Flag of the United States of America
and to the republic, which it stands.
One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty
and justice sprawl.
Roll call. Commissioner Ansar present.
Commissioner Zay Present. Commissioner Hollow Present.
Commissioner Hawk Present. Commissioner Maury is present.
Commissioner Beki present. Commissioner Smith.
Present. We have a quo, uh, approval of the agenda.
Motion to approve Maury Chair. I second a motion
There. A motion by
Commissioner Moy, supported
by Commissioner Hollow Wadi.
All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Approve of the minutes.
December 15th, 2025.
Motion to approve Maury A
Chair. I second that
motion
As a motion by Commissioner Maury.
So supported by Commissioner Awadi. All in favor? Aye.
Any opposed? Item number six, public hearing items.
Um, I don't see our ex officials here today.
So item number six a
I'm number six. A
site plan for a convenience store
with gas station located on the northeast corner
of Mount N 13 Mile Roads 3 1 1 0 4 Mount Road section four.
Michael Wigan
and Gazebo Real Estate,
Josh Breton And agree convenience non one
L-L-C-P-S-P 2 5 0 0 5 0.
Postponed from December 15th, 2025. Thank you.
Thank you Madam Secretary. Petitioner here this evening.
Can you come up and tell us a little bit about the project?
Can you check and see if the light's on on
your mic, sir? It's not working
It on.
Oh, sorry. I think I hit the button. Try it now.
It's on. Alright, very good. Sorry about that.
No problem. So we did have a presentation
that was previously provided to the Planning Commission.
My name's Josh Bratton.
Address is 3 2 3 0 1 Woodward Avenue, Royal Oak.
Um, happy New Year. Thank you all for coming.
We, uh, we're excited to show some of the enhancements
for the project and think the commission will be pleased.
Um, you know,
before I go through the presentation, as you know,
through the different projects
that been we've been working on in Warren Speedway's,
been investing in the Warren community for over 50 years.
You know, we want to continue to invest in the community
by revitalizing our brand, bringing this modern prototype
and enhanced, uh, customer experience to the area.
Now this will be a $9 million investment,
which would be in addition to the $18 million.
Um, we're investing
through two other projects in the city of Warren this year.
Now, while I wanted to mention
that while there are other gas stations on Mound Road, uh,
there is no Speedway servicing the
Mound Corridor from 6 96 all the way to Hall Road,
which is over 70,000 cars
and one of the highest trafficked corridors
in the metro Detroit area.
Now Speedway has a, an exclusive unique product assortment
and offering to provide the community with a strand, uh,
strong brand loyalty.
Um, at last month's public hearing,
some property owners spoke out
with some concerns about the project.
The owner, Michael, and myself, have reached out to, uh,
the opposing parties and also held a call with, uh,
Lloyd Brown and his team who owns the property to the North
to go over this presentation and to gain feedback
and provide, uh, look for suggestions of
how he could alleviate some of his concerns,
including fencing, some additional landscape buffering,
but no requests were made other than
just the change of the use.
Is there a, uh, clicker for the, let me know.
Uh, you can go to the next slide.
So, a couple of things to go over.
We're just gonna go over quickly the site plan,
the truck route plan, landscaping, some exterior
and interior renderings.
Um, our traffic engineer Robert Macco, will speak
to the results of the traffic impact study.
And then following that, our attorney, pat Lennon,
will speak to the legal, legal standards of the project.
So first up on the site plan,
you'll see this is a 4,800 square foot free standing
speedway with six fuel dispensers.
The property zoned M two, as you know,
is a permitted use in the, in the city ordinance, uh,
of what we're proposing.
All surrounding property is zoned M two, with the exception
of the property to the west, which is C two and P.
Uh, the site plan meets all ordinances requirements
and addresses all of the planning staff's comments
who recommended approval today?
No variances are required. We exceed parking requirements.
We're maintaining the right in, right out, uh,
access point on Mo Mound Road, which is governed
by McComb County Road Commission.
Their only comment was to maintain a 30 foot width
for the driveway, which we did.
We are adding a right in, right out on 13 mile.
The city asked that the traffic study be completed
to confirm that there is no queuing along 13
mile with this entrance.
Uh, we will get into that in more detail,
but we confirmed that that is not an issue.
Next slide. You can see in the truck, the truck route plan.
Uh, one more up.
So the fuel truck
and the, the trash truck will both enter the site on,
on Mound Road and exit on 13 mile
and then be able to turn there at the traffic signal.
Next slide. So if you look at the landscaping plan,
a few things to point out.
Uh, we're providing a full landscaping buffer to con
to obstruct the property.
All the, on the entirety of both, uh, fronting roads,
we're actually increasing the green space by 134%.
We've added a feature on the intersection,
which is a shaded walkway bench garden area,
and we're increasing the tree count by 57%.
There's also a total of nearly 200 shrubs on the property
if this exceeds the city's landscape ordinance requirements.
And it's just a massive improvement
to the landscaping of the the project.
You can flip through these rather quickly,
but these are some exterior renderings we put together
to give a better visual of
what this property will look like.
You keep going, there's the feature on the intersection
and one, the next one is a quick video of the rendering.
So similar to the other two projects we're building in
Warren this year, this is the brand new 2025 prototype.
You can see there's contemporary modern finishes on the
exterior, including masonry nee Nietzsche paneling with, uh,
wood finish and some steel paneling as well.
You could go to the next slide And if you don't
mind clicking the, uh, image to the right,
that's also a quick video.
So same prototype as some of the previous projects.
You can see there's a state-of-the-art, food
and beverage station, large focus on fresh made foods
and warm, ready to pick up foods.
You can go to the next slide.
So Robert will come
and speak to the results in more
detail of the traffic study.
But, uh, just one mention we're maintaining, uh, level
of service B for reference.
Uh, 14 and Ryan project was approved at
a, um, level of service.
D Um, and again, the, you know, the, the proposed design
and access was approved
by the County Road Commission who governs the road.
Um, they did not require a traffic study,
but we completed one based on the
recommendation of planning staff.
Uh, Robert can come up now
and speak to the results of the traffic study.
Good evening, Robert Matco, Robert Matco, CESO,
and located at 1 3 0 6 0 South Highway US 27.
And that is in Lansing, Michigan.
Again, good evening chairman members. Good evening.
I'm sorry. Good evening. Good evening.
Yeah, I'd like to just briefly walk us through some
of the traffic on this, uh, project
and just point out some specific key items, uh, specifically
with this site and how it is laid out with relation
to both Mound and 13 Mile Road.
Essentially, the site driveways operate as right
and right out due to the, uh, medians on, on both, uh,
drive, uh, both roadways.
So again, we're dealing with right in, right out driveways.
So, uh, that just to start is, is a key
for this type of site.
We don't have any left turn movements, uh, from the site
or into the site.
Moving along, uh, we,
another, another key point of the site is
with this being a c-store development, uh, many of these,
uh, stores that operate like this are to,
are basically not necessarily a traffic generator,
but what they will do is pull traffic off
of the existing street system.
So in other words, they're, uh, very big on pass by trips,
so they're not necessarily a destination.
So if you're traveling on Mound
or you're traveling on 13 Mile Road,
you might look down at your gas gauge
and go, oh, you know, I'm running outta gas.
I need to stop, you know, at a gas station.
Oh, you know, we like,
I like speedways where there's a speedway.
I'll stop there. Uh, so again, it's a, it's a big pass
by trip generator.
So primary trips only result in about 24 to 25%
of the overall traffic of the site.
I'd like to point that out also, like to point out at Mound
and 13, uh,
and in discussions also with the Road Commission,
there were prior improvements that were done at
that intersection within the last few years with the, uh,
signal upgrades that were done.
Uh, when we analyzed the intersection, we did find
that the intersection does operate at a BS
and Boy level service,
which is like a letter grade in school.
Um, and I think the main reason for that again, is, uh, many
of those left turns are removed from the intersection
and they occur either further north, um, or east or west
or south of the intersection.
Another key item, uh, I, I guess the big item
of this study, and probably one
of the reasons the city wanted us
to look at a traffic impact study is specifically the, uh,
queue in, on the east leg of the intersection.
As it acute, uh, would queue to the East.
There were concerns over whether that, uh,
site driveway would be blocked.
Now the site driveway on Mound Road is north
of the intersection, so there is really no Q length
that would cause any concerns with that, uh,
site driveway on Mound Road.
So again, that leads us
to the site driveway on 13 Mile Road.
So, uh, we did do traffic counts out there,
and you might hear during public, uh,
opposition if there are any, uh,
people here in opposition to the projects.
When, when the count was done, uh,
the count was actually done on a Tuesday
and into Wednesday on November 4th of this past year.
Um, you might hear,
and again, we're being proactive on this,
you might hear tonight, well, you know,
that's a problem with the study.
Uh, you know, GM wasn't in service and, and whatnot.
We went as a step further and we looked at this.
If you go to the next slide, again, being proactive,
we actually were able to find, uh, a recent count.
This is on, on MDOs site as well,
and it was taken on 13 Mile Road
and it was taken, uh, December,
I believe it was December 14th, 2024.
So less than a year from when our traffic count was done.
And actually the traffic in the westbound direction on the
east leg of 13 Mile Road was about 30 to 40
total vehicles less than the count that was done.
So we feel our study is accurate in that respect.
We even took it one step further to show
that the queue would not be an issue, and we took that count
or the volumes on 13 Mile Road in the westbound direction,
and we increased it by 25%.
So not only did our count was higher than the count
that was done less than a year ago, we went ahead and,
and took the count and upped it by 25% just
to make sure there were no concerns.
Well, you know, you missed this amount of traffic
or you missed that amount of traffic.
So we ran that through, um, our capacity analysis
and looked at the Q lengths.
And the Q lengths resulted in less than an additional 10
feet of, of, of storage space.
So we're still about a hundred
and 130 feet vehicle queue in the, uh,
queuing back towards the site driveway.
And the site driveway is about 210 feet
back from the stop bar to the site driveway.
So we do feel this site will operate
specifically the 13 mile road site driveway will operate
and function properly as well.
I believe we do have a video too.
I'm not sure if that would be the next slide,
but we do have a, a video showing the synchro analysis
and the Q lengths.
So again, if, if, if you hit the, the space bar,
it might show the video.
There we go. So this just shows again, uh,
maybe if you click on it, it'll just start the video up.
Oh, maybe not.
All right. So we may not have a video,
but that video clearly shows that, uh,
the 95th percentile Q length, which is the, uh,
more substantial, uh, Q length,
that's basically the maximum Q length in that direction
would be less than a, substantially less than a distance of
where the site driveway is.
And it, and you could see it is running now.
So if you pay attention to that east leg
and you can see some of the vehicles, um,
we have this running actually at four times the speed.
So this isn't actually the speed of the traffic,
but, uh, it's just two to time requirements here.
We, we expedited the speed of the video,
but again, just pay attention to that east leg
and you can see where the queue,
it never really queues up even close to
where the site driveway is.
And we did look at the worst case scenario was the
weekday PM peak hour.
Um, the AM peak hour does have some heavy volumes on Mound
Road in the a, uh, specifically southbound in the am.
