How you doing sir?
Thank you for joining.
I like to call to order a regular meeting
of the zoning board of appeals for Wednesday, January 14th
at 7:00 PM Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance,
The Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of
The United States of America, and
To the republic for which it stands.
One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty
and justice for all.
Roll call.
Mr. Perry. Present.
Mr. Watts? Present.
Mr. Cliff? Present.
Mr. Green? Present. Mr. Lindsay? Present. Mr.
Assessor present. Mr. Jersey's present. Mr.
SFA is absent. Chairman Kovich.
Present. Mr.
Chair, I'd like to make a motion to uh, um, excuse Mr. Sfa.
So support. Okay. We have a motion to by Mr.
Jersey to excuse Mr. Sofa's absence and support by Mr.
Assessor. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed?
Okay. His absence is excused.
Takes us to adoption of the agenda.
Mr. Chair, I have a couple of changes to the, um, agenda.
Um, I'd like to make, uh, this, these two changes.
I'd like to move item six, um, to item 15
and remove item 15 current that is currently on the agenda
and move that item to the February 10th meeting.
So item six will be the new item 15
and item 15 on the agenda is gonna be moved
to February 10th.
That's my motion
Support. Okay.
We have a motion by Mr. Jersey. Support by Mr.
Question. Oh yes.
February 11th. I'm sorry. Thank you.
Support. Support.
Okay. So you have a motion with Mr. Jersey. Support by Mr.
Cliff to move, uh, item six, to become item 15 today
and item 15 will be moved
to the February 11th meeting. All in favor? Question.
I have question. Yes. Yes sir.
Why are we moving six to the end?
Because he's, um, stuck within Clement weather
and uh, he's on the way,
but he is stuck in Clement weather, so.
Okay. Thank you. Yep. Yep. Appreciate it.
All in favor? Yes. Aye. Aye. Aye. Is anybody opposed?
Okay, so, um, if anybody in the audience is here
for item 15, the previous item 15,
that is in February 11th
and this is the only notification for it
'cause it's not gonna be reposted.
So I just wanted to let anybody know that. Okay?
Okay. Remember we have a couple use
Now I do know that there are a couple use variances
on today's meeting.
And we are actually there's one,
just 12 actually it's just 12.
Should I give him that opportunity now?
Uh, since we are down one member
and number 12, item number 12 is a use variance.
I did wanna give that petitioner a chance if they wanted
to reschedule to have a full board.
Uh, you have that opportunity
or if you wanna just proceed when your
item comes up tonight.
Um, that's good too. Is the petitioner here?
Is the petitioner here. Are you fine
proceeding with us being done?
One member on your item? Yes. Okay. Thank you.
Okay, so that takes us to approval of the minutes
of the regular meeting of November 12th.
So moved. Support that was motion by Mr. Green.
Support by Mr. Watts
to approve the minutes from November 12th. All in favor?
Aye. Aye. Is anybody opposed?
Okay, those minutes are approved
and then the minutes from December 10th.
So moved. Okay. We have a MO support.
We have a motion by Mr. Green. Support by Mr. Watts.
All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed?
Those minutes are also approved.
Actually need to abstain from November 12th
meeting. Um, 'cause I think I missed
That meeting, so I'll abstain from
November 12th then. That's
Okay. But those still pass?
Yep. Okay.
So that takes us to item number seven.
Item seven, applicant Dennis Bostic,
representative Lisa Baker,
Che Descrip 3 2 9 0 0 dender suite.
A variance requested permission to one,
install a 61.5 square foot monument sign
that is nine foot 11 inches high.
Contains an electric message center that is
four feet by eight feet.
43% of total permitted freestanding sign area
to within two feet of the sidewalk along to Quida Road
to install a second 61.5 square foot monumental monument
sign that is nine feet 11 inches high.
Contains an electric electronic message center
that is four feet by eight feet.
43% of the total permitted freestanding sign area
to within two feet of the property line along 14 mile.
Okay. So the petitioner, you could begin with your name
and address for the record.
And then take us through, I guess, your proposal
or what the changes were from last time.
Oh, I got it. Yeah, it should be working now. You're
Good. There we go.
Sorry guys. Good evening. Lisa Baker.
Um, address is 5 4 3 9 North Brobeck
in Clinton Township.
And I'm here representing, um, Dennis Bostic.
And, um, we have the two different signs
that are under variance.
Um, I, there you do have a packet
where we have proposed the numbers that you've been given.
We've also went back with the owners
and looked at some other options.
Um, Steve, can I confer with you
on this for just one second?
I didn't hear back from Steve today on the one,
there's some information for the, um, 14 mile location
that I believe you're not positive whether a, um, whether
a permit had been pulled on the one
sign previously. Is that correct?
There has been no permit pulled on the sign that was there
for, for before for JR Spring.
Um, the monument was there
and she was talking about making it a pole sign.
If they move forward with a pole sign, it will have
to be reposted again and go from there.
So if that's the decision, so that,
Yeah, so I don't know with you guys,
I don't know if we're able to separate those.
If we could move forward with the monument,
that's gonna remain a monument
and then they could do some information seeking
for the other one because
what they're wanting to use is, excuse
Just for a second, Um, holes
that are existing there. Can I get
Clarification from Steve real quick on this or no?
We, we would have to wait till it's the, it's the
petitioner's time right now.
Alright, I get it. So we just have to wait Mr. Green.
Okay, go ahead ma'am. Continue ma'am.
No, that's okay. Was there a question or?
Yeah, we're asked the question when it is the board's.
We're good. Okay. Turn to,
Okay, so the, we've looked at, um,
initially we've rep we've won, asked for a four
by eight reader board on both locations,
which is higher than, um, you guys expressed that
that was a little bit too high in your opinion in some
of the conversation last time.
So we've reduced the one on qui to a four by six,
which is only six square foot over the ordinance.
And then the one on that we're looking at
for the 14 mile road is the exact size they're allowed.
The 18 square foot, they've reduced
that one to the three by six.
Um, the only thing that is up in the areas, they,
they would like to use the existing pole, um,
for the setback location.
We're unsure of whether that was a permitted sign or not.
Um, otherwise to move back
to the der I'll walk through that one completely.
Um, so the setback is now forefoot compared
to two if we were to make that adjustment.
Um, the height is seven foot, which is still less than
what the existing sign there is.
And the reader board has been reduced to that four by six,
which is 24 square foot.
Okay. Do you have anything else to add on that or are
You go and then so the, so secondary,
I'm not sure whether we're gonna be allowed to, um, do this,
but I can walk you through what they were proposing.
Um, so on the 14 mile location, um,
we've moved it into a pipeline sign thinking that's going
to add some visibility for drivers as well as, um,
the visibility for them to directionally get into
that driveway that's not marked
otherwise into that property.
We've reduced that sign to a three by six,
which is right within ordinance.
Um, the setback of the existing pole that's there
for the gymnastics is 10, 10 foot, um,
which is a little bit, which is, I think if we were,
I think we're five foot above that.
So it's only five foot difference if we were to use
that existing pole.
Um, so that we can, I don't know if that has to go out
to the community again, um, to look at that particular sign.
Um, but size-wise, um, the reader board size,
everything was within ordinance other than the questionable,
um, setback on that one.
Okay. Thank you for that explanation.
Um, so, uh, turn it over to the,
for a public portion of the meeting.
Is anybody from the audience wanting to speak
or provide input on this item, not seeing any
or close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for questions and discussion.
So Mr. Green, uh, you can ask your question now
or, okay. Mr.
Chair? Yes, Mr. Watts.
Um, I guess first to the petitioner,
the gymnastics signed, does that belong to
the Bostic property?
That's we're what we're trying to verify with Steve.
Um, I don't believe they've been able
to find that at this point.
Um, in the research I've done since last month, uh,
I focused on this property and then started looking outward.
Um, there are multiple addresses at the other one.
I have not found a sign permit.
I definitely did not find a sign permit for the
32,900.
So the JR Spring definitely did not.
I did find that there was a face change on a sign,
but I can't find what sign that was four.
So I'm still digging on all the other addresses.
Um, and, and we'll start enforcement once
that research is done.
So there was, as of as of tonight,
you find no permits on the 14 mile signs?
Nope. What about the sign that's on Dender? There
Is a permit for the sign on Dender.
Um, basically it was, the
original sign was nine feet,
six inches in height, I believe.
And it was, it was not necessarily a
monument sign, right?
But it went up and it had a short pull
and it was like a flag sign that was still lower
to the ground with a high higher, um, flower bed
or something from the renderings I found.
Okay. Now another question.
We've talked about branding when you're, when you're dealing
with your building, and I've had
numerous complaints about the building being painted,
the building being painted, the color it is
to go with their brand.
Is that gonna be considered advertising as well?
Um, I have not made it over
to that section.
I haven't been in the office except
for a couple inspections actually, uh, with the holidays
and short staffed
and everything else, um, from, if it's a solid color,
99% of the time, no,
it's usually when there's a different fleck in the color
showing something, um, and going that way.
Okay. Thank you. I'll I'll save you time.
I'll send you a picture.
I'll still go look. Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr. Jersey.
Um, I, you know, I think we discussed that last meeting too.
You know, how, how the brightness of
that building is probably more signage
for it than any other signage that
you could probably put on that building?
Um, my, I I hold firm in the opinion that, um,
I don't believe either one of these signs
are, are, are needed.
Um, I think what she has currently the,
I think have used the old JR spring monument sign
that's currently on the front lawn, put loud cannabis on
that with the current wall signage
that we approved last meeting.
I think that's more than, more than adequate enough.
I'm definitely not in favor of a, a one story
pole sign with an LED display on it.
And I, I, I told you last meeting,
and I'll say it again, I'm, I'm not in favor
of any LEDs in this town until we could get,
until we could get some kind of
wrangle on the ones that we currently have.
Um, so, um, so I,
I'm gonna be a firm denial on, on this
and I'm gonna be firm denial on any LEDs that come
before this board, um, going forward.
So unless the, the petitioner, I mean,
we can't put anything in writing saying that they have to,
you know, keep it at a certain brightness.
And a lot of the problem is you'll have
six different displays, five are fine,
and then one just pops up and is, and is blinding.
So, um, until we get more enforcement from, um,
from the city on this, I, I can't get behind it.
So I'm just gonna help them police it from up here.
So I'll yield the floor.
Thank you Mr. Jersey. Mr. Chair? Yes.
Mr. Green, uh, have a comment? Yes or question.
So maybe, maybe it's me.
Is is the agenda item stuff we see in front
of us matching?
I, I know it, she's coming back,
but it, it is not matching our backup
and it's not matching in my mind what what she said. So
If you look at the handout for item seven.
Okay. Um, so I did provide a picture.
So the front picture is
what was originally proposed last month,
and then the page in behind that for each, for both 14 mile
and aqui shows us trying to compromise
and come down on size, make it closer to what is
your current ordinances.
So the LED board, current ordinance, they're allowed a three
by six reader board.
Um, the monument sign, they're allowed 72
or 76, 71
second, 75 square foot is actually what they're allowed
for a monument sign.
And the,
So is there maximum height?
So is, is there still two monument signs you're asking
For? We're requesting that,
um, ordinance reads that there's one.
Um, but the, the issue that comes into play in this property
is there's 14 mile, the building is not visible.
There's an entrance there.
DOT is talking about, um, I guess
not allowing a left hand turn there.
So that would cause anyone coming into this business to have
to use the 14 mile, um, location, that entrance.
And it's not marked at all currently.
So you're reducing the monument sign to seven feet,
which is, if I'm getting this right
to from nine 11, it's still two foot over the ordinance
and the percent of LED lights is still 43%.
It is not, no. We've reduced it from a four
by eight reader board down to a four by six.
I'm talking about the percent of that sign that's been,
It is, I think about 30% they're allowed 25
and it moves it up to just under 30%, I believe.
So it's six square feet, feet over what ordinance allows.
So I just urge when we make the motion that,
'cause there's three different numbers here, so.
Alright. Thank you
Mr. Chair.
Yes, Mr. Lindsay, I just
wanna make a comment to the board.
Uh, you know, when I'm looking at this, I, I, I think
I'm in agreement with, uh, Mr.
