I had like to call an order.
Oh, a regular meeting, a zoning board of appeals
for Wednesday, December 10th at 7:30 PM Please rise
for the Pledge of Allegiance.
I pledge. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America,
And to the republic for which it stands.
One Nation, nation, under God, indivisible,
With liberty and justice for all.
Roll call.
Mr. Safiya. Present.
Mr. Green? Present. Mr. Perry? Present. Mr. Lindsay?
I'm present. Mr. Cliff
Present? Mr. Watts?
Here. Mr. Assessor Present. Mr.
Jersey's present. Chairman of starch.
Present of the Quorum.
Okay. Takes this to item four,
which is adoption of the agenda.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion to adapt the agenda
as written support.
Okay. We have a motion by Mr. Jersey.
Support by Mr. Watts to approve the agenda as written.
All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Abstain.
Have not had time to review. Okay.
Um, but the agenda is approved with one abstention.
Takes us to item five, which is approval of the minutes of,
uh, September 24th, 2025.
Mr. Chair? Yes. I'd like
to make a motion to approve the minutes.
Please support. So we have a motion with Mr.
Assessor, support by Mr. Green to approve the minutes
of September 24th.
All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Mr.
Chair? I abstain. Okay. Uh, due
To absence, Okay.
The minutes are approved for September 24th with, uh, one
of pension by Mr.
Sofa. Uh, the November 12th.
Many minutes have not gone out, so we have to get a motion
to postpone that to the next meeting.
So moved.
Somebody's gotta make a motion.
So moved. Okay. Support.
Okay. We have a motion by Mr. Green, support by Mr.
Jersey to move the approval of the November 12th meeting.
Minutes to our next meeting in January.
Item number six, public hearing.
Item six, applicant fast signs
of Sterling Heights representative, an Andy bad baddy.
Camera description, 2 2 4 3 12 mile appearance.
Request of permission to install a 45 inch by 152 inch,
47.5 square foot wall sign,
and a 24 inch by 356 inch.
59.3 3 33 square foot wall sign for a total
of 106.83 square feet of wall signage.
Be on behalf of Spinal Recovery and Joint Center.
My address is 2 8 2 2 5 Mound Road, Warren, Michigan,
4 8 0 9 2.
Okay. May I present? Yes, you can. Okay.
So basically, um, this business is located
on 12 Mile on the north side of the street, east of Dequir,
um, by Universal Mall.
There, um,
they're called Spinal Recovery and Joint Center.
Um, as you can see from the sign that's there right now,
there's nothing in there sign
that talks about joint recovery.
They have been doing joint recovery, um, as well
as spinal recovery.
And they want the, uh, sign to reflect that so
that people know that they are available
for more than just spinal recovery,
but also for joint recovery.
There are several of these locations for these businesses,
and they're all rebranding to include the, um, joint
recovery aspect of it.
Our ordinance allows for 40 square feet of wall signage,
no matter the frontage that you may have.
Um, it's based on each address.
For example, our building is a rather large building.
It could be divided into more than one business.
And if it had been divided into more than one business,
it could have four or five addresses,
and each one of those could have a 40 foot square
signage under our ordinance.
In this case, we have a very large business with
very large building with one business in it.
Um, the size of our frontage
is 500 square feet, so our awning there
is four feet high, 120 feet wide
for 500 square feet of frontage.
The sign that we're requesting is 106.83 square feet.
It's like it's divided into two signs,
but the total comes out to 106.83 square feet.
So the sign is proportional to this business's roof footage
as it takes up slightly over one fifth
of the roof frontages sign, uh, size.
To have a sign that is smaller than that,
I believe would be disproportionate.
I did research the city records with regard
to this address and signs.
And in 1993 on May 11th,
a pet care superstore sign was approved for 84 square feet.
I brought that with me tonight,
and I'm gonna see if we can pass that up to you so
that you can see it, because I don't think this was
included in your packet.
As, um, the, uh, size that's, uh,
has been approved in the past
12 mile runs rather fast.
It's 45 miles per hour.
It's important for traffic safety that our, uh,
clients be able to find us slow down properly and turn in.
Um, identification is the keystone for signage.
I believe that this sign will make it so
that people will be able to see us and be able to slow down
and properly turn into our, uh, facility.
So the hardship that I would articulate to you is, uh,
lack of identification and improvement of identification.
I'm available for any questions.
I do believe that you have a copy of, uh,
the sign in your packet.
Correct? Everybody has copy of the sign. Okay.
If you have any questions, I'd be glad to, uh, answer them.
Okay. Thank you. Ms. Birdie. Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there audience wishing to speak on this item?
Uh, not seeing any. I, we do have one letter to Readin.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Um, this comes from a Robert and Cynthia Ky.
Um, they reside at 2 9 2 4 5 Merrick Avenue.
Said we are neighbors of 2 2 4 3 12 mile.
And respectfully request the board deny permission
to install the huge signs described in
the notice of public hearing.
We received the business at that address.
Spinal Recco Recovery Center currently has two large signs
that seem more than sufficient given the state
of their parking lot, which is usually full.
We're glad their business seems to be thriving.
The current signs are tasteful and appropriate.
More signs would be overkill.
Signs on the walls of the building would be tacky
and reflect negatively on our
neighborhood and our property values.
Please deny this request variance.
Stop the attempt to make our little corner
of the little trashy.
Let's endeavor to make Warren classy.
Thank you for your consideration.
That's all I have, Mr. Chair.
Okay. Thank you Mr. Jersey.
With that, I'll close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board
for any questions and discussions.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to, um, ask Mr. Jersey ask Ms.
Birdie a question first. Um, good evening, Ms. Birdie. Good
Evening. Um,
So the current sign that's on, on the building right now,
I don't see a variance, um, in our packet.
Um, regarding that sign, is there a variance?
Is there a variance on
that current sign that's on the building?
I have building permit for, I have building permits
for every one of those signs.
And I, I I
Is that or do they fall within 40, 40 square foot?
I guess Steve could, could you shed
Some light? Yes, I can get it
for you.
It's just a yes or no. Says,
this is interesting here.
I do not have the permit history with me.
Um, it's something I can look up back at the office,
but even with the computer,
we can only look up more recent stuff.
So in your professional opinion, the current sign
that's on the building is that out of our current ordinance,
I have permits.
I, I'm waiting to see what she has.
The variance I'm reading.
I don't see where it would be allowed greater than
40 square feet.
The one that's on the building.
So it falls within the 40?
Yes. I, if it does, then it would be allowed
Picture.
It seems to be a pretty simple question.
I don't understand. Uh,
For, for me, For, for anybody.
I mean, is there a variance on
the current sign on the building?
Why would we grant another variance on, on a sign that if
There isn't a variance on the current sign?
I don't know what, again,
What, what's the size of the sign on size of it?
You don't know the size of the sign on the building.
Not without looking at the permits. Which
Ms. Birdie do you have that information?
I do have it here. She thinks she
has it and she's looking for it.
So
That's why I ordered the records.
That's why I adjourned last time.
And I found it was Bright Sign Company
and there are four
or five permits for each individual sign.
This property was combined, wasn't it?
Yes. So there was a house next door.
That house was torn down.
This property was combined with that property.
But there is a sign, uh,
I remember it,
It was Bright Sign Company.
Oh, you're there, you're there.
Um, a permit was issued on the 10th
for a 12.25 square foot sign.
Which no, no, there's five of them.
There's five of them. So
12.2512.
There's four of them. There's three for a total
of 40 square feet from the application I'm looking at.
So it was 40. So it's allowed within the ordinance.
All right. Thank you Mr. Chair.
Yes. Mr. Green's Got 1, 2, 3.
Yes. Mr. Green. So, oh, that's total.
Help me, help me here for clarification. Mr.
The, uh, in the backup,
there's a auto parts world, which was in that building.
What? That was approved for 114 square feet.
How does that play into this? Yes,
And the records are here.
There was approval for 114 square feet.
There was approval, um, for Petco superstores
of 84 square feet.
So the, so if we were The 114 was for the ground sign?
No, it was for roof. A roof sign and the ground sign.
So my clarification I need then is, so
that's, there's a difference then.
Yes. The total. So each sign, yes.
Each sign has to be 40 square feet.
No ground sign can be 70.
The typical ground sign can be 75 square feet.
And typical wall sign is 40 square feet.
Um, it does vary depending on the zone and other things.
Um, but I would say 85%
of the city falls within that area.
Area as a standard
office district is less, um, an M three
or M four is higher.
So there's depends on the zone that it's in.
So when, so what happens to that ground sign then?
Is it gone?
No, The ground.
So this, who's using the ground sign
for, for lo?
Nobody's using it.
It's being Used by
Spinal Recovery. Spinal
Recovery and Joint Center.
They're taking the panel that's already there
and approved and replacing the
Panel. Oh, that's rule
for the ground sign. Okay. Alright.
Thank you.
I've got a question, I guess Steve or Ms. Birdie.
So I saw the permit for the one.
There's the, it was the pet superstore
and looked like the permit for that sign was 84 square feet.
Yes. But I don't see any variance.
I, I guess I was trying to figure out what, what if
that property had any variances?
'cause that if the PET superstore had 84 square feet,
how did they get that without getting a variance?
Again, I was told about it just now. I did see the permit.
Um, I would have to look at our records.
I don't see, I didn't see a variance for it.
Uh, I would have to dig and go from there.
Again, this, there was a combination of properties here.
So I don't know, I that was on this property address
that were, is in question.
But we'll have,
Well, I will say this.
When I got the records, none of the signed records were
for the house that was torn down.
But he is correct. That house was torn down
and the properties were combined.
There is an auto, auto world variance
for about 50 something square feet.
And that's in your packet.
It concerned me that I found a permit for 84 square feet
for Petco superstores.