Uh, but the PM peak hour really resulted in the worst, uh,
levels of service and the worst, uh, traffic conditions.
So we really tried to focus on, on that in terms of, uh,
you know, just coming up with, uh, with this additional
video here to show you tonight.
And with that, uh, you know, again, maybe, we'll, we will go
to the first slide and then I'll turn it back over
and be able to answer any questions that you may have
for me or my team this evening.
But, uh, thank you for your time.
Thank you, sir. Cool video.
Hadn't seen one of those before. Uh, good evening.
My name's Pat Lennon. I'm an attorney with the Haman firm.
Uh, I represent the applicant tonight with respect
to their application for site plan approval.
Uh, first I'd like to address a little housekeeping.
Uh, we just wanna make sure that the record is, is complete.
And with respect to that, it should include, um,
a letter from our firm to the,
to the planning commission dated January 7th, 2026.
Uh, the site plan application, the site plan itself,
the landscape plan, the photometric plan, the survey,
the floor plan, building elevation and traffic impact study,
and also the pre the, uh, presentation deck
that was presented tonight.
Um, just a little housekeeping there,
making sure that's all there.
And if anyone doesn't have any of those things,
please let me know and we will bring them right to you.
Um, I believe several of you know me,
although it's been a while since I've been here.
I certainly have a long history with Ron
and Mary, um, uh, over the years,
and I think I may have mentioned to Mary in all of my years
as a lawyer doing this, over 30 of them now, uh,
I can't remember ever appearing to represent an applicant
with respect to a site plan approval re um, request.
Um, and why is that? Well, the answer's simple.
Um, site plan approval applications, uh, with respect
to per permitted uses are considered by right
or by legal, right?
And so what that means is, you know,
in our view from a legal perspective is they can't be denied
unless if it meets the ordinance, unless there's competent
and material evidence
that the site plan doesn't comply with the ordinance.
As a result, lawyers aren't usually needed for these types
of inquiries because the planning department will typically
look at something, advise the planning commission
or the city council, whatever the case may be, that
the requirements are satisfied.
And that's usually, uh, the end of the analysis.
Uh, and in our view in this case, the record
as I've described, it shows
that the site plan not only satisfies,
it exceeds the ordinance requirements.
So let me explain how, uh, first it's not disputed
that the proposed uses of permitted use, uh,
the city council's decision to make the permitted use
or this use they permitted use was an exercise
of its legislative authority.
This is essentially the process where the city decides
what uses can be established on what properties.
In this case, the city council has broad discretion when
making legislative determinations with respect to
how a property can be used as they've done here.
I mentioned this to emphasize the point that in this case,
the decision has been made
that a gas station can go on this site.
Uh, you know, it can be regulated, it can be,
there can be conditions, there can be things like that.
We know certain project opponents simply don't want it,
that, that, but that decision, in our view,
has already been made by your city council when this
property received its zoning.
Next, the planning commission is responsible
for confirming whether or not the requirements applicable
to the site plan approval have been satisfied.
This is considered an exercise
of the city's administrative authority,
and it's a binary analysis.
If the requirements are satisfied,
the planning commission is legally obligated
to approve the site plan.
Now, as I mentioned before,
and as I'm sure your lawyer will tell you, this is not
to say the planning commission does not have some discretion
to provide comments and impose conditions,
but those comments and conditions can't render the property
useless for the permitted use.
It can't be, they can't be so strong as
to eliminate the permitted use.
That's our view of the legal requirement.
And then in this ministerial role
or administrative role was confirmed in the well-known case
of Hesse Real Realty, v Ann Arbor 61 Mishap three 19,
which was decided way back in 1975.
HESI held that once the applicant shows
that it meets the site plan approval standards
of the ordinance, the approval must be granted In Hessi,
the city's review departments recommended approval just
as they have here, but the city's decision making
body denied it.
Well, in that case, the city failed
to provide competent material evidence as
to why the site plan did not comply,
and as a result, the city's decision was overturned.
Beyond that, the obligation
to approve confirming site plans has been codified in
section 5 0 1 5 of the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act.
This, this requirement is specifically addressed
and it states a site plan shall
be approved if it contains the information required
by the zoning ordinance and in compliance
with the conditions imposed under the zoning ordinance.
Other statutorily authorized
and properly adopted local unit of government
planning documents, other applicable ordinances and state
and federal statutes.
So what does this all mean?
Well, in our view, this means
what I think we've been saying since the very beginning.
The site plan has been carefully designed
to satisfy all the requirements of the ordinance.
We aren't asking for any variances.
We aren't asking for any waivers or relief.
Uh, the planning department has agreed with us that it,
that it satisfies those requirements
and it is recommended approval.
Uh, so in our view, uh, this particular app application, uh,
should be approved and is legally entitled to approval.
But I, but I view, but I wanna say there's even more here
because what you've seen just presented is a very, I think,
thorough, incredible traffic study that demonstrates
that really the primary concern that was raised
by this planning commission in their meeting in December,
we think has been more than addressed.
This property clearly does not pose a negative traffic
impact in this particular area.
Um, at least not in our view.
We also don't see
how this will negatively impact any adjacent properties.
Not that that's necessarily a, a requirement
because we more than meet the setbacks more than meet
the landscaping requirements.
We've done lighting plans, et cetera.
So the boxes have been checked,
and we believe that, that this, um, uh, property should be,
uh, granted an approval.
Um, finally, uh, we know that there have been some requests
to review studies, uh,
and that there may be requests for more time so
that more people can review studies.
Uh, we've heard this raised by project's opponents.
We wanna point out that we disagree with that position.
Uh, the city's responsible
for determining whether a site plan satisfies the ordinance,
and it is the body that is entitled to the information.
There is not and has never been a requirement
that application information be
provided to project opponents.
Um, the notion that the applicant should send its studies
and analysis to project opponents ignores the fact
that first, these are expensive and proprietary studies
and documents, so we don't necessarily want them getting
forwarded around after they're given to them.
Second, some of them may contain confidential information,
and third, it's expensive and burdensome.
So we don't think that that should be an obligation
of the applicant or that it should show down the process.
And this is particularly true when all they have
to do is go down to the city and look at it,
and we advise them that they could do that.
And I believe the city advised them that they could do that.
And then finally, one last legal point,
and this is a separate legal argument, but it may
or may not become applicable here.
As you consider this application, you need
to also consider the fact that, um, you,
you are applying your standards not only to this,
but you need to apply them fairly
and equally among other similar uses.
So the extent that you've looked at other similar uses
or the same use in your
city over the past recent history, those, those,
those criteria should be applied fairly
and uniformly and in the same manner.
And I know you know that, but I,
but I feel like I should just, uh, add
that since I'm up here and, and at the end of the day
and I'll, I'll wrap up and you can ask me
or any of any else, any further questions.
We continue to be open to your comments.
As you heard, we reached out
to the neighbor who's against the project
and said, is there something we can do along the boundaries?
Is there something that we can do?
You know, and there wasn't any real desire to discuss any
of those things, but that doesn't mean
we still aren't open to it.
You, you all know the landowner.
He's a good guy, very nice guy, and, and,
and wants to work with people, and so do we.
So with that spirit in mind, uh, we look forward
to continuing this con conversation with you,
and we hope you approve our application tonight.
Thank you. Thank you,
Sir. Uh,
correspondence,
Correspondence, taxes,
current engineering preliminary review
of this site indicates that planning commission approval
should be contingent upon the petitioner's compliance
with the following conditions.
Number one, Macomb County Department of Roads approval
and permit are required for work in Mount Road right away.
Number two on Mount Road right away.
Macomb County Department
of Roads allows the maximum 30 feet back of curb to back
of curb width for the proposed drive approach
at the property line.
Similarly, the city
of Warren allows the maximum 30 feet back of curb to back
of curb width on 13 mile right away.
Number three, all the existing
and proposed utilities within the vicinity
of the project limits along the material
size should be shown Comcast.
In response to your utility request for the above project,
please refer to the ACH map for the location of Comcast,
CATV and fiber facilities.
Aerial cables are highlighted in orange for fiber
and yellow for Coke's.
Cable underground is highlighted in blue for fiber
and green for Coke's cable.
If we can be of further assistance, please feel free
to contact us by email at
CCC utility request@teamsigma.com.
MCDR Macomb County Departments of Department
of Roads has received
and reviewed the enclosed preliminary plan for the
above reference site.
MCDR has the following objection
to the proposed development at the
above mentioned site number one
MCDR allows only 30 feet back of curb BC to back
of curb with entrance approach in Mc D's Road right away,
verify and revise the Mount Road entrance.
If you have any questions, please feel free
to contact me at the phone number
above
(586) 463-8671. Thank you.
Thanks Madam Secretary.
Planning Department's recommendation.
Okay, Thank you Mr. Chair.
The recommendation is as follows, it is recommended
that the site plan for a new Speedway gas station
and convenience store with six dispenser auto
canopy be approved, uh, with the standard conditions of the,
the, uh, planning commission
and more specifically, number one, five copies
of revised site plans shall be submitted
indicating the following.
Uh, a, uh, dimensions
and bar bearings shall be, uh,
provided along the perimeter of the parcel on the site plan.
Uh, one B, provide the length
and width, uh, dimensions for the convenience store
and canopy on the site.
Plan one C.
The, uh, property in question is, uh, 1.55 acres
a storm water narrative, uh, explaining
how the site will comply with the city's storm water
ordinance shall be required as the site plan, uh,
indicates the disturbance is over one acre.
That's the whole site.
1D uh, add the, uh, acreage of disturbance,
which is 1.15 acres on the site plan
one E the, uh, parking spaces around the, uh, building.
Shell measure 20 feet in length as measured from the edge
of the bollards.
Uh, provide the parking space dimension from the bollards.
Uh, provide the dimensions for the adjacent,
uh, maneuvering lanes.
One f uh, trash enclosure
and attached shed indicated, uh,
on the site plan is larger than the typical trash area.
The planning, uh, commission shall approve the
modified trash, uh, enclosure
and shed area measuring approximately 35.33 feet
by 11 feet.
11.46 feet,
and containing 405 square feet
indicate the material and construction
of the proposed trash enclosure
and attached shed on the site
plant one G.
Uh, the planning staff, uh, communicated
with relative representatives, uh, for the proposal
regarding the hard surfaced turnaround pad, uh,
needed for trucks servicing the trash dumpster.
Uh, the area would be constructed approximately 40 feet
south of the enclosure
and located in the east side yard area of the property.
The general width, uh, would be approximately 20 feet,
no variances are required.
Condition number two, uh, two copies
of revised floor plans shall be
provided indicating the following label,
the outdoor retail, uh, sales area
that's west side of the building.
It appears that, uh,
there may be additional outdoor retail sales
locations on the floor.
Plan that, uh, on the floor plan,
then labeled on the site plan, the floor plan
and the site plan sales areas, uh,
shall match condition.
Number three, two copies of revised lighting plans shall be
provided, indicating the following.
There are areas, uh, along the property boundary
where the proposed lighting is greater than 0.0,
update the shielding for the proposed light fixtures so
that the light covers only the property
and does not encroach upon buting properties condition.
