seeing any or close the public portion.
Oh, and we do have, uh,
if you could read into the state record
impact statement to read in.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, per round worth
and, uh, of the planning department, um,
after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local
or general public petitioner received site plan approval
for mixed use development for my health medical facility
and multifamily development on March 10th, 2025.
Thank you. Mr. Jersey Chair. Uh, yes.
Well, the public portion's now closed.
I'd like to turn it over to the
board for question discussion.
And then Mr. Green, you Yeah.
Two questions. I looked at the parking, uh, calculations.
They're pretty confusing.
It would appear as though,
if you look at it from a layman's standpoint,
that there's not gonna be enough parking.
So it's, it lists 10 apartments.
So in total there are 23 apartments.
Uh, three of them will be on the first floor
alongside the medical offices.
Those will be accessible, um, to people who have, uh,
trouble with mobility.
Uh, the next two stories on this structure will have 10
apartments each, so 23 apartments in total.
So it'd be maybe be more general in my question.
So there, there's gonna be enough parking spaces.
And so if you have 23
or whatever, uh, residential area, living spaces
and two cars per space, then you add, uh,
medical facil.
You see where I'm going? Mm-hmm.
If you read the back, if you read the back, it's got two
or three different ways to calculate it.
So you're, I'm, I guess I'm asking,
is there gonna be adequate parking?
Yes. So the TPA district is going
to be constructing a public parking space right across the
street, behind, uh, the old Louis Bar site.
There will be a public lot there.
Um, there's also space at the library,
which can be used during the day.
Uh, so we are asking to waive some
of the parking requirements, uh, to allow
for more flexible parking
and kind of encourage more walking in that area.
So at the end of the day, who owns this?
The parking lot behind the structure will be owned
by the My Health Clinic. I meant
Building the building itself on a TFA
Property. Yeah, that will
be, so that will be the, my Health Clinic.
Uh, I believe the LLC is 3,200 Mound, LLC.
So funding wise is my last question then. Mm-hmm.
So you have a grant and 1.8 million you said? Yes, sir.
So what happens if,
'cause a lot of projects I've been involved in have overrun.
So what happens if it costs more than $1.8 million?
Who's on the hook for the money?
So it is a flexible grant in terms of
what they were allowing, I believe at first it was 1.6,
but now it's gone up to 1.8.
If there is more gap that needs to be financed,
I believe it can go up to close
to 2 million, if not 2 million.
Um, but ultimately, uh,
the city will not be responsible
for paying any overages or anything like that.
Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Rutz,
I've got quite a few questions.
How many parking? I'm, I'm having a hard time
'cause I like this print is really small on here.
How many parking spaces are on site?
Gimme just a moment.
There appear to be 29 parking spaces.
Um, from what I, or 31. My apologies
For how many apartments?
36. My apologies. I also don't have the greatest eyes
That's on site.
Yes, sir. Okay.
Um, I have a few problems.
Number one, attending as many meetings
as I have, I'm wondering
where our economic development coordinator is.
He should be here representing this project.
I'm the economic development representative.
As of right now, I'm the only member
of the economic development staff.
Okay. Alright. Fair enough. So, here's my problem.
I'm very familiar with the property.
I have a, I have a big problem saying
that there's parking at the library
because the library needs their parking.
We don't need people over there
parking for the health clinic.
This property needs to be able to, to hold its own.
And I also have a problem saying that I know
what you're talking about behind the old Louis bar,
but I have a problem with people having to cross the street
to get to their house, to their apartment.
I mean, that just doesn't seem, doesn't seem right.
Um, and I assume the doctor's gonna appre is going
to fund all the money except for what he's getting.
Yes. We've, uh, transferred the application status
over to the doctor.
Um, we've worked alongside them
to get them through the process.
Uh, they purchased the land from tfa
and it will be deeded over to them soon.
Okay. Um, so continuing on with,
with the situation, I think it's overbuilding the property.
I, listen, I welcome the development itself that I get it.
But I think you're over, I think you're trying
to overbuild the property there
and to build on three sides right.
On the property line. I just think that's a horrible idea.
It's a horrible idea.
It is in alignment with the master plan as well
as the corridor plan and the implementation plan.
It suggests, uh, almost an exact building.
This is really a model for what is suggested in those plans.
I, I understand that, but I'm in,
I'm in disagreement with that.
So, um, I'll probably be a no vote on this just
because of the size of the,
of it going on the size of property.
So, thank you,
Mr. Chair.
Yes, Mr. Lindsey. Um, I think I echo a lot of
what my counterpart's saying here.
It seems like we, we have residents
that aren't gonna have anywhere to park their cars.
What if they wanted to have a guest?
Where are they gonna park? Um, I agree.
I think it, it's really starting to overbuild, um, you know,
having the medical clinic in there as well.
Just seems like we're trying to do a little bit too much
with the space that we have.
I wanna support, um, south Warren development.
I work down there. We,
we need whatever we can get down there, we,
but this to me is not a, a good design.
Uh, I also disagree
with it being right on the property line.
That's not what I wanna see, uh, in the city.
Um, even though that might, you know, be the city's idea of
what they're looking for, uh,
right now it's on the zoning board, um, for decision.
So I'm gonna be voting no on this, unfortunately.
I would also like to remind you,
there will be parking installed across the street as well
as across the entire TFA district. Uh,
You mentioned that to that.
I appreciate it. Um, but that was already mentioned. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Chair. Yes. Mr. Jersey. Um,
So the petitioner, um, do you,
do you have a shared parking agreement with the,
the library at all?
Or any kinda agreement?
That would just be during the day
that the across the street parking
would have such an agreement.
Something like this drawn up, uh, as it's being intended
to help supplement this.
That is really the purpose of this.
And, and, you know, I, I can appreciate the, the fact
that, um, you know, the building matches the master plan.
I really, I, I really can.
I mean, it, it's, it's very thought out.
But, um, again, the parking situation is kinda,
you know, I'm trying to wrap my head around it.
I mean, I, you know, I can, I can,
I I can see where you're going with it.
But having people cross a, a busy road to try,
especially at night
and things of that nature, I think becomes a hazard.
There's also been a crosswalk installed right at the fire
station, which is right across from that. That's true.
That's True. A big safety, that's true Precaution
that we've taken to ensure
that there is safe crossing at this area.
Um, the one thing that, I mean, I, I think the,
the plan is, is good, except for the amount of apartments.
That's the only thing I have a, a problem with.
I I think it's an overstretch for the amount of apartments.
I mean, if we, if we scale that down 12 apartments, I mean,
I think I could really get behind it,
but I just really think we're trying to pack 10 pounds
of stuff into a five pound bag.
So it's just, um,
and again, I could appreciate the thoughtfulness of going
through all this and having it right to the t
of the master plan and kudos for that.
Um, but the parking
and just the, the amount of residential apartments is,
is something I have a problem
with in regards to the parking.
If the parking, I think if we scaled that down, parking
probably wouldn't be an issue, you know?
So that, that's my take on it. I'll yield the floor.
Yeah. I just wanted to add my,
my comments in the following.
'cause if this building was a slightly different building,
I would not even have problems with it.
Going to the property line, if,
let's say the entire first floor was, I just say retail
or some kind of tenant like that, I look at this drawing
and the three residential units on the ground floor,
basically the only windows they have face Van D**e,
and they'd be right on the sidewalk.