And yet, I don't know the rest of the information
regarding it, but it's a signed permit
and that sign did go up.
'cause I used to shop there. So I remember
that, that it was there.
Mr. Chair, can I ask one more question?
Yes, go ahead, Mr. King. So what happens then,
Steve, when or Mr.
When, so you, the, there's a, it's not, it was,
it's a combination of buildings at,
at some point it was more, it was separate than what is now?
No, No. When, when the property was torn down,
that became parking lot.
The, the house became parking lot
And then that building went up.
No, no. The building was, was up. Okay. So you referred Ms.
Birdie, you referred to, like, you, you, you,
you explained it as maybe four different buildings as far
as the footprint goes, the size,
but they, it's not, it wasn't never
four different businesses.
No, but it was more than one business at one point.
But the, the point I was trying to make is
with our ordinance, no matter what the size
of your building is, if you have an address
and a business here, you get 40 square feet.
So you could have a very small business with small frontage
and get 40 square feet.
You could have a large business. Like what?
We have a large building and,
and the ordinance calls for 40 square feet.
That's why I was trying to point out that
we should take into consideration, in my opinion,
when evaluating signs for a variance is the size
of the platform for it.
So our roof area
where you would put a sign is 125 by
125 feet by four feet, which is 500 square feet.
The sign we're requesting is 106, uh, square feet,
which is basically one fifth of all that area.
And that's why I was trying to point out by scaling it,
that it's not taking up a huge part of that roof.
And we are taking down the other signs.
I, I wanna make sure I'm clear on that.
I guess I assume that in my presentation.
But these aren't additional signs.
The signs on the building, the wall signs,
of course those will come down.
And the new ones, if approved, would go up.
If I can go back to answering the permit, uh,
it was issued in 1993.
I was not working for the city at that time.
Sorry to tell you. Um, however,
What, Uh, a permit was issued, um,
and when they were issued in the past,
if there was a variance on it,
it would've said ZBA approved and the date.
So I can say that it wasn't ZBA approved.
Um, so once we approved it, that would make
that sign a non-conforming sign.
Legal non-conforming.
Once we issue the permit, now that sign can't,
as long as that sign is maintained, it could stay
until a new sign went up, which is happening here.
So even though it was issued,
it would've been legal non-conforming.
And now everything has to come conformity and go from there.
But it was issued. I do see it
and go from there with the, the documents.
Ms. Birdie has
Mr. Chair.
Yes, Mr. Watts.
So I'm looking at a current
view of the, of the building.
And I did do a drive by
and I'm having a hard time believing
that this sign fits into the 40 square foot.
But then looking at the, the picture, you can see
where a sign was there
before that was wider than what's there now.
Yes. So
I didn't wanna messy the waters.
When I went out to the building
and I looked at it, there had to have been a bigger sign up
because there are holes there
that had a much larger sign up.
That's, but when I got ordered the records,
I didn't find one.
So I didn't want to say that to you
unless you had seen it yourself.
I caught it. Okay. Well, there was a larger sign there.
I'm, I'm suspecting looking back at the records,
that was probably Auto Parts world would probably cover
that much space, but I don't know
that I see a variance for that
Auto parts store Did, oh, I do. Wait a minute. Um,
Did get a variance. Yep.
There is a variance here.
Signage to be a total of 164.62,
But 114 of that was the ground sign at that time.
Okay. Okay. Oh, there we go. Okay. Sorry.
Okay. That's all I got.
Mr. Chairman? Yes. Mr. Sofa.
I've just reviewed the packet.
To me it's more important about now
than what happened in the past.
I, I think it's, uh, first of all, I wanna say
that Spinal Recovery Center is a, in my opinion, a super
business for the city of Warren.
The building is meticulously maintained.
The, the little bit of grass that they have, the windows,
the paint, I admire, uh, that,
that building is generally kept in a very nice, uh,
well kept, you know, order.
Um, I, I think the, the scaling of the sign
and the proportions is, is, is fair in my opinion.
I don't have any problems with it.
Um, that's all I wanted to say.
Okay. Thank you Mr. Sofa.
Are there any other questions, discussion, or
There's no other comments?
I'd like to make a motion.
Okay. Not seeing any other comments?
Um, go ahead Mr. Sopa.
I'd like to make a motion to grant permission
to install a 45 inch by 152 inch,
47.5 square foot wall sign,
and a 24 inch by 356 inch,
59.33 square foot wall sign for a total
of 106 106 0.83 square footage of wall signage due,
due to the, uh, size of the building.
It's not a detriment to the area and it's necessary
Support.
I'm sorry. I do also want to include in there that,
that the current signage will be removed?
Yes. Okay. Can we say current wall signage? Yes. Wall
Signage. And the current wall
signage will be removed?
Yes. Support. Okay. So we have a motion by Mr.
Sfa, support by Mr. Perry to approve the request, uh,
as stated in the motion.
Mr. Safiya? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For The reason stated in the motion on
Record Mr. Assessor
About yes.
For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff? I don't think it
For record.
No, it exceeds the current ordinance by 66.83 square feet.
Mr. Green? Yes. For reason stated in the ordinance.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reason State motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion Mr.
Jersey votes? No. I also
believe it's a detriment to the area.
Not necessary. Chairman of svi?
I vote yes for the reason.
State and motion, uh, the request is approved.
Thank you. There. What are you saying?
Um, what we'd like to do is to remove the auto parts 50
whatever square foot it's called a roof sign.
But it was on this face of the roofing in place
of this to clean up. That I think doesn't
That, I think what Mr.
Water Pond is Worried about. Mr.
Chair, I'd like to amend the motion.
Yeah, I'd like to amend the motion. Um, that
I I don't think you have to do that.
If she voluntarily withdraws
or relinquish that part, I,
I would turn it to the attorney.
I, I agree. If, if she voluntarily
relinquish is on the record. It's done.
I relinquish, um, any roof signs on this property?
Thank you. There. It's okay. Good? Yep. Thank you.
I am seven Applicant Deborah Gaer,
representative Deborah Gaer.
Kevin Description 1 1 8 2 1 Timkin.
Your is requested permission to retain a 10 foot by 12 foot,
120 square foot shed 16 feet behind a proposed 22 foot
by 30 foot 660 square foot garage for a total
of 780 square feet of accessory structure floor area.
So if you could, if, uh, if you can start with your name
and address for the record
and then take us into your request.
Hi, uh, my name is Deborah Gaither,
1 1 8 2 1 Timken Avenue, Warren, Michigan,
4 8 0 8 9.
And would, uh, take us to explain your request for us.
Uh, we had decided to put up a garage, me and my son.
And, uh, we did not realize that
the shed and the combination with the garage was larger than
what, you know, the combination should be.
And, uh, we are requesting that we're allowed
to keep the shed up.
The shed was, um, built according to City code.
You know, we went and pulled the permit, did everything
that we're supposed to.
It was put up probably in oh seven maybe.
And my husband, that was a lot of his pride
and joy getting up that shed
because we weren't able to get a garage back then.
So he's passed away in 2009
and it's been something that my son has used as more
of his man cave.
Um, he spends all of his time in there.
He hates to be inside. He's outside year round.
And when he recovered from a horrible car accident in 2013
and broke his neck, he had six years where he couldn't work.
So he's put his game station in there back when he,
his dad passed away.
And that's just where he would spend all of his time.
Um, he has continued that year round.
He comes in from work, he changes, he eats
and he goes out there and he stays in the shed,
uh, watching tv.
He has it. Um, he hates to be in the house
and it's just an emotional personal attachment
that he has to the shed going back with him
and his dad doing this together.
And we wanna get the garage up.
So anything that's on the property, we want it on the inside
of the property in the garage.
I don't want anything on the outside.
There is a terrible problem with rats in the,
in our neighborhood and we just wanna do everything we can
to, on our part to not contribute to that issue.
And the shed was bought at Home Depot.
It's a wooden shed and it still looks nice
and our neighbors, um, have no problem, uh,
with us having a garage and a shed.
In fact, I've been there 41 years
and nobody has, nobody ever uses
their backyard for anything.
They don't even have a picnic tables back there.
It's just everybody has the side of their house
and, uh, their front yard, you know, where they sit
and visit with neighbors.
So we would just ask that, that 80 square feet
overage if that we could request,
if we could keep that,
because we do have a large lot 50 by one 90,
and so we still have a lot of property in the back,
um, for use.
And my son put a nice cedar wood six foot fence up on one
side, and we're just really trying to update everything
and, and improve it.
Okay. Thank you for that explanation.
Um, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to speak on this item?
Not seeing any or close the public portion
and turn it over to the board.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Jersey.
Um, to the petitioner. Good evening, ma'am.
Um, do you live at the property?
Yes, I do. 41 years.
Um, some of the pictures I've got that were included
with our backup material, um, are kind of disturbing. Um,
My son With the, you know, I mean, I mean,
you got debris all over your yard.
We got a car parked in the, on the grass.
We have, I mean, to be honest with you,
you complain about a rat problem in your neighborhood,
and I'm kind of concerned
that it might be coming from your yard
based off these pictures. I mean, this is like,
No, I is like, can explain that
my son is responsible for that. I, when I
Is any of this cleaned up?
Yes. We have a, um, the largest dumpster there.
It's been there for a week.
My son, my son wanted to wait till the garage was up
to go through all of that.
And I the
Last Why would you need a garage up to go
through sticks and wood? And, and
I agree. I almost,
Do you have a compost thing
that the city has granted your house to throw
compost away and stuff?
Anything you have to say about that? I agree.
I have for two years begged him to go through his stuff.
When he had broke his neck, he couldn't work.
And I think that's when he started accumulating stuff
for the scrap yard.
And I moved out for five years. I wasn't there.
I was helping my sister who was going through hardship.
And I moved back three years ago
and that's when I decided, I says, look,
we have to have a garage.