Number four, two copies of revised, uh, uh,
landscape plans shall be provided indicating the following.
Burning bush is an invasive species and is on the green.
McComb do not plant list
instead of burning bush.
Some possible options are arrow wood for Burnham, bush,
honeysuckle, sweet spire,
or hydrangeas condition.
Number five, permits shall be required from the Macomb
County Department of Roads for work, uh, in the mound road,
right of way permits shall be required from the city
of Warren Engineering division for the work
in the 13 mile road right of way per Mc D's
comments, uh, the driveway cannot exceed 30 feet in width
back to curb back bc uh, to back to curb,
uh, in mc DDRs, uh,
road right of way.
That's ROW. Uh, the petitioner shall contact, uh,
MCDR to discuss the driveway with.
And finally, uh, condition number six,
a performance bond in the amount of, uh, $258,000
shall be posted according to the estimated cost of, uh,
$8,600,000 by the petitioner.
And so, uh, with that, there's also a note,
the planning staff recommends a reduction in the bond
in the amount of $158,000.
So with that, Mr. Chair,
the recommendation is submitted. Thank
You. Thank you, Mr. Wirth.
This is a public hearing, but
before we, if you wanna come
and speak on this item, you come up, state your name
and address for the record, and you'll have three minutes
to speak, but I think we have one on Zoom that would like
to speak, and we'll allow them to go first.
Hello? Can you hear me? Yes. Good evening.
Hi, good evening, and thank you Chair Smith
and members of the commission for the opportunity
to provide remarks at this meeting.
On behalf of General Motors, um, my name is Carrie Hatcher
and I'm the senior manager for local Government affairs.
And I look forward to working with all of you.
As you may be aware, general Motors Tech Center is adjacent
to the proposed gas station at 13 Mile Road and Mound.
We understand how important this project is to the city.
However, the General Motors Technical Center has concerns
about the project due to safety issues it may create
that could impact our 20,000 employees at the HEC Center
and the surrounding community.
We ask that these concerns are fully examined prior
to any plans being approved.
We ask the commission to delay action on this issue
until a complete traffic study is finished, reviewed,
and any potential fixes are incorporated.
We ask for special scrutiny
and deliberation on the county's access decisions, including
driveway spacing and design,
which should be accurately reflected on updated drawings.
If access changes, the traffic
and circulation should be reviewed for impact assessments.
As you are aware, gas station traffic add quick trips
and tricky turns that could worsen congestion, cause cues
and raise crash risks.
General Motors request the commission postpone action on
this until the following issues are reviewed
and shown on revised sign plans,
a complete staff accepted traffic study covering level
of service turns, cues, crash history,
and specific fixes if needed, final access decisions
and permits from the county
and MO if applicable, with all changes shown on the plans
and in the traffic analysis, access and operations to limit
and consolidate driveways, add, write in, write out
or channelization where needed,
restrict left turns at peaks if needed.
Ban fuel deliveries during commuter and school rushes
and require county slash m access permits
and city acceptance of the traffic study
and fix this before permits.
Thank you for the opportunity to represent GM's concerns
and for your consideration.
Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Have a good evening. Thank
You. Before
we get into the public hearing, I would like to
recognize our ex official Councilwoman McGee.
You're leaving, ma'am. Okay. Okay. Can
I quickly respond to that if by
Chance, um, comments?
Well, you'll, you'll have a chance to respond. Okay.
I just wanted to state our study.
Does this, this, you'll have right
chance, chance to respond.
Right now it's a public hearing,
so we're gonna let the public come up
and say what they have to say and then we'll go from there.
I'm Lori Harris, and first I would like to,
um, thank Mr.
Wigan for his years of service to the city.
And, um, I am very sad
that we will not have a banquet center
any place in this area.
And I'm not sure if it's just I, you could be done
and maybe you have tried to sell it, um,
or gotten someone to run the business,
but, um, we don't need another gas station.
We don't need another gas station.
We have at least 80 gas stations in the city. I believe.
I could be totally wrong, but we're, it's very close to 80.
We don't need it. We don't need another one at 14.
And Ryan, and while Speedway wants to, um, you know,
have Speedway on every roadway, we don't need it.
And I just resent the thought
that everything has to be approved.
Why do we have a commission?
If someone could explain that to me. So it made sense.
Doesn't make any sense. You have to approve it.
What's the use of having a meeting?
What's the use of having a commission?
I also wanted to suggest that the city input from residents,
um, on the new fire halls, people have been very pleased
by the, uh, um, type
of fire halls that were built.
They're very, um, people are excited about it,
a little more classy.
This kind of building you think is, um, you know, up to date
and new is a box, a box with metal on it.
It's gonna look like a box forever.
It's not gonna ever have anything
else that it can look like.
Um, so I'm, I am, uh, very concerned
that you weren't paying attention in the historic part
of Warren, that you would put in a building
that had some historic, um, uh, facade.
Something that looks, uh, that looks better than a box.
Um, I also,
it's just money.
Everything's money and nothing will change.
Nothing will change and it'll take years for anybody
to do anything different.
But I really believe that this does not meet the master plan
to put gas stations, car washes, uh,
storage places on every square piece
of land that's available.
And I believe that the planning Commission should be working
to find other solutions.
And, and I don't blame Mr.
Wirth and Michelle so much
as I blame the community development
for not doing their job.
Not marketing, not, uh,
not marketing our city for other business.
Excuse me. Your time's almost up.
Okay. Um,
but I am really disappointed that we will have no place, uh,
to have showers and maybe we should have found other
ways to support Mr.
Weakened or he should have let the community know
if he needed, you know, us
to help promote this more. So thank you.
Thank you. Anyone else like
to come up and speak on this item?
Please state your name and address for the record.
Sam Jarbo. 3 0 9 5 3
South 13 Mile Mound is Marathon Gas Station.
Okay. Speedway. He say he don't have any in Mound.
They got him in a 12 mile.
They got him on 14 mile, they got him on 15 mile run.
They got an another 14 mile r proof
and they got him in Vandyke.
13 mile and sheet already.
City War, you commercial, you your job.
We don't wanna invite, but you give too much permit.
Five gas station sheet you prove already.
And too many gas station in City Warren
compared Troy, Macomb.
Any, any city is don't have any many gas station.
Plus you heard, you see last week sheet open 13 mile
on van, 13 and a half.
Vandyke and Speedway, they put gas 2 78,
they lose 80, 90 cents and Speedway is match it.
Big line traffic.
Vandyke police stay
because they losing 20, $30,000 a day.
Two and half, three load each gas station.
They do because it's below cost
and this is the way that they go.
Operator city. One business we can't afford to lose
to lose thousand dollars.
Now they got 'em 2 38, they losing 22 cents every day.
They lose five, 6,000 regular.
Now both Speedway and uh, sheet 13 and half
and Vandy, how we can afford the business
plus this air, the 13 mile
and mound is danger for the gas station.
13 miles don't have any exit.
You open the exit as the light anytime is be red.
It's gonna be bigger traffic, it's gonna be blocked.
The exit after 10 because there's text center.
Too many Car plus Mountain.
They don't have any no diesel light, no.
How houses gonna be operator, just they got money
because they don't care.
Speedway, they own marathon. They don't care.
They got billion, 8,000 billion dollar.
This is the way we need something to do.
City warrant for people, you know, and too many gas station.
I know they got money. Everybody, they got money. That's it.
Just money talk. This is the way
and thank you.
Thank you sir. Have a good evening. Bye bye.
Good evening. Uh, my name is David Metzler.
I live at 2 9 5 6 7 Park Place Drive.
I'm very concerned about this from Thera, uh,
traffic point of view.
Uh, just because of the fact is that when I try to go
to Green Lantern Pizza, I've nearly gotten in the accidents
because of people speeding on Mound.
I think that, uh, there should not be any, uh, entrance
and exit off of Mound Road.
I would encourage you to, uh, avoid that, uh,
exit an entrance off of Mound Road.
Uh, secondly regarding this, you know,
this will be the fourth gas station within six months
that you all are looking at approving.
And I think that we need
to look at the long-term impact of this.
You know, our nation, whether we like it
or not, is moving towards electric vehicles.
And we need to think about in 20, 30, 40 years the impact,
the environmental impact
that all these sites are putting on our red run drain.
We already have a polluted red run drain right
now from Oakland County.
Do we need to add more runoff to the system?
Because with every gas station, if a gas station shuts down,
and I understand that the one on Van D**e is supposed
to shut down and move to Mount, I believe
that's the overall, uh, strategy here.
So those sites are gonna have runoff for years.
And as you know, for anyone that's lived around here,
we know that Ryan
and 12 Mile, the gas station that was at
that southwest corner took a long time to redevelop that.
And so I think everybody needs
to look at the overall environmental
impact on a long-term basis for this project.
You know, 20, 30, 40 years,
when we move away from gasoline, how's it gonna look?
We're gonna have landfills throughout the city
because of these gas stations.
And yes, other neighboring communities may have the same
challenge, but we're approving all these gas
stations to our detriment.
It's time to look at the future.
You guys are the planning department.
So plan for 10, 20, 30, 40 years down the road.
You can't just say yes to everybody
that comes up here for their approval.
You know, don't be afraid of the lawsuits.
Do what's right for the residents. Thank you.
Thank you, sir.
Good evening, sir.
Good evening, chairman. Good evening commissioners.
Good evening. Our city attorney
and members of the public, my name is Lloyd Brown.
I'm the owner of Walton Engineering at 3 1 3 3 0 Mound Road.
I'm just a few hundred, uh,
feet from this proposed development.
Um, and, um, you know, we refer to Ru Mound Road
as the Mound Road Racetrack.
Um, you know, I wanna be clear here tonight.
You know, I'm not against development.
Um, this is about public safety.
Um, I spent about 30 minutes before the meeting today.
I drove up and down Mound Road.
I went all the way down to 6 96
and I observed the width
of all the driveways going into all the gas stations.
I looked at where there was deacceleration lanes.
And I pulled into every one of 'em.
And I also pulled into the gazebo.
And I gotta be honest with you,
I have the same fear when I pull into my place.
And I've been doing this for almost 30 years.
I've been on Mound Road since 1997.
I have to look in the rear view mirror speed up
so I can pull in my parking lot.
And this is, this is not, this has nothing
to do with the weekends.
You know, I have a lot of respect for the weekends.
We've had just about every one
of our Christmas parties at the Gazebo.
This is about public safety.
This is about the safety of my employees.
This is about the safety of the,
the other businesses that are nearby.
So first of all, with safety, it is a racetrack.
It, it's, the speeds are excessive.
The police are out there all the time.
A lot of aggressive driving, frequent close calls.
It's, it's just part of a daily reality.
And it, it just scares me to think that, um, a gas truck,
which can't even stay in the right lane per the,
per the proposal here, it has to actually move over a lane
to be able to pull in.
I I don't know how you do that.
When, when they're, when the traffic is going at the
speeds, they are on Mile Road.
I, I, I don't, I'm not a traffic expert,
but that, that's gotta be some sort of magic.