It's like, I I, I'd love to know how,
how somebody would wanna have an apartment
where if you have your drapes open,
everybody walking down the sidewalk will be able
to look straight into your living quarters.
Now, you know, I've seen many mixed use buildings,
whether it's in cities like Royal Oak
and others, they always have like retail
or restaurant space along the first floor.
And any residential is second floor and higher.
Or the buildings that have residential on the first floor
are actually set back farther from the sidewalk
and have some green space.
So that, that's where I look at it
and I'm like, I question, um, the zero, uh,
feet from the, from the lot line there.
And also the concerns about parking,
because parking across the street is not something
that I could just picture.
All those people are just gonna be parking in front
of the neighbor's houses all the
way up and down Continental.
Um, that's my comments. Mr. Chairman? Yes. Mr. Cliff,
Sir, how come, how come we didn't get a visual of
what this thing's gonna look like when it was completed?
I, I, I, I think what we're lacking here is some
vision to be able to see what it is
that you guys are trying to convey.
Um, it's hard for me
to visualize a three story building from, from plans.
Um, I kind of like the concept.
Uh, I understand where it relates to, um, some
of the other entities you mentioned earlier
and with our master plan.
But I think what we're missing out on here is a big selling
point when it comes to a visual so that we can actually see,
um, what this was gonna render out to look like.
I think it might have, I think it might have
greatly benefited your presentation.
Had that been included in here?
Is there a reason why we didn't have one?
Do you have one? We
Do have a rendering.
Uh, I didn't know that
that should have been included, so I do apologize.
I can certainly, uh, have that sent out to each
of you if you would like, uh, this incorporates some of the
corridor plans, uh, future ideas,
where in the bike lanes there will be, uh, added a curb
that has some green space on it, medians in the middle
of the road that have trees and this kind of stuff.
That kind of makes it a lot easier on the eyes when you're
looking out your front window. So,
Right. And that, and that's
my, that's the root to my point.
Exactly. Also, it probably wouldn't have hurt
to look at some of our ordinances
and change some of that around for some redistricting or,
or redoing some zoning when it comes to these kind
of projects to make it easier, uh,
for, for the projects to move forward without having to come
through what I consider to be a relatively archaic process
for new and modern ideas.
And with that, I'll yield the floor.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes,
Mr. Watts. I,
I just wanna add one thing. He
said there was a crosswalk and a light there.
The light was put up to handle the emergency
vehicles outta the new fire station.
I don't think it was meant to be for
tra uh, pedestrian traffic.
So I believe it just, yeah, I, I don't know,
but that, I know that's why it was put up.
So
I believe that there is a button that you can press
that will halt the traffic,
but I'm not a hundred percent certain on that.
Okay. Any other questions?
Uh, discussion, comments, motions.
I just want to chime in that I'd feel a whole lot better
about it if I could see it.
I, I don't feel I'm in a position
where I can support it based on the information
that was presented to me here tonight.
So
Would we want to ask the petitioner
to see if we could reschedule this to our next meeting
so they could provide drawings or renderings
or, well, I can't speak for the rest
of the board. I know, that's fine. I know it would
Help me an awful lot. Mr. Chair?
Yes, Mr. Green. There seems to be a
Lot more issues than just, there seems
to be a lot more issues than just
that a rendering would solve.
I, I don't know if what the right direction is,
but a rendering is not gonna solve the parking issue.
Mm-hmm. If we see a picture of it.
So I don't know if postponing it
or rescheduling it would make much
of a difference at this particular point,
Unless the petitioner wanted to take it back to discuss.
He's heard there are concerns regarding parking.
Uh, because I,
I wonder if he, if he'd want to go back
and say, look, there's a lot
of issues from the board in terms of waiving the amount
of parking that they're asking for and such,
and maybe revise the plan or, so, Mr.
Chair. Yes, Mr. Rutts,
Is there a time limit on this grant?
Uh, I believe by the end of the next year,
money has to be dispersed.
So that just means that construction has to be started,
uh, by the end of next year.
The end of 26? Yes. All right.
I I am, I'm in agreement too.
There's too many questions here that need to be answered.
And I think a rendering, even though I go down there
two or three times a week, I think a rendering might help me
see what that's gonna look like.
I also have concern about the parking.
I just, I have a huge problem saying that we're gonna park,
let people park at the library.
That's not a public parking lot, so to speak.
That's for the patrons there.
Um, now I'm concerned about them, people trying
to be parking in the fire hall.
I know they got gates, but I'm concerned about
that being a problem for the fire station now.
And especially with people.
If we're gonna park people across the street,
that's gonna be another problem.
And that station is very busy.
Um, uh, there's too many questions to be answered.
I, I, I guess I would be willing to postpone if we can get
more information to help us understand what's going on here.
'cause this, it's a big project.
I don't want the city to lose a project.
Um, I certainly want, you know, band d**e to be developed,
but there's too many unanswered
questions of what's gonna go on.
So that would, that's where I stand is
Mr. Chair,
uh, one moment. Mr. Lindsay. Steve, did you have, uh,
My suggestions from the concerns?
I heard, if you postpone it,
don't do it till the next meeting
to give them time to look at it.
So you might want to do a postponement indefinitely so
that it'd be reposted so that anything was reconsidered.
Would them be Reno?
Okay. Thank you, Steve. Mr. Lindsay,
you had a comment? Yes.
Thank you. Um, I'm totally in favor of, of postponing it.
Um, you know, my thoughts on this right now, uh,
a visual rendering is helpful.
That alone's not going to change my decision
as it stands tonight.
Um, I'm totally comfortable coming back with a new plan,
but I think what, what I need
to sway my vote into being in favor of this is,
I think right now my concerns are definitely gonna be,
there's, there's too much packed on this one, one size lot.
Um, so I, I have to see a reduction, um,
in addition to more parking.
Uh, I'm not a big fan of having the,
the properties right along the property line.
Um, if other things change,
I'm a little bit more comfortable with,
with what's going on, that might not be a sticking point.
But I want you to at least to know where I'm at tonight, uh,
and how I'm leaning towards voting.
Uh, I don't wanna see the city lose this project either.
I just think right now the way it is, it's, it's too much.
I don't think it's, it's good the way it is.
Um, so if we postpone, I'm, I'm in favor of that.
Okay. So to Mr. Chair? Yes. Yes, Mr. Ser.
Well, based on what I'm hearing,
then I'd like to make a motion then.
Please. I'd like to make a motion
to postpone indefinitely. Definitely
Support.
Okay. We have a motion
and support to postpone this item indefinitely
to give you a chance that you can,
you've heard our concerns, so that it will,
that way you can go gather whatever rendering, maybe try
to address the parking concerns
and be able, so when you come back,
if there might be some revisions or, so, then
I'd like to see renderings of the parking situation too,
like across the street, if you could provide that as well.
Not just the site, you know, on site, actual site plan.
So, okay.
So let's take a vote on the motion.
Uh, do, do need to do roll call. We could just do a yes, no.
Is everybody in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed?
Opposed? They're opposed? Yes. Okay. So seven in favor.
One opposed, but the item is postponed,
so when you gather the information,
you can get back on the agenda and we'll go from there.
Thank you for your time this evening. Okay. Thank you.
It takes us to, okay, item number nine was to take it off.
It takes us to item number 10.
Item 10, applicant Mohammed for Mohammed Al.
Representative Al Al.
Common description, 2 8 7 0, 14 mile
branches requested permission to one,
allow a community center on a property line on a property
with a 98.2 foot lot width.