This has to be cleaned up.
I begged him for two years to please, let's do this.
You have stuff here you are wanting
to scrap, you haven't done it.
And he, he just did not understand
how important it was.
Okay. To me that that's fine. So yes.
So I went ahead and I just ordered a
dumpster. I got the largest.
All right. All right. I'm gonna cut you off there.
So, um, second, you know, back to, back to the nature
of why you're here, um,
I don't think your variance request is anything out of the,
out of the, out of the realm of
what we've granted in the past based off
of the size and shape of a lot.
Um, I like the fact the, you know,
the shed's gonna be hidden by the house.
Um, I do give you kudos for having a privacy fence
that's erected the right way.
Um, a lot of people in this town don't have that,
so you got that going on.
So kudos to that.
Um, the, I, I don't see the request being that, that,
that crazy other, other than the, you know, you have
to almost like, kind of put blinders on to,
to the blight pictures that are kind of in the, in, in
the packet and just kind of focus on what's in front of us.
So, um, I think the garage and,
and the shed, um, to me it's not a detriment.
And I, I think that I, I could get behind it,
but I implore the applicant to maintain better
care of her yard for her neighbor's sake.
Please park your car in the driveway
and then I'll yield the floor.
Mr. Chair. Yeah, I, I apologize, Mr. For the yard. Mr.
Um, yeah, when I went through the packet,
um, and I looked at these pictures,
it's very disturbing.
I agree. And, um,
we have a real blight problem in this city.
And when I see this amount of wood on the ground,
that's a major attractor of rats.
Yes. And, and any, any other kind of, um, rodents,
and I can't get behind this at all
because there's no guarantee that the,
there's these complaints go back to 2020 on the yard
and it's still not cleaned up.
I got a Dumpster. Hang on.
I, I, to address now you're, tell you got a,
you're saying tonight, you got a dumpster this last week.
Well, what happened the last five years?
Well, like I said, I had moved out for five years
and I was not aware he was bringing stuff home.
He, in May is when he started really bringing wood home.
And I says, please wait.
I says, the city has to come into our yard.
They have to approve the foundation.
I said, and I knew that the wood had
to be 18 inches off the ground.
So anyways, you've got five years worth of violations here
that don't appear to be, be corrected.
These pictures are from Nove, mid middle November, so I know
that none of it's been cleaned up,
Or Oh, we got a dumpster there. I got
The, that doesn't,
it's, that doesn't mean it's cleaned up.
So I can, I can't get behind this
until everything is brought up to code
and within the, uh, uh, blight is cleaned up.
I can't get behind it. That, that's all I got.
I'll, I'll be a no vote.
That's being done, Mr. Chair. And we are out there. Just
Ask, there's no question right now,
Mr. Chair for
Ju I'm all set. Thank you. Okay.
Yep. Mr. Green, I, I guess I, I, I can't turn a blind eye
to this, this, the pictures
are, there's something else.
This yard is an absolute mess.
And the backup, the violations that you've got pretty much
spell out for you that you're the source of
food for the road.
So putting you have a wrap problem down
to build a garage or a shed.
Doesn't hold much water.
Bad smells of marijuana, buckets
of water all over the place.
Cars coming and going.
They're just, there's a bunch of stuff.
And the problem is, I guess Mr. Watts,
but I got a question for you, if you don't mind.
Can you build a shed and live in it? No. Okay.
Thank you. You answered my question.
Thank you,
Mr. Chair. Yes,
Mr. Cliff.
So, um,
We've heard a couple of sides here this evening.
Um, this is what I do.
I'm a, I'm a code enforcement officer
in another municipality.
This, the, the photographs are extremely disturbing
to me that I'm seeing here.
However, as my colleague, um, secretary Jersey stated,
you know, if you gotta put blinders on to make a decision,
you put blinders on to kind of make a decision.
Um, on the face of it, what you're asking for is not
absolutely not unreasonable.
It pains me that the City of Warren allows variance requests
to come up before this board
with open enforcements on a property.
There are other places that do not allow that type of thing,
just just for this reason, because it's a little shocking
and it's a little disappointing for a board member to have
to put blinders on to make a decision when
something like this is going on.
And it might even be in his own very,
his very own neighborhood.
I kind of echo the sediments
that you've heard coming from this, this body this evening
that we can't really get behind this.
Um, I just want to make the comment that I'd rather
See if you'd be willing to do a postponement
and approach us again in the future once some
of our concerns about the blight had been
eliminated or taken care of.
Want that more than anybody here.
And I've been actively doing that two years ago.
If you check down to the re um,
I understand that, ma'am.
I'm gonna cut you off. At the end of the day,
your name's on the deed.
You pay the taxes on the property,
and you're responsible for what happens at your property.
That's why being an absent property owner,
this is exactly what happens.
And it's the greatest bane
to your neighbors in the neighborhood.
When you're not there. You don't know what's going on.
And they have to live amongst this.
I, I, I agree.
There's nothing you can't say to me
that I haven't said to my son.
So with that, I'm going to yield the floor. Thank you, Mr.
Cleft. Mr. Chair? Yes, Ms.
Uh, I'll just make one, one quick comment.
Uh, I, I agree that the request here is,
is nothing, you know, that we haven't approved in the past.
I think it's reasonable. Um, I'm gonna be a no vote.
However, uh,
because learning that, you know, we,
we are taking up residence in an already
existing shed structure, uh, it seems like there,
there isn't necessarily a need, um, for another
building, uh, to be put up.
Um, so that's gonna be the reason I could make, you know,
a ton of comments about the blight.
I think we've set 'em all.
That's not what we're here to discuss.
Um, but I'm gonna be a no vote for those reasons.
Thank you, Mr. Lindsey.
Mr. Chair? Yes.
Mr. Frost, if I could, we've discussed this before we,
but according to City Charter, you can't come up here
for variance if your taxes are behind.
You can't get a building permit if your bill taxes are
behind, and now you've got open enforcements
that haven't been taken care of.
I don't know how anyone could even think
that we would approve this.
I, I 'cause it's part of a variance is part
of keeping the city within the ordinance ordinances
and to let this go,
you're ignoring the, the ordinances.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
And it has to stop somewhere.
If it doesn't stop at the desk when they apply for it
and not forward it here, then it's up to us to stop it.
I don't see any other way.
Um, Can I take care of the whole problem?
I was actually gonna say, would we want to like
postpone and delay for, for a length of time
that the petitioner would say it would take
to clean up the yard and bring it up into shape
and then be able to request the garage at that time? Or?
I, I personally don't have a problem
with a postponement in a reasonable amount of time.
I mean, you know, winter's set in on it, so I don't know how
how good they're gonna be able
to get it cleaned up within a couple
of weeks and it's holidays.
Um, so,
but I, I think something has to be done
to get the yard cleaned up before we, we, we grant anything
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr.
Cliff,
When did you plan on breaking ground
for your construction? Ma'am,
We haven't done that.
We have two tree roots we have to remove.
I wanted all of this done when I realized that.
Now my question is, when did you anticipate on starting
Oh, construction on your project?
You know, I go by whatever you guys say.
I am wanting to get the yard completely cleaned up.
They've had the dumpster there for over a week
and I said it's not leaving until the yard is cleaned up.
Okay. So it's winter time.
It's difficult to pour a foundation
for a garage in the winter time.
I mean, we, these
Things usually don't happen.
I would be willing to make a motion to entertain this again.
Yes. In six months time,
Whenever we get everything completely cleaned up,
you know, and gone, he's taken like
six pickup trucks to the scrap yard.
Okay. I got the largest dumpster.
I didn't ask him, I didn't tell him. I just ordered it.
And then I had help. 'cause I can't do all this.
And I says the largest things in the yard,
start putting them in the dumpster because I
Get, I hate to cut you off.
We got other things on the agenda. I'm,
I'm Nervous. I'm
willing to propose to my colleagues a postponement
for a date approximately six months into the future
to entertain this again.
Okay. Can, but in a stipulation with that would be that
somebody from the city come out
and conduct a yard inspection to make sure that yes,
your other issues are taken care of
or supply us in our, in a, in a backup that all
of the deficiencies have been taken care of as far
as the enforcements that are open right now.
Yes. And I think, I think you'll get, at least from me,
you're gonna get a much better response to the whole issue.
It kind of fits in with the timeline of construction.
Now understand, once you draw your permit, you've got a year
to act on it anyway, a year.
Is that correct?
Oh, Once the,
if a variance is approved, you have a year
to pull the permit and you have six months for a permit.
So you got, But we do grant extensions on that. Okay.
As long as there's movement on it.
'cause some permits for a large building
or something definitely will take more than six months.
So we do, as long as there's progress.
It, I'm, I'm listening to you. It is winter time.
It's tough to do things in winter,
but six months from now is gonna be the may june timeframe.
It's fine. We're working daily. Okay.
Me and my health are out there in 11 degree weather
because I said it has to be done.
But if you've got tree roots
and other issues to get done,
winter might preclude you from getting those taken care of
before the ground thaws enough to work on things like that.
Springtime is fine.
I just, he's gonna get those tree roots out and me
and my help, we're on getting the cleanup done.
When this dumpster's gone,
then I'll probably order another one.
Whatever it takes to get the yard clean. His dad would never
Allow This. Can I get case
a May meeting? Do
we have anything published yet?
I would, I would, I I kind of concur with, um, you, Mr.
Cliff, but I, I would recommend maybe go to April.
Um, do we know what the April meeting would be yet? Nicole?
April 8th and 27th, 22nd.
So I would, I would go to April 22nd meeting.
Does Steve want to add something in
before we make a motion to postpone this?
I would, I would like to address your guys' concerns.
Property maintenance is on this.
And traditionally property maintenance,
if they don't see them working on cleaning it up,
property maintenance will issue a cleanup
order and have it cleaned.