Um, I, I'm, I'm here for my employees.
My employees are on foot.
They walk, they drive, they, they go for a walk at lunch.
And you know, this is, this is a little crazy here.
Um, the traffic study, you know,
there was a few pokes there.
I I did take a call.
I was asked to take a call with, with, uh, Mike called me up
and with the agree folks, they said, Hey, we'd like
to show you some things that we're doing for the site.
So I came to the meeting prepared to, to listen.
I, I wasn't there to offer suggestions, change their site,
plan, any of those types of things.
But I gotta admit, I I was a little surprised
that the traffic study was done on November 4th.
That's election day. So the largest employer,
general Motors, they're closed.
The schools are closed. I, I don't know about take 'em.
I mean, but you, you take those two out of the out of play.
I mean, it's maybe like Christmas morning, morning,
Excuse me. So your time's almost up.
It's maybe like Christmas morning.
So I guess at the end, I, you know, I had a lot
to talk about, but you know, at the end of the day,
I respectfully request that this project be the night.
Thank you, sir. Have a good evening.
Anyone else like to speak on this item?
Good evening, sir.
Good evening. My name is Jordan Siegel.
I'm the attorney for Walton and Engineering.
Uh, I spoke to you once before at the previous meeting.
I'm here to speak to you again.
I think first what I'd like to do first I'd, I'd like
to ask you to be a little, uh, uh, nice
with the, with the timer.
I have a lot to respond to Mr. Uh, Mr. Lennon.
Um, but in, in short, I'd first like to start by saying,
I mean, we had a meeting
with them in which we asked at the end for more time
to review their submissions.
And they said, no, we want you to give us your changes
that you would make to our site plan.
Right now, we are, we're unable to do that at that time
because we are not engineers.
And we had to, we need to have a full
and fair opportunity to review the materials.
The same reason that you heard GM ca call in
and say they need a full
and fair opportunity to review the materials.
You don't have to take the site plan
and traffic study that you've been presented
with at face value.
We've, they've admitted that it was suspect,
at least in the fact that as we've discussed it, was the,
the data was collected on a less than normal day.
And so what we,
and now maybe they might think, well, there are, we,
we suspect, or we think we might have, uh, reasons
to think that it might be fine.
Well, we are engaging a traffic engineer
to give you an actual study
that will give you the actual data that you need
to make this decision appropriately.
If you can't do that, they cannot say
that you've been presented with all the information
that you need to render an opinion that the, uh,
that the site plan and the materials they
provided are complete and accurate.
And without that information,
you do not have a proper record
to make the decisions upon which they're,
they're asking you to make.
So they don't meet the ordinance, uh, that,
uh, that they claim they do.
The fact that they're not asking
for a variance is immaterial if they don't meet
the ordinance to begin with.
It is in your discretion.
It is your judgment that will, that that matters here.
And you are entitled to have a full, uh,
documented evidence on the record of what the traffic,
uh is, what the traffic will be,
and you, that only happens if we have the opportunity
to conduct our own traffic study
and review the materials that, that have been presented.
We've been in discussions with the city attorney's office
through our FOIA request.
Those materials are not going to be available
until I note tomorrow.
Uh, I I'm hearing from the, uh,
I'm seeing from the, uh, city attorney,
Oh, I'm sorry, I have record that we produced the
Documents, right? Uh,
some of the documents, sorry, sorry.
And, and, um, we have sort of further discussions, uh,
to be had in that regard.
Um, but the fact of the matter is, we, we,
the the documents in front of you are admittedly suspect
because they admit that the, that the, uh,
traffic study was not done on optimal, uh,
under optimal normal conditions.
We want the opportunity to give you the real information
you've heard from people here today.
Say, look, the experts can say whatever they want.
Our real world experience tells us this is going
to be an unsafe driving area,
and we want the opportunity, sir,
to present you with that information.
That was your time. Thank you. Thank you.
Anyone else like to speak on this item?
Good evening.
Hi, good evening. Michael Wiggin, uh,
property owner at the gazebo.
Uh, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the community
for nearly 51 years of patronage and support
and the gratitude
and appreciation I have for what we
apparently mean to the community.
It, it really gets me, uh, with
that being said, I don't know.
Some of you may or may not know I actually live within sight
of the gazebo, so, um, this is
my neighborhood in, in something that I didn't
consider without great thought,
but with the changing trends
and social entertainment catering
and my personal family obligations, um,
I really appreciate your kind consideration in allowing me
to move on to the next chapter of my life.
It's, it's time for me to end this one.
Thank you. Thank
You, sir.
Anyone else like to speak on this item?
Oh, you're, you're with the petitioner, right? Yeah. Okay.
We're going close out the public hearing
and we'll get back with you on that.
Anyone else from the public like to speak on this item?
Seeing none will turn over to the commission.
You need a motion,
Motion to postpone till we get the full traffic study
that was being asked for,
which is gonna come through tomorrow.
And also considering the new business item that I saw, um,
regarding a resolution for limiting gas station of the city
of four two, please,
Mr. Chair.
Go ahead. A motion to postpone is not debatable,
but I would would like to add the item on the agenda later
would not apply retroactively.
Okay. To active applications, it would not,
it would apply prospectively
and City Council has ultimate say,
Okay, a motion to postpone due to not having a full, uh,
traffic study done at this point.
Support
Has a motion by Commissioner Morris for Mr.
Ze discussion.
Mr. Chairman, The traffic study is,
Oh, one second, sir.
The traffic study is complete
and it actually addresses all the things
that were identified in the first call.
The traffic engineer can speak to that, uh,
and maybe that will affect, you know, the motion being made.
Thank you, sir. It's a very thorough and complete study.
Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Uh, Mr. Chairman, if we get a call from GM
and, uh, in all my years on planning, I don't think we've,
I've ever heard GM calling in
and wanting more information or otherwise.
Um, that's one and that's why I supported the motion.
Uh, two, um, the width
of these driveways, uh, the prints have 'em at 40 feet,
and you're saying that the, uh, Macomb County Department
of Roads wants 30 feet on the driveways in
and out of it. Which one is it?
Macomb County's looking for 30 feet.
We revise the plans to reflect 30 feet.
Um, 30 feet really makes it even worse.
Um, I don't know how you take one, a tanker truck
and out of the right lane on Mo Mound.
How, well, let me ask, let's back up.
How do you plan to get the trucks to supply gasoline in
and out of this f uh, facility?
So in the presentation there was a truck route plan.
They would enter the site on Mound Road and exit on 13 Mile.
Um, So this is a part of the materials
that were reviewed and approved
by the County Road Commission, so it meets their standards.
Um, I will say that in terms
of the fueling truck specifically,
those are exclusively done in the lowest traffic hours
of any day usually, you
Know? Well, I'd hope so.
Yes, correct.
So, you know, in the hours of 1:00 AM
to 5:00 AM is typically what they target to,
to actually, uh, fill,
Um, well, that's, that, that's a plus.
But, um, I still have a problem with the 30 foot with,
um, I think it ought to be more
because I, I don't know how you take a truck that big
and pull it in there.
That's one, two, uh,
where is the, where does the truck,
uh, pour the, where are the tanks
at? Let's put it that way.
If you look to the image on the right,
I don't know if you can, you see what's Yeah.
Being presented? Yes.
So that hashed area
and the southern portion
of the property, those are the tanks.
Okay. On, you're gonna have, what,
three tanks? Four tanks?
There's two, I believe.
One for regular gas, one for premium.
So you're not gonna have diesel here.
One, one for regular, one for, uh, the, the,
the petroleum tank has two containers inside of it
for the premium, I believe,
and then there's a separate tank for diesel.
Okay. Uh,
but personally, I don't know how you get a truck to make
that turn, go in and out of it,
and then coming out of it onto 13 Mile Road.
Uh, it's in the middle of
that slowdown lane going into Northbound Mound.
Um, I've been th through that corner
hundreds of times, and every time I get near it, it,
it worries me because it's the turn.
And then you have the, uh,
slowdown laying on the right side.
It, I understand what you wanna do
and how you want to do it,
but it's ju it just doesn't work for me.
Uh, that from, from what I see, um,
And, uh, I agree with the traffic study to put it to, to see
what GM comes up with, um, based on,
uh, the fact that okay, they don't know
how all this is gonna go.
But first of all, I, I am very,
very dubious about any traffic studies at this point in time
because 6 96 is closed down and
after everything's said done,
I've never seen backups on north south, or east
and west the way I'm seeing 'em now, even
before 6 96 was put in.
Mm-hmm. Uh, hopefully that will alleviate itself soon.
Uh, I, you know, I think this is a nice development,
but I don't like the location of it.
And that's why I, I agree that, um, if,
if we can do something
and something, uh, with GM's approval with the people
that live around it's approval, uh, I think we can,
we can move forward with this now to Mr.
Wegen. I'd love your place.
The food was always excellent.
The service was, uh, perfect
and it really breaks my heart to see you have to close.
Um, but we're running outta halls also.
Uh, DeCarlos south
of 10 on 10 Mile Road closed, you're gonna close.
Uh, that leaves the Ukrainian Center
and, uh, Bellagio, if I'm not mistaken.
And then the ones on, what is that? 13 mile, 13 mile road.
Um, I had like
to get more information on it
and I've been doing enough running around
and looking at this to justify it
and let's see what, uh,
the traffic study comes up with in the future.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, sir. Um, just one question.
When you say the traffic study in the future, um,
are you referencing a separate traffic
study than the one we provided?
Uh, I'm referencing what GM wants to do.
I think from what I understood in the call with gm,
GM was requesting that we provide a traffic study
And, and that's fine.
If GM says go for it,
then we might have a different discussion
here. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Yeah, I would just add that the traffic study is complete
and the engineer will now speak to what it includes,
which I believe is everything GM was saying.
It should include. Certainly you're not saying GM should
review a traffic study for this,
this is a city obligation to review.
Um, but go ahead. Yeah.
First of all, my apologies for interrupting earlier until,
until now, so I apologize for that.
As far as the traffic impact study, yes, we completed it.
Uh, we understand, you know,
there was con some con some concerns over a Tuesday count
that also spilled over into Wednesday.
That's why we, we took it a step further
and we did get counts that were from almost a year ago.
So 6 76 wasn't closed at that time,
and so we did look at
more than one avenue, and we even went above and beyond
and increased volumes on 13 Mile Road on the east leg
by 25%, even though our count was higher than the count
that was done about 10 months ago.
Um, we, we feel the traffic impact study we did, according
to the Institute of Transportation, uh,
engineers Trip Generation manual, 11th edition, uh, used,
uh, synchro version 12.
Uh, so all the latest, uh, traffic
requirements were MO pre-qualified
for traffic impact studies, um,
registered pro professional engineer in the state
of Michigan, and also professional traffic
operations engineer.
So this isn't the first traffic study I I've done.
As I indicated earlier, what makes this site, uh,
work better in terms of traffic is that you have
and are limited to right and right outs.
So we don't have a left turn movement into this development.
They are right and right outs.