Jersey that the signage
that's already allowed on this property is certainly
sufficient to, to brand the building to allow people
to know, um, the business is there.
Um, this is overkill in my opinion.
It's just too much signage.
Uh, I'm in agreement too on the, the LEDs.
I'm not comfortable with that.
So, uh, I'm gonna be a no vote on these.
Thank you Mr. Lindsay. Mr. Chair?
Yes, Mr. Watts. So going back
to my original comments wasn't quite done.
So I'll add where I, where I stand on this one.
I'm in a agreement with Mr. Jersey with the LEDs.
That's a problem. And this is a lot of signage
and I've gone by that building a lot over the years
and actually have done business with John R Spring.
And I don't know that I've ever seen anybody come in from
the 14 mile location.
So I guess I'm not quite sure the need even for that.
And I guess since there's no permit,
I guess we're not even gonna be able
to approve that part tonight.
Um, but I think about the 14 mile, about how much signage
and in the LED and then the color of building,
that's just a detriment to the neighborhood.
I mean, I have had a lot of phone calls about this
and I just, I'm gonna have a problem
with this moving forward until some kind
of resolution's done because it's just too much.
It's too much. You know, we could have, if you had a sign
that was, uh, that didn't have the bright LEDs and we had,
or we had an ordinance
that could limit it, that would be one thing.
But then the paint, the building like this, it's totally out
of what the whole neighborhood looks like, you know?
So I just, I can't get behind this at all
until some changes are made. Thank you.
Thank you Mr. Watts.
I just wanted to reiterate, I agree with
my colleagues up here
because I, I'm actually fine with the monument sign
and such, but the LED portion, our ordinance allows
no more than 25, uh, percent, I believe.
Yes. And so personally, it's like if there's going
to be an LED portion, I'd like to say
it should keep it under the 25%,
which is what they're allowed.
Um, so I would have a hard time voting
for a larger LED portion.
Um, I have no problems with monument signs
and I can give 'em the additional square feet on that.
But, um, those are my comments.
Any other questions? Discussion, uh,
Mr. Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr.
Nobody else has anything else to say.
I'd like to make a motion. I'd like to make a motion
to deny the petitioner's request, um, to install
a 61.5 square foot monument sign.
That is nine fee feet, 11 inches high,
contains an electronic message center that is four feet
by eight feet, 43% of total permit, freestanding sign area
to within two feet of the sidewalk along to Quida Road.
Um, Actually, hold on a second.
Make sure I get this right. Yes.
Um, and, and also, um, to deny,
to install a second 61.5 square foot monument sign
that is nine feet 11 inches high contains an electronic
message center that is four feet by eight feet, 43%
of total permitted freestanding sign area to within two feet
of the property, lying long 14 mile.
Due to the fact, I do believe it is a detriment to the area,
the property is not unique to require it.
Um, it is self imposing, um, and not necessary.
And it does create an unreasonable impact
and burden also on, on the, um, adjacent public
with the LED, um, component on the sign.
Um, support. Support.
Can I make a point of order? Yes. I,
Ms. Baker, correct me if I'm wrong,
but I, Mike, I, oh, I,
I believe their request tonight was for a three by six LED.
That's what, on 14 mile road
and then on dwier, a four by six LED message board
and instead of what was on the original.
Gotcha. Thank you. Wasn't it
Also seven foot on the, on, uh,
So we have three monument on, three foot
On Ms. Baker.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on, on quinter, the request
that I'm looking at was for three by six.
Hold on. First I motion to, uh, remove my, um, my, um,
sorry, my, my motion
or, so hold go ahead Ms.
Ms. Pierce,
Am I correct on Quinter?
It was, um, three by six.
We had proposed a four by six,
which is 24 square foot versus the allowed 18,
I think the client would be open to an 18 square foot,
which is allowed in the ordinance.
And that would, with that being said, the only thing
that would come into play would be the setback.
So there's currently, with the existing sign that's there,
what would, what would be installed is smaller than
what JR Springs has there?
Um, I I guess what I'm, what I'm trying to ascertain is,
is your request tonight?
Yes. Um, the, the new information
that we were provided tonight?
Yes. You said the first page was last,
last meeting's proposal.
Correct. And you have changed it to the second page?
Correct. Okay.
What I am looking at is for 3 2 914 mile road, um,
to install a, a freestanding sign with a three
by six LED message that's on the existing pole.
That's 14 mile. Oh, I'm sorry, 14 mile. That's
On 14 mile? Correct.
Okay. And then on Quinter was four by six?
That is correct. Okay. Okay.
I just wanted to make sure I,
I'm looking at the right information. Okay.
And as I said, so the client would be willing
to bring that down, I believe.
Um, if, and that's what, if this is declined,
then they would be allowed a three by six reader board
or an LED at on that position.
The only thing that would come into play on the variance
then would be the setback.
So currently it's only at two foot,
which was approved on previous, uh, previous variance.
Um, so I don't know if the client would be allowed
to remain at that two foot
or whether we would have to adhere to current ordinance on
that, or whether that could be granted, I guess
If it was already approved to, to waive the,
the setback requirements and,
and do the two feet, um, that runs with the lands.
So it, you would, it would, you wouldn't have
to seek a variance as long as the sign complied
with all the other requirements of the ordinance.
Okay. Perfect. Thank you.
So I guess real quick, the, the percentage then
with the scale down with the four by six,
that changes the percentage from 43% to what was,
what was the percentage?
Um, I believe it's 29.
I mean, I had, had worked that out, um, actually 30%.
30%. So at a four by six it would be 30%.
At the three by six, it is the 25 that's allowed.
Okay. Mr. Chair?
Yes. Mr. Watts. So to
Clarify, the two foot setback is on the 14 mile sign
That is on the quinter On the deter.
Yes.
And again, there's you without fact finding, um,
we're not positive on what variances
or what signs have been granted in the past on that 14.
Are there signs there? They have not been able to find
that at the city, so we're not positive on that one yet.
Mr. Watts. Okay. I'm, I'm good. Thank you.
Uh, July nine, July 6th, 1966.
To erect the sign within two feet
of the front property line, signed to be 10 foot
by three foot six inches
by nine foot six inches in height.
Correct. 32 900 for Dender? Yeah. Okay.
So that, that's already,
that variance exists. It runs with the land.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
So This was my original point when I
brought up this was mixed up.
So does the seven foot have to be in there too?
She switched from nine feet to 11 to seven feet.
As long as it's less. Okay.
As long as it's less, it's fine. Yeah.
Thank you.
Okay. So, Okay.
Trying to get my ducks in a row. Bear with me people.
Okay. I'd like to make another, uh,
remake the motion for denial.
Um, for the variance requested, um, permission
to install a 61.5 square foot monument sign
that is nine feet 11 inches high,
contains an electronic message board center
that is four feet by six feet, 30%
of total permitted freestanding sign area to within two feet
of the sidewalk along to Quinter Road.
Do I have that accurate, ma'am?
Yes. Okay. Two.
To deny and install,
to install a second 61.5 square foot Miami sign
that is nine feet 11 inches high contains an electronic
message center that is three, three feet by eight
by six feet to within two feet of the property
line along 14 mile.
Due to the fact it is a detriment to the area,
it is not necessary and is not economic,
and the property is not unique enough to, um, to require,
um, additional signage
Support, we have a motion by Mr.
Jersey in support by Mr.
Assessor to deny the request
for reason stated in the motion.
So basically, um, it will be a yes to deny is the vote
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
To deny Mr. Assessor
Yes. To deny
Mr. Clifft?
Yes. To deny Mr. Green?
Yes. To Deny Mr. Watts? Yes.
To deny for reason stated of motion, Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
To deny for the reason. Stated a motion Mr. Perry Yes.
To deny for the reason stated in a motion
Chairman Stevi, Uh, yes.
To deny. So unfortunately the request has been denied.
Uh, you can talk with Steve to decide what next steps.
Yeah, I'll reach out to him
tomorrow if that's okay with you.
Mm-hmm. So it sounds like we can just
keep the sign the same si size
and everything that's approved.
And then the breeder board is the three by six? Correct.
Okay. Perfect. All right. Thanks a lot guys.
Thanks. Takes us to item number eight.
Item eight, applicant image 360.
Robert Dempster, representative Robert Dempster.
Description, 2 6 2 2 5 Sherwood for request of permission
to install 40 40 inch
by 144 inch,
40 square foot wall sign on the north elevation, in addition
to a previously approved 40 square foot wall sign on the
east elevation for a total
of 80 square feet of wall signage.
Is the petitioner present?
I don't see the petitioner present for this. Um,
do we wanna proceed on this item without the petitioner?
Do we want to reschedule it?
Uh, Nicole, have we heard from this petitioner
or anything like the,
I haven't.
I'll make a motion to move this to the end of the meeting
to see if the petitioner shows up
with the inclement weather.
So I'll make a motion to move item eight and make it item 16
Support.
Okay. We have a motion on Mr.
Jersey's support, but Mr. Green to move item eight
to item 16 to allow the petitioner time to arrive.
If it's in, it's due to a weather that's causing a delay.
All in favor? Aye. Aye. I'm a no.
So, uh, the item is moved, but we had two no votes that Mr.
Cliff and Mr. Lindsey. Um, but then,
and item is now item number 16 takes us to item number nine.
Item nine, applicant Mary Jane, friends
and company representative Chris WoodWick wick.
Hopefully I got that right.
Um, common description,
1 3 6 4 7 10 mile variances requested permission.
Two one retain a 12 foot by four foot,
48 square foot wall sign.
Two retain verbiage.
And the wall sign that advertises the marijuana business
Is this petitioner present.
Okay, second. Petitioner Now present.
Um, since we
moved the other one to the end,
I've just been informed
that there were a couple calls into the council offices
that people believe this building was closed today
and that all activity was closed.
So if that helps you guys with your decision,
I'm just letting you know that.
And that might be why some people aren't here.
I told you the ones that I knew weren't gonna be here,
but, so
Thank you Steve for sharing that.
Also, the petitioner for item six is here now, too.
Okay. Thank you. Original. Okay.
Since we moved the last, well, we moved the last one.
I make a motion to move this to 17.
Support it. Support. Support.
Okay. We have a motion with Mr. Green. Support by Mr.
Wa to move item nine to item 17. All in favor? Uh, no.
So we have one or just one, two nos. So, Mr.
Cliff and Mr. Lindsay voted no, I'm moving it,
but the item has been moved.
Item 17 takes us to item 10.
Item 10, um, global sign and awning.
Representative ITO description,
1, 3 6, 2 5, 12 mile variances.
Requested permission to retain a ground sign
with an overall height of 17.4 feet,
a 9.39 foot under clearance overall sign, air sign area
of 96 inches by 96 inches, 64 square feet,
which includes three feet by eight feet, 24 square feet.
Electronic message center,
set back six feet from the sidewalk in place
of previous variance
for ground signage dated eight two 2012.
Petitioner present
Motion.
Should we canceled the whole meeting at this point?
I mean, what the heck? All right,
we'll we'll move this to item.
This is gonna be a quick meeting
'cause everything will show up.
It's going to be live unhappy people, I feel.
Um, so I make a motion to move item 10
to make it item
18 support.
Okay. We have motion by Mr. Jersey Support.
Mad Mr. Green to move to item item 10 to item 18.
All in favor? Aye. No. Aye. No. No. Okay.
So we have three nos. Three nos. We have three nos.
We gained a no. Yeah, but it's, uh, five
to three that knows.
Were Mr. Lindsey, Mr. Cliff, and Mr.
Watts's about the item has been made.
We're catching up takes to item 11, Mr. Chairman?
Yes. Um,
This is relative to Mr.
Wat Pott's statement. You know, I, I keep,
I keep a pretty firm grasp on what's going on in town,
and I have received no prompts, no texts, no alerts
of any kind about this facility
or its activities today being closed
to bear witness to my case.
The parking lot was full
of people doing exercises out here
when I walked in this afternoon.
And hence no call, no show. Mm-hmm.
No repeat ID on the floor.
I, I would agree. Okay.
Understood. We address those
items at the end of the meeting.
Okay. Item 11.
Item 11, cavalier Company is Lorenzo Cavalier.