I would rather the property owner absolutely.
As would everyone else. But it,
I'm gonna almost guarantee it will
be cleaned up by that time.
Either by the city or by her. So Yeah.
But by the time the bill for that comes in now,
our project might be at risk.
That is true. So, so she cleans
that brings up its much better.
Okay. So we've have, we have this backup
that says property maintenance has already been out there,
so all of a sudden,
magically now the property maintenance
is gonna clean it up for them.
What, what, what happened previous to that, Steve?
So you, you're saying that property maintenance will go out,
they can look at it and if they don't clean it
up, property maintenance will clean
It up? Well, in
the past the departments
weren't as large as they are.
They're, they're much bigger.
And we do have, um,
I'm gonna say court friendly when it comes to cleanups
and everything like that at this point in time. Okay, so
It's different. Different. Yeah,
it's a d Okay. Okay.
I have called Derek after every notice. Ma'am
Is there, it's okay. There's
not a question right now.
Did somebody else have something?
Does anybody have comments
or would you like to make a motion to postpone it?
Yes, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion
to postpone action on this item
until our April 22nd, 2026.
Meeting
Support?
Yeah. Okay. So there's a motion by Mr. Cliff and was it Mr.
Suer? I heard the support from Yes.
To postpone this to April 22nd meeting,
that'll give you a chance to get the yard cleaned up.
So when you come back to us,
there won't be any concerns about the state of the backyard.
And we can address your garage at that time.
Mr. Yes. I, Mr. Cliff in
Contact with Derek, I will send him
updated pictures. Okay?
Thank You. Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reasons
Mr. Watts? Yes.
For the reasons stated in The motion. Mr. Lindsay,
Uh, vote no. To
postpone. I think we should be voting on things
that are in front of us today.
Mr. S Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion Mr.
Jersey votes Yes. For the reason
stated in motion Chairman Stevi?
Uh, yes. For reason stated in motion.
So this request is postponed to April 22nd meeting.
Okay, so
It's Takes us to item eight.
It's, we're here this again on April 22nd
to give you a chance to get everything cleaned up.
Thank you. I appreciate
This. It takes us to item
eight, applicant Hector Leon,
representative Hector Leon.
Common description, 1 4 6 6 8 Alger
variances requested permission to one retain 54 inches
of driveway widen beyond the east garage building line
and 48 inches beyond the west garage building line
for an overall driveway width of 28 feet.
Two retain 30 feet, six inches
by 18 feet plus 10 feet by 10 feet.
649 square foot gazebo attached to the house in addition
to a 10 foot by 10 foot, 100 square foot shed
and 410 square feet attached garage for a total
of 1,159 square feet of accessory structure, floor area.
And three, waive. The required rat wall for the gazebo
Is the petitioner present.
I'm not seeing the petitioner present to
Mr. Chair. Make a
motion to move item number eight
for the tail end of the agenda this evening
for the petitioner to possibly appear late.
Support. Uh, I'll make that item
like 13 B.
13 A Oh, 13 A. Okay, so we have make
Item eight 13, make item, make item eight 13 a
Motion. I'll support that.
Mr. Cliff. It's support by Mr.
Jersey. It I'll in favor? Aye. Opposed?
I'm opposed. I think they,
if they're not here, we should move on.
I've always thought that.
I agree. They had plenty of time to be here.
Thank you. Okay.
And that's, uh, seven to four then, uh, two opposed.
Uh, the item will be heard as 13 A takes Item
Number nine takes item nine.
Applicant City of Warren, representative Bob Weidner.
Common description,
2 1 9 1 6 Panama Variance requested permission
to construct a single family residence on a 50 foot wide lot
in a R one C zoning district.
Uh, good evening everyone.
Bob Weidner, city of Warren Community Development One City
Square, Warren, Michigan, 4 8 0 9 3.
Um, we are asking to build a single family home
and a lot that is, um, 50 foot by 1 44.
Okay. Anything else you wanted to add on that item or
That's, pardon Me?
Is there anything else you wanted to state on your
request or no?
I'm, I'm Sorry. I can't, I wasn't sure if that,
if you're done with your Yeah,
I, I'm done. Thank you. Okay.
This is a public hearing.
Um, Sarah, I, the audience wishing to speak on this,
not see any or close the public portion.
Oh, there's, uh, there, there is a letter here to read
before we close the public portion.
Uh, thank you Mr. Chair.
This is a, um, from the playing department, um,
have review of the request.
No issues were found to impact
that budding local or general public.
The petitioner received recommendation for approval
by the planning commission for a subdivision last split on
November 17th, 2025
For close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to board for questions and discussion.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Watts?
I looked at this. This is a, um, a one large piece.
They wanna split it. I don't,
I don't see a problem with this.
I think getting a, a house built on it and hopefully sold
and it won't be a rental, I hope.
Um, no.
And get some tax dollars off this property be
worthwhile investment. So
Thank you.
Just real, real quick to, uh, the petitioner, how big,
what's the square footage of the house?
Uh, the house is 1,248 square feet. That's what I
Thought I said saw. Okay.
Thank you sir. Yes, sir.
If nobody else has any comments
or questions, um, I'd like to make a motion.
Um, I'd like to make a mo motion to grant the petitioner
his permission to construct a single family residence on a
50 foot wide lot in an R one C zoning district.
Due the size of the shape of the lot
and it's not a detriment to the area
Support. So
you have motion by Mr. Jersey? Support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the request for reason. State and motion.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. For reason.
State and motion. Mr. Cliff? Yes.
For the reason stated the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason, stated the
Motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes.
For the Reason, stated the motion. Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reason, stated the Motion. Mr. Sia? Yes. For
The reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason, stated the motion
Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion and Chairman Star Yes.
For reason stated, a motion to request is approved.
Thank you very much. Item 10
Takes us to item 10.
Applicant city of Warren represented Bob Wener.
Che description 2 1 9 1 6 Panama Variances Requested
permission to construct a single family residence on a 50
foot wide lot in the R one C zoning district.
Uh, good evening. Bob Weidner, city
of Warren Community Development.
Um, one C Square, suite two 10, Warren, Michigan 4 8 0 9 3.
We're asking permission to build a single family home on a
lot that is, uh, 50 feet wide.
Okay. Um, a little background.
The the houses are that we build,
they'll have a full basement.
It has a two car de detached garage
and its fits the lot very well.
Okay, Thank you. I like the fact there's a basement
that's, I like the fact there's a basement. That's good.
Okay. Thank you. Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there an, the audience wishing to speak on this item,
not seeing any there.
We do have a planning letter that was submitted.
Mr. Garcia? Yeah, we do have
Another impact statement from planning department.
Um, after review of the request, just like the other one,
no issues were found to impact the
budding local or general public.
The position received recommendation for approval
by the planning commission for a subdivision last split on
November 17th, 2025.
Okay, so the public portion of the meeting is closed
and we'll turn over to the board for
any questions or discussion.
Nobody else has any questions or discussions.
I'd like to make a motion. Uh, I'd like to make a motion
to grant this petition as well.
Permission to construct a signal,
family residence on a 50 foot wide lot in R
one C zoning district.
Due to the fact the size and shape the
lot's. Now a detriment to the area
Support. We
have a motion by Mr. Jersey, support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the request
for the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. For the reason stated in
motion. Mr. Clifft? Yes?
Yes, for the reasons stated in
The motion. Mr. Green, may
I ask? Yes. For the reason stated of
The motion Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes.
For the reason stated Motion. Mr. Lindsey? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion
Mr. Perry?
Yes. For the rein stated the motion Mr.
Aya? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Chairman Dovi? Uh, yes.
For reason stated motion,
your request is approved.
Thank you very much.
Takes us to item 11, applicant Melvin Hudson,
representative Cindy Lamb.
Kevin Description, 8 4 2 5 12 mile variance
of requested permission to waive a total
of 48 parking spaces.
Relinquish previous parking variances
that were granted on 9 13 19 67
and 2 12 19 69.
Hi guys. Um, so I'm Mel Hudson
with CSI Support and Development.
We're a senior affordable housing provider.
Our headquarters is in Warren at 84 25 East 12 Mile.
Um, we put in
for an application we were gonna increase the size of our,
uh, front lobby by about 20 feet.
That triggered, um, planning
or site plan, review, insight, plan review.
Everything went great.
We got to a point where it said, um, you know,
contingent upon, you know, appropriate parking.
At that point, we went back
and reviewed with our architect found that, um,
we were essentially under parked in our existing parking.
So, and we've been there since 2007.
So with that, he said that we would need
to get a zoning variance so we applied for the variance.
Okay, thank you for that explanation.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is everyone in the audience wishing to speak on this item?
Uh, if you could just approach the podium
and state your name and address and then your comments.
Cynthia Rose, 2 9 1 3 1 Longview.
Um, I'm the president of the condo association
that is on the other side of the monolithic wall.
And this is Arthur Al.
2 9 1 3 1 Longview, apartment number two. Same question.
We just didn't know what this was for.
So we just wanted to make sure that
that wasn't gonna interfere with our monolithic wall
that we lost when Planet Fitness was built.
That's all.
Okay.
Okay. Is the, so is there you, did you want the petitioner
to answer a question of a fourth out or is that, because
I didn't hear what, what the variance was for or
It's for the amount of parking spaces.
It's what For, for how many parking spaces to
Wa 48 parking spaces to waive 48 parking spaces
To waive it. It has nothing
to do with the monolithic. Not at all. No.
Okay. We're done. Thank you.
I close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board
for any questions and discussion.
Mr. Chair? I just have a quick,
uh, question to the petitioner.
Good evening, sir. Um, so I, I I take it
that you have an adequate enough parking as,
as is for your business.
I do. It's not impact impacting the, you know,
the local streets or anything like that.