Two, allow a community center
and an existing building with a 24.6 foot front setback.
Three, allow a community center, an existing building
with 11.2 foot setback to the west side property line,
and 8.5 feet setback
to the east side property line. And I apologize
If I got your name wrong.
Good evening, gentlemen. Good evening, lady. Okay.
My name is Uni and I'm here, uh, to represent the, um,
community center members.
Uh, I hope you give us grant in this,
uh, variances.
They're minor, you know, variances.
This is an existing building.
Uh, the, uh, property will be completely improved.
Resurfacing the parking lot,
raise the screening wall to the residential on the side
and in the back as well.
And, um, so I'm here to answer any questions if you have,
I think everything's clear.
Okay. Uh, thank you for that presentation. Mm-hmm.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Are there any members of the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Anybody who wants to speak, please approach the podium.
And if everybody could just start with your name
and address for the record, and then your comments.
Hi, my name is Peter Warwick.
I'm the property owner adjacent to the, uh, uh,
representative here.
The address is 2 8 3 0 to 2 8 6 0 14 mile Road.
Uh, it's a four unit commercial building.
Uh, two the units, uh, one is a coffee shop,
one is a barber shop.
Uh, the other two units was a, uh,
at the grocery store, which has recently vacated.
We do share a common driveway to enter in
between the two buildings.
And, uh, the parking lot is split basically
by the driveway with the parking on one side,
behind one building
and parking on the other side for the other building.
And it previously, the tenant of this, uh,
new purchased property,
which I'm glad somebody purchased the property, uh, uh,
it was a veterinary clinic, so the parking wasn't,
uh, really an issue.
They didn't have that many clients at one time.
My concern is, uh, if there is a community event, uh,
there aren't that many parking spots.
And even before there was some overflow
of parking from one to the other,
but it really wasn't an issue.
Uh, being that it's on 14 mile road,
there's no street parking,
and the side streets are relatively far away.
So my, my concern is the parking,
as it seems like parking is an issue with a lot of, uh,
different developments,
but I think it also depends on the usage.
Uh, so that's, that's just the concern I wanted
to voice. Thank you.
Thank you.
My name is Mark Music 3 2 9 4 2 Dolin Drive.
Um, you know, I have several objections to this project.
Um, the, the first is, you know, like he just said,
the veterinary clinic was a very, uh, low intensity of use.
Um, there are only 24 parking spots, you know,
that fit behind this building.
Uh, it's completely inadequate.
If, uh, if just the people here came
to the, the, uh, center, there wouldn't be enough parking.
And my concern is
that they will overflow onto the side streets
on either side of the building.
Um, you know, I'm only two houses off of 14 mile Road,
and I can just envision cars lined up and down the street
and people walking all up
and down the street coming to and from events.
It is, it is trying to put too much into this space.
It's, it was a building designed for low,
you know, low intensity.
Um, and you know, this is, this is not a community center.
This is a mosque that's being built.
So there's a lot of activity at a mosque,
and that's, you know, that's great,
but you have to have the facilities that support that.
And this is just the wrong, wrong choice of a building
for what they want to do.
And I absolutely am opposed to it. Thank you.
Thank you.
Hi, my name is Dana Tuty. I live at 3 2 9 4 5 Dolin.
I'm opposed to this, um, is,
and the other guy said parking is an issue.
There's only 24 spots the building will have.
Last time we were here, the building sit, uh,
they said it housed 80 people.
That's 27 parking spots. That's not enough parking spots.
Plus you probably would need a garbage dump store
for all those people that would lessen the parking spots.
Also, there, there's a bunch of people here,
and there was about 40 people here last time.
Since this is a community center that's there, the husbands,
the wives, the children, the building holds 80 people.
That would be more than 80 people.
That would be a fire hazard.
All those cars in the parking lot would,
I would be a fire hazard too.
If something happens, an ambulance
or a fire truck couldn't get back there.
Also, with all these cars coming in
and out, like you said, parking on the side streets,
there is a bus stop for, I believe it's junior high
and elementary on Dwin.
And on the other side is
junior high and high school.
And with all the cars coming and out
and all the kids, I mean, who knows what'll happen.
Um, the wall can, is the wall part of this?
Um, the wall does need to be extended up higher, eight feet,
because in my backyard we see
everything that goes on.
We see all the people, we see all the, um,
headlights, everything like that.
Um, the coffee shop, there's always 20,
I would say, to 17 to 20 cars.
Just for the coffee shop that's in there.
The haircuts placed. There's four chairs.
So I believe that each chair
needs two parking spots.
And that doesn't include the workers.
I believe it's just one worker.
And then again, with the parking, it's just a tight spot
and everybody would be all over on the side streets.
I think that's it. Thank you.
Thank you for those comments.
Any other comments from the audience?
Good evening. I'm a wheelchair
person and respected members.
My name is Jahi Islam. I'm a resident of
And what is your address, please? Id,
My, I live in 2 9 0 5 7 Mont Drive, warden Michigan.
Um, I'm a member of American Bangladeshi community
and I do support this community center.
Uh, the reason because the Bangladeshi community people are
growing here, the youth and young
and senior citizens, we do need this, uh, type of place.
And I understand that, uh, the members
are concerned about the parking.
So just I want to emphasize is that the people,
they're not gonna gather all together in the same time.
Like, one family will come, another will go.
So it's not gonna be a busy area,
or it's not gonna be a gathering like every single day.
Maybe here's once in a month or a year.
And of course, um, they are, um, obligated
to follow the rules and regulation.
So I just want to say that it is very much needed
for the community, for the youngsters, for the youth,
and for the senior citizens.
And again, it's not gonna be a gathering like every day.
Like they are concerned about, like, one family will come,
another will leave.
So it should not be a problem.
So I do support this project
and I do respect all of the decision that you, you make.
Thank you.
Thank, thank you for those comments.
Any other comments in the audience? Um,
Good evening.
Uh, my address is 3 2 9 2 4 OQ Drive.
And your name? My name is Antonette Cowan.
My home is adjacent behind the coffee shop barber shop.
Thank you. You wanna be that loud.
Um, a coffee shop and a barber shop.
I find this to be open from the hours of,
let's say nine to five.
What the community center is trying to do,
which we have nowhere around.
We have a weed dispensary.
We have liquor stores on every corner.
This coffee shop holding, let's say 30 parking spots
because I'm not sure how many are there,
but I live right behind it.
There are 20 to 25 cars on the weekend
till two 3:00 AM.
What they're trying to do is open a community center,
A For a different
ethnicity to help
and gather together to help one another, maintain jobs,
education, clothing, to be functional in society.
In the city that we live in.
Our own neighbors have no problem donating.
They're trying to help get established.
I, I don't see why there would be a problem
of a community center being open
versus everything else that's going on.
I'm adjacent right behind both of these buildings.
The traffic that they're saying.
I don't see a hundred people. Do I see people walk?
Could be walking there.
Yes, I definitely could,
but it's something
that's more positive in the community than a negative.
That's all I have to say.
Okay. Thank you for those comments.
Uh, any other comments before I close the public portion?
Not
Good evening, everyone.
Yeah. My name is Zamal Hassan.
I'm from 3 2 0 0 7 Clays Drive, Warren, Michigan.
So I am supporting this community center
because it's, um, not only based on our, um,
it's not only focusing on the community from Bangladeshi
people, but regardless of that, like, no, we gonna try
to help like any, uh, anyone from around the neighborhood.