If I could also, uh, talk about the truck turn movement,
so those truck turns are, and,
and the, uh, fueling station truck, those are actually, uh,
modeled and, uh, used with, um, auto turn, which is a, an,
it's an actual truck turning template
of the exact fuel truck that will be using that.
And, uh, as you heard, uh, from from Josh, indicate, uh,
those deliveries are made well off of off peak hours.
So, uh, they're, they're made sometimes at, uh,
one o'clock in the morning, two o'clock in the morning so
that you don't have those kind of issues.
So we understand your concern over the width
of the driveway, but it, it clearly does work.
Uh, the road commission has agreed with the truck turn,
so I'm not sure what delaying is going
to do in that respect.
Also delaying in terms of gm, uh,
when they indicate a traffic impact study, well,
one's already been done.
Uh, you know, again, it, it clearly shows, uh,
I think the biggest item
and the biggest, one of the biggest concerns is what
that Q length would do, extending back to the east
and does it extend beyond the site driveway.
And it clearly is about 80, 80 feet short
of the site driveway.
So we feel the traffic impact study
before you is, is accurate.
It shows exactly what the Q length is going to to do.
We also compared it with a prior count
that was done on not only 13 mile, but also on Mound Road.
And we do feel that the information is, uh, is, is correct.
So again, thank you for your time. Thank you,
Sir. Any other
commissions wanna comment on this?
May respond.
The applicant. I'm,
You're done.
Um, one second, sir.
Um huh. I have question.
What you gotta say, Mr. Chair?
May I have the floor? Floor, Mr.
Chair? Yeah. With your mic on. Turn your mic on.
I can't talk to the petitioner.
Well, you gotta have the floor to talk.
You gotta say, may I have the floor
and you can talk
to the petitioner, the talk to the petitioner.
Mr. Chairman. Yeah, there you go.
Petitioner please.
Petitioner, come up please. I just have,
um, two questions.
Um, how many times do the tankers refill that station?
No, I don't know the answer to that.
Unfortunately, my engineer's not here.
I do know it's multiple times a week.
Okay. A week, not during day, once a day or, or less.
It's not multiple times a day.
Okay. And what are the hours that they normally deliver?
I'm sorry. What are the hours
that they normally deliver?
They normally deliver between one
and 5:00 AM for the fueling truck.
And that's the same with any large deliveries for the,
uh, merchandise.
Any deliveries that are done during peak hours are limited
to very small vans or very small trucks.
Thank you. Yep.
No more questions. Any other commercial we wanna speak,
attorney would like to say? So chair,
Go ahead. The motion on
the floor is to postpone if there is an,
if there is discussion, it should be limited to reasons to,
for or against postponement, please.
Okay. So what we need to do is take a motion
or take a vote on the motion to postpone.
Yes. If anybody has comments,
they could comment on the postponement to, for or against.
Okay. Postponement will allow some debate. Okay.
Table will not, but a postponement will.
Okay. So that was the motion by, uh, commissioner Moray.
Support by Commissioner Ddue. Huh?
We need to vote on whether to postpone this
or not. Roll call.
Commissioner Morey. I vote yes. Commissioner Ddue? Yes.
To Postpone. Commissioner Anza?
Yes. To Postpone. Commissioner Hollow?
Yes. To Postpone. Commissioner Hawk? Yes. To Postpone.
Commissioner Beki?
No. To postpone. And then Commissioner Smith?
No. To postpone. So we have four
to four to two.
Five. Five. Two Five.
Five,
Five.
So the motion was to postpone it.
Discussion.
I, uh, I would like to make a comment on this.
And you know, everybody worries about the traffic study.
The traffic study. The traffic design
for this project is a great design.
I reviewed the traffic study.
I also visited the area during certain times.
And even coming here tonight, I was coming up mound
and people were cutting in and out, cutting cars off,
jumping in and outta traffic.
It's not the traffic, it's the people driving.
Until people become more respectful
with other people on the roads, you're gonna have a problem
nor where you, no matter
where you are, as far as traffic goes.
And like I said, I think this is a good design
and I think that they did a very good job with the study.
And I think it's in a good location actually,
because General Motors, they've got a gate coming off
of Mound going north,
and they've got gate on 13 Mile where they come out.
So if people need to get gas, they don't have to go clear
around the block to get gas.
But like I say, um, the main concern seems
to be the traffic study.
And like I say, I think they did an excellent job on the
traffic study, but it's not the traffic, it's the people.
People are disrespectful to each other.
Everybody wants to be first.
They run up to the light, they cut in out, they stop quick.
And that's where all your accidents and stuff come in.
So, to me, I felt that, you know, it was a good, good plan.
But like I said, we have vote five to five to two
that they want to postpone it.
So at this particular time, it's gonna be postponed till.
And the other comment I wanna make too, this came
before us in December and it just
came back right before us today.
They had plenty of time
to get all their information together, had plenty of time,
not just a week, got a couple weeks, a little over two weeks
to get the information together on this situation.
And then they're gonna wait till the last minute
and say, oh, well we need to postpone it.
'cause we need more information. It doesn't take
that much time to gather information.
So that's, that's my comments on the, on the situation.
Uh, if anybody else has anything to say, the vote was five
to two, so be postponed to the next next meeting
Chair. I would like
to make a comment and why.
I also voted against postponing it.
I've been in Warren a lot of years
and I've gone down 12 mile and 13,
and GM has three likes just for their things on 12 mile
and years ago they used to use 'em.
Now most, a lot of people only work one
or two days a week at gm.
So I'm a little surprised at the call.
The volume coming outta the plan is not
an everyday like it used to be.
That's why I felt the times the traffic wasn't,
didn't demand it for gm. Thank you.
All right, thank you. All right.
Um, our next Mr. Wth, you want something to say something?
Yeah, just a question.
What is it that you want the petitioner to do?
I really don't know of anything else
they could possibly do.
I mean, other than the discussion seems to have been what?
A new traffic study
or, uh, something more information added
to the existing traffic study.
Or are they supposed to pay attention to
some other aspect of the site?
Uh, I would like to know, uh, just so
that the petitioner knows what
to do next for the next meeting.
I, I understand your concerns
and I don't know what more we can ask the petitioner to do
because I feel that they've done a good job
and, uh, postponing it to the next meeting.
I don't really think it's gonna solve any other issues
because like I said, it does meet the use.
It does, it meets all the requirements of the ordinances.
And as a committee, I know a lot
of people don't like it as a committee.
If it meets the ordinances, we have to approve it.
If not, they can take us to court and sue us.
And that's another long drawn out thing.
But that's not what we're here about.
We're here to look at the situation logically
and try to make a good decision on what needs
to be done. Go ahead, Mr.
Mr. Chair. You, I still don't think this
commission is finished.
You postponed it.
What is the reason
or reasons you must provide that to the petitioner?
So if the commission could, uh, if perhaps
continue their discussion, please let the petitioner know
what they must do to, uh, uh,
satisfy the planning commission.
All right. So in that aspect, Ms.
Commissioner Zay, you wanna state
what you want the petitioner
To do? Well, um,
first of all, I'd like to get, uh, uh,
driveway widths, uh, finished up and,
and what's it going to be?
30, 40, 50. What?
Um, and I understand that, that
we will go back and forth with, uh,
Macomb County Road Commission to get that done.
Macomb County Road Commission doesn't control 13 mile.
Uh, so why is 13 Mile Road,
are you planning on leaving
that at 40 or what are you doing?
Uh, what was shown on the plan, I believe is 30.
I can consult the engineer.
Um, but yeah, we originally had 40, as you know,
right on Mound Road.
The change was made to 30 based on the comments
of the Macomb
County. And, and
did you actually talk
to them about making it possibly 50?
We did not, but we assumed they wanted it lower.
Fair enough. Not higher.
Uh, is, are there any,
there's no sidewalks.
So, uh, I don't know if there's
sidewalks further down the road.
Uh, Mr. Wigan would know better than anybody else.
We intend to have sidewalks,
and I believe there are some existing
all the way around the property. They exist.
All right. Um,
It, pardon me,
but it, it feels like the Planning commission is grasping
for reasons to justify this decision to
table us to another meeting or postpone.
The traffic study is complete. The plan is complete.
It meets the ordinance.
This is hard to follow, to say the least.
Fair enough. Thank you. Commissioner Duhe,
Mr. Chair, if I
May Go ahead. Commissioner Murray. Well,
I would like to give a little bit of reasoning for my
postponement, um, motion too.
Um, I think my first is, uh,
especially doing the traffic study on an election day,
not getting that accurate results.
So if, uh,
the maiden Hener attorneys are also looking into this
details, I'm interested in seeing what type
of information they come up with to review that.
Because if they're gonna be able
to provide a little bit more info,
I'm interested in looking at that information,
considering we're already thinking,
I know this is something the attorney mentioned,
we don't want this many gas stations in the City of Foreign.
Right. So consider, I, I do wanna keep even,
even though it meets every single requirement,
I do wanna see if this is what type
of impacts it's gonna have to the community.
We also have to consider the residents that live in there,
the amount of accidents
and everything that happens in Mount Road.
If we do the traffic study on a day when it's usually less
traffic, I think we're not getting the whole picture.
So I'm interested in seeing other opinions about it.
Thank you Commissioner Anza. I'll
Just, I'll just remind the planning commission
that the traffic study wasn't even technically required.
We were asked to do it and did,
Excuse me, sir, let me,
let me get the comment from the other commissioners
and then we'll get back with you on that.
May Commissioner, commissioner Anza? Yes, sir.
What was your reason for postpone it?
Yeah, I'm gonna, uh, explain it.
Uh, first of all, um, I wanna thank, uh, Speedway, uh,
for investing in, in the Warren.
And I think, you know, we have to prework them.
And that's another one you want to invest in, Warren.
So I want to thank you for choosing Warren at the same time.
Um, look, um, on Mound Road,
I believe you have a three, this is going
to be the third Speedway, 10 mile and Mound.
You have one and 12 and Mound? We have, we approved one.
It is in, uh, under construction,
and this is going to be the third one.
So if I'm okay.
And also I believe that, um, probably seven
or eight gas station on,
on Mound Road just from within 14 mile.
So I already raised boys, uh,
in the commission last few meetings that personally
as a commissioner, I think
that we have too many gas station.
So when my colleague, you know, she motion
for postponed, I was like, okay,
we are gonna give them again, chance to, you know, see that,
um, uh, traffic report.
Otherwise, even though I would go against, no,
because I personally think that location as my colleague,
um, za mentioned that I, we really appreciate
that you are choosing Warren and investing in Warren.
That is, you know, that's a good for the city
and, you know, is gonna help the city development.
But location wise, uh, is, is is not, you know,
if you pick another gas station and remodel it
or you know, another location, we of course appreciate your,
you know, investment in the Warren.
But the location wise, I personally think Mound Road is,
is like, you know, kind of freeway 50 speed limit people
driving 50 60.
And at the same time, you know, um, GM is there.
So 20,000, you know, people, they, they, you know,
coming out in this road.
So they a huge thing.
You know, we have to look at everything, the safety,
of course, we have to see it at the same times, you know,
uh, other things also we have to put in, in together
before we make a decision.