Cabin description, 3 0 300. Hoover
Branch Has requested permission to retain prior king
to within 20 feet of front property line.
Is this petitioner present?
Yes. Uh, yes. Yes.
And if you could just start with your name
and address for the record,
and then take us through your request.
Good evening. Uh, Lorenzo Cavalier, 3 0 0 7 8 shaer,
suite 300, Warren, Michigan.
The, um, the request
before you, uh, this evening is, um, a
parking lot setback, uh,
which the ordinance requires 30 feet
and the parking, uh, for building and parking lot.
Um, back in 1999,
we did get an approval for a
building setback of 20 feet instead of 30 feet.
At that time, the plan showed the building setback 20 feet
and the parking lot setback 20 feet.
Recently a tenant had requested, uh, a variance
to install a generator, which was approved.
But at that time, I was notified.
I, I built the building back in 99
and still on it today.
Um, I was notified that
although there was a variance for the building
to be set back 20 feet, there was not a variance
for the parking to be set back 20 feet.
So The issue came up.
I met with, uh, with zoning officials at the city
and they said that I needed to submit an application.
And here I am. The building's been up for going on 27 years.
Uh, we've never had any issues, uh, no complaints.
Um, I think the building is, is maintained fairly well.
Um, we pretty much have the same tenant mix in there
that we had back in 19, well,
in 2000 when we finished the building.
So, um, without this variance, uh,
we'd have to rip out parts of the parking lot
that's been there for t almost 27 years.
Um, so that's the,
that's the story of,
of why we're here, why I am here tonight.
Okay. Thank you very much for that explanation.
Um, this is a public hearing.
Are there any members of the audience, uh,
here to speak on this item?
Not seeing any or close the public portion. And there?
I think so. So, Mr.
Chair, we have a, uh, impact statement from, uh, the plant.
We have an audience practice. Oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry.
Go ahead. I'm sorry. Please approach our reopen the
audience portion, and if you can just state your name
and address before your comments.
My name is John Wilcox. I live at 1 1 6 3 oh Robinwood.
And I'm here
'cause I got a lot, I've had a lot of problems
with this company over the years,
and I, I wanted to talk to somebody to see what,
how I could, where I go from here
to have these problems fixed.
Nothing's being done from these people.
And I don't know if I can, if I could talk to him or
What, what kind of issues are you having with this?
Uh,
There's at least several eight of 'em that had
with the dumpsters.
Uh, the, the first wall fell over and,
and, and crushed my, my fence.
And they said they were gonna fix it or gimme a new one.
And they never did.
They had two people come over for estimates.
I never talked to any of them people and they left.
I never heard from these people again.
And it's an ongoing situation with all this.
When they first did this, they're supposed to landscape
and everything else, what they did with our,
their so-called landscaping,
they had two guys in a pickup truck
throwing dirt over that wall.
And I got in an argument with the guy
and he said, he is just doing his job.
And he said he was told to go six inches from the wall
and two inches deep, and that was it.
And I told 'em, I, that's no good.
I had to clean all the, the concrete out and everything else
and that, and they had to redo the whole thing.
And then when they put the, the wall up, the second wall,
they sprayed it with some kind of chemical that killed part
of my grass and my plants and everything else else.
And, and so I had to redo everything, put all his dirt in,
grass, seed, everything.
It took time, couple years to finally get it going.
And I have to look at my notes for the rest of the stuff,
but this is why I want to get,
I gotta talk to somebody
because the lids are already left up.
People that Dr. Drop off the people for their treatments
and everything else, even the people that drive the vans
and all that, they have a tendency to to, to go by that
dumpster and urinate.
And the gates on across that dumpster are never close.
So anybody can walk in, do whatever they want.
And, uh, that's, that's more issues.
And I got all kinds of gross masks, uh,
Everything blown over the wall.
'cause they have no facilities
to throw anything in away when the people that live out
of the building, they throw it all over the ground.
Okay. I under I understand that, sir.
I, I would say that those kind
of concerns should be probably brought up
with the building department
because, um, if there are any violations out there
or if they didn't file through on what the site plan was
or so, or if there's any violations, uh,
enforcement would happen through them.
Um, because unfortunately we don't have the power
to discuss those items here.
We're here to discuss their parking. Um, okay.
And so even when we take our vote, it's
regarding the parking, uh, situation in that variance. Not
Well, my neighbor having to call today down there,
and I believe she called, talked to Steve, Jan, Janet.
And so that's why I come down here to, to talk to him also.
Okay. 'cause that's the direction I would point you in.
That's, that's the direction I would point you in, is
to talk to Steve and his department over there.
Okay. They can get any enforcement out.
And, and actually,
and if you wanna speak to the owner today, the owner's
behind you, maybe
after this item, uh, you can actually have a discussion
with them and the owner can listen
and hear what concerns you have
and, uh, try to address that.
Okay. That's
Okay.
Okay. So with that, I close the public portion
of the meeting and, um, did you read the impact statement?
Um, Yeah, Mr. Chair, we from, uh, Raworth
and the playing department, um,
after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local or general public.
The petition receive planning commission approval
for a minor amendment for a generator installation at a
medical building on August 25th, 2025.
Okay. Thank you Mr. Jersey.
So I close the public portion, turn it over to the board
for questions and discussion.
And I would just ask the petitioner, you hear
that there's some concerns from one of the, the neighbors
not relating to the parking,
but maybe it's something that you can address
and discuss with him
and try to resolve what those issues are.
That's, I
Have, I have no issue with discussing anything
with anyone.
Um, I'm not aware of what he's talking about.
I'll see, that's why it'd be good to have
that discussion offline. Right?
So, yes, I no problem with that.
Mr. Chair, Mr. Jersey, then Mr. Watts, just
Have a quick question for the petitioner.
So if this isn't granted, um,
and you have to rip out parking, hypothetically
Parking, Do you still have enough parking
for your facility with doing so?
If that, you know, based off
of the size of the building and stuff,
Uh, that, that would be a big issue as far as that,
That, that's why I'm kind of, yeah.
So, and to me,
I don't understand why the city didn't catch this first, um,
when you went through this process.
So it seems like somebody dropped the ball somewhere.
Um, in my, my opinion from being on this board in the past,
um, that's something that shouldn't be punished by, um,
by us because of somebody else's mal thesis
of misinformation or just not doing their job
or giving you the proper information.
Um, because I'm willing
to bet you'd probably adjust your site plan based off of
that, that knowledge that you didn't have.
So, um, I, I can kinda get behind this, just be off of
that, that aspect of, uh, what I just, uh, explained.
So I'll yield the floor. Mr. Wats.
Thank you Mr. Jersey. Mr. Watts.
Um, yeah, I,
I didn't actually drive over there and look at it.
I Google mapped it. I don't,
I don't see the deal with the parking.
I mean, I don't know how this got missed,
but I don't see where it's a problem either.
I have no problem with that.
Um, and kind of knowing your developments, I would assume
that we can trust that you and Steve
and these fine people will get together
and try to resolve some of those issues.
That'd be correct.
I can assure you that any issues
with any neighbors we will address. Okay.
I figured that. Okay, perfect.
I have, I'm not a, I have no problem with this. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Yes, Mr. Lindsey? I'm in favor of this.
I think it's, it's tastefully done, um,
properties well maintained, at least from the,
the image that I can see.
Um, I think it'd be unreasonable for us to deny and,
and ask this, uh, gentleman to, to tear up his property.
So if we don't have any other comments, I'll make a motion.
Okay. I'd like to make a motion
to grant the petitioner permission to retain parking
to within 20 feet of the front property line.
Uh, due to the size
and the shape of the lot, it's not a detriment
to the area support.
Okay. We have a motion by Mr. Lindsay, support by Mr.
Jersey to approve the request
for the reason stated in motion.
Mr. Lindsey? Uh, yes.
For the reason stated in the motion. Mr.
Jersey votes? Yes. For the reason
stated in motion Mr. Perry?
Yes. For reason stated in the motion
Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reason stated motion.
Mr. Clifft? Yes. For the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason stated
The motion Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in
The motion chair Stevi?
Uh, yes. For reason stated motion,
your request has been approved.
Thank you. Take this to item 12.
Item 12.
Item 12, applicant. Alina Koka.
Hope I got that close Representative Assad soba common
description 3 2 4 8 0 mound, suite three
variance is requested permission to perform the C two use
of permanent makeup and a PB zoning district.
This is a use variance.
Okay. If you could start with, uh, name
and address of anybody that's gonna be speaking tonight
and then take us into your proposal.
Good, good evening. My name is Assad Sova,
the owner of the property.
Uh, three, two, uh, 4 8 0 Mound Road,
just south of 14 Mile Road.
Suite three.
Okay. Alina is a potential tenant
that signed the lease
and we're hoping to get her a business license.
When we went to apply, uh, they said
that the building was zoned as, uh, office C one.
And the type of use that, uh, she's applying
for would require a C two.
There's some kind of miscommunication between us and the,
and the building department, uh, where they classify it
as a tattoo and she does absolutely no
tattoo and whatsoever.
Uh, permanent makeup is becoming very popular
in the last five years.
Um, for various reasons that people don't want
to do makeup every day.
That type of use is anywhere from two months to four months
and they would have to come back for a treatment
to redo it if they choose it
or they could just let it fade out.
And she also does fresh makeup for weddings, uh,
photography, uh, any type of occasion.
Um, it's a one person use.
The building is located right on mound, just south of 14.
And it's an odd building where there's no frontage, uh,
on Mound where it's, it sits to the back.
Okay. Thank you for that explanation.
Um, this is a public hearing.
Is there anyone audience wishing to speak on this item,
not seeing any or close the public portion?
We do have an impact statement
that needs to be read in for this.
Yes, Mr. Chair. We do, um, per round worth
and of the planning department
after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local or general public.
The petitioner indicated to the planning staff
that the three par parallel parking spaces
that exist along south side of the property shall be removed
to allow for a wider maneuvering lane
that will accommodate two-way traffic.
Okay. Thank you Mr. Dorsey.
Uh, with that I close the public portion
and turn it over to the board for questions and discussions.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Cliff,
In response to the comment from the petitioner
during his statement, um,
I looked up four different resources
and they term permanent makeup, also known as
cosmetic tattooing
or micro-pigmentation is a cosmetic procedure
that uses tattooing techniques
to apply permanent color to the skin.
It can last one to five years.
So that's why the definition is the way it is.
I just wanted to clarify that for the petitioner.
Thank you Mr. Cliff. Mr. Chair?
Yes. Mr. Lindsay, I have a, a question
to the petitioner.
Um, hearing that definition is very helpful,
but I'd like to ask the petitioner as well.
Um, how, how is the, maybe the, the tenant, um,
how do they actually apply the, the permanent makeup?
I'm not familiar with that.
They, they would have lieutenant
And then if the, The
Tenant can give name and address.
Yeah, yeah. My, my, my name is Tyler ak.
Uh, yeah, 3 2 4 8 0.
Uh, is it my, oh yeah, mom that's brought to three.
Uh, she speaking for my wife
'cause she doesn't speak English.
She just came in, uh, as a bride, um, with Ukrainians.
She's been doing this for six years.
I dunno why it's listed one for five years.
It's not lasting.
It's three, four months
and then she needs to come in and reapply.
If the client comes in
and reapplies all the time, it may pay,
but it's mostly for the older people.
Um, 'cause younger one has
More watches. Sure.
My question is not so much around the timeline,
the actual application. Are
You Using a needle to apply the makeup on the
Top layer and then it's face to face away.
Okay. Uh,
but it's not like the doing anything close like the two.
'cause she doesn't apply. It doesn't state.
Um, I wish she would be able to talk, but, uh, it's, that
Answers my question. Yeah,
but she, she does lips, eyebrows, and brows.
But it's, yeah. 'cause like if it be, if the two
and those part of the body, it would be like really painful
and, uh, yeah, it's, it just epidermis low top layer
and it then fade fades away.
Okay. So they need to come in and reapply all the time.
Okay. Thank you for that. Um, so I mean that,
that answers my question.
Uh, I mean, it sounds like tattooing to me.
Um, the other thing that I want to consider, um,
and let's, let's just for, for the sake of it, say, okay,
this isn't the tattoos that we're familiar with.