Like if they're struggling with, uh, let's say, um,
language barriers, um, food or any, any support they need.
So it's that gonna be like a, every people coming to
that place altogether, like
whenever they need, they will come and visit.
They come have their things done, and then they'll leave.
So some of the neighbors I, we heard they're saying like,
there will be a big event, something like that.
It's not gonna be like the same.
So hopefully it's going
to help our community people rather than like
making a huge traffic.
So that's,
that's all I can say about like supporting
our community center.
Thank you. Okay.
Thank you very much. Um,
Hi, my name is Patty Legia
and I live at 3 2 9 3 6 Oak View in Warren.
Um, my property is directly behind, uh, the proposed site.
Um, like my neighbor had said, um, there's a lot
of activity, um, into the wee hours of the morning.
Um, I'm concerned that, um, this will continue
and escalate, um, if the location
is being used after hours.
At the initial meeting, they had said that the, um,
property would open at like 8:00 AM
and maybe be closed by six.
Um, there were concerns at the prior meeting.
Um, what happens if, um,
you had events that were later in the day,
what provisions would be made, et cetera?
Um, I have a big concern again about the parking.
Um, because I live on the next street over, I'm concerned
that, uh, people will be parking there as well.
Um, one of the, um, issues at the last meeting,
they talked about putting up, um, a six
or an eight foot wall.
And from what I understand,
because I'm on the west side of the property
and the other building, um, is a different parcel
that they would only, um, add height to
the east wall
and half of the south wall, leaving my side,
which is the west side with the four foot wall along
with the other.
So only part of the, um,
wall in the parking lot would be higher.
The other, my side would be lower.
And I can see right into the parking lot.
Um, see all the activity going on.
Um, another thing that, um,
was addressed at the last meeting, they posted a picture
of some of the application.
And in the, uh, picture, I have it here on my phone,
it stated right in there that
this was a community center, um, that is for men only.
No women, no women would be allowed into the events.
So that's a concerning factor for me as well.
So I hope you take all of that into consideration.
Thank you.
Okay.
Good evening. My name is Shan Mahmud.
Uh, I live in, um, less than 300 feet from is your address?
Uh, 3 2 9. Two five Wbu Drive. We in Michigan.
And also I am one of the owner, uh, in this building, uh,
at 2 8 7 0 East 14 mile.
And just, I wanna, uh, share something about this building.
Uh, when, uh, we borrowed this building at that time,
we checked everything.
Also, we asked, uh, asked some community members.
They agreed with us.
And also just, uh, one our neighborhood.
She said about the men's.
Uh, last time, uh, in the last time our, our attorney,
he did some mistakes about the men and women.
That's why just, uh, we didn't hire him again.
Uh, this was our, just a small mistake.
That's why just we fix it.
Uh, this is, uh, community center is not only
for the Muslim, because I am of the owner.
That's why I know about that, uh, how we can use that.
Uh, this is the, also, I explained my neighborhoods
and also I collected a lot of signature.
I submitted here, just I'm requesting for, requesting
for review this all signature.
They're, they're also living in very
close from this building.
And they have worked that. So they cannot attend.
And they also supported by signature.
And, uh, also I can promise about this building.
We cannot, uh, uh, any big sounds
or any traffic problems or anything
because of Community Center for all.
Uh, publics is not only for the Muslims, uh, we are trying
for help people, uh, who need foods
or who needs another support or anything.
Because we know that lot of peoples there,
uh, needed support.
Uh, there lot of homeless people
because our lot
of committee member there is helping us about the money.
They said, uh, you can spend for these, uh, homeless people.
That's why just we need, uh, one, uh, space for the weekend.
Just yesterday when I spoke,
whenever one, uh, one neighborhood,
she said, I have lot of clothes.
Uh, I I, I am not finding any place
where I can give this clothes.
Just our main things. This is, uh, not is our members.
Uh, neighborhoods there is complaining against the parking
lot is this parking lot.
We have 2038 parking lots, uh, that all members is, uh,
not coming is at the same time.
So two, three people comes.
When their needed is finished, they will come back.
Then again, other person can come.
This will be continue not is that at the same time lot
of people can come and is will be very big bothering.
That's why I just, uh, I am requesting for uh,
if you approve, this will be very helpful for our community
and for the all community members in our neighborhoods.
And also I am promising again, uh,
we won't bother any neighborhoods
or anybody can, uh, very big noise
or anything. Thank you so much
Everyone. Thank you.
Good evening. My name is Mat.
I'm living the cross street in the
community for two minutes work.
Um, staling height.
My address is 3 3 2 7 0 lintel
called Staling Heights, Michigan.
That community center is, um,
I think is no parking is a problem
because I living cross is two minutes away,
almost 24 hours a day.
I saw in the coffee shop maybe three, four customer
and the barber shop.
This is my barber shop. I go always maybe
five or six customer.
But if you are sleeping, I don't see anything.
I don't see anything, traffic or anything problem
because the committee center only not for Bangladeshi,
the Committee Center for All American, everybody.
K and American Bangladeshi for help for people.
So I was here before last time.
I speak to please this committee center for working for all.
Everybody. That's my concern. Thank you so much.
Okay. Thank you for all those comments. Okay.
Uh, there's an impact statement that needs to be read in.
Sarah, close the public portion
of the meeting, not seeing anyone else.
And re thank
You Mr. Chair. I actually have an
email in,
in the impact statement from the planning department.
I'll read the email first into the record.
Um, this is, um,
from a concerned citizen concerned neighbor from Earl Drive.
We're one of the persons owning property within 300
feet of the property involved.
We are a couple senior citizens who have lived here
for more than 20 years.
We do not allow this center
to be in this location for the following reasons.
One, there will be traffic congestion along 14 mile road
because the entrance going
to the parking lot is only one lane
and narrow, making it very s slow for vehicles
to enter going to the parking lot.
Two, the area of the building is small.
I do not know if it, it can meet the minimum required area
of a community center because it was formally a
small animal hospital.
Three, the surrounding fences are low,
therefore lots of disturbances
of the surrounding homeowners.
Wherever there will be affairs in the center.
Parking lot four, the 98.2
foot lot width, 24.6 foot front setback, 11.2
foot setback to the west property line
and the 8.5 foot setback
to the east side property line should meet the requirements
of for a community center
and approve for proper authorities, building permit,
zoning department, et cetera.
I hope you'll read my email
and concern in the public hearing.
I'm sorry I cannot personally attend
because I'll be taking care of my grandkids.
So the next thing I have is the impact statement
from the planning department.
So after review of the per RM worth of the planning director
of the planning department,
after review of the request, the following issues were found
to impact the budding local or general public one.
It was planning staff's observation
that this property is poorly screened.
A modified green belt consisting of trees such as AEs
and evergreens in addition to the six foot wall,
would provide the best screening.
However, the trees would require a reduction in parking
and confi reconfiguration
of the maneuvering lanes along south
and east property lines.
Two additional questions need to be answered
regarding the total occupancy of the building.
The floor plan indicates a total occupancy load
of 139 occupants.
However they indicate they will not exceed 80 occupants.
The fire marshal's comment question for the site plan is
what assurances will be pla be in place
to ensure the capacity is not more than 80 persons.
This information needs to to be
provided prior to bringing the project back
before the planning commission.
Three. It is the planning staff's perception
that when an event is occurring, that the,
that the parking lot behind the other commercial building
will be used by attendees regulating
where attendees should park, would re would be required
of the owners for a concern of the planning staff.