So postponing, I, I think, you know, we can,
we have another chance to review it
before, you know, uh, make our decision,
then we can make a correct decision. Thank you. Thank
You. Uh,
commissioner Hawk you in your comments,
we're gonna keep 'em short because, um,
we need to have a main motion.
Yes. Um, other than postpone
It. Thank, thank you so
much, uh, for the speed, gas, gas, uh,
gas company to decided to open another location.
But the 13 mile mound, this is a very critical area.
This is a very critical area.
And when people coming from the 6 96
and the speed is going up to like, is a 50 speed limit,
but it is going sometime we see 60 mile.
And even though you are meeting all the requirements,
but still, we have to think about the public safety
and we have to listen, uh,
the pupil living in the city.
So I believe at this time we need further discussion
and I support to postpone, uh,
this agenda today.
Commissioner Awadi.
Okay. Commissioner chair. Um, question to the attorney.
Is it possible if I wanted to change my vote,
There Could be after this discussion,
There could be a motion to reconsider the postponement?
Pardon me? There could be a motion
to reconsider the postponement.
Okay. And you voted on the favorable side, so
Yes, I know, I understand.
I'm just curious. Well, yes.
My thought is that to postponement, just allow maybe
one more time for the petitioner give with his neighbors
to try to work it elbow one more time.
And also maybe give GM
one last opportunity.
If they don't, if they don't respond,
you can't say they haven't had a chance to respond.
You know why they said, oh, we need more time.
I'd given 'em over almost like a month and a half.
I, so that's my reason. Thank you.
So,
um,
I'm support.
Oh yeah, I'm supporting Postpone. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry.
I thought I made that clear. I apologize.
So now
I don't, the thing about
postponing this is that I hear what everybody's saying
that they want the petitioner to do,
but it's not anything that they haven't already done.
So to try to get them to do more
and you can't tell 'em what more you want 'em to do,
is it gonna make a difference?
No, no interruptions, please. No, no interruptions, please.
Thank you. No interruptions, please.
So,
Mr. Mr.
Chairman? Uh, I don't think I, well,
I think that, uh, giving the petitioner a chance to get
with Walton and with GM to make sure everything,
if GM says go for it, uh,
they're getting a lot more people
into GM at this point in time.
So I have no idea how the, how
that's gonna affect the traffic study that they've got.
I don't know. But, uh, if they can talk, uh,
give 'em a chance to talk some more about it, then that's,
that would be a good,
uh, solution to all this. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
May I talk Mr. Chair? Yes. Yeah.
Uh, so, uh, my colleague in, um,
Mauri, she mentioned that the traffic study,
you guys did it in November 4th, that was the election day.
So she's requesting,
and I'm supporting Maori's, uh, proposal
that can you do it a regular day?
And also, um, colleague Doze mentioned that
if you can make arrangement meeting with, um, gm, that will,
you know, uh, will be, will be good.
So we can make a, a the decision, strong decision.
So request will be, you know, specific request.
Um, I'm requesting that can you do the tropic study again,
the regular day instead of any holiday
or off day so we can get the accurate information.
What, so we can make decision
And, and I think it's important address that.
I think it's important to note in the
presentation I addressed that.
I mean, we, we have an MO count taken from
December 14th, 2024, less than less than 10 months
from when our count was done.
And it's actually slightly lower,
especially on 13 mile Road.
And that's why just to be ultra conservative,
which the study already is,
we even increased our traffic count, which already is higher
by 25%.
And the queue still did not back up
beyond the 13 mile road driveway, uh, the site driveway.
So I, I think that's important to note.
So you're asking us to go back and then also to try
and have discussions with, with GM now, which
I don't know if you've tried to contact gm,
they're not exactly easy to get ahold of
and trying to have a meeting with them.
Uh, I'm not sure what that's going
to, you don't need to address.
Sure, I'll stick to the traffic, but,
but specifically the delay in trying to
organize a meeting like that.
But going back to the traffic count, yes,
the traffic count was obtained also from mdot.
Um, MDOT conducts the traffic counts just like we do.
They use MyVision just like we do.
They're video camera collected. They're extremely accurate.
Uh, we listed, you can see the Mdot site, the count,
the count location, and the count data, uh, from Mdot.
So, uh, we again feel that the study
as submitted is accurate. But, uh, thank you.
Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. I yield my floor
So we got a motion to postpone,
Right?
But they don't want to reconsider.
So attorney is Gonna
Last Mr.
Chair.
Yeah. So we need to give him a date.
But the thing about it, we haven't told them
other than you wanna talk, you want 'em to talk to gm,
what more you want 'em to do?
And I guess that's what we're trying to figure out,
what more exactly you want them to do
that's gonna make a difference.
Talked to GM about it
and talked to the Macomb Road commission at,
at a minimum, those two
All through the petitioner.
Can you come up please or Ron, do you want say something?
Yes, Ron, come up first.
I mean, trying to weigh everything that, uh, has been said
and thanks for your thoughts
and uh, I appreciate it, frankly.
But, uh, if there, you talked about a study,
you talked about, I believe a new study.
I don't know that you, anybody's really said it,
but if they do need to do another study,
are they gonna be able to do it?
Uh, by, I think what the 26th is the next,
Can't Read it. 26th
here, it says in the, uh, alright,
that's only a couple of weeks.
Or will they need another month
to, uh, run it to, uh, February 9th?
So it's a question. I don't know.
It depends on what, what you're after here.
And if you want another study
and you're not, you don't think that the,
the original study is, uh, that dependable.
Uh, then you, you gotta ask, make sure it's clear,
uh, what you want there.
All right. I'm just trying, and,
and by the way, I'm, I'm not, I'm sort of in, in the middle
on all this, but the fact, the fact of the matter is
you do need to be clear to the, uh, petitioner on
what you want.
Alright, I'll repeat that. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Worth. Um, so
what I'm gathering from the other commissioners is that
they would like for you to talk with GM
about the traffic study and see what GM says.
'cause they've got a lot of entrances in a
mound and 13 mile.
And, um, like one
of the other commissioners said if their workforce is down,
then they're gonna have a, that traffic anyway.
But I guess the bottom line is they would like
comment from gm.
I mean, the lady was on Zoom
and she didn't really want the project there,
but, um,
this year just seems to be the traffic study.
And I don't know if GM could give you any more advice
on what they could.
Maybe it's something that they could recommend
that you could do to deal with the traffic study,
but being, we've got five commissioned voting
and they voted to postpone it.
Well the next meeting be enough time
or we need another meeting.
Well, I think we're scratching our heads.
Yeah, because we have a very thorough traffic study
that's been completed.
We've, it's been acknowledged across the board
that we meet the ordinance.
Uh, the notion that we would be, uh, postponed
to have discussions with anyone is,
I don't know that I've heard that before,
unless it's something that a petitioner requests,
but we are respectful of your decision
and will consider it and go from there.
I, you know, I, I think
that's the best I can say at this point.
Thank you, sir. Um,
would the next meeting be a good time
or the following meeting?
Um, why don't we just proceed with the next meeting?
Um, that'd be the simply because, and if it's,
and you, as we consider, we, we may be in touch
with the planning department regarding a,
a potential change to that.
But we, we need to decide internally, you know, what our
next steps will be and, and,
and what amount of time we might need for those.
And I suppose for now, putting us on
for the next meeting would be preferred.
And we may, um, request a further, um,
postponement, uh, after we have the chance to, um,
consider all of the discussion tonight
and, uh, these decisions.
Thank you, sir. Thank You.
So we'll postpone this to January 26th.
I am number six B,
I'm number six B site plan for a solar array system
for the electrical industry training center corner
of 11 mile and David gis Road, 2 2 7 7 11 mile road.
Parcel number 13 dash 18 dash 3 76 dash
0 0 2 and 3 76 dash 0 0 3.
And, um, 3 52 dash
zero three section 18.
Joe Scott and Motor City Electric Corporation,
Robert Lincoln and Motor City Electric Corporation,
PSP 2 5 0 0 5 1. Thank you.
Thank you. The petitioner here today.
Tell us a little bit about your project.
Yeah, so we are submitting for installation
of a 416 panel solar array on the Detroit, uh,
electrical industry training centers.
Um, it's actually on the southwest side
and the open loft there located at 2 2 7 7 11 mile Road.
The array is configured in three rows, um,
represented in ES 1 0 1, uh, the electrical site plan.
The array is ground mounted
and will cover approximately 20,000 square feet in area.
It will be surrounded by a six foot chain link fence
with an entry, uh,
and we will comply with the, uh,
fire department's gate of entry.
Um, the array
and fence are positioned well within the allowable setbacks.
Uh, according to the ordinances, we're not asking
for any additional lighting as, uh, part of the ordinances.
Um, because this is just a ground mounted solar array,
there is no impact to the sewer or the, the runoff.
Um, and that is pretty much the, the gist of, uh,
what we're applying for.
Thank you, sir. Correspondence,
Correspondence, taxes, current building.
The building department has no objections.
Engineering preliminary review
of this site indicates no difficulty in development.
Police. The Warren Police Department does not foresee any
problems with the solar array system.
Um, at t at t does not object
to the proposed solars array system,
but we do have facilities in the vicinity of this work.
If mystic indicates a conflict, please ask the petitioner
to contact me.
Comcast. In response to your utility request for the
above project, please refer to the attached map
for the location of Comcast, CATV and fiber facilities.
Aerial cables are highlighted in orange for fiber
and yellow for Coke's.
Cable underground is highlighted in blue for fiber
and green for Cokes cable.
If we can be of further assistance, please feel free
to contact us by email at
CCC utility request@teamsigma.com.
DTE No objection.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate
to contact me at
5 8 6 7 8 3 1 9 8.
The site is on MDOs right away.
Any work driveway modification, sidewalk sidewalk work,
water, water main tap, uh, sanitary tap drainage,
and et cetera on MDOs right away,
or changes to the drainage system
that may impact MDOs system will
require a permit. Thank you.
Thanks Madam Secretary. Plain Department's recommendation
Is recommended that the site plan for a solar array system
for the electrical industry training center be approved
with the standard conditions of the planning commission
and more specifically, number one, five copies
of revised site plan shall be submitted,
indicating the following.
One A, the site plan is missing
pertinent required information.
The plan shall be revised
to include the following information, one,
the property lines, bearings and distances.
Two, the zoning shall be corrected and depicted on the plan
and in the site data chart as follows, O Office, district
and P parking district,
which is the east 100 feet of the property.
Number three, the parking lot shall be fully dimension
and including the parking spaces
and maneuvering lanes indicate the number
of accessible parking spaces as required per a DA.
Number four, the parking
provided shall meet section 4.32 subsection 19
of the zoning ordinance,
which re which requires one parking space
for each 200 square feet of floor area.
Number five, all existing
and proposed lighting shall be indicated on the site plan.
One, six, I'm sorry, six, indicate the surface of the ground
on the site, and in particular,
under the proposed solar arrays.
For example, is it grass hard surfacing, et cetera.
Um, and number seven, indicate the type
and height of fence proposed to go
around the new solar array system.