Um, if we grant this variance, uh,
the next tenant can come in
and we've granted a, a variance to allow tattooing.
So I, I think at least where I'm standing
is it sounds like tattooing to me.
But even if it wasn't, if we grant this variance,
the next tenant that comes in can tattoo there
and I'm not gonna be in favor of that.
Um, so this will be a no vote for me,
Mr. Chair. Um,
yes, Mr.
Jersey to kind of, you know, kind
of echo your same sentiment Mr. Lindsey, you know,
we're creating a C two zone, so it could be a tattoo parlor,
it could be a, a bevy of different things going forward.
And you got, I wouldn't be so,
um, possibly against this.
Um, but it's, it's backed up to a residential.
Um, so with this, with the C two running with the land, um,
and I noticed in the backup material, you know,
the re the reasoning for being in front of us, um, one
of 'em is that the building, you know, property was,
you know, for health, health use for the previous owner,
it wasn't, um, disclosed.
So it sounds like she was sold a property
that she could use, um, without, without knowing.
So we're not in the business of bailing out people on bad,
bad investments, um, and grant variances
because, um, didn't do your homework on the property and,
and things of that nature.
Um, but just to me, um, I do feel the hardship.
I mean, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm all for entrepreneurialship,
you know, new business owners and things of that nature.
But just to put a seat to
zoning restriction on that building going forward, um, is is
where I have a sticking point and a problem with.
So I'll yield the floor. Okay.
Thank you. Mr. Jersey.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Cliff?
I have to echo the same sediment.
Um, just by sheer definition
of the process, it falls under the category
that the building department has to use in order to,
in order, in order to ensure certain things.
And I'm not, I am absolutely not in favor of, uh,
changing a use variance on a piece of property
with this kind of proximity to, uh, homes
and neighborhood, um, for the use as outlined.
Um, it's nothing against you folks directly understand.
We we're responsible to look the future as well.
And as my colleague stated, when you decide to leave
or go to a different area
or a different business, this,
this rating stays with that property.
And the next thing you know,
we have a full blown piercing tattoo parlor in the midst
of a neighborhood and it's just not a good fit.
We wouldn't, we wouldn't ask you
to make it permanent if they vacate, they unfortunately,
it stays with the property.
It's not something that we, we don't have any,
we don't have the ability to, to read in to that,
to that particular motion
that it would disappear if they decide to vacate.
This is a use change. She's correct on that.
This is a use variance.
This is a very, a use variance is one
of the most important variances that a board can consider
and they have to consider it carefully.
Mm-hmm. And I understand your train of thought
and if we could, we probably would, but we can't.
Yeah, we can't, we can't grant that kind
of, we can't grant that.
We don't have the latitude to grant that type of a decree
to say that once your tenant leaves or moves or,
or acquits doing that type of business there, that, that,
that, that goes away.
It stays with the property in perpetuity. I yield the floor.
Okay. Steve, you had a comment you wanted to add
On that? Um, yes. I,
I, working in the zoning department,
my sentiment, my sentiments are very similar to yours.
Um, as writing up this variance, uh, I did not write it up,
but Brian did and consulted me.
And I believe I will ask the attorney.
The way it was written up was to allow this in suite three
only, and it was limited to permanent makeup.
It would not allow for a tattoo parlor
because it's very specific in that use in that suite
on that property.
So it's not rezoning the whole property that'd have to go
to planning and all that.
So it's allowing a specific use on that property.
I'm gonna defer to the attorney on that.
But again, I do not disagree with what was said there.
That's why it was written up very specific though.
So just so you know that
Mr. Chair, by way,
Actually it does the, Did you have a
Question, Ms. Pierce? Do you have file?
I'm sorry, I'm just looking at the request.
I'm just look reviewing the request real quick.
I wanted to hear from the attorney.
So I, I, I guess when I look at these use
variances, did he say Go ahead.
I'm sorry. I can give Mr. Pierce a moment to look at,
but Mr. Green, go ahead ask you.
When I look at these use variances,
the first thing I look at is can it be used
as is zoned right now?
And it can be.
So that's one of the criteria that I use on use variances.
Good point. It helps anybody,
but I'm sure you all know that.
Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr. Cliff.
Just to add on to that, I do see the address
with a Suite three Warren 4 8 0 9 2
and directly below it is the entire
parcel number for the property.
13 0 4 103 0.07. I yield the floor.
Um, Ms. Pierce, uh,
do you have, uh, input on,
I I mean I would agree with, with what Steve said.
I mean, case law supports that if the use changes, um,
I mean a variance can be revoked.
So I mean it would not, it could be a permanent makeup
application only in that suite. Um,
So it would not be with the property
for the entire parcel.
Correct. It would just be suite three. Correct.
If, if I may, I would make a suggestion if it goes forward
that way, that the maker of the motion includes it only
to limited to that suite
because the variance does go on the
parcel as a whole.
But it wasn't written specifically as that suite where,
again, I didn't write it, but I know we talked about that.
And that was the intent of it.
Mr. Chair? Yes,
Mr. Watts.
So I too looked it up and read what Mr.
Cliff put out there
and it is a form of tattooing.
Um,
and you know, there's no, I think, I think that we're going,
I think we need to be very careful, you know, the,
it it, it, it goes with the property
and to be sure, you know,
what's the chance of it getting revoked?
We know what happens there. We need to be careful.
And I know that these fine people are just going
to lease the spot, so it's not a problem for in,
in my eyes, they could lease another spot.
You know, they're not gonna be a permanent tenant to you.
Well, although you would hope they would be. We're,
We're hoping that's Been vacant for years.
Um, I just think we need to be very careful.
Um, you know, I'm probably gonna be a no vote
because it is a form of tattooing, so
I'm sorry, but I, I don't think we're gonna be able
to move and we really financially invested in this
right now at the moment.
So it's just gonna be, that's it.
It's such a simple, it's 800 square feet unit.
That's all what those units
Are. I get it. But
when you're dealing with problems in the city,
There's a tattoo part of two doors north of that.
But it's sewn properly when you're dealing
with zoning issues, you have
to be very careful with this. I, I
Re I respect that. So, but
you know, we're, we're class as a tattoo.
There's no ink in there whatsoever.
It's a makeup and it's limited to eyebrows, uh, the, the,
the lips and, and fresh makeup on.
So there's no ink in there whatsoever.
And that's one of the things
that I had a hard time understanding
the classification of it.
There's no ink whatsoever
and it's a one person kind of operation.
And I'm, I'm fine with limited it
to this tenant if this tenant vacates
that variance dies out. Have,
Have, let me ask you this.
Yes. Have they already moved in and started their business?
No, no, no. They, they signed the lease.
They went to apply,
they do two different types of procedure.
Fresh makeup and, uh, the permanent makeup.
The city authorized them to do fresh makeup,
but to do the permanent makeup,
they would need to come in front of you. And that's
What they, so they're, you're,
you're telling me they're open for business
To do fresh makeup.
Okay. And they haven't really done anything
because they don't want to advertise
and they didn't want to get assigned.
They didn't want to invest the money into it.
So they do two different types.
Fresh makeup and the permanent makeup.
Okay. And in order for them to get a sign on all that,
they want to do it all at once.
If this is denied, they move else.
Or, and if it's approved, they move forward with it.
And I think it would compliment the area. It really would.
Okay. It's a unique building. It's very hard to lease it.
And it's been vacant for years. I bought that building.
I've really cleaned it up the entire
suites, all four of 'em.
Uh, there was a fire there and it was abandoned by Mr.
Earl for a while. It all got cleaned up.
All permits were pulled. And they're unique.
We got a travel agency in the front unit.
We are trying to get them in.
We have a property management
company possibly taking a suite.
And it's, we need
to literally understand the permanent makeup
and not clarify it.
This is not, it's a female type of procedure.
You won't see any men in there.
Okay. I, I understand. I'm one vote. So thank you Mr.
Chairman, to the petitioner.
Um, in the course of these applications,
is the skin broken?
Is the skin pierced? You said first layer of skin.
Yeah. No blood. It's just the top layer of the skin.
Top layer of the skin is pierced.
That, that's it. Yeah. But there is no blood.
You have a license to do this type of work.
'cause according to what I'm reading, in the state
of Michigan, Laura requires a license
Just to apply.
Just to apply. Okay. She doesn't need to like,
do any licensing, like actually teaching or,
or get it just to apply.
So no school, it just to apply, pay the fee
for the license and that's it. Yeah.
Yeah. My, my train of point is here that
you can stand there and deny
that you're not tattooing all day long.
But the state regulations say that you are, you have
to follow those same regulations in order
to perform this business.
Because this is how the state of Michigan just treats it.
Half of the states, United States
doesn't treat this as a tattoo.
I'm not worried about the other half
The United States.
I'm talking about the united, it's a point
of view, which is it.
I I understand. I, I,
Which is in Michigan. Yeah. They, they
Treat, I feel, and I understand you guys all the way
around, however, in four years, I don't want
to see a full blown tattoo parlor in suite three in
that building, because if we vote yes on this, that
that potential has, that has the potential
to absolutely happen,
You could block that.
And I would, I would agree to it. And you could
Hold me. I'll yield the
floor.
I, I'm being the culture that I come from
and the religion, and I'm against tattoo in
Mr. Chair.
That's Mr. Lindsay.
I don't know if the, the board
has, has any other comments.
I, I'd like to open it to them if they do,
but if not, I'm prepared to make a motion.
Anything. Actually, wait one moment
before you read the, your motion.
I did miss a correspondence from a a
Okay. That you
have to read into the record.
Um, this is, um, my apologies for not reading this, um,
to the board, um, during, during audience.
But this is from a John Gillick, um,
who resides at 3, 2, 4, 5, 5 helmich.
Um, he says, I'm a homeowner for,
I'm a homeowner whose
property is right next to this location.
I'm opposed to, to a tattoo parlor
or permanent makeup business being granted on the property
for the following reasons.
Biohazard waste, medical waste such as needles, blood,
blood soak, bands, linens, ink,
existing rampant tenant littering, tenant littering
and neglect on 3, 2, 4, 8, 8 0.
Mound has already resulted in a fire
that damaged the building units roof and parking lot.
Summer of 2025, pour on upkeep of property results
and litter garbage, constantly being thrown by tenants
of said property and the wind into neighboring yards
and residential properties.
Beside and behind location,
there's already an existing tattoo business located on
3 2 7 5 0 Mound Road,
a block away from the pro proposed location.
No need for two tattoo businesses in such a close proximity.
This area is zoned for professional office space by the city
of Warren, is surrounded by private residences
and apartment living on all sides.
Spoken to my neighbors who own property
and live in the vicinity of this location.
And they agree that an additional tattoo,
permanent makeup business is not welcome in our
neighborhood, especially since the owner landlord, Alina,
does not enforce clean up, enforce cleaning
and upkeep of 3 2, 4 8 0 Mound road, allowing the property
to be littered with trash, which blows into neighbor
neighboring living areas, and also result in a dangerous
fire that not only changed her building, but trees and,
and neighboring properties.
The proposed location is surrounded by residential, living,
private homes and, and apartments.
Thank you for taking time to consider my
feelings and of the residence.
Mr. Secretary, that's really insulting to me
because I run a very tight business in the city of Warren.
Mr. Steve vouch to that, that property,
there was no tenants in there.
What kind of litter? There's apartments on both sides south
of that and north of that,
that literally sit in the parking lot and drink beer
and broken bottles everywhere.
I have a dumpster. I have a crew of three
People. Sir, sir, I
just wanna stop you.
I didn't, I didn't ask a question.
I'm just reading a sir,
I'm just reading a citizen's statement.
This is, this isn't me personally attacking you.
This is just a ci a citizen in, in the neighborhood.
I understand. 300 feet from the
business I've been by the business.
I concur. It, it seemed it's pretty impeccable.
Um, times I've driven by it.
So I just want, I'm just saying. Okay. I appreciate that.
So anyway, I had to be under the record, so,
and Mr. Lindsay, go ahead, Mr.
You had a motion you wanted to
Make? Yeah, I I think,
you know, the,
the board's pretty much expressed their,
their thoughts on this.