Is, is the existing building setback
of only eight feet when the side yard
setback should be 20 feet?
Is with the above listed issues
and concerns that the planning staff recommended the request
vari variances be denied.
Thank you for reading those into the record, Mr. Jersey.
Um, so I turn it over to the board for any
of their questions or discussion. Mr.
Chair? Yes, Mr. Watts.
So yesterday I went back
and looked up the planning commission meeting
and I watched the,
I don't know, it was probably an hour and a half.
And I listened to, uh, Mr.
Worse explanation on all
of this stuff plus some other concerns.
And the recommendation was to deny
and I think the concerns are very valid.
There was a lot more residents at the last,
at the planning meeting that spoke
as well about concerns about the neighborhood.
Um, the other thing that came up was
they're saying it's gonna be a community center
and it came out that it was also gonna be used
for religious activities, which, you know,
that could present a problem with how many people are coming
because I know that, you know, the call
to prayer brings a lot of people in as well.
You know, I look at how many, I went over there
and I looked at it and I looked
and I looked at the parking lot.
Um, I mean, I, I have a concern for the, for the gentleman
who owns the commercial next door.
'cause there's not that many parking spaces back there.
And if you have 80 people, let's just say 80 people come in,
two in a car that's 40 cars, that's not gonna work in
that, in that parking lot.
Doesn't make any sense.
Um, and if they go with, uh, the number
that was stated there, that it potentially could be 139,
that presents a bigger problem And I don't think
that the gentleman
that's owns the commercial buildings next door should be
taking, you know, his property being overtaken for parking.
That's not right. Um, I don't, I don't think
that this idea fits the neighborhood.
I think it's gonna be a problem.
There's gonna be too much traffic.
And, um, based on the planning commission's recommendation
for denial, uh, I'm going to be a no vote.
This is not, this is not right.
There's no way this should have made it
to us. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank You. Um, Mr. Lindsay?
Yeah, I actually have a question for the petitioner.
Sorry to make you get back up, sir.
I, Yes, sir.
So just one quick question for you. Sure.
So I'm looking at, at your packet here,
so I just wanna make sure that I understand correctly.
Um, so in your application, were you,
were you aware when you purchased the building that it's
not zoned, uh, for this type of property?
Yeah. Zoned office, Yes. Okay. That,
That's, and when you go through to the zoning
ordinance Yeah.
In the office, it would sent you
to the previous zoning Yeah.
Uh, category and so on. Okay.
Until you get to the community center. Yeah.
Thank you. That answers my question. Mm-hmm.
Um, so to the board, I mean, we,
we got a situation here where the, the owner
of the building purchased the property, uh, knowing
what it was zoned for,
and now we are trying to get a variance to change
the purpose of what this is for.
Um, I heard from the public, um,
it sounds like there's a lot of concern by the,
the residents living in the neighborhood, um,
that this is gonna cause a lot of traffic parking.
Um, so in my opinion, it's,
it's definitely gonna create a detriment to the area.
Um, it seems like it's, it's certainly self-imposed.
Um, there's nothing unique about the property.
Uh, the owner is trying to change the property
for it was intended to do.
Um, and it seems it'd be like a, a for personal
or economic reason as to why they're trying to,
to get this variance.
Uh, I'm not gonna be voting, uh, yes for this, uh,
our criteria says that the applicant has to demonstrate all
of the following to establish
that there's a practical difficulty in order
for the variance to be approved.
I don't see that he's, uh, meeting any of the criteria.
So I, I have to vote on this.
May I say something? O only if there's a question.
Uh, Ms. Mr. Lindsay was just giving his, uh, comments.
He didn't ask any questions.
Any other comments or discussion amongst the board?
Mr. Chairman? Yes. Mr. Cleft?
Mr. Pont, sir, please?
Yes, sir. Just help me out a little bit here. Looking
This way just for you.
I, I'm, I'm over here Now. I know.
So just kind of help me along,
because I kind of dove into this a little bit.
On the ordinance side.
Yes. Oh, office districts.
I'm just going to do some quick recite reading.
It's intended to accommodate those non-residential uses
of an administrative
or professional nature, which are necessary
to the normal conduct of a community's activities.
It is specifically designed,
however, to prohibit the introduction
of commercial establishments of a retail nature
or activities which require the constant visits
of the general public.
And then we go into 13, uh, a 0.01, which is the use.
And I don't see anything about a community center
use outlined in here.
And you need to correct me if I missed it.
I've read it three times, but
that doesn't mean I didn't miss it.
I'm trying to, you want me to just run through 'em?
I, I'm trying to pull up the ordinances. Okay. And, and go
From there. So all per,
all permitted uses in PB
or R one P districts except residential dwellings.
So are community centers allowed in PB
or R one P districts off the top of your head?
They are allowed in the R one A.
So if you go to one of those districts,
it's gonna say what's allowed.
If you go to the R one P,
it's gonna say what's allowed in R one C.
What's allowed in R one C is allowed in R one B.
What's allowed in R one B is allowed in R one A.
So it goes to the five point 11 in the zoning ordinance.
Alright, so I guess I'm just looking for a yes or no.
Is, Is this, is the use that they're looking for
or not the use, I don't want to use that word.
Use, is the, um, activity
with the word community center
fall into the category of any of those.
A community center would be an allowed use in an old
district because of the hierarchy of,
of the way the zones work.
Okay. And that's
where my contradictory nature comes in,
because when it talks about intent
and purpose, that whole thing just seems
to throw it right out the window.
I understand that. But also under that,
there is the sections of five 11 that it must meet in
that regard and that takes it back a little bit
to that intent.
It's just we've had some previous things come
before us that started out innocuous
and relatively innocent on the forefront
that have evolved into problems in the city.
And I don't wanna see that happen here.
And that, and that gives me great pause.
I ha I'm having a hard, I'm having a hard time one way
or the other on this particular proposal.
I don't have a crystal ball,
but I've got some experience with other things that went
before us 10, 15, 20 years ago
that are now rearing their heads with,
with some public outcry.
And I just, and at the base of it, it just doesn't seem,
I'm gonna echo my colleague Mr. Watts sentiment.
It just doesn't seem like it's a good fit
for the neighborhood, for the area there.
And I think it just kind of falls short when it comes
to the expressed intents and purpose of the O District.
The O district on the face of things, when I read through,
it's more of a, it's more of a professional office setting
where there's not a lot of coming
and going where, you know, 10
or 15 people in a building work in an offices.
Maybe you have your occasional visitor here
or there, where A well run
community center is gonna have people constantly in place
and coming and going consistently.
And then if they're performing religious activities
and call the prayer goes out now, now we're overwhelmed
with, with other kinds of issues.
And I just thank you Mr.
Watch, rapon.
I'm, I'm gonna yield the floor.
Thank you.
Any other, other comments or discussion or motions? Mr.
Chairman? Mr. Chair? No, go ahead.
I was prepared to make a motion
unless you have other comments to me.
Go ahead. Okay. Uh, Mr.
Chair, I'd like to make a motion to deny permission to, one,
allow a community center on a property
with a 98.2 foot lot width.
Two, allow a community center in an existing building
with a 24.6 foot front setback.
And three, uh,
allow a community center in an existing building
with an 11.2 foot setback to the west side property line
and an eight 8.5 foot setback to the East property Sideline,
I'm sorry, east side property line.