This is just something that kind
of got over overlooked when they went through the initial
site plan process with your building
and your little expansion, which I think is it,
it it's modest.
You know, it's, it's, it's a modest addition.
I could get behind it. Um, as long
as it's not gonna impact any of the current parking
situation, which I don't think so.
'cause you're just, it's not like you're adding more rooms
for business and stuff like that.
So, um, what's the nature
of the business by, by the way, over
There? We do senior affordable
housing. Okay.
And we're international. We we're in four states. Okay.
Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, and California.
And we're headquartered right here in Horn.
Gotcha. Okay. Well, thank you sir.
Um, I, I think I could get behind this.
Um, this is a, a simple request in my opinion.
Um, but I'll yield the floor.
My colleagues have something else to say.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Mr. Lindsay first?
Yeah, I would just echo you, Mr. Jersey.
Um, we're already operating, uh, this business.
Nothing's really changing. It looks
to be a large enough parking lot.
So I'm in Danor.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Watts.
Um, is there any other businesses in this building?
No. When we first entered the building, we,
there was other spaces,
but since we, we've occupied the whole place now,
so there's no, no other business.
All right. Because I'm looking at,
I'm like looking at a Google Earth view
and I see only 11 vacant parking spots.
I don't know how old this, I don't know if it's a year
or two years or three years.
I just want to make, and I know you said you're,
you're making your lobby larger,
but I just wanna make sure by waiving 48 spots,
it's not gonna change anything for you.
Right? So, exactly. There's no changes at all in our,
the lot itself has been exactly the same since 2007.
So this, what we're doing is our lobby is just really small
and by pushing it out a little bit, we're making a,
a more seating space for the people as they wait.
Okay. Perfect. Thank you Mr. Watts.
Yep. So
I think I, I mean, I don't know what image you pulled,
but this seems to be quite a, you know,
at least adequate parking based off the stuff in the backup.
So, um,
I'll yield Any other questions
or Matt, are there a motion?
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion.
Uh, I'd like to make a motion to grant the petitioners
permission to waive a total of 48 parking spaces
and relinquish previous parking variances
that were granted on 9 13 19 67 and 2 12 19 69.
Due to the fact the size and shape
of the line is not a detriment to the area. Four.
Four. So we have a motion by Mr.
Jersey and I heard support by Mr.
Cliff to approve the request for reasons stated in motion.
Mr. Jersey votes Yes. For a reason.
State of the motion, Mr. Cliff?
Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason. State
Of the motion Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reasons stated of the
Motion. Mr. Lindsay?
Yes.
For the reason stated in the Motion Mr. Assessor? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Sia? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Mr. Perry?
Yes. For reinstating the motion
And Chairman Stach?
Uh, yes. For resinated motion.
Um, your request is approved.
Thank you very much.
Case item number 12. Item
12. Applicant Steven Savage,
representative Steven Savage.
Common description, 2 6 8 3 7.
Ryan Brandon has requested permission to retain 12 foot
by 28 foot 336 square foot
paying mural wall signage on the east elevation in addition
to the permitted 40 square foot wall sign for a total
of 376 square feet of wall signage.
Is the petitioner present
not seeing the petitioner?
Um, do you want proceed undecided
or do, do I have a motion
to postpone it to the next meeting?
Maybe the weather or so,
Mr. Chair?
Yes, Mr. Watts? I personally don't see a reason to,
to postpone if somebody can't be here.
It's a simple phone call. Uh, plain and simple.
The other half of the coin is, you know, I'm looking at
what the variance is, which
kind of boggles my mind, I guess.
But, um, I don't know. It's up to you guys.
I just, like I say, I just, I have a problem
with people not showing up.
I'd like to proceed. I'd like to
Proceed to, can we get a roll call vote
to whether to proceed?
Somebody make a motion to proceed. I make a motion
that we take a roll call vote in order
to see if we proceed with this item or not.
So you're making a motion for us to proceed
with this item or
For a roll call? Vote
to see if we proceed with the item for a roll call.
Vote to see if we proceed with the item,
Mr. Chair. Well,
to the city attorney,
the item is on the agenda, correct?
So do we really have to all due respect,
do we really have to take a vote to decide whether
or not we're gonna act on the item
when it's already on the agenda?
I, maybe Mr.
Cliff stated it wrong, but I I believe there are some people
who would like to move it to the end
or move it to another date due to the intimate weather.
Um, so I I I think the motion was just stated incorrectly.
I, someone needs to mo make a motion to proceed.
Or actually someone needs to make a motion to,
to postpone if that's what you wanna do.
Um, if, if that's not what you wanna do
and there's no motion, then you proceed.
You can hear it.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Ross,
Can we ask Mr. Watchpoint,
have they had any contact with this gentleman?
Um, Shocking.
Um, I have not had recent conversation.
I've dealt with him at the counter
and he was aware of a lot of the stuff that was needed.
And, um, as a former board member
and a city employee, I always like
to give someone an extra chance.
We'd rather get compliance and everything else.
If a variance is voted down, it's done
and they can't come in front of you again.
So that's why I would like
to give a second chance most of the time.
Fair enough. Mr. Chair. Withdraw my motion.
What, does someone wanna make a motion
to postpone the item or
I, I'll make a motion to postpone the item
till the January meeting.
January 14th. January 14th. January 14th
Meeting. Is
there support for that? Motion support?
So we have a motion by Mr. Watts, support from Mr.
Jersey to postpone this item to January 14th meeting.
Uh, do we want to do a roll call for this one?
Roll please. Roll call.
Yes. Yep. Um,
So a, a yes vote would be to postpone this
to the January 14th meeting.
Uh, Mr. Watts? Yes. Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
Um, Mr. Aya?
No. The enforcement file goes back to May,
that the owner was in the property, owner was informed
of the sign not being
Mr. Perry.
Yes. Mr. Assessor?
Yes. Mr. Cliff?
No. The enforcement packet goes back an
awful long way on this.
And I do understand that there was a death related,
a little hold up on this, but that occurred in October.
It's been plenty of time to move forward. I vote no.
Mr. Green. No. Mr. Lindsay? No.
To postpone And Chairman starch?
Vote yes. To postpone.
So this item will be heard on January 14th.
January 14th. Okay.
So item number 13.
Gimme one second here.
Okay. Item 13, applicant Dennis Bastic,
representative Lisa Baker.
Description, 3 2 9 0 0 dender suite a
variances requested permission
two One.
Install a 50.27 square foot wall sign on the west elevation,
and a 50.27 square foot wall sign on the north elevation
for a total of 100.54 square feet of wall signage two.
Install a 61.5 square foot monument sign.
That is nine feet high. 11 inches high.
Contains an electric message center
that is four feet by eight feet.
43% of total permitted freestanding sign area
to within two feet of the sidewalk along Quida Road three.
Install second 61.5 square foot monument sign.
That is nine feet 11 inches high.
Contains an electric message center
that is four feet by eight feet.
43% of the total permitted for standing sign area
to within two feet of the property lane along 14 mile.
Okay. Good evening, Mr. Chair and fellow ZBA members.
I'm here representing. Um, Dennis,
If you could just start with your name and address for the
Record and then go into your request.
Baker Sign Fabricators.
Um, 4 3 9 8 4 North Beck Highway, Clinton Township.
Okay. And now if you could take us into your request.
Yeah, I am.
Just, we're here, um, looking at this, the,
the property owner is putting considerable amount of
money into this, um, updating it, um, to
what the current areas, um, updating to
what current standards are, um, the variance
or appeal for the wall signs
and monument signs I think are founded
and the signs are appropriately sized
for the areas surrounding properties.
Um, I've included a number of pictures,
if you look at the corner that it's at, uh, 14 and quinter.
There's some very large signage, um, three gas stations,
an auto place that, um, is, um,
blocking, I guess a lot of this area.
So we're looking at putting signage in there.
The signage that we're requesting is considerably
less than what's already there.
Um, there's an existing monument sign
that was granted back in, I believe, 66
and has been the same size July 6th, 1966.
Um, that a, that the variance allowed for that two foot, um,
setback, um, with the sign being 10 foot,
nine foot six inches in height.
So pretty much the same size that we're requesting.
Um, the wall sign currently is 178 square feet.
Um, this property has about 170 linear
feet of frontage, um, 13,000 square feet.
So it's a considerably large building.
Um, I think what we're requesting,
we're requesting two wall signs at 50 square foot.
So it's about half of the wall signage
that's currently there existing on the property.
And then we're requesting the two
monument signs at the two entrances.
Um, the biggest one, the issue on 14 mile is chats
beside it, uh, has a reader board
and sign that is probably 3, 2, 3, 6
times the size of what we're requesting.
Um, it, the visibility is very low due to trees.
The fencing that's there from the other there, that huge,
um, monument sign that is on the property next door, that
Laneway is very difficult to navigate,
I think without signage there for the, for them to be able
to navigate and see that entrance.
And likewise, on Quinter, just due to the large canopies,
the signage that's all on that corner.
Okay. Thank you for that presentation.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone in the audience to speak? Not seeing anyone.
I will turn the turn, uh, end the public portion
of the meeting and turn it over to a board
for discussion and questions.
Mr. Chair, real quick. I have a question for Steve. Yes,
Mr. Jersey.
So the building's blue.
Does that, how does that not fall under design element
if the building's, I mean, is there, I mean,
I know we've had design element things
with cer certain things and sign packages that came
before us, but, um, you know,
with the building being painted blue, I, I, I'm kind of,
That is a static color throughout the building
with it, so it's not,
So as long as the whole building's painted solid,
It's not there to draw attention. It's there as a solid
Call. Oh, it's there to draw
attention.
Well, so I mean, it's a matter of interpretation,
but, um, okay.
Thank you for that answer. But, um, getting back
to the sign package, um, I I, I, I personally,
we've got a huge problem in this city with LED lights.