Um, so I would like to make a motion, um, to deny permission
to perform the C two use of
permanent makeup in a PD zoning district.
Um, due to the fact that the property can be used as zoned,
um, this seems to be self-imposed.
Uh, the property's not unique, um,
and it could be a detriment to the area
Support.
So you have a motion to deny by Mr. Lindsay,
supported by Mr.
Assessor for the reasons stated.
So it'll be a yes. Vote to deny
Mr. Lindsay Yes.
Uh, to deny for the reasons stated in the motion. Mr.
Assessor? Yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Green Yes. For the reasons stated in
The motion. Mr. Clifft,
Unfortunately yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reasons stated in
Motion, Mr. Perry? Yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Jersey reluctantly also votes to deny
for the reasons stated a motion chairman svi,
Uh, our vote yes.
To deny for the reasons stated a motion.
Unfortunately, this request was denied.
Um, always approach Steve
to see if there's anything else that can be done at this time.
Takes this to item number 13.
Item 13, applicant Rads Vic,
representative Hisham Turk Turk.
Common description, 2 7 6 4 3 Shaner Francis has requested
permission to construct two minet religious symbolic towers
in front set back that,
or four feet by four feet at the base, 30 feet in height,
and two within 26 feet
of the front property line along Shaner
Is the petitioner present for this item.
Okay, well,
Okay.
Okay. Well, this petitioner is not present. Um,
Mr. Chair, I would like to move
forward.
It's after eight o'clock. Yeah.
Okay. Yep,
That's fine. That's
fine. Okay.
A petitioner is not present to explain to your case,
but are there any audience members
wishing to speak on this item?
If so, please approach the podium
and then if all of you could just state your name
and address for the record and then your input.
My name is Rex O Shali. I'm at 1 3 6 3 2 Joyce Drive.
Um, I'm within the 300, um,
feet of this mosque.
Um, my issue is,
um, it doesn't fit the character of the neighborhood.
I mean, we are, that place is just surrounded by residents.
It's a single story, story dwelling,
and they want to put a two story in the middle of my,
we all see it from our backyards from, uh,
it just doesn't fit our character.
And, uh, the traffic at this place is horrendous.
Um, I, it's obvious they can't accommodate, uh, the amount
of people that they have there.
Uh, they're parking on our side streets.
Um, every Friday they're coming in
to six houses deep from Shaner coming into the east.
And that's up and down.
I have a sister who's three blocks over
and she experiences the same thing.
She did not show up because she's not within the 300 feet.
Um, we're concerned about the, the noise
of calling to prayer.
Um, and the, the traffic is,
is it is not only the car traffic.
We have people flooding the streets, crossing the streets,
standing in the median, waiting for traffic
to go back and forth.
Um, Is the reason why I oppose it.
I don't oppose it because it's an Islam thing.
I would oppose a Catholic, um,
something 30 feet tall in a residential neighborhood.
Thank you.
Thank you. How you doing?
Uh, Robert Saff, um, I live behind in the cul-de-sac there.
Her address, Please? Yep. 1 3 4 5 8 Dema Drive.
Um, and I do concur with a lot of what he said.
The, uh, um,
I think it would be an eyesore for the neighborhood.
And yes, there is always a lot of congestion up
and around there that I'm pretty sure
that it seems like there's gotta be some kind of ordinance
with the capacity of people there with the parking lot size
that they do not have
and, uh, kind of just impeding on the neighborhood.
Um, and it's just a quiet neighborhood
that I moved into in oh six,
and I'd like to kind of maintain it in
that manner without having any of that.
So I, I, I would like to have it not happen.
So, um, that's all I gotta say. Thank you very much,
Sir. Could you repeat what your
address was?
Yes. 1 3, 4, 5 8 dimont. Okay, thank you. Yep.
Just wanted to let you know, sir,
we got your correspondence to the
Email. So know, I didn't know how this
all worked. This is my first
time, time dealing with this, so no
Thank you. Just wanted to let
you know.
Hi, my name's Terry Smith.
I live at 1 3 6 7 1 Joyce Drive.
I'm not within the 300 feet, I'm five houses off of Shaner,
but it's still gonna be an eyesore over the neighborhood.
The traffic up and down our streets is ridiculous.
They park where they want to park,
whether they're in the edge
of somebody's driveway, they don't care.
They just park. And like they were saying,
when they coming out at coming across Shaner, there'll be 15
or 20 of 'em standing in the turn lane waiting
to get the rest of the way across.
It's just a dangerous thing
and it would not be a good thing for our neighborhood.
Okay. Thank you for those comments.
Thank you. Any other audience members
wishing to speak on this item?
So, Mr. Jersey, can I say
One more thing?
Also, when they do park, they not only park
in the pulled in spots, then
after those people are parked, then they go through
and they fill up the complete center of the parking lot.
So if there was ever a fire
or somebody gets hurt,
a fire truck could not even get onto the property.
They would have to park on Shaner to try to help anybody
besides filling up all the side streets.
Okay. And I don't know if anybody has ever been there on
prayer days to count the amount of people coming in,
but I'm pretty sure they're over the limit of what
that building would allow through the fire department.
Okay. Thank you for those additional comments.
Uh, there were a couple letters that we wanted to include.
Yes, Mr. Chair. I have a few. Um, there's three here.
And then, um, the impact statement from, um, mour
and per the planning department, um, states, um,
after review of the request, no issues were found
to impact the budding local
or general public petitioner received site plan approval
for the addition of Minette
to an existing mosque on September 8th, 2025.
Um, with that being said, um, go to the next one.
This is from a Ruth Schiller, uh, 1 3 4 4 6 Mont.
Um, she writes, expressing that I want to begin by saying
that I fully respect freedom of religion, right
of every community to practice their faith.
My concern is not about religious nature of the project,
but about the impact of constructing towers of this size
in a small, quiet, residential neighborhood.
This building was originally designed
and used as a dentist office,
which generated minimal traffic
and fit the scale of the surrounding homes.
Since the change in use traffic has already become a
significant issue during the services at times is extremely
difficult to drive down the street.
Because of the number
of cars parked along the surrounding streets, adding towers
and expanding activity at this location would only
intensify these problems.
This is a residential area,
and the proposed structures are not consistent
with the scale or character of the neighborhood.
Towers of this height and visibility would,
would alter the landscape and increase noise
and congestion, congestion in the area
that was never intended to support this level of activity.
For the reasons I'm requesting the project be rejected,
thank you for taking my concerns seriously.
Next, uh, next letter is from, um, a Cheryl Schafer
who resides at 1 3 7 0 5 Illa point.
I am a hundred percent opposed to this concept.
It will make the neighborhood look gaudy.
This, they don't need to show to show
by these ugly things that it's a mosque.
They have tons and tons of people who show up there.
I don't, I believe they cram more people in
there than is allowed.
If anyone wants to verify this, someone needs
to go on Fridays at about one 1:00 PM in the afternoon.
I live in condos directly across the street,
and there is no, there's so many people trying
to get on the, on the side streets next to them
and surrounding parking lots, it causes traffic issues.
Was the request for a mine, uh, to be put on top
of the building approved?
This is a very small building and not much property.
If the mine, it was approved for the top
of the building, so be it.
That's not put up yet. Leave it at that. No.
Um, this is a big no here. Cheryl Schaefer.
So the next one is from,
Uh, A Tanya per, per, per,
who resides at 1 3 7 3 2 Illa point.
She is writing to vote against constructive Aries.
This would, all, this would not
be good for our neighborhood.
My neighbor is also voting against the,
my neighbor is also voting against this,
and her name is Elizabeth Davis.
1 3 6 1 0 Illa Point Drive.
My neighbor and Elizabeth is handicap
and was going to ride with me,
but due to the weather, we won't be able to attend.
Also, they're trying to park in the condos,
which is private property.
Okay, That's all I have, Mr.
Chair. Thank you Mr. Jersey.
With that, I'll close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to board for questions and discussion.
Mr. Chair, I just before, I just wanted
to offer point of clarification.
So I did want the audience members to understand
that the variance they're here for is constructing the two
ettes in the front of the building.
It's not in relation to the use of
what they're doing at the building.
Perfect. And I just wanted that to be clear.
Um, as we discuss this item, Mr.
Chair, Mr. West, Mr. Chair.
Yes, it does, it does have everything to do
with what's going on over there.
I've been there twice. And if I could ask Patrick
to put some pictures up on the screen for us,
I'll show you what's going on over there.
This o this is an office building.
This is not for this many people.
This is supposed to be a doctor's office.
Now, if you look at Patrick,
if you move one more now, look at this.
This is right here. They're parked all the way to Shaner
and you couldn't get on if a firetruck came
or an ambulance came with this situation.
There was a truck in front of me and then me.
Nobody, there was no place for us to go.
And the ambulance or firetruck couldn't have got in there.
And obviously this is a police situation,
but this is the second.
This is the second time I sat over there and watched this.
I've been by there numerous times at call. The prayer time.
Uh, next one please. Now look at the street.
You couldn't get a ladder truck for the fire department.
If there's a house fire down that street. It is that tight.
Next one, please. That's, that's very bad.
I believe at the last meeting. Thank you, Patrick.
I believe at the last meeting, um,
it was stated they were allowed capacity was 270.
Uh, myself
and Andre je from the planning commission, went over there
on call to per day.
And it was tough to count, but we counted about 350 people
and actually lost count.
Um, we talked
to the residents directly across the street in the condos,
and they were extremely happy that we were there
because their complaints have fallen on deaf ears.
They're overrun across the street.
They're overrunning the condo complex.
We want to cross the street to the condo complex.
That's between the two buildings that they own.
And, um, those people were just,
they were besides themselves at this time.
When I went over there last Friday, the people are having
to pull their cars out of their garages in the condo complex
and park in their driveway so
that these people don't park in their
driveways in the condo complex.
And, uh, we didn't show the picture,
but there's, uh, of the one building where the,
the mosque is at.
The parking lot is full.
Like the gentleman said, there's cars parked down the road.
They're over their parking, their parking
limit for the property.
And it's the same way for the second building.
They own down the street.
They're parking on both side streets.
They're walking across the people's lawns.
And then when you read their, they're, um, their thing,
they're talking about how they want it to show as a mosque
so they can attract more people.
Well, you can't handle what you got.
You're already violating city ordinances.
You're violating fire code, site plan and a site plan.
How, how can we, how can we approve this? It's ridiculous.
There's no excuse for this. And then they change.
I look at this and they change the the thing by a couple
of feet, you know, and then, and do that.
Then they don't show up tonight.
And then I read this impact statement from
the planning commission.
Well, I'm gonna be honest with you,
they're a full-time paid planning commission.
They haven't been out here and seen this mess.
All the complaints are here. How hard is this to deal with?
This should have never been sent to us the first time.
Should have never been sent to us the second time.
This is a detriment to the area.
They've had four variances approved
and they've had one denial.
And I'm starting to notice a trend on some of this stuff.
It's one variance at a time until we overrun the area.
Enough is enough. I don't care.
I don't care what anybody's religion is.
If a Catholic church, church, Christ, I don't care.
But we have ordinances and we have to live by those.
And this is overtaking,
you got these people come out tonight.
They made it here. They made it here with no problem.
You know, where are they at?
So my, my, uh, my vote will be a no vote
or I'll make a motion to deny.
So, Mr. Chair,
Mr. Chair, I ask Yes, Mr.
Mr. Green. And then Mr. Lindsay,
I asked earlier. Go
ahead. Okay, thanks.
Um, so we've kind of been through this, uh, one before.
I understand they made, you know, a couple small changes.
Um, I do wanna remind the board, um,
that our instruction in order to a approve a variance,
it says that no variation from the provisions
or requirements of this article shall be authorized
by the board unless the board finds
that the applicant has demonstrated all of the following.
To establish that there's a practical difficulty in
complying with the article requirement.
So the, the articles that we are given, um,
to establish if there's a practical di difficulty is,
number one, um, that the property has
to have an unreasonable impact or burden.
Meaning that there, the strict compliance with the area, um,
would prevent, uh, an unnecessarily, uh, excuse me,
unnecessarily burdensome event.
Um, so when I look at this property, um, I don't see
that they can't use it as zoned.