Uh, due to the fact that it is self-imposed, uh,
the property's not unique.
It is a detriment to the area.
It seems to be personal or economic and it's not necessary
Support.
We have a motion to deny by Mr. Lindsay.
Support by Mr. Watts.
I heard first or Mr. Perry first support by Mr. Perry, uh,
for the reason stated in a motion.
So it will be a yes. Vote to deny roll
Call Mr. Lindsay? Yes. To
Deny Mr. Perry
Yes. To deny
Mr. Assessor?
Yes. To deny Mr. Cliff?
Yes. To deny Mr. Green?
Yes. To deny Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the, uh, to deny for the reasons stated
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
To deny
for the reasons stated in the motion. Chairman Stevi,
I will also vote yes to deny.
So unfortunately your request was not passed today.
I think that's item number 11.
Item 11, applicant Kamal Noah,
representative Kareem Yusef.
Common description, 5 6 5 0 10 mile variance has requested
permission to one, allow a collision,
collision shop two within 163 feet
of a residential zoning district to two.
We have two required parking spaces.
Good evening everybody. So we are, hi.
We're here just to, uh, request for two versions and
Your names and address.
My name is Kareem Sef.
I live in Troy, Michigan,
1441 Leave Green Drive, Troy, Michigan.
4 8 0 8 3.
Mm-hmm. My name is Kamal.
Nona my address?
Yeah, he is the owner of the
Property. I'm the owner of the
property. Mm-hmm.
And 5 6 5 5 6 5 0 10 mile. Warren, Michigan.
Okay. And that take us through your request?
Yeah, so our request is to, uh, we have two, uh, Varis.
So one of them is to, uh, approve that, uh, the
location is 163, uh, feet away from the residential area.
And, uh, to remove two parking spots from our, uh,
existing parking lot, uh,
to improve our work going further and further.
Okay. Okay. Uh, thank you for that information.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Not seeing any or close the public portion of the meeting.
And, uh, there's an impact statement. Mr.
Jersey, if you could read into the
Record. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Um, per raworth
of the planning director of the planning department, um,
after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local
or general public, the petitioner received a site plan
approval for a 30 foot by 30 foot building addition
to the collision shop on August 11th, 2025.
Thank you. So I turn this matter over to the board
for their questions and discussion, Mr.
Chair? Yes. Mr. Jersey.
So real quick, um,
so, you know, going back to the petitioner real quick.
How long have you owned the property?
Uh, how many years? We owned the property. Sorry.
How long have you been there?
How long have you owned the property? Uh,
From two 2004.
So 2020 2004, three years. Gotcha.
So, so basically I'm, I'm looking,
I'm looking at all the enforcement on your property
and I mean from snow removal to, I mean
to this, that, and the other thing.
So me personally, I'm gonna get outta my soapbox
'cause I got the floor.
I'm personally against any more auto repair
shops in this, in this town.
I feel like it's saturated. There's one every 30 feet.
There's, there's, there's, there's so many
auto repair shops in this town.
Like there were bars in Hamtramck in the eighties.
So I, that being said, with all the enforcement,
I would kind of recommend that you take, take care
of your property and be a better neighbor.
But with all that being said, I really find no reason
to deny this because, you know,
to allow collision, we,
we have collision shops that are closer.
You know, if I go back to go back to the nuts
and bolts of this, we have collision shops
that are button residential areas.
I mean, we have, you know, all over this town, um,
that have been granted, you know, um,
prior to me being on the board.
Um, but it's, to me, I,
I can't find a really good reason to
not grant you your variance.
Um, with all that being said, um, I would just like
to reiterate, try to be a good neighbor.
Try to take care of your property the best you can.
Um, we have a lot of auto repair shops there, just going
to muck, um, just with just cars upon cars,
upon cars on the property that infinitely stay there
for parts and things of that nature.
I'm not, I'm just painting a picture of
what goes on in this town.
I just don't wanna see that on the property.
But I personally can't see any reason to,
um, to, to deny it.
I mean, so, but I appreciate you at least listening
to my rant and, um, and things of that nature.
But, um, to me, I think we've granted things that are, um,
a lot closer and a little bit crazier in nature.
So I'll yield the floor on that.
Mr. Chair. Uh, yes, Mr. Watts.
So my question to the petitioner,
you've been there 20 years, correct?
Right. It's been a collision shop all that time.
Yes, sir. Um,
are we looking to expand?
Uh, as you know, I mean,
those days delivery has been late, so we're trying
to expand, so to keep our spare parts in the area
and also, uh, that allowing our customer
to keep their vehicles for a long time.
So, I mean, we're trying to make, to improve our work.
So you are expense, you're adding onto the property?
Yes, sir. On the building? Yes, sir. Um,
I, I I mean I too have a problem with, I look at all
of the complaints there
and the one that concerned me,
the really concerned me was the over spray on the other on
people's cars to another piece
of pop per another piece of property.
Um, so
I um, guess one question to Mr.
Wa. Point, Roger Pond.
I looked at the building department records online
and I was kind of confused.
Are this had an occupancy permit, correct?
Uh, yes, the original does. Okay.
I wanted to make sure of that 'cause I was confused
'cause I seen a couple that were canceled and I wa
and that's where I got confused
because I wasn't sure if one finally got approved or not.
I will verify that,
but I believe I was an inspector on that.
Okay. And I'm not, not a hundred percent sure,
but I believe it was, um,
Your word's good. Thank you. But
It's a guess, so. Okay.
Don't walk away, Mr.
Mr. Watson isn't done yet though.
I'm, I'm all set. Thank you.
No, I have a question.
So since there's been a collision shop operating is the
reason that it needs the variance is
because the addition is what is now too close
Expanding and nonconforming use.
Okay. And, and it's,
I believe I didn't look at the plans closely,
but I believe it's getting closer
to the residential area with the addition.
Okay. That, that's how I just wanted to verify.
'cause that's how I understood when I looked at this.
And so if, okay.
Yeah. Okay. Yes.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Sir. Nobody
else has anything else to say.
Uh, they'd like to make a motion, like to make a motion
to grant the petitioner's request to allow a collision shop
to within 163 feet of a residential zoning district
to wave two require parking spaces.
Due to the fact the size of shape of a lot,
it's not a detriment to the area.
Support. We have a motion by Mr. Jersey. Support by Mr.
Assessor to approve the request
for reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. For reason stated in
the motion. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion,
Uh, Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reasonated in the motion. Mr.
Cliff? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? No.
Mr. Watts? No.
I think it's getting too close to the residential dwellings.
Mr. Lindsay? No, I think
It's detriment to the area.
And Chairman Stu? I vote yes for reason.
State of motion. It's granted, it's granted your,
uh, request has been granted not Yes, approved.
Please be mindful of the neighbors.
That's all we ask. Thank you. Thank you sir.
Thank you. This is item 12.
Item 12. Applicant Justin Kalo,
representative Michael Baydoon.
Common description. 5 6 4 9 8 mile
variances requested permission
to one construct a new building, 11 feet from the,
the center of the alley to the north side of property.
Two. Construct a new building to the west property.
Line three, allow parking
and maneuvering lanes to the east property
line along Syracuse.
Four. Allow parking maneuvering lanes
to the front property line along eight mile five.
Wave both the required eight foot wide green belt
and six foot high concrete wall.
Good evening, Michael Badone.
4 3 2 0 Pratt Road in Arbor, Michigan. 4 8 1 0 3.
How you doing? Justin Callo?