We, we've had this discussion numerous times.
Um, me and you, um, me
and other board members with
so many LED light displays being out of the two candle wick,
whatever variance is on the books.
And I haven't seen any enforcement in this town
regarding any LED lights starting right
outside here on our front lawn.
Sure. So, I mean, between that, um, gas stations,
I, I mean, it, it's becoming a problem.
So I, I'm inclined
to not grant a single more single LED sign anymore in this
town because we have no enforcement on LED lights.
And it's starting to get really bright.
It's blinding and it's obnoxious.
So your sign package, I could get in fi, I could get
behind the regular sign,
but I'm not gonna get behind a sign, especially an LED sign
that's two feet off a sidewalk that's probably gonna be out
of, to out of, out of, out of Candlewick ordinance
the, the minute it goes up.
So how are we gonna have two blinding lights now on,
you know, Quida
and 14 mile a blue building, you know, screaming cannabis.
So I, I, I can't get behind anything,
but maybe the wall sign on the building.
Um, but I would like to put on the record
that we just need more enforcement
of LED signs in this town.
I was hoping that we would get to that point
with the time change
and, you know, with it becoming darker earlier,
but it doesn't seem to be the case.
So with that, I yield for
Mr. Chair.
Thank You, Mr. Lindsey.
Uh, so Mr. Jersey, I think you know my comments on the,
uh, the LED signs, I'm not in favor of those either.
Um, when I'm looking at this sign package, this,
this is really excessive in my opinion.
Um, you know, I'm looking at the, the wall signs.
I mean, I, I'm not in favor of another cannabis shop,
but that, that's not what we're here to discuss.
Um, so that, that's not gonna sway my opinion here.
Um, I don't know why these two signs I'm, I'm fine with,
with both of 'em for the, the first item,
but I don't know why those can't be smaller in size.
Um, so I'm not in favor of those.
The, the monument sign, um, the one is,
is completely blocking the, the BP gas station.
Um, it's, it's out of control.
Um, this is, yeah.
And then the other one is, is by the, uh,
the other wall sign, the monument
sign, I guess I should say.
Uh, it's like we're just scattering signs
across the whole property.
Um, I'm not, I'm not in favor of this.
I don't see why, um, that we need anything outside
of the wall signs here.
Um, this is,
this is far way too far out of the ordinance, in my opinion.
So it's a detriment. I'm not, I'm not voting yes on any
of these By yield before
Mr. Chair. Thank
You, Mr. Lindsay. Uh, Mr. Watts.
So I, I agree.
And I have a real problem with the 14 mile sign.
When I look at the size of the sign
and where it's going to go.
You got the other sign there.
You got other signs on 14 mile, you know, and I,
and I'm sitting here looking at where the sign
where they're, they, they have an existing sign
where they're gonna put this larger sign on 14 mile.
And I'm looking at the property there
and it's not even maintained.
There's weeds growing everywhere.
Um, It's too much signage.
It's just way too much signage.
I, I don't understand in, in driving.
I drove through there the other day.
I'm like, who's gonna go in from 14 mile?
'cause you, if you go in from 14 mile,
you gotta go all the way the back,
then you gotta go all the way back out to Quinter.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
Um, that's just way too much signage.
And then to add the LED package in there,
there's just no way I can get behind this.
This is, it's ridiculous.
The other question I had, you know, every packet we get,
there's always enforcement actions.
And I don't see any enforcement actions on this.
Were they, was there, were they left out
The, for the most part,
the enforcement actions you get are zoning
enforcement actions, um, that are in the BS and a system.
If there was any property maintenance issues,
they are using a different system.
And we do not have that all the time. Sometimes we get it.
Um, but what we, what you'll see most of the time is zoning
and zoning has not been out there on infractions.
Okay. I, I, I understand the zoning part.
I don't know that I understand the blight part. So if
I could address that, these pictures are old.
We've pulled them off of Google Maps.
So the, the, they're,
I guess currently there's a huge improvement there.
A whole new facade, you know, the upgrade on that.
They're improving the whole area
and upgrading it to what current. I,
I was by there Saturday down 14 mile
and specifically looked at the signage on 14 mile
and looked at how much it was space it was gonna take up.
And there's not that, it's not, that's just too much.
It's ridiculous. So I'll be a no vote.
Mr. Chairman? Yes, Mr. Sfa,
I reviewed the sign package.
I don't, I don't have a problem with the
two signs on the building.
Um, I think it's overkill.
The, the monument signs on the Quran 14.
I do understand the need for the, maybe the one on 14 mile,
just because that is their access point.
Their customers should be able to come in that way.
Uh, but I, I think the, the sign
that's proposed is just too large for that 14 mile entrance.
Okay. The same with the Kunder one.
Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chair.
Yes. Mr. Jersey. You know, real quick, I, I, I think the,
the color of the building
is probably gonna be their best sign.
I mean, you go by that corner, you can't help
but not turn your head to see that building.
I mean, with, without a sign.
So I, I really think the, the facade
and the paint job on the building is probably gonna draw
more people than any kind of sign package.
My, my, my personal opinion.
So I'll yield the floor with that,
but I could get behind the wall signs.
I can't get behind two and three.
Okay. Any other comments
or any questions? Motions,
Mr. Chair?
Yes, Mr. Sfa? I, I guess I would like
to ask the petitioner, uh, if I may Yes, please.
You, you've heard our comments tonight.
Um, it sounds like you,
you may have enough support for item one.
The other two items, uh, items two
and three, you've heard the comments so far?
Mm-hmm. Do you I I'm willing to make a motion
for item one. Do
I I, I respect that
and understand that and appreciate that.
Um, the thing with the two, um,
monument signs is they're existing.
So what they're wanting to do is upgrade those.
Um, size is actually less in both instances.
So the front one, um, I think currently it's 75 square feet.
Oh, 72 square feet.
Um, they're reducing that to 61 square feet.
So they're actually reducing the size of it.
There's a good existing footing existing sign
that has been there since 66 by the looks of it.
So the signage is actually less than what's current.
We're reducing the size of it. Yes.
There's the, the, um, implementation of the LED board.
Um, I certainly would be open to that.
Likewise, on the 14 mile.
Um, I think it's important to mark that, that, um,
entranceway due to, I believe there's a dt, um,
A DOT thing, that you're not gonna be able to turn left into
that dender entrance.
And that's the reason why they're wanting
to mark that 14 mile.
'cause that's gonna be the way the traffic is occurring,
that there, it's, they're going to have to be using
that 14 mile entrance.
And if you look at what's surrounding there,
it's very difficult to distinguish that driveway due
to the very large LED board chu sign,
the fences and everything that's there.
So how does the client,
or how does someone going into that building distinguish
where that driveway is?
And that's the reason why
they're wanting to put something there.
It's existing. The re the size is actually being reduced.
Um, they're wanting to use the same footings.
Um, it's just a marker
to get in direct traffic into the proper laneway there.
Thank you. Thank you. Steve,
did you have something you wanted to add in?
Um, in our research, we did not find any permit for
that 14 mile sign.
Um, we, we've looked and looked and we haven't found it.
So at this point, it would be considered a new sign
and would have to go through all the protocols as a new sign
and go from there.
So as of now, that 14 mile road sign, as far
as the city goes, doesn't exist.
Great.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Cliff.
I kind of echo a lot of the sediments
of my colleagues up here,
but I, I think if you found yourself bringing yourself into
the, uh, uh,
permitted it To the
permitted, um, spacing on those monument signs,
I hear you talking about their existing
and the, the, what you're going
to put there is actually going to be smaller.
But, um, I'll remind you that most of my colleagues up here
that have problem with the monument signs we're talking
about that, uh,
excessively bright LED component
that you're wanting to add into those.
At 43%, you're gonna have
to get an okay from this board in
order to move forward with that.
And it doesn't appear that you're
gonna have the support for that.
If you stay at the 25% or below.
You don't even have to appear before us to, to put that in.
So, um, so just, there's a couple of different ways
to to address it.
We, we can vote on it the way it sits,
and then you get a no and that's it. It's done.
Okay. I just wanna confirm,
'cause you've got the ordinance.
So section four, four a 0.35, it states that,
um, a freestanding sign on the premises, you're allowed up
to 150 square foot.
But I think on one of the other ones it was stated
completely different.
So what is, is it 150 square feet that they're allowed
or what is the ordinance?
'cause it's stated just in this
today's thing, two different ways.
So I wanted to verify
That. Steve, can
you actually just clarify that for everyone?
Um, actually I'm gonna ask Brian, is this all M two
or is there M three on the property too?
It's M two. So the M two allows
for 75 square feet of free,
uh, freestanding sign.
One freestanding sign up to 72 square feet.
With the setback equal to the height.
Uh, if it's a monument sign,
it can't be greater than five feet.
Okay. And Then does, I think I've covered most of it.
Yeah. So this variance, um, back in 66
where they granted it to be two foot off of the sidewalk.
That was that not, will that not hold?
No, that you can have a two foot, um,
And it's a 10 foot by 10 by three and eight feet.
Basically a 10 foot by 10 foot height. So it's 35.
The sign was, that's
The width. So the length
which it is existing,
so the footing's there, so it's 10 foot,
10 foot by three and a half.
So it's 35 foot height, square foot sign
that was approved back then
from reading the previous variance. For,
For dender On dender.
Correct. So
with the setback and at, at the
35 square feet,
you would only be allowed 25% of that 35
because of that setback, that size would stand.
And the one 50 or 75 does not even come into play.
It would have to meet all the ordinances if you wanted
to do that and go from there.
So I, okay, so just to make sure. So repeat that.
Just basically To me,
it sounds like the biggest concern is the LED portion.
That's, so it's like less Mr.
Chairman was the point I was trying to make is that, from
what I'm hearing, everybody's got,
and I as well have issues with those, uh,
ultra bright LED message flashing signs.