They already are operating as a mosque.
Um, so I don't see any,
any unreasonable impact or burden here.
Uh, the property can't be self-imposed.
Um, this is self-imposed.
Again, they're, they're operating the mosque already.
Um, the building was purchased, um,
in the location that it is.
Um, so to add these mine rats is a self-imposed thing.
Um, the property must be unique.
Um, there's nothing unique about this property.
Um, in my opinion.
It's, it's, it's not, it's being used outside of, of
what it's really designed to do.
Um, it can't cause a detriment to the area.
We've heard from the audience, we've heard from the public.
Um, I think you guys, for those comments, I'm,
I'm always very vocal, uh, about the gratitude that I have.
When the public shares their opinion about what's going on,
uh, it's incredibly important to us to, to know
how this is actually, uh, impacting.
We saw the pictures.
Uh, this is a clear detriment, um, to the area.
Uh, it can't be personal or economic.
Um, we heard from the petitioner the last time
that they were here, the whole reason
and what they have in their packet tonight, the whole reason
that they want to build these mine rats is
to draw more community members.
I would assume that there's a financial gain
from that some way.
So it is economic and it's not necessary.
Um, these are purely architectural structures.
They don't change how they're
operating out of this building.
Um, so they don't meet that requirement either.
So again, I'll remind the board, um,
that the petitioner must demonstrate all of these items
in order to receive a variance.
Um, I hope that I have made an argument compelling enough
to show that they haven't met a single one of those.
Uh, so that to the board, I don't see any basis, um,
that we have to approve this variance.
So I would be, uh, a no vote.
I am well prepared to make a motion on this.
Uh, if there's no other comments,
I have a comment.
Yes, Mr. Green, you done? Yep.
So note that there's an in the backup.
They, there're asking for a canopy also this time
just to note that.
And I agree with Mr. Lindsay that, uh,
the petitioner, he hasn't established
that there is a practical difficulty in complying
with this specific ordinance.
So just based on that, I think that this is a noble for me.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Green.
Is there any other questions or any motions? Um,
Yeah, Mr. Chair, I'd like to
make a motion.
Yes, please. I'd like to make a motion
to deny permission to construct two mine rats.
Religious symbolic towers in the front setback
that are four feet by four feet at the base,
30 feet in height,
and to within 26 feet of the front property line
along Shaner, due to the fact, um,
that there is no unreasonable impact or burden
and strict compliance could be met.
Uh, this seems to be self-imposed.
The property is not unique.
Uh, it is a detriment to the area.
It seems to be a personal or an economic situation,
and it would be unnecessary. Support.
Support. So we have a motion to deny by Mr. Lindsay.
And then I heard a couple supports. I think Mr.
Wats, I pick one over. First I pick Mr. Watts.
'cause I think I heard, I didn't, I didn't say anything.
Oh, you didn't? Okay. Was it Mr. Perry then? Yes. Okay.
Support by Mr. Perry.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in the motion
Mr. Perry?
Yes. To deny it for the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in a motion.
Mr. Green? Yes.
To deny Mr. Cliff?
Yes. To deny for the reasons stated in the motion
Mr. Ser?
Yes. To deny for the reasons stated in the motion.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
To deny for the reasons stated in motion Chairman Stevi,
Uh, yes. To deny for the
reasons stated in the motion so
that applicant's request was
denied to item number 14.
Item 14, applicant.
My granite company, LLC Kelly Jones,
representative Tim Story.
Common description. 1 4 2 3 0 11 mile
branch requested permission
to retain a 33.04 foot front setback on an existing building
located in an M three zoning district.
Is the petitioner present for this item?
I'll Make a motion to proceed.
Yep. I don't think we need a motion.
Okay. Uh, is there anyone in the audience wishing
to speak on this item?
Saying that the petitioner is not here,
not seeing anybody from the audience
or close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to board for discussion.
And
Mr. Chair?
Yes. Mr. Cliff? Yes.
So it states that it's, it's an existing building
talking about, uh,
retaining at 33, 33 0.04 feet
in the front setback where it's supposed to be, uh, one 50.
It appears that building's been there
for quite some time under those type of conditions.
And I'm just kind of inclined
to say this is a relative no-brainer.
Somebody's just trying to clean up something
to put it where it needs to be.
I guess there's a new tenant moving in there
or a new company taking possession.
I just have a quick question
for Steve if you, if you're done Mr. Cliff?
Yeah. I I don't feel that that's a new construction.
There might be some upgrades out front,
but this doesn't look like a very hard thing to deal with.
With that. I'll use, I'll use the floor.
Uh, So Steve, um, real quick, does this,
does this property have a COC?
Uh, yes it does.
Um, what we were out there for, or it's in the process
and what the enforcement started was, was
because they had outdoor storage
and being an M three, they were going
through site plan approval.
Uh, this property was subdivided many years ago
and did not take into account all of that.
So Mr. Cliff is right that this has been there.
Um, it's not a new tenant.
They've been there, but they're going through the process,
uh, and
because of the outdoor storage is why it got directed here.
Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you Steve.
On top of it, as always appreciated
Mr. Chair before he
walks away.
Yes. Go continue. Mr. Cliff.
Uh, so clear it up just for me a little bit. Uh, Mr.
Watt, the enforcement's open on the outdoor storage
and they're working on revising
or submitting a revised site plan in order to, uh,
I don't know if you have an impact statement on this one,
but I believe they've already gone
through the site plan process. Okay. We
Do. Okay.
Um, and I believe it was approved
for the outdoor storage and b and m three.
There is no restrictions like a lot
of others that come before you.
Um, so it's, it's just the setback issue is
The only thing left. I've
got zero issue with it.
It's an industrial area budding the
freeway it looks like. So,
Um, I'll yield the floor follow
Up on Steve's comment. We do
have a impact statement from the
planning department after review of the request.
No issues are found to impact the
budding or local, general public.
The petitioner receive site plan approval with conditions
for outdoor storage of miscellaneous construction materials
on December 1st, 2025.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Lindsay,
If there's no other comments, I'll make a motion.
Uh, I'd like to make a motion to grant permission to retain
a 33.04 foot front setback on an existing building
located in an M three zoning district.
Uh, due to the fact that it's not a detriment, uh,
to the area and the sign shape of the lot support.
Okay. We have a motion by Mr. Lindsay support Mr.
Jersey to approve,
to approve the petitioner's request
for reason. State in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion Mr.
Jersey votes? Yes. For the reason stated in the
motion Mr. Ser?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion. Mr. Green? Yes.
For the reasons stated in the motion. Mr. Cliff? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Watts? Yes. For the reason stated the
Motion Mr. Perry? Yes.
For the reason stated in the motion
And Chairman starch?
Yes. For reason stated motion,
your the request has been approved.
Maybe's Watch takes us, uh, to our item 15,
which is the previous item six.
That is
Applicant Steven Savage ca, representative Steven Savage.
Common description, 2 6 8 3 7 Ryan Road
has requested permission to retain a 12 foot by 28 foot,
336 square foot painted mural wall sign on the east
elevation in addition
to the permitted 40 square foot wall sign for a total
of 376 square feet of wall signage.
I, sorry I'm being late today.
It took me about two hours to get here from Novi,
so it was rough, but it
Just showed up today. Yeah. Thanks.
So 2 6 8 3 7 Ryan Road. I'm Steve Savage's for Mr.
Miguel's. Uh, this mural was put up a couple years ago.
It's, I don't know if you have the pictures. Oh, okay.
So it sets back, it's in on the back wall of our patio.
So there's a, a dozen tables in front of it.
Um, we did get a ticket for that sign.
Um, I'm here to ask for a variance
because, well, I'm, I'm in the process of putting a
covering on that patio, which will further hide that wall.
It does not, I I don't believe it affects it.
It, it's not a standard situation.
It sits back it from the dining room of the restaurant.
If you've been in the restaurant, that wall is all you see
even inside the restaurant.
It sits back so far.
So provides for not only ambiance
for the guests on the patio, but also in the restaurant.
It's not distracting. You can barely see it from the street.
Um, I dunno if you have any other questions,
but I think that the pictures should speak for themselves.
Okay. Thank you for that explanation.
Uh, this is a public hearing.
I don't see any audience members,
but we do have a impact statement to read in.
Uh, yes, Mr. Chair.
Um, so per round worth the playing department at review
of the request, no issues were found
to impact the abutting local or general public.
However, unrelated to this variance request,
it should be noted the petition received site plan approval
with conditions for an outdoor dining area
for the existing restaurant on June 10th, 2024,
is a condition of the site plan.
Approval of the following variances were recommended
by the planning staff to be obtained from the ZBA prior
to release of the site plan to the building Division A,
to retain the existing maneuvering lanes
and parking spaces lengths that do not meet the requirements
of 4.32 i.
The plan indicates parking spaces at 17.5 feet,
18.1 feet, 18.6 feet,
and 19.3 feet in length.
The minimum length shall be 20 feet
for internal parking spaces
and 22 feet along a property line b
to retain the 19.9 foot wide maneuvering lane
and the 19.3 foot in length parking spaces located
between the south elevation of the building
and the south property line.
It appears that these variances have not
yet been applied for.
The petitioner should be made aware that approval
of these variances is required prior, prior
to the planning staff approving the revised site plan
and forwarding it to the building division.
Okay. So
Wanted to let you be aware that maybe you could talk
to Steve a little bit more about
what it, what was just read.
Um, but he should have a copy
of this impact statement as well. Yeah,
I'll, I'll talk to him about that.
I do want to state that I'm a tenant of
that property for 10 years.
Um, the building owner unfortunately passed away,
um, a couple months ago.
I am in the process of purchasing the building. Um, so,
So I think you just gave Me a copy of that.
I will, I will fix what's needed.
Um, again, I I inherited what's there. Mm-hmm. Understood.
I mean, so these types of things, I'm not sure if
understood what you're speaking to. Understood.
If It was under my power, I would take
Care of it all. I fully,
I fully believe you, sir. So,
So with that are close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for questions and discussion.
And if I, I just wanted to reiterate,
'cause I remember when that building was built,
this the Starlight Oh yeah.
Starlight restaurant. Yeah.
So there and,
and there were no changes, I mean,
to the physical building when it became Mr.
Miguel Miguel's in that aspect.
So those parking spaces, I would assume must have been
around from for a while, those days,
I mean, correct. Yeah, that
definitely. I never touched,
I've done some parking lot repairs to fix potholes,
but I do have plans for that building
and that you will see once I own it.
But to make significant investments in a building
that's not mine, nor did I know the future of that building.
Um, understood.
That was my, my hands were tied on a lot of different
Things. Understood.
Any other questions
or discussion from the board?
Mr. Chair? Um, so Mr.
Jersey, I think I've, um, stated in the past what, um,
that I'm in, you know, kind of in favor
of murals in this town.
And, you know, it's, it's kind of,
I think a nice touch if it's done tastefully.
Um, I think this is, this is, uh, one of those situations.
It is done tastefully and like the gentleman said, it's,
it's set back off the road pretty, pretty well.
I mean, if you're coming south, going north,
you probably won't even see it
unless you really turn your head complete 90 degrees.
So, um, it, it's, um, you, you also have, um,
some also graffiti, um,
art also inside the building as well.
Yes. Um, so, you know, I've, um, had a meal or two in there.
Um, so it, it's, I think it all kind of blends together.
Um, very, you know, very nicely.
Um, but you know,
it makes sense about the maneuvering lanes.
'cause every time I go in there, it's like a try.
I try to park and it's just kinda,
it always seems kind of jammed up.
Um, just, just, just, I mean, not busy, but just trying.
It's tight. Trying to get outta there if you
got big vehicles and stuff.
So, um, this is something I think I can get behind.
Um, again, I think it's tastefully done.
Um, and also he also needs the permit for the 40 foot, uh,
square foot wall sign too.
So, um, I personally don't see a, a problem with this,
um, this variance request.
I'll yield the floor
And I would actually just, I, I want to concur
with my colleague because that the mural is nicely done.
It does match the kind of feeling of how the
inside even looks and such.
So I think that it's actually the touch of the building.
Nobody else has any other Mr.
Yes, Mr. Cliff, You
stated the owner recently passed away.