5 7 1 7 0 Star Creek Court, Washington Township, Michigan.
If you could just take us through your request. Yeah.
Yes. Well what we actually have is an existing building.
It's about a 10,000 square feet building
and it used to be a steel fabrication.
We are actually downsizing the rear sep deck
or the rear of the building.
It's, we are not actually changing the SEP deck.
I understand it's nonconforming,
but we're not actually changing that.
So we're shrinking the building from 10,000
to actually 5,000 square feet.
And, uh, we are asking,
since the existing building right now,
it's right on the property line of Syracuse.
We're cutting that, building out that part
of the building out to accommodate for more parking,
more landscaping.
I tried to compensate for some of the landscaping as far
as the square footage just to make sure that this site
can accommodate all the parking
and they can have better maneuvering
and even better than what it is right now.
And also we are, we planted some,
we did some landscaping on the front,
which it wasn't required.
And we did. I love trees. I love shrubs.
So that's why we put in lot of, lots
of landscaping in this one here,
even including some interior islands.
Uh, on top of all that, it was recommended
by planning since we had,
I'm not sure if you actually saw the
elevation of the property.
I don't think I submitted it on this one here,
but it's like the state of the art building.
We need to, we right now it's an eyesore
and we need to modify that.
And if we Modify that and make it look beautiful
and all that kind of stuff, it'll, it'll beautify that part
of, uh, of eight mile.
So I'm not sure if you can see this, it's all stone, brick
and all that kind of stuff as far as the shopping center.
And the recommendation actually from planning is, uh,
to do the same thing through
the party store right next door.
Right now the party store is outdated just with blocks.
We're actually willing to spend the money
and make sure it looks like one hell of a strip
of a shop and center right there.
And, uh, I do have one more thing here
as far as the brick wall.
I do believe it's actually,
it's on the plans since the building is uh,
is about 119 feet in the back.
We have a six foot, I don't know why everyone is missing it.
A brick wall actually right on the alley side
behind, behind the dumpster.
So that wall is actually getting provided.
And, uh, just wanted to say one more thing actually.
We already got approved also from Mdot as far
as changing the maneuvering lane
and the entrances and all that.
Okay. Was there anything else you wanted
to add on or you're
I'm open for any questions.
Okay. So this is a public hearing.
Is there anybody in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
If you could just let this resident have the microphone.
My name is Althea Benjamin.
My mother owns 2 0 7 4 2 black Mars.
It sits adjacent or behind the liquor store.
And I do want to say to the board that, um, Mr.
Justin has done everything he said he was going to do.
Um, the paper is being picked up
and also he closed the side of
the alley on my, and that's touching my property.
He closed the alley so I don't have
as much traffic coming in.
And the other side, it already had a gate at the bottom,
but Justin didn't know that.
So when we left the meeting the last time I was here,
I showed him that there was a gate
on Syracuse and he closed it.
So my concerns are being met.
So that's what I want to tell y'all.
Thank you for those comments. Uh, seeing no other, oh,
I support Seeing no other members in the audience.
Our close the public portion,
we have an impact statement to read into record.
Yes. One last one, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Um, so per worth, the planning director
of the planning department, after review of the request,
no issues were found to impact the
budding local or general public.
The petitioner received site plan approval
for a new retail center on July 28th, 2025 for concerns
regarding the requested variance
to the eight foot green belt
or six foot concrete wall along
the north property line of six foot high wooden fence,
four foot high chain link fence
and some metal paneling exists along the north edge
of the 20 foot wide alley.
There are also some mature trees located along the rear
property lines of the dwellings.
Thank you. Um, so I turn it over to the board
for any que questions or discussions. Mr.
Chair, real quick? Yes, Mr. To the petitioner. Good.
Good evening, sir. Good evening.
Um, thank you for waiting through the,
through the meeting to, to the end.
Um, th this is, you know, I drove by the property.
Um, um, this is a great pro.
This is a great project in my opinion.
Um, I think it's, it's a very good, good, good use.
Um, the one thing that just kind of, I can kind of walk me
through this, um, rechanging of the driveway.
'cause the one thing I would like to see, you know,
that the liquor store doesn't have
and that the current property just purchased it.
Am I safe to assume you own both properties?
Correct? I think I read that in the backup. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So the one thing that's not consistent with, um,
eight mile and if you look east
and west of your property,
there's a green belt, so there's grass.
The one thing I would like to see,
the one thing I I would like to see between the, you know,
sidewalk and, and eight mile is just a strip of grass.
I mean, 'cause the one thing that I could see happening,
and I've seen it on a Google Earth image, there's a,
a mustang that's parked underneath the,
the, the liquor store sign.
If, if you get enough business,
I just don't want people parking thinking it's a cement slab
to park that close to eight mile.
If you follow what I'm saying.
I agree with you. I actually, I want to Google before,
and I saw one car actually parking right
There. Right. So
like either side, it just
continues the strip right down eight mile
and with, with this grave of a project, I'd hate
to see it kind of fall short with, um,
with not having some green, you know, if we're gonna redo
that whole property, let's, let's do it right
to the TI mean, I don't have a problem waving, waving the,
the wall or any of the other requests that you,
that you've submitted, but I would like to try
to maybe see some kind of grass there for, you know,
and, and don't let it die.
Leave the, it stays green too. So
Only if I'm done doesn't have any objection for it,
I will actually will take it out to put up grass
and we'll also plant some trees.
I have, we have no problem with that.
Sounds great. Sounds great.
So I'll yield the floor if anybody else has anything to say.
Mr. Roger Brown, were you approaching
'cause you had something to add?
Yes, I agree with that concept.
However, it will create a maneuvering lane
that doesn't fall under the ordinance.
So they'll have to add another variance
onto it and go from there.
So it may have to go back to planning first with
that rendering, if that's the plan.
I know it says one way there now.
Um, it, he may be able to get it in without
that because of the one way.
Uh, but it's gotta be reviewed by planning before that.
Gotcha. So
That makes sense.
I i, if you prove it, it may still come back,
is all I want you to know is the reasons why.
Okay, thanks. That make sense
Mr. Chair?
Yes, Mr. Lindsay, I just have one quick
question for the petitioner.
Will This set,
I'm sorry, can we, are you talking like about just in
front of the party store
or along the entire front of eight mile?
I mean for, I mean currently with the,
with the current project, I can't really go with what you,
you have with the liquor store, you know,
'cause we're dealing with the, the current property,
you know, at 5 5 6, 4 9.
So in front of 5, 6, 4 9, I would like to see some grass.
I I mean, I know that if you change something at the liquor
store, like Mr. Wet said you Yeah,
It's the liquor store that could cause the problem.
Correct. So we're just right here
and now let's focus on this project
and you can do a deep dive into the liquor store
later on down the road.
But that's, that's
what I would like to see on that property.
But I mean, very nice, very nicely done gentlemen.
And um, thank you for investing. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll yield the floor question. Okay.
I yield.
So my, my question to the petitioner, um,
and if, if you mention it
and I miss it, I, I really do apologize first
to say I I really have no issues here.
Um, this is more just
so I fully understand what's happening.
So you said you have a 10,000 square foot building now
and you guys are tearing that completely down reconstructing
to a 5,000 square foot building.
We would rather do that if we're going to have a problem
with the variance in the back
because the footing already exists on the wall already
exists, but we would rather tear the whole thing
down and start from
Okay. And that, that's what, that's
your plan right?