Um, uh, the board in good faith over the years has kind of
went along with some of that stuff,
but we're, we're finding it
to be more detrimental than anything around town.
And I was just letting the, the petitioner know that,
you know, there, there are some options here without even
having to appear before us
because, uh, the setback is already in place.
That two foot setbacks already in place.
That ex that that's already there.
They wouldn't even have to, to come
before us to talk about that.
What, what we're talking about is not even the sheer overall
size of that monument signage.
It's, it's that 43% message board
that's kind of, I think, stuck in a lot of guys crop here.
So, so if, if they're allowed 150 square feet, um,
25% of that
Is, they're not allowed 150 square feet what they
States here, right.
On the, your paperwork for today's agenda
In M three and M four, it,
it's actually an M two zone, so,
Okay. That doesn't even
apply.
So, so, okay.
That's what I was trying to clarify. Right.
So you're stating that, so the, so the um, sign would have
to be 75 square foot with 25% of that.
No. What was allowed with
that variance was only a 35 square foot sign.
Correct. Unless you wanna move it back
and meet the height requirements and set bed. It's
10. It's 10 by 10.
No it isn't. It's 10 foot. It's 10.
It was 10 foot width foot wide. No, it was 10 foot wide by,
Yeah. 10 foot, 10
foot height by that. That's the height.
I don't know how this works out.
I would have to look at the actual me meeting minutes
to go forward from there.
But it says the sign is only to be 10 foot by three feet,
six inches and, and the write up on the card.
Yeah. It says nine. I would have
to look at the meeting and go from there.
So nine. So if you want to postpone that,
I can do the digging and have those
details at the next meeting.
Yeah. It says nine foot, six inches in height.
I agree with that. Yeah. That height
By 10 foot wide.
And if I could just, I'll yield the floor.
I was just gonna say, 'cause I agree with
what I've heard my colleagues say
because I have no problem getting behind
and supporting item number one.
I don't like having 43% of the sign in two
and three being LED.
It'll be at the 25%, which is
what our zoning ordinance allows.
Then we don't even have to hear that portion.
And, um, so I have a hard time supporting 43%.
That's the issue I
Have.
Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr. Cliff.
And to the petitioner, I would, I would be willing to make
that motion to postpone if you want
to take all the information you've gathered and go back
and rewo rework a few things.
If you have to come back for a few things
that seem like they may be more in the wheelhouse
of reasonability for the board, I encourage you to do that.
I, I would sooner give you an opportunity to review,
reflect, and come back as opposed to just
see you move forward with a vote
and end up getting no voted No.
I appreciate that. So you're basically stating
that we can go forward with the wall signs,
but let's look back at what the size
and what the variance was.
No, a postponement would be a postponement on all of it.
Okay. On all of it.
Or you can withdraw what you're asking
for on the other items and move forward with
that wall wall sign.
I, I don't know what your timeline might be.
We'd be willing to look at it in a month,
maybe two if need be.
Okay. Are we able to get back on the agenda
of the January agenda?
Nicole? Could we do a postponement for January?
January 14th. January 14th. Yes.
So sounds like that's doable.
January 14th sounds very doable.
That way I can go back to the client just
'cause I, I'd like to go back to them Absolutely.
And work with them. Um, I'd like to understand what's,
I guess if we're only allowed that 75 square foot
or if this other variance would allow for a larger sign with
only that 25% of it being the reader board, the LED. And
Then I think that's your biggest, I think
that's the biggest hangup for us.
And likewise too, like I, I'd hate
to say let's vote on it.
Okay. When I don't have that information,
especially when it's a client of ours.
I'm not the one deciding.
So do we have a motion? Would anybody else chair have any
comments on There's a, there's a question first.
Okay. Mr. Wa, I got, I got
A question to Mr. Watchpoint
now that it came up that there's not a permit
for the sign on 14 mile.
Where does that put us with this?
The variance they're requesting
The variance. You can
request a variance for anything.
So the variance would still be a legitimate request. Okay.
We just will start enforcement.
But we didn't because it was coming in front of you
and we did the research later on
after this was, as this was processed, we started looking
and trying to get other things done, we went back to it
and it was determined there was nothing there. Okay.
Fair enough. Yep. So would start enforcement on it.
But it, it basically, the ordinances are there.
Anyone can ask for a variance at any time.
The only time we deny it based on the uh,
zoning ordinances is when they owe the city money.
That's the only time we put a stop to it.
If they request it, it comes to you guys.
So we have no control of stopping it no matter
what the property looks like
or anything at this point in time
because it we're not allowed to.
Okay. And it's zoning Enabling Act has a set state too,
and I don't see it in there.
Okay. The other thing I would like to mention
is I've, for forgot now,
what was I, what were we talking about?
75. The 75 would have to be set back.
We're going to pull out the original permit
that matched it, show where it was.
And I, uh, Brian says it's, it was an odd shape sign,
so there was some uniqueness to that.
So we will have that also in the packet.
If she goes back
and they decided to do something different that's less,
it can still be heard in January.
If they wanted something that was different
and would need reposting,
odds are it won't be able to come back in January.
That's what I really wanted to say is that depending if,
if they change anything, it may not be able to be heard at
that time and wanna let you know too. No.
So if we change,
Okay, so if if it's less than what's requested
now we can move forward.
Okay. So,
So basically if we fit within the variances of what
ordinances are currently, we wouldn't have to come back
or we would still have to come back.
And
To get the EMC greater than eight feet, you will have
to come back or eight and a quarter.
I don't know. Some odd number. I
Think, I think 25% is about 19 square foot.
I think 25% of 35 feet is
8.6.
Six six. If, if someone wants to check the math on that,
Close enough.
Okay, so what was the 75 square foot
Then? That's what's
allowed with a setback equal to the height
and um, a ground sign.
So it would have to be equal setback that way.
What was approved. And
that's why we gotta get that part too.
So, so it sounds that basically, you know,
if we postpone this then you could work with Steve,
get all those details ironed out.
Yes. And receive it back on in January.
I would say probably a date to be determined
because if it needs to be reposted, we can't do it.
No, it won't have to be reposted right now, as long
as it falls within this or less.
Okay. So,
and I know the property owner did come in asking about it
and everything, so I know he's in a little
or not the property owner, the, uh, tenant was, was pushing.
So I know he wants to move forward on that. So
I have a quick question. Since you're
up there. What would the sign be without the
LED without the LED display?
Just a circle, ground loud cannabis sign Without the
LED. How big would that be?
I'm not sure. Did you do that ke It might be in there
That fall within, I might have
that in my file actually when I did the background.
Hold on. See if I have the ordinances in here.
What,
Um, it was 65.
So without the reader board,
it was 75 square foot brown signed.
And then that five foot height, um, is
what would be allowed without that reader board on there
from your ordinances.
So without the LED it would be 75 square feet,
Correct? Yes.
You're asking what the actual sign
Sign is? Yeah, just like, I
mean, eliminate the LED
and just put a round loud cannabis sign on the lawn.
That's all I'm suggesting.
I don't know what that size is.
I'm looking at this. Um, I guess
We can Round sign it's 72 square feet.
So it'd be this the area of a circle at
Yeah. 6 36.
Yeah, the circle's 60 square foot as a circle.
Um, I don't know how you guys calculate it,
but he's asking though,
what would be allowed without having to
Read or report that he's not asking what would be allowed.
He's asking what size would that round?
Just the circle? No, LED. Oh,
Just the circle. Just the circle.
No, LED.
It's 60 square five.
It'd be the circle. Yeah.
I don't know how if you, if that's the, a direct the circle.
I don't know if you guys calculate
yours at the city of Warren.
Some calculate it as exact dimension.
Some calculate it as a square.
I mean, I might be able to get behind that.
I just don't think we, I'm, I can't get
behind any kinda LED reader board.
25%, 40%, 80%. I don't care percent.
There's just no percent Mr. All yield board. Mr.
Chairman? Yes. Mr. Sefa.
As I've indicated earlier, I, from the comments tonight,
I think it would help the petitioner if we voted on item one
and if we postpone the other two items,
I would make a motion for that.
Uh, we could do that.
Make a motion to separate the items and then
To make a motion to separate items.
Item one from item two and three.
I'll support that. So
We have a motion by Mr.
SFA and support by Mr.
Jersey to separate item one,
which is the wall sign from items two
and three so that we could vote on him separately.
All in favor? Or do we do a roll
Call? Roll call, vote or
For separating it Ma'am? Attorney? No vote on that.
Let's do a roll call. Just roll call on the sixth.
And Mr. Aya? Yes.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes. Mr. Perry? Yes. Mr. Ser?
Yes. Mr. Cliff? Yes. Mr. Green? Yes.
Mr. Watts? No. Mr. Lindsay? Yes. And Chairman Starve?
Uh, yes. Okay. So that separates the two items.
So if you want to make a motion on item one,
I'll make a motion. I'd like
to make a motion to grant permission
to install a 50 point,
a 50.27 square foot wall sign on the west elevation.
And a 50.27 square foot wall sign on the north elevation
for a total of 100.54 square feet of wall side signage.
Due to the size and shape of the lot, it's on a detriment
to the area and it's necessary
Support.
So you have a motion by Mr. Aya.
Support by Mr. Perry to approve item one
for the reasons stated in a motion.
Mr. Aya? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes.
For the reason stated in a motion Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reasons stated
In the motion. Mr. Watts?
No, I Think it's too much signage. Mr. Lindsay?
No, it's a detriment and it's not necessary.
Mr. Jersey votes Yes. For a reason.
Stated in motion Chairman Esteve
I vote yes for reason.
Stated in motion. So your item number one on the wall
of signs has been approved by us.
Okay, thank you. Appreciate that. Motion to
Postpone? Yeah, I'd like to make a
motion to postpone item, uh,
two and three. I'll just leave it
Over January for January report.