What was the owner's name, sir?
Sima. So the affidavit was dated 30
October of 25.
It's just a legal question.
Is that still gonna fly
with him being deceased at this point in time?
His, his son's also named Sima beat Dutch.
It was Sima beat Dutch s and Sima beat Dutch Jr.
He did get power of attorney
and he came in with me to fill out the paperwork.
Well, okay, that probably should have been included in our
backup, but I'll yield the floor
If there's no other questions as there any motions.
Uh, Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion.
I'd like to make a motion to grant permission, um,
to the petition to retain a 12 foot
by 28 foot 336 square foot painted mural wall signage on the
east elevation in addition
to the per permitted 40 square foot wall sign for a total
of 730 or 376 square feet of wall signage.
Due to the facts, it's not a detriment to the area
Support.
So we have a motion with Mr. Jersey's support, but Mr.
Assessor to approve the request
for reasons stated in motion.
Bear with me. Support
Not Mr. Assessor supported
already.
Mr. Jersey votes Yes. For a reason.
State of motion Mr. Assessor?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Lindsay? Yes. For the reason stated in the
Motion. Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reason stated the
motion. Mr. Green? Yes.
For reason. State of the Motion. Mr. Cliff,
Just want to go on the record saying I'm a fan
of murals too, but I'm not a fan
of murals being included in our sign ordinance.
And this is 296 square feet in excess
of the 40 square feet allowed by ordinance.
So I am compelled to vote no.
Mr. Perry? Yes.
For the reinstated in a motion
And Chairman Stevi?
Yes. Your reason stated a motion your
request has been approved.
Thank you very much. Appreciate it
Takes us to the ones that were
rescheduled to the end of the meeting.
And I can see no petitioners present. The number was
This one, But I believe
So. We are going to,
So, So item 17.
Oh, there's item 16 Or item 16 is, item
is the old item A.
So item 16, applicant image 360.
Robert Dempster, representative Robert Dempster.
Description, 2 6 2 2 5 Sherwood branch requested permission
to install a 40 foot by 144 foot,
40 square foot wall sign on the north elevation in addition
to a previously approved 40 square foot wall sign on the
east elevation for a total of a square foot of wall signage.
And Mr. Mr. Chair, if nobody has anything else that wa wants
to add anything
or say anything, i, I make a motion to, uh, to deny,
but I I'll yield the floor.
Mr. Chair, I'm just curious. Yes, Mr. Cliff,
When was this, when was this initial 40 square
foot sign approved?
And forgive me, the eyes are tired
and I'm a little overextended,
but I don't believe I seen it
in the backup or if it was recent. Yeah, Steve could,
Well, the first or 40 square foot sign,
he wouldn't need our approval.
Yeah. 11 26 25
Is applied for, Okay.
Yeah. Step up there for just a hot second.
Help clear something up for me, sir. I, I appreciate you.
I'll try. Is this a new tenant in here?
DJ Conley Boiler Sales?
I am not sure on this one.
Hmm. So I guess it's pointless
to ask if there was a permit
for the initial 40 square foot sign or when it went up.
Um, I would not Know that either at this time.
Fair enough, sir, I appreciate your help.
I yield the floor.
Okay. Any other questions
or any discussion or motions?
Mr. Chair? Yes. Uh,
Mr. Cher, I know you're
prepared to make a motion tonight.
I I don't see a problem with it, so, you know,
I would be in favor of this, but that's just where I stand.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Cross?
I would agree. This building's on Sherwood,
it's a large building
and for the size of the signs,
it's not gonna make a dent in the area.
Really. If we had an updated site, orange,
it's probably fit right in without a problem.
Um, I'm disappointed that they didn't show up,
but who knows what the problem was tonight. So
I'll withdraw my motion at the time.
Okay. Thank you Mr. Jersey.
And I concur with my colleagues where, you know,
they have a existing wall sign of 40 square feet,
which is within our limits.
They want to add another 40 square foot for the size of
that building, industrial building on Sherwood 80 square
feet of wall signage.
There's so many others that are so much larger out there.
So that's my opinion.
There's nothing else. I'd make a motion.
That's Mr. Watts.
I'd make a motion to, to allow the variance requested.
Install a 40 inch by 144 inch,
40 square foot wall sign on the north elevation in addition
to the previously approved 40 square foot wall sign on the
east elevation for a total
of 80 square foot of wall signage.
I think it's, um, well within making it look good
and fits into the area
Support We have a motion by Mr. Watts, support
by Mr. Perry to approve the request for reason stated
Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reason stated motion.
Mr. Perry? Yes. For the reason stated in the motion
Mr. Assessor,
He asked for the reason stated in the
Motion Mr. Lindsay?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Green? Yes. For the reason stated in the
Motion. Mr. Cliff?
No, it's double what's Allowed by ordinance.
Mr. Jersey votes? No,
I believe it's also detriment to the area.
And I, um, I'd like to implore our,
anybody who has, um, petitions out there, um, for zoning
to attend meetings.
Um, 'cause that's one thing
that's driving my no vote for this.
So Chairman Stevi?
Yes. For reason stated and motion.
So this request was approved,
which takes this item 17, which is the former Item nine
Applicant. Mary Jane's
friends
and company representative Chris Wood WoodWick.
Common description, 1 3 6 4 7 10 mile variance requested
permission to one retain a 12 foot by four foot,
48 square foot wall sign.
Two retain verbiage on the wall sign
that advertise the marijuana business.
Okay, that's seeing anyone there
or close any public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to the board for discussion.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Cliff.
They're asking for eight square feet
over what the ordinance is.
I don't see what a problem is dropping that sign size
to hit the ordinance so they don't even have
to come and see us about that.
Um, and I'm not a fan of, uh, I'm not a fan
of signs going against the ordinance dealing
with advertising marijuana businesses.
Just have a quick question for steel, Steve.
Um, that's why I stayed here.
So because So is that a, is
that just a grow operation over
There? No, it is not.
What they are is they are a
subcontract company.
They go and they actually do, it's a,
like a Kelly service.
They actually have weed cutters, people that go cut
marijuana and stuff like that for process for, uh,
So, so they're not selling or growing
any product out of the building? No.
And to answer another question
that might not have been asked, I don't recall.
There was no sign permit for the original sign on this one.
Gotcha. Thank you very much, sir.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Lindsey.
I would just make a comment that I, I agree with Mr.
Cliff here. Um, there's no reason, uh, for the shape
of this building that they couldn't just, uh,
have a sign within the, the ordinance.
So I would probably vote no.
And I concur with you Mr. Lindsey,
because unfortunately, it's a shame that
that standard printing had a sign that was too large,
but they didn't have an a, a variance to permit that.
And, um, with the size of that building,
there's no reason why a 40 square foot sign cannot suffice.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Cliff?
Just to echo on that, I mean, there's no foot traffic.
The only people gonna be looking for this place are people
that are interviewing or working there.
Um, again, I think it's just unnecessary to put anything
larger than what's allowed by ordinance.
But again, um, a marijuana business is a marijuana business.
I don't care if you're growing it or what you're doing
or being Kelly's services, the farm workers for it,
those people are gonna know where it's at
and they're gonna know what it's about and what it's for.
And I don't think this is necessary at
all. I'll yield the floor,
Mr. Chair, if there's no other
comments, I'll make a motion.
Go ahead Mr. Lindsay. All right.
I'd like to make a motion, uh, to deny permission to one,
retain a 12 foot by four foot, 48 square foot wall sign,
and two, retain verbiage on wall sign
that advertise a marijuana business.
Uh, due to the fact, uh, that it's economic, um, the size
and shape of the lot, uh, the building can be used as it is.
Um, and it's, I don't think it's necessary
Support.
Okay, we have a motion by Mr. Lindsay. Support by Mr.
Cliff to deny the petitioner's request for reasons stated.
So it'll be a yes. Vote to deny
Mr. Lindsay, Uh, yes.
To deny for the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Cliff. Yes. To Deny for the reasons stated in the
Motion. Mr. Assessor
Yes. To deny for
the reason stated in the
Motion. Mr. Green Yes.
To deny for a reason. State of
The motion Mr. Watts?
Yes. To deny for a reason. State of
Motion, Mr. Perry?
Yes. To deny for the reason. State of the motion. Mr.
Jersey votes? Yes. To deny for the reason.
State of Motion Chairman Stevi
I also vote yes to deny for a reason.
State of a motion The request has been denied.
Takes this to item number 18,
which is the former item number 10,
Applicant global sign and awning.
Representative IED Zito description,
1 3 6 2 5 12 mile variance Requested permission
to retain a ground sign with an overall height of 17.4 feet.
A 9.39 foot under clearance overall sign area
of 96 inches by 96 inches.
64 square feet, which includes a three foot
by eight foot 24 square foot.
Electronic message centers setback.
Six foot from the sidewalk in place
of previous variance for ground signage.
Date dated 8 22 2012.
Okay. Not see anybody in the audience
or close the public portion of the meeting
and turn it over to board for questions and discussion.
Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Watts.
So to Mr.
Watt point, we had some discussion earlier,
this sign has been there for some time.
Correct?
Um, the, the sign we went back
and it was that size.
Most recently looking at Google Pictures, um,
before I was involved in as a zoning inspector,
a signed variance was granted at
16.2
for the LED message center.
I do not recall when it had changed.
It must have changed overnight
and not been noticed by any inspectors.
Yes. Um, I mean,
I'm disappointed they didn't show up,
but I al it's, it's not a place that I go into,
but they've been there for a long time
and they do a pretty good job on the property.
And I guess my theory would be, um, there was, I,
I turned in a complaint recently so everybody knows
that there was, they put giant spotlights on top
of the sign, pointed in their parking lot,
and you could see 'em all the way down to Bunard
and they were blinding you.
So I'm sure that this is why this
got caught to their attention.
And they were, they immediately took down the spotlights.
I can guarantee that's how it happened.
Yeah. And um, I'm not afraid to admit it.
I turn in a lot of stuff. Um, I understand.
But, um, I almost feel like
I would recommend postponing just to give this
place an opportunity to come in and state their case.
That's the only thing I got. I I don't have any
problem which way we go. But
Mr. Chair.
Yes. Mr. Jersey. So the, you know,
obviously LEDI got a big problem with, um,
it's been noted earlier in this meeting
and documented in other meetings.
But this, this guy, if he has the same
operation in Roseville,
'cause I think there's a Finesse Liquor store in Roseville.
I know it doesn't apply to Roseville,
but anytime you drive by that it's like,
it's daylight out all day every day.
So I think if you didn't address those lights,
it would have just expanded and it still might expand.
You know, I, I, I don't believe is
that the same owner for the last few years?
'cause I think it may have changed ownership potentially.
I mean, you might not have that information, but
I don't have that Information. So
We would have it back at the office.
Yeah. So I mean, If he's the same owner,
if it's the same business, 'cause
that's a Finesse two over there.
This is the finesse one or the original Finesse,
but it's under the same kind of title.
Same kind of brand, same kind of brand.
And it looks like a, you know,
a store that's open 24 hours a day, there's light there,
pollution galore.
You could see it from a half mile down the road.
So just with the LED light component, I don't need
to hear anything else regarding this.
Um, or, or want to hear his case, um,
regarding anything regarding this.
So, um, but today, tomorrow,
next month, I'll be a denial vote. So I'll, I'll
Floor. I just
wanted to add one point
because see the existing, the existing sign be
before had the LED was 25%,
which was within our ordinance
and you didn't need any approval for it.
Mm-hmm. The new sign, it goes up
to 37.5%, which is over what's allowed,
which is why he needs to have this variance dates for Yeah.
And personally it's like, I don't agree
with the larger LED portion.
If he kept that to 25%, he wouldn't need to come to us,
you know, so I would actually not be in favor
of granting this personally.
Me personally, I, I don't know the guy,
but I just think that it's gonna be another LED
that's outta compliance and that size being a,
a beaming light on 12 Mile.
That's just my opinion, so, mm-hmm.
Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr. Lindsay?
Uh, you know, I, I agree. I I'm not in favor of this.
The, the LED is, it's just, it's overkill.
It's, it's not needed. Um, there's, I mean, he's,
he's advertising his business as it is.
I, I don't see the need for, for an LED.