Is to take down the 10,000 and build the new building
Half the size? Yeah. Once we, the one
foot wall or 16 foot wall, the size
of the footing structurally may not be enough Okay.
To support that. And right now the building actually
building supports basically on the steel.
Yeah. So I do believe that foundation needs to be changed.
Yes. And then what, what are you guys putting in there?
You said shopping center. So is it gonna be just one
store that goes in there or? We
Actually we're gonna leave it open. More
likely it's going to be some kind of a retail,
So. Okay,
so you guys don't have a tenant,
you're just building the building
so you can get a tenant in there?
Correct. Okay. So no clue to as to who might move in?
Not yet. Okay. And that's totally fine.
That, that doesn't weigh my decision at all.
Um, I agree with, uh, Mr. Jersey.
You guys are gonna do a wonderful project.
Why are you waiving the green belt?
I love landscape. Why are
We, yeah, why are you requesting
to, to wave the green belt?
I, I would like to see landscaping on a
brand new project like this.
I actually, I just
because of the setbacks right here, right now,
we're bringing the building down to 5,000 square feet
and it will not be even feasible to even make it smaller.
So just to comply with the set,
with the parking requirement, 20 feet for parking,
20 feet behind it.
So that's one of the reasons we can actually plant trees
on the side of Syracuse.
But I tried to compensate for the square for it by creating
a big corner right here on Syracuse with more shrubs
and trees and also another island right here.
So that will compensate for the same square footage.
And I added more landscaping actually on the front
green belt on the front.
It be here for residence. According the alleys
For the alley. I mean, there
is nothing we can do.
We have the building right there.
You vacated this, right? Correct.
Be the center line of that is where we have to go. That's
The landscaping, The green belt and or
And, and the 11 feet in the back right there.
Mr. Wock, could you clarify for me where the Yep.
The green green belt supposed to be and where the
Request the wave is, the belt has
to separate is a separation
where there is residential property.
So that would be, they vacated the alley.
So it'd be down the center of the alley now is
where his property line is
and that's where the six foot wall and
or the green belt would have to go, is along
that back portion. Okay.
Okay. I I, I know what you're saying about green area
and everything else and planning is all for that
as well, but that's not part
Of the require. So this is
more to have a, a barrier
between any residentials.
Yes. Okay. So, so why are we, why do we wanna waive that?
Help me get on board with that.
Well, we've actually been talking to the neighbor
and actually and put on the wall in their property
and they do agree to it so
that way we can leave an alley in case
for maintenance or anything like that.
Even it's vacated. I mean, we have no problem
building up the wall right there
or doing the turn our half of our alley into landscaping.
Like I said, I love landscaping. Yeah. Okay.
But, uh, the residents behind us,
they were asking us if it's possible
to build up a wall on their own property just
for their own safety and security and things like that.
We can do either or.
Okay. Well that answers my question.
Um, I guess, you know, comments to the board.
I'm not gonna let that stand in the way, uh, of
how I vote on this, but I just,
I don't know why we need to get rid of
that. It doesn't, there's
Also utilities that run back there.
Okay. So, so we're thinking that the wall
or the bushes get in the way.
Yeah. Okay. I'm, I'm on board with that.
I, I just really didn't understand.
Thank you for clarifying Mr.
Chair. Okay. Yes, Mr. Watts.
So I have a question. When did the alley get vacated?
Do we know?
I, I tried to go to zoning to find out,
but I couldn't get data information
Zoning when it had that information.
Yeah, I know, huh. If it helps,
it was vacated when I lived on Syracuse
back in the mid nineties.
It was already vacated.
Hmm. I, I believe it may have been vacated
and never closed off
or anything except for one side had partial closing.
That would be my only concern is if it
was officially vacated.
Um,
It's on the plans and I don't think planning,
setting anything about it.
They do that research.
Okay. Planning actually said we can either find
something from council, which we couldn't find
and they couldn't find, but they said if we can actually
have an official surveyor somehow we had an official
surveyor that did the boundary
and they are the one who actually put vacated on that.
But council have no records of it.
But they said, oh, on the title,
we do have a title we're closed on the vacated alley.
I'm remember that gate. I'm remembering
that gate there a long time.
I mean Officer Syracuse into that alley.
I, I don't doubt that I grew up in the area
and I know there's always been an alleyway all the way down
and I was just concerned that when did it get vacated
and uh, you know,
They couldn't give me that information.
But to say if the title company actually closed down,
they wanted it to see that I sent it to them. It says
Vacated. Okay. Fair enough.
Okay. Thank you
Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr.
Jersey. Mr.
Chair, if nobody else has anything else
to say, I'd like to make a motion.
I'd like to make a motion to grant the petition
as permission to one, construct a new building,
11 feet from the center of the alley on the north side
of property to construct a new building
to the west property.
Line three. Allow parking
and maneuvering lanes to the east
property line along Syracuse.
Four. Allow parking and maneuvering lanes
to the front property line along eight mile five wave both
the required eight foot wide green belt
and six foot high concrete wall due the effect size
and shape at a lot and it's not a detriment to the area
Support.
So we have a motion by Mr. Jersey.
Support by Mr. Lindsay to approve the request
for the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Jersey votes Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr. Lindsay?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the
Motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reason stated in the
Motion. Mr. Green? Yes.
For the reason stated in the Motion. Mr. Clifft,
It's gonna be a great project.
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the rein stated in the motion
And chairman of Stevi? Uh,
Yes. For reason stated in
motion.
Your request is approved. Thank you so much.
Good luck gentlemen. Takes this to item 13.
New business. Any new business, Mr. Chairman? Mr.
Chairman, Mr. Watts and Mr. Cliff.
So last meeting we had a lot
of discussion about moving the meetings to seven o'clock
and it was yanked off the floor before we took a vote.
Um, I think to be uniform with the rest of the boards
and commissions that meet in the evening.
That seven o'clock is a reasonable thing to do
and I'll make a motion to move the meeting
to seven o'clock and take a vote.
Support to have a motion.
And was that support of, uh, Mr. Green?
So we have a motion and support. So take a vote.
Support Mr. Green support. Oh, okay. We can.
So, alright. Mr. Watts? Yes.
Mr. Green? Yes. Mr. Clifft? Nope.
Mr. Assessor?
Yes. Mr. Perry?
Yes. Mr. Lindsey?
I can't believe you guys did this to me. No.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. Chairman Auvi,
I vote no.
But the motion passed. Uh, five to three to three
Favor.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is what, when would
that be starting?
It would have to start the first of the year.
'cause the calendar's already printed for this year.
Okay. It'd be effective in January.
First meeting in January. Okay.
Mr. Cliff, you had an item you wanted to bring up? Yeah,
We did elections. Last
meeting. Also, we failed to appoint our representative
to the, uh, council of Commissions.
Just wanted to point that out.
It did such a wonderful job.
As much as I'd like to, I cannot
accept that responsibility.
I'm a little stretched thin as it is.
I'd like to make a motion to nominate Mr.
Assessor to the coun, the Council of Commissions.
I'll support that. Support. Does Mr.
Assessor accept the, uh, the motion?
Sure. Why not? Okay. Sound exciting down there?
All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Congratulations Mr.
Suer.
You gotta reach out to them.
Okay. Any other new business or item 14? Ajour.
Make a motion to adjourn support. Motion by Mr. Jersey.
Support by Mr. Green to adjourn.
All in favor a aye uh, meeting is adjourned at, let's see,
nine 11.