BA note shall be
provided stating open storage
of materials shall not be permitted on the, the site.
And c the site plan shall be updated
to show the parking spaces and accessible parking spaces.
When 201 to 300 parking spaces are provided in a parking lot
or facility, a minimum of seven accessible parking spaces
with two of them being van accessible shall be provided.
DA note shall be
provided stating all lighting on the site shall be shielded
and not encroach upon abutting properties.
The light fixtures pulls
and base shall be no higher than 20 feet
as measured from the top of the light fixture
to the bottom of the base.
At ground level, all glare shall be
eliminated from all light fixtures.
Upward directed lighting shall not be permitted.
E although a significant green belt
with berms exists on the site,
a 20 foot wide green belt consisting of three rows of AEs
and two rows of evergreen trees shall be provided.
When abutting residential zone properties.
The petitioner may provide more
and not less landscaping than the green belt requires.
Based on the survey provided
and the planning staff's observations, most
of the green belt along the north
and west property lines where it abuts the R three
and R five districts meets
or exceeds the green belt requirements.
However, in the locations where trees are missing,
the the plan shall be updated
to include additional evergreen trees and
or arbor variety shrubs per section 2.26
B of the zoning ordinance.
FA note shall be
provided stating all landscaped areas shall
be automatically irrigated.
G uh, trash enclosure shall be
provided on the site plan with the,
with the following notes, stating a trash enclosure.
Measuring a minimum 10 feet
by 10 feet shall be constructed of six foot high.
Brick and boss poured concrete walls
with 45 degree angle cap, have screen gates
and be placed upon a minimum 10 foot by 18 foot concrete pad
that provides an eight foot wide apron masonry block shall
not be used as a construction material.
Number two, the three parcels identified
as 13 dash 18 dash 3 76 dash zero two
and then zero zero 3:00 AM 13 dash
18 352 0 3 shall be combined into one parent parcel.
An application shall be submitted
to the planning department requesting
the approval of the combination.
And number three, the following variances may need, may need
to be obtained from the zoning board of appeals prior
to the release of the site plan to the building.
Division three A uh, variance may be required
to waive required parking.
BA use variance
to allow the solar array system in an office district.
And if approved, the variances shall be added
to the revised site plan.
And then number four, a performance bond in the amount
of $26,000.
$26,400 shall be posted according to the estimated cost
of $880,000 by the petitioner.
And this ends the recommendation.
Thank you Ms. Mitchell. This is a public hearing.
If anybody would like to speak on this item, please come up,
state your name and address for the record
and you'll have three minutes to speak.
Seeing none will turn it over to the commission.
Commissioner chair, make a motion to approve
with, with discussion
Support As a motion by Commissioner Hollow.
Support by commissioner discussion.
Okay. Can the petitioner step forward please?
Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you for waiting.
Appreciate it. Um, couple just quick questions.
Do you have any problems with the recommendations
that our planning department, uh, stepped forward,
have put forward this evening?
Uh, no. We submitted a new site survey.
Uh, I think there was some confusion as to
what was on the site surveys versus the site plan.
A lot of the site survey already has this information on it
and we'll make the necessary changes to the safe plan.
And, and with regard to the lot combination,
that application is already, uh, complete.
We are only waiting for the revised legal
descriptions from our engineer.
Um, that'll be submitted in the next couple of days.
Okay. That's nice. Why other, just maybe I'm, just
for my curiosity, I hate to see a lot of greenlands.
I mean, it's good use of land,
but still I see you have a building.
Is there, I've seen other places
where they put solar panels on the buildings themselves.
Have you, is the building strong enough to do
and you maybe use some of that land for maybe a park area
or where the, where the or your students
or whatever go there can use to study or whatever
They, there, there was originally a plan to do just that.
There are, um, uh, mechanical issues
with putting it on the roof of the building.
Uh, this is the only place on the site
as I understand it. Oh.
It's where I know they could be heavy,
but I just thought I've seen as places
where they have put solar panels on
the roofs of their buildings.
I just thought maybe a good al alternative to
'cause since green space can be sometimes
Yeah. Hard to come by.
Unfortunately, in this particular case,
that's not a, that's not an option.
Okay. Thank you. I yield the floor.
Anyone else like to speak on this item?
Good evening, sir. Only question I had
and problem that I had was the drawing that I received
didn't show a lot of detail.
And you know, I know architects try to cut back sometimes
and what they wanna show, uh, the concept of the arrays.
I, I approve that,
but it just, there wasn't enough information on the drawing
itself to make a really technical
and good decision.
But I understand what you're doing.
And when I spoke to the planning department, they said
that you had a survey drawing that you did,
which had a little more information on it.
Plus it's in our recommend in their recommendation
to upgrade that anyway.
Yeah. And that site survey was included as part
of our submission.
Okay. And now this is a, a training school.
So they will you be training students
to work on these? Yeah.
That's part of the benefit
of putting this solar array in this location is
where, better to put it.
Um, okay. It will be used as a, a training ground for, uh,
incoming journeymen
and to learn proper installation of solar arrays.
One one thing I noticed about the solar panels,
which I didn't realize was a lot
of times when you're driving out 94,
you see 'em out that way.
And I noticed at certain times
of day they change directions.
I know, I thought once they were in that position,
they stayed in that position.
But they don't, they, there's a way you can control 'em to
where they can get, gather more sun. Is that correct?
This design does not have that.
This is a, a fixed mounted solar array system.
There are some out there in the market that do that.
Um, the impact as far as return is minimal
in that, um, you, you get a fair amount
with just southern facing solar arrays.
Alright. This is a ground fixed, ground mounted system.
All right. Very good, sir. Thank you.
Uh, that was a motion by Commissioner Hollow wadi supported
by Commissioner Ze Roll Hall.
Commissioner Hollow Wadi. Yes. Commissioner Ze. Yes.
To approve Commissioner, I'm sorry. Yes. To approve.
Commissioner Hawk. Yes. Commissioner Murray votes. Yes.
Commissioner Bki. Yes. To approve Commissioner Smith. Yes.
To approve. Good luck with your project
gentlemen. And thanks for your patience.
But do we really? But do we,
can we get a traffic study on this one?
I'm sorry, I couldn't help.
Don't push it.
Item number seven, correspondence. Seeing none.
Item number eight. Oh, business. Seeing none.
Item number nine, bond releases. Seeing none.
Item number 10,
Discuss, uh, discussion regarding a resolution
for a reasonable tomorrow team up of off, up
to eight months to halt the development
of new gasoline stations and car wash facilities.
Due to the relative increase of such facilities in the city
of Warren, new zoning revolutions may be needed
to address this issue.
Okay. Uh, Mr. Ward, did you wanna speak on this?
Uh, yes. Uh, Mr. Chair, of course.
This is a communication from myself to the, uh, commission.
And, uh, this is
after Watching what's
happened in about the last two
or three years regarding, uh, gasoline stations.
And we are also talking about new car washes.
Anyway, I'll read the, the communication so that everyone,
uh, can hear it.
The planning staff has, uh, observed the increase
of these facilities
and feels that the right balance
of the uses is not being obtained in the city of Warren.
It is clear that the planning staff desires to, uh,
add another layer of review
that would require special land use procedure,
additional design and locational criteria
and potential of requiring a specific
traffic study that, uh, weighs the, um,
the proposed addition of traffic
and traffic movements from the facilities
and updating, uh, the parking criteria for both types
of uses prior to the final approval
or denial from the Warren City Council.
Uh, the time period, uh, requested would allow the,
the Warren Planning Department, attorney's office,
and other concerned departments
or persons, uh, a reasonable amount of time
to review, suggest,
and design amendments to the zoning ordinance that would,
uh, slow the requests for such facilities
and measure their need in the city.
And so, if you have any questions, please contact me.
But, uh, this is our request at this time.
I need a motion to, um,
vote on the proposal for reasonable
resolution for moratorium for eight months
on car washes, gas stations, et cetera.
Uh, so we need a motion to
vote on it to accept this resolution.
I vote to accept. Yep. I support it.
Do that Ansar? Yes.
Okay. There's a motion by Commissioner Moorey, supported
by Commissioner Ansar Roll call.
Uh, Mr. Chairman, if I may. Oh, yeah.
Um, we're covering the car washes
and gasoline stations.
Should we put used car lots on there also?
Absolutely not. And I say absolutely not,
because that, if you look at the, the requirements
for used car lots, there are some
of the strictest requirements in southeast Michigan.
So we've got that covered. It's covered.
Um,
fair enough.
Thank you.
I do have a question. Can I, okay.
And then, uh, attorney has something to say
Also. Okay. Sure.
And Mr. Chair? Mr.
Chair, I just want to go ahead, make the commission clear.
This is a recommendation to city council.
City Council has the authority, sole authority to vote
and ultimate say Thank you
Mr. Chair. Go
ahead. Yeah.
Um, I want to thank, um, Mr. Ward,
'cause I've been probably last couple
of the meeting I've been telling you to, you know,
suggest something to stop this thing.
So thank you for taking the initiative
and recommending to the city council for this thing.
And also, I wanna, I have a request.
Is there any way, can you add also public
storage with this tool?
Car wash and gas station?
Is there any way, can we add public storage? So,
Public what? Public
storage. Public Storage?
Yeah. Or just regular storage. Yeah.
Uh, this, we get a lot of requests for that,
but that's a, it's a common thing.
The only thing about storage is maybe there are some things
that, uh, we could refine on that.
But to put it in with this, these are two
somewhat related uses
and, uh, I don't see why
to put it on at this time.
Let's, let's, let's wait a little bit.
It, I don't want to confuse the issue.
That's really what I want to get to here.
I don't want to, I want to keep focus on this,
on these two uses and, uh, see what we can come up with.
Uh, the open storage issue. Everyone.
We're an industrial type.
Uh, uh, if you haven't noticed, uh, area here,
lots of industry, lots of places where people
want open storage.
And, uh, there should be some new definition.
But we're in the process of revising
our zoning ordinance in a whole, as a whole, I should say.
And, uh, um, we can address that perhaps
during this time period with that.
Okay. Certain issues there.
So we can have further discussions though.
I mean, if you have particular ideas that, of your own about
how to regulate, uh, these, uh, storage areas
and all that on the site, then let us know.
Oh, sure, sure. I will. I will email you guys.
Please do. Thank you. You're welcome.
And also, I think, you know, um, one
of our council member is here.
Thank you for coming here.
And I know I'm requesting, you know,
take this thing seriously as a council, you know,
basically will decide what they wanna do.
But I'm, I'm requesting council
to take this issue seriously.
I am seeing it, uh, all about, uh, social media everywhere.
You know, residents of the city, construc the city.
They are very unhappy. They're complaining
about this gas station.
And also, I personally think that, uh,
gas station is too much.
We, we must have to come up with a, a strong, um, you know,
uh, somewhere that, you know, we can, uh,
do good for the city.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Okay.
There's a motion by Commissioner Moray, supported
by commissioner, an SIR to send the recommendation
to city Council for the moratorium for the eighth month
development of halt of new gas stations
and car washes. Roll call.
Um, Mor votes. Yes. Commissioner Anser?