January 14th to
January 14th, 2026.
2026 Support. So you have a motion by Mr. Aya.
Support by Mr. Assessor to postpone items two
and three to January 14th meeting 2026.
Um, roll call. Vote.
Um, Mr. Aya? Yes.
Mr. Assessor? Yes.
Mr. Perry? Yes. Mr. Cliff? Yes. To postpone
Mr. Green? Yes.
Mr. Watts? Yes. Mr. Lindsay? No.
To postpone Mr. Jersey Votes Yes.
To postpone chairman starch?
Uh, yes. So items two and three have until January 14th.
Thank you. We can figure that out. Thank
You. And I'll get with Steve
and Brian
and we can get that background figured out
and have that all pulled
together and then get with a client.
So thank you. I appreciate that.
Excellent. Thank you. So it takes us
to 13 A
Takes us to item 13 a applicant.
Hector Leon, representative Hector Leon.
Kevin description, 1, 4, 6, 6 8.
Alger appearance has requested permission
to one retain 54 inch, 54 inches of driveway widen
beyond the east garage building line,
and 48 inches beyond the west garage building line
for an overall driveway width of 28 feet.
Two retained 30 feet, six inches
by 18 feet plus 10 feet by 10 feet,
649 square foot gazebo attached to the house in addition
to a 10 foot by 10 foot, 100 square foot shed
and 410 square feet attached garage for a total
of 1,159 square feet of accessory floor structure area.
And three, waive the required rat wall for the gazebo.
And I don't see any petitioner in the
audience for this item.
Mr. Chairman? Yes, Mr. Sfa.
I kind have a simple rule at these no call, no show,
no bearings, but that's just me.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Perry.
I, I Or chair Mr. Watt?
I I would, I would agree.
Um, my problem is when I read this, um,
the application him,
he said he didn't realize there was permit request needed
to put a shed up to put a fence up
to widen his driveway
and basically put a roof over his whole backyard.
And I drove by there two, three times. It is hideous.
I just, I don't buy the story that, um, he didn't know
that and then he didn't show up tonight.
Just sticks in my craw. I just,
I, You know, I i I would make, I would, uh,
if any, I'll wait to see if anybody else got any comments,
but I would make a motion to deny
Mr. Chair. Um, yes,
Mr. I kind of, I echo the same sentiments
of my other two colleagues.
Um, the only problem is we've kinda set a dangerous
precedent, you know, postponing the other one tonight, um,
to allow 'em to, to, to reappear.
So to me,
if we're playing by the same rules, I mean,
if we're gonna stick to one thing to deny people,
if we're not showing up, we should just do it across the
board consistently.
But since we've already kind of had one tonight,
that was a no show and we've postponed it for a later move,
I feel like if we didn't do this, it opens us up
for maybe some litigation if we,
if we didn't postpone this one.
That's just my opinion.
I could be wrong, but I mean, I'm just
Personally, I think they're different. But
Mr. Chair,
yes, Mr. Green.
I personally, since I've, the first day I've sat in here,
have wondered why we postpone items
when people don't show up.
And I think it's, I think maybe it's time to turn, turn
that corner, start moving on items
or they start to back up and it becomes an issue.
And this item is a perfect example of,
and this, this is not a different thought.
So we're gonna take this item and vote no on it.
Let's say, so you drive over there like we did,
and you see this, whatever, it's,
you got this whole backyard covered by a gazebo, the
driveway being widened, that we've, I think established
that we're not gonna happen anymore.
But what happens is when we deny this,
we don't see anything anymore.
We'll never hear about it again.
And then you'll drive by it in six months.
This is getting frustrating.
We'll drive by it in six months
and you'll see it.
And what's happened is,
and this is just my personal opinion, we sit up here
and every, every meeting we have, someone makes a comment.
That's not what we're here for.
Well, I got bad news for everybody.
We sit here every single meeting
and listen to how things get up here
that shouldn't be up here.
They're not ready to be up here.
We hear about the problems with enforcement,
how it's obviously not a a, a focus of the administration.
And we know there's not enough people to do the enforcement
because of hiring and stuff like that.
And we, and we, we say the same thing every single week.
And things get up here.
And it's sometimes we say, that's not
what we're supposed to be doing.
What we're supposed to be doing is protecting the citizens
of the city of Warren
and trying to make the city of Warren a better place.
So if somebody comes up here
and their backyard is a pigsty, somebody's living next door
to that guy and they're counting on somebody,
somebody in this whole process to say, no,
it's not gonna happen under my watch.
So we need to really start to think about that
and maybe give it more thought than we're giving it,
because we're, we're the end of the rope for some people.
So if you live next door to that
and the ZBA says, sure, go ahead.
You've just lost confidence in the city of Warren.
We're here for the people born and for the city of Warren.
That's it. So that's my comment.
Motion to deny support. Reasons.
Reasons, um, reason is it's a detriment to the area.
Um, it's too much build in the backyard,
too much space Support.
So We have a motion to deny by Mr. Watson in support
by Mr. Lindsey.
I
Mr. Watts?
Yes. To deny Mr. Lindsay Yes.
To deny for the reason stating of the motion.
Mr. Green. Yes. To
Deny Mr. Cliff.
Yes. To deny Mr. Assessor.
Yes. To deny for the reason stated of the
Motion. Mr. Perry.
Yes. To deny for the rein state of the motion.
Mr. Chair or Mr. Sfa? Sorry. Yes.
To deny for the rein stated in the motion. Mr. Jersey votes.
Yes. For to deny for the rein State of the motion.
Chairman of Stevi.
I will also vote yes. Yes.
To deny for a reason to state in a motion. Thanks Alion.
Number 14, which is new business.
And I just want to, under new business, I want to wish
and entire board and staff
of the zoning building department a very happy holiday.
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Christmas. Mery Christmas.
Merry Christmas and happy holidays to everybody. Mr.
Chairman? Yes. Mr. Cliff.
Um, I was just curious, in that one packet that we had
with all them stellar photographs of the blight,
what department did them come from?
Do we know? Is that, is that the property maintenance?
That's property maintenance.
So I'm just curious if, uh,
maybe through the chair we can't have a letter sent over
to property maintenance
to maybe include those in every packet that we look at.
'cause I think the more information we have, the better.
There was a reason it was stuck in with that one.
And I think that same exact reason that it was stuck in with
that one is the reason that they should be stuck in
with each one that we hear.
Is that a motion? So is that, was that, is
that a motion added because we had those
or that they didn't takeouts?
Um, You gotta quit dragging your feet
on a carpet down there.
Uh, it was a recent enforcement
and the departments are talking a lot more.
Uh, I don't know if it would make sense to
probably have to get administration
to sign off on them going out
and taking pictures of every property that comes
before you. Nope. That's what the reason,
That's not, that's not what I said.
If, if it was something that's active
And I, if they have something active and ongoing
At that point, that I think that that should be a box
to be checked on somebody's list of
what goes in these packets.
Current enforcements from here,
current enforcements. From there
I will run it up the food chain and go from there.
Because it will take a sign off from both administrators.
Uh, for us it would be a simple letter going to the
property maintenance department,
asking if they have anything on that,
and then waiting for their reply.
If they don't reply, we wouldn't have it.
Even if there was current enforcement.
So I couldn't go from there.
But we gotta get the sign-offs and go from there.
So it probably won't happen.
If it happens, it probably won't happen
until probably March.
'cause January would be out Feb, maybe February.
Maybe we can discuss that at the, the,
the group, group meeting.
And maybe I'll see if I can get the property maintenance,
uh, chief Code Enforcement officer at that meeting as well.
'cause along with that, I just, it just boggles my mind
that here in Warren that we allow things to come up
before us when there's a litany
of issues ongoing under enforcement that just, I,
I have a hard time believing that that's, that
that's been overlooked in this process.
Maybe at one point in time it wasn't an issue.
I'm hoping that that's the case,
but apparently some times have changed
and things are a little different now. Or
I, I will, I'll ask the city attorney to look into that.
But I, I know the only thing zoning can deny for No,
No, I understand. Is
that I understand that. So I'm, I'm going back.
My message is to the administration if
Well, we may have to change the zoning ordinance Exactly.
And make sure that it doesn't conflict
with the zoning enabling.
And I would ask the city attorney to look into that portion.
I think it's worth looking at. And she's
nodding an agreement. So
I think that's all worth looking at.
I mean, um,
this is a different board from when I
first started sitting here.
And I think we're moving in the right
direction with a lot of things.
Now we're hamstrung by ordinances that are out of date
and they're old and they don't fit anymore.
And the amount of time that this board spends
reviewing and discussing items that come
before us could probably be significantly reduced
if the administration took as much time and effort
and put into revising some of the ordinances.
That's, that's the only point I wanted to make.
I want to wish everybody a merry Christmas
too. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It would, it'll also be nice, Steve,
while you're up there, if, if you run it up the food chain
as you call it, that you could get back with us
and tell us where it stops on the food chain so
that when we talk to people,
I may not know that. So that,
So that you'll know it so you'll know it.
So when you talk to people, you can, we can let them know
what part of the food stand just, just stopped at.
Because if it's not a focus
of the administration, that's all fine.
And Danny, they're the administration.
But it would be nice to know that
If I know that and to report
that, I will. You'll, you'll know.
Yeah. And if I can just add one more item.
I wanted to remind everybody that in January in our schedule
for next month, uh, for next year, uh, the start time
of these meetings at seven as opposed to seven 30,
wanna make sure everybody was aware.
Just a reminder
how any other new business takes us.
Item number 15, which is adjournment.
Motion to adjourn.
Support. Support. We have motion by Mr. Cliff.
Support by Mr. Perry. All in favor? Aye. Aye.
Meeting adjourned at 9 8 9 19.