Yes. Commissioner Dee? Yes. Commissioner Hall. Yes.
Commissioner Hawk. Yes. Commissioner Beki.
I'm gonna vote no. And my reason is, is
because I think it's a little bit
of a slippery stroke slope.
I don't think the traffic study was done on this particular
case today, and it wasn't, it was needed more.
Somebody else called, I kind of think
where our free enterprises, we really shouldn't be dictating
who can and bring what to our city.
I mean, it's not like an X-rated club
or that it's, it's an actual fuel station, which we all,
we are the motor city and we have the cars.
I, I just kind of think if the reason is just
because we don't want it,
I don't think that's a good enough reason.
And I think if the traffic study shows
that it's really not a problem,
I don't think we should be denying them.
Thank you
Commissioner Smith?
Yes. To send it to the recommendation to City Council.
So the recommendation will be sent to City Council, uh,
citizen participation.
Anyone like to come up and speak?
You'll have three minutes to state your name and address.
You'll have three minutes to speak.
This was pretty much a mess tonight, wasn't it?
Um, I'm not sure.
I did go out and ask them if a traffic study, uh, also
includes, uh, information from the police
and fire department about any accidents at a certain
intersection and suggested that might be good information
to have and come back with to show
that they're concerned about the safety.
I mean, I don't want a gas station there,
but, uh, it's probably going to happen.
Um, but it, it sounds like safety is an issue.
Um, I am,
I, I've lived here 40 years.
I've lived, it's actually 41 years.
And the way
that things are happening is we're really
divided by Mound Road.
So really the people that live to the east of Mound Road,
I think for me, I go into Madison Heights
or Troy to do what I need to do.
I don't cross Mound Road
and everything that we're doing is making Mound Road
just a freeway.
And if Van D**e ends up being slowed down and dividers
and things, the traffic's all gonna be on mound.
And, uh, it's a very uncomfortable, it,
it takes away the neighborhood feeling.
Um, so I, I don't know what else to say,
but I think I remem I, I heard, um, the attorney
say that before,
before the vote, that's when you only if it's a, a to hold
or postpone for or against postponing it.
And that ha didn't happen before you voted.
It happened after you voted.
And it's almost like, I'm not sure
that's the way Robert's rules works.
So I I, I know you guys probably didn't like
how things went tonight either,
but it was a little bit embarrassing.
And, um, I don't know.
There are probably no good solutions
to these kind of problems.
Um, but when I went out to talk to them,
there's a lot of angry people.
Um, so I kind of like, I,
if someone could have just said, this is what we want.
We want another traffic study,
or we want information, we wanna know
what GM's problem is, they might have a concern.
What is it really? What is it really?
And does GM really matter?
But they pay a lot of taxes here, right?
I mean, we have to pay attention.
We have to pay attention to the neighbors, to the business.
So it, and I don't know, I have never been on that part of
Chicago 13 Mile where I haven't been backed up at a light,
probably almost to Mr.
Walton's business. Thanks.
Thank you. Anyone else like to speak on this?
I,
Yes. Hi, David
Metzler again.
Um, I just wanna state that I agree with Ms. Harris
regarding Robert's rules of order.
I think that there needs to be more of a format, uh, there
and a following of, uh, procedure, you know,
that everyone can follow.
Um, because it was just very difficult, you know,
seeing the chatter afterwards.
And I understand that everyone needed to get, uh, onboard
with what the date was.
But at the same time, um, again, I I wanna reiterate
what I said earlier in that the,
this board still has the chance to use its agency.
You know, using your agency is very important
as a planning commission.
You know, you guys set the tone for everything
that happens in the city,
and I think that you need to be very cognizant of that,
you know, one way or the other.
Uh, and you don't have
to approve everything that comes to you.
You know, it's about planning and working with Mr.
Wir and, um, you know, coming up
with your own ideas too about what the vision could be.
You know, like it's kind of cheesy.
I know a lot of people have vision boards
and whatever else for the new year,
but at least have some better ideas with
how we want the City of Warren to look.
And I know that you guys aren't the be all end all.
I understand that, you know, votes have to be given
by city council to dictate procedure
and, you know, the final resolution.
But at the same time, there's gotta be a better guidance
and more communication with the residents.
So however that looks, I don't know if that means, uh,
you know, community open house or something like that.
Uh, I know that you guys tried to work with the zoning board
of appeals and, uh, have a date to meet with them.
I don't know if that was ever done. I hope it was.
Um, but we really need to work together as a city
to create a good vision for the residents that are here,
rather than kowtowing every business that comes to us as,
uh, commissions and comes to the city
for approval. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Anyone else like
to speak on seeing none?
Uh, item number 12, 12 Way plan directors report.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Well, this, uh, report really come, starts at, uh,
on the 15th of December.
A lot of that time was on vacation, along with most
of the staff, but, uh, so now we've come to, um,
the last meeting that, uh, I attended, it was at, uh, Rouse,
uh, elementary school.
And, uh, that school is located north of 10 Mile
and, uh, quite a bit east of, uh, Ryan.
Anyway, it's an older elementary school center.
It's in center line, uh, schools district.
And they've closed it. And
they had a, a meeting with, uh, some developers who want to,
uh, turn it into a senior citizen, uh, living,
uh, housing area.
Very interesting. And, uh, we, we think that it's a,
a wonderful idea as opposed to, uh, other types of uses that
have a tendency that, uh, to move into facilities like that.
Uh, center line wanted to, uh, go with, uh,
uh, some people who do this type of work as opposed to
another type of, uh, educational, uh, group
or who knows what.
So I attended that on the 17th of December.
Uh, now we move forward here.
These are just things that are of somewhat,
uh, informational.
Um, on the sixth, uh, excuse me, had a,
a meeting, uh, with, um, some people who came through
for a rezoning at, on Raso, south side
of Raso, east of, uh, Shaner.
Alright. And that's next to a trucking, uh, outfit.
They came through, requested a rezoning,
and it was, uh, recommended denial
and ultimately denied by the, uh, city council.
They're back and now they want to do a conditional rezone.
There was some discussion about the
conditions, that type of thing.
And, uh, they're serious about this.
And they're gonna be coming forward sometime this year.
Uh, next, uh, there is, uh,
there's a plumbing outfit called Bison Plumbing.
They happen to own a property that's on the, uh, east side
of, uh, Ryan Road, just north of, uh,
11 mile, or the service drive,
if you will, on the east side.
So that's, uh, I think it used to be a greenhouse.
Greenhouse is back there.
It's a large property, but they own it.
And they're looking to, uh, perhaps do a use variance so
that they can operate it, uh, as a, as a
C3 zone, wholesale and intensive business type of thing.
We'll see what happens, uh, with that, uh,
with a use variance.
Or they may end up with, uh, an attempt for rezoning.
Not sure, but, uh, just wanted to let you know,
we did meet with them.
I attended a meeting with, um,
Macomb County Engineering
and, uh, uh, others, uh, actually in Oakland County.
They were involved with this.
Uh, they want to, uh, revitalize Quida Road Road,
and that would be from, uh, 14 mile to 11 resurfacing.
Um, fixing the curbing. Anything you can think of to fix.
One of the major things, uh, that, that we kind of think is,
uh, Abu abuse
and matches up with our active mobility plan that we've gone
through, uh, is, uh,
the sidewalk along the east side of, uh, the street.
Alright, from 14 mile to 11, they wanna widen it, uh,
from four or five feet to 10 feet, 10 feet in width,
and, uh, multi-use for walkers, runners,
um, bicyclists
and other types of active mobility up
and down that whole entire stretch.
So we were quite excited about that.
Um, and finally had, uh, in this time period,
a couple, uh, discussions, uh, meetings
with a gentleman named, uh, John Wright.
And, um, Michelle has, uh, met with him several times.
Maybe the words many at this point in time.
And, and we're talking about an overlay district
residential, uh, in, um, there would be
south of 10 Mile area Van D**e in, in that area
where, uh, the residential needs a change.
And the change would be multi dwellings, uh,
up to four units.
So two or three
or four, depending upon the property.
Uh, the district, uh, would be a complete revision, uh,
softening the requirements that are currently there.
So you'd end up with an overlay district if it's
that pertaining to that type of use.
But the underlying district would remain
for other uses, needless to say.
So, um, you'll hear, uh,
quite a bit I think about this.
Uh, and it, and it's coming up.
There might even be a little bit of discussion, uh, at the,
at the meeting that you're gonna have with, uh,
the zoning board of appeals.
Uh, so with that, those were a few things that, uh,
came across the desk in the last two weeks.
Any questions? Thank you, Mr. Werth.
Anybody have any questions for Mr. Werth?
Uh, chair?
Yeah, he did mention, um, the meeting
with the ZBA quick just now.
Okay. Has an official date. Time in place has been set.
I, I wasn't, I got it.
Possibly a date, but not a time in place.
I think we've mentioned to the Planning Commission.
It's on the 22nd. Right? And it's at the community center
Here in this room?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And what time not no.
And we'll, we'll give you that information.
It's a little up in the air in, in what room?
But, uh, that's lies with the, uh,
city council on their decision.
So we'll get you that information very soon.
I yield the floor. Any other questions for Mr. We,
Uh, excuse me, director?
Um, you said 10 10
and Van D**e isn't tenant Van D**e, uh, center line?
I was using that as a location. Okay.
Okay. Alright.
Uh, maybe a better location is, uh, Stevens
and Van D**e South.
Okay. From there to, uh, eight Mile
and either direction from Van D**e,
maybe a half mile or more.
Okay. I I'm being real general here, so,
Well, I'm, I'm thinking tenant Van D**e is center mine.
No, I didn't. I just used it as a location.
Fair enough. I apologize. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
All right.
Any other questions for Mr. Worth?
I'm number 12 B
regarding the appointment of a new commission.
Assistant secretary.
You have anybody that's a volunteer for that?
Who? Me or Who? You put
Izzy wrong finger.
We, we need To fill that?
No, we can recommend or nominate. Okay.
You can nominate, yes. Yeah.
I wanna nominate, um, for the assistant
secretary, please take
it. We need you here
As Assistant Secretary At this moment.
Yes. If she's not here, then you'll take the responsibility.
Okay. Any other nominations?
So are we okay with, uh,
commissioner Jue as assistant secretary?
Take a vote. Take
A vote. Mr. Chara
supported. Do we need a motion
Or just go down the road?
Well, I don't know if we need a
motion. Do we need a motion?
No, you'll appoint. Okay. Okay. I appointed him.
There we go. All in favor?
Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Alright.
Uh, planning commission discussions concerns. Item 12 C?
Uh, nope. I, no.
Any questions? Anything?
I brought it up to, um,
the director this morning about, we need,
they're gonna work on getting a certificate
for Commissioner Childry.
'cause we always do that when a person leaves the commission
and they're, they're working on that.
So. Okay. Uh, item number 13, count pending matters.
Pending matters. Seeing none. Item number 14, adjournment.
Motion to adjourn. Mr. Chairman,
That's a motion by the Commissioner Doe supported by
for Commissioner Beki.
Commissioner Beki. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
Have a good evening everyone.