Uh, it is a detriment.
Um, as, as far as the, you know, the petitioner being here,
I completely understand, you know,
we have inclement weather.
Um, you know, I, I'd be more in favor if, if this was a,
you know, a resident of, of the city, um, who can't make it.
But I mean, we're talking about people's businesses.
So if it's not important enough to be here,
I have all the information that I need,
uh, to make a decision.
Um, you know, so the,
the petitioner in my opinion, doesn't need to be here.
Uh, I don't really think they, they'd be able
to sway my opinion on this anyway.
Um, so I'm a no vote on this. Uh, it, it's just too much.
It's not necessary. It's a detriment to the area.
Uh, and it's certainly self-imposed.
Okay. Motion then. Motion.
If there's no other, uh, yeah, no other comments.
I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion to deny permission
to retain a ground sign with an overall height of 17.4 feet,
a 9.39 feet under clearance.
Overall sign area of 96 inches by 96 inches.
64 square feet, which includes a three foot
by eight foot 24 square foot electronic message center.
Set back six feet from the sidewalk in place
of previous variance
for ground signage dated 8 22 2012.
Due to the fact that it's a detriment,
uh, it's self-imposed.
The property's not unique.
Uh, it's economic and it's not necessary support.
I have a motion by Mr. Lindsay, support by Mr.
Cliff to deny the petitioner's request
for reason stated and motion.
So it's a yes. Vote to deny
Mr. Lindsay Yes.
To deny for the reason stated in the motion. Mr. Cliff?
Yes. To deny for the reasons stated in the
Motion. Mr. Green?
Yes.
To deny Mr. Ser
Yes. Yes. To deny for
the reason stated in the motion
Mr. Perry?
Yes. To deny for the reason stated in
The motion Mr. Watts?
Yes. For the reason stated in the motion.
Mr. Jersey votes? Yes.
For the reason stated in motion Chairman Mastovich,
I also vote yes to deny
for the reason stated in motion the request has been denied.
That takes us to, um, new business.
I just wanted to remind everybody about the joint meeting
that's coming up next week for between planning and zoning.
Um, do we have an agenda for that yet?
I do. Um, I haven't reviewed it yet.
Um, I will review it tomorrow and,
and get it approved so we,
it'll be shared with the, the board.
Okay. Thank you. So
Do members of the board have any input on what's on
that particular agenda? I
Mean, it's just between the secretaries and planning, so.
Okay. That's, that's it.
So do you have any, I mean, you could either approve it
or deny it once it comes through, so Fair
Enough. If,
Go ahead, Ms. Pierce, if Anyone has any specific issues
that they would like to discuss, um, email me
and I'll do my best to, to get the agenda updated.
Is this meeting at seven or seven 30?
Six. Is it at six?
I think it at six. It said six or seven.
I don't think it was the special meeting. Special meeting
Next week.
Was the meeting start time? Six or seven?
Seven 30 for the special meeting on the 22nd.
That's what we're talking about. The,
Oh, sorry.
That one starts that day.
Six O'clock. Six o'clock. Thursday.
Six o'clock on the 22nd. On the 28th. It's seven 30. Gotcha.
Correct. On
The 22nd.
Mr. Mr. Chair?
Uh, yes. Mr. Watt.
So to expand on asking about the agenda,
it seems to be top secret.
'cause everybody I talk to,
I've gotten five different reasons
of what the meeting is for.
So why am I gonna submit something
if it's not gonna be handled?
It's not gonna be talked about. This is the problem I have.
I think we all need to know what the meeting is about so
that we know what to submit.
'cause if I'm gonna submit something
and that's not what the meeting is about,
then I'm wasting my time.
Well, sorry,
I, I, listen, I, I'm, here's what I'm hearing.
I'm here. It's about Yeah. 'cause we haven't seen the
ordinance, ordinance updates
and I'm hearing it's about, um, zoning overlay for a new,
some new projects coming into town.
That's what I'm hearing it's about.
Again, I will review it tomorrow
and I will, uh, I'll review it tomorrow.
I didn't get a chance to review it today,
and I will get it approved to Nicole
so we could get a shared ASAP tomorrow with the board.
Okay. And get sent out
so all board members could see what's on there.
Right. So that's, that's, that's my fault
for not doing my due diligence today when it came through.
So I apologize to the board for that.
So I'll take one on the chin for that.
Mr. Chair? Yes, Mr. Green. A quick thing, Steve.
So I, I think I've asked this before.
What's, what's the process to get an ordinance,
like to follow up?
Or maybe, maybe
What's What? Uh,
to get a, an ordinance going for where you are.
Like for example, I'm looking at,
and I, I'm looking at these food trucks.
I'll make it quick. And there's a lot of them.
Some are parked for storage, some are still serving food.
We have no, we have no guidelines.
And now I saw two on the way here.
One of 'em you'll drive by.
It's got Christmas lights all over it.
So I don't know if it's something,
I mean a lot of people like them.
I'm not saying I don't like them, but it's something
that we should maybe look into and see if there's
Something we can do. The,
the process for a,
I understand I, uh, zoning ordinance amendment,
and I'll let the attorney either agree with me
or disagree with me when I'm done.
Um, is that the process goes to the planning department,
gets formally written, gets reviewed by the
attorneys either prior to or after.
Um, then
after approval by the planning commission, it goes
to the city council for approval.
That is the formal process for a amendment
to the zoning ordinance. Am I correct? Who,
Who generates that?
That is correct.
Or, um, microphone, if you're me
and microphone, microphone, microphone.
Why do I have to have my microphone on?
If you're me and you do do an ordinance
and don't realize that there's no zoning,
you can get the regulatory ordinance passed.
Um, but it's very difficult to enforce
that when it doesn't say
where those businesses can be located in the city.
So, um, I mean, I think with the food trucks,
there's gonna need to be that that is what you said, right?
Yeah. It, there is gonna need to be two counterparts,
you know, where they're allowed. And
Zoning. Zoning would,
there would have
to be something within the zoning
ordinance as well as Correct.
The regulatory Correct.
So that process gets started.
Well, first of all, someone in the city seems to, needs to
express a need for, for them.
Um, and I mean, I'm,
I'm sure all the different departments in the city are gonna
have to, to get together
and make sure, you know, all the stakeholders agree on
what the ordinance says. Um,
Like when I bring it up, people think about Bo
I'm not opposed to the food trucks.
No. And trust me, it's something we've been discussing
for quite some time now.
Okay, well that's good. So it, it's not off the radar.
I'm not opposed to food trucks.
I'm opposed to not having an ordinance form
is what I'm opposed to. So,
And see, and I would, and I would actually hope
that this joint meeting that we're gonna have with planning,
we can bring up something like this
because we need an ordinance for food trunks.
Where are they allowed, what are the
limitations and stuff like that.
And, you know,
amongst other ordinances that we need out there
At this same time. So you
Ernest, right, so we got it.
I don't think this is gonna be a meeting that's gonna be,
you know, rebuilding Roman today.
Um, you know, it's gonna be, this is
Gonna be, is that Rome or Roman
Ro Rome.
So I just, I have
One more if I can, I really think
this is gonna be just a process.
Um, and I think this is gonna be a, a multitude
of, of these meetings.
That's my hope that we could get some stuff done.
Not just have one, a one off meeting.
Say we did it and then everybody goes their own merry
way and we keep doing what we're doing.
So that's not the goal of all of this. So,
So Steve at 12 mile Shaner, there is,
since August there's been a pile of, we took pictures.
I didn't send them over, but
I got 'em. There's been a
pile of cement.
I'm mean, it's a large portion
Of cement for, I I talked about
that within the building division building. Uh, which
Project is it? Pardon?
Whose project is it?
Uh, it's the property owners.
They, they, we were on enforcement.
I'll, I'll give you some back history.
We've been on enforcement for that back alley, which was in
Dyer need of repair.
The problem was because of all the sewer drainage
and everything, or not sewer, uh, storm drainage
and everything else, he had problems with
the piping underground.
I saw that. So he wanted to take care of it all at one time.
We gave him time to do that on enforcement.
We extended them twice.
He talked to engineering, went through the process,
finally got everything set in late October
and started to dig it up to fix it.
And ran into a couple other issues.
And then the, I think the asphalt companies are done at
November 15th or something like that.
And he wasn't able to move forward with everything.
He's got a patch. It's, it's still bad in the back,
but the goal is to get everything done in the spring.
It's bad in the back. There's two foot drop offs from
the doors that go out.
I twisted my ankle going to aaa, walking on that.
Uh, that's why I noticed it. So there
He can't in the, in the front.
Yeah. Going triple I I thought the front was halfway decent
because we No, they, we were on him for that.
They trenched out something to get,
he's gonna do the whole lot though in the
spring is what I've been told. What about
The debris? He can't pick
that up now.
Uh, I'm, could You
Maybe I haven't talked to him.
I, maybe I could ask this week.
Um, it was brought up again, it was brought up, uh, I think
by someone complaining through channels
and our building, uh,
chief building inspector, actually, no.
Our assistant building director, um, was on it
and made a phone call directly to the owner.
I was asked today
by another building inspector if I could call him.
And that is on my list to do tomorrow
because at 4 45 with me having five more phone calls
to make, I wasn't gonna reach out to someone
that I didn't have on my agenda. Thank
You.
And I did call you back,
Mr. Chair. I saw that.
We can't say that.
So, um,
we talked about these impact statements we're getting 'em
from, and
I don't know what's going on with my email,
but I haven't looked back,
but I was told they were sent out yesterday.
But there's no reason why these impact state statements
shouldn't be with our packet.
When we get our packet, it's unexcusable.
We need to make sure that planning gets the message.
Because I tell you, going forward, if they're not
with my packet and there's, there's an impact statement,
I'm gonna make a motion to deny
there's no excuse for this.
And tonight to read that statement
about the Shaner property, that there's no problems yet.
You look at the list of complaints from the neighbors
and that impacts the neighborhood.
And like I say, I've spent numerous Fridays over there
and there's other violations on that property
that haven't been corrected either.
And they're not doing their job
and they're sending this stuff to us.
And I don't know, maybe wanting us to be the bad guys.
I mean, I don't have a problem being a bad guy,
but they need to do their job
and they need to get their stuff to us on time so
that we have time to review it properly.
So Paul, maybe you could put that on the agenda.
If that fits into what the agenda's gonna be. We
Can bring it up. Bring it up. We
can definitely bring it up that day.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just tired. I'm tired of it.
'cause we've been getting too much stuff
that shouldn't even be coming to us if they were,
if they were doing their job. So thank you,
Mr. Mr. Chair. I just
have one other item and,
and, um, I'll let everybody go.
But, uh, you know, I I wanna remind petitioners out there
and anybody who wants to come
before this board, that this board acts
as a quasi-judicial board.
You are, you are required
to be here if you have a variance request, whether
illness, whatever it happens.
But you have to contact the office to make sure
that meeting's still a still a go.
You have to do your due diligence
or else you might not get the favorable response that you,
you think that is coming to you.
So, um, I think it's very disrespectful
to everybody on this board that people don't show up.
Um, people on this board also have jobs.
We take time out of our own lives to be here to hear,
hear these arguments, and try
and make the best decisions possible for the city.
And we can't do that if petitioners aren't here.
It'll just be up to us to try to handle business as usual.
And we will handle it like we did today with
or without you going forward this year.
So I implore everybody to be here
and that's all I'll have. That's all. I'll
Say that, that prompts me to ask a question.
And this is to the secretary down there. Is she down there?
Yes. Yeah. Do we have a mechanism in place for people
who are supposed to be here that might not be able
to be here to contact you
in a timely fashion?
Say they're on their way here, get into a car crash,
have a flat tire, whatever.
Is there some, is there a mechanism in place for
to be able to contact somebody?
Yeah.
Is that a city? Is that a city issued device
that you communicate on?
Okay.
Um, but
Because maybe you should have a city issued device
with a telephone number for an emergency contact.
That number can be included in the packet.
In the event that somebody has to get ahold of you
on their way here and have an issue, it tell the office
And time.
I would,
It rings through to your personal device.
Oh, that's fair enough then. Mm-hmm.
So that, that mechanism is in place.
So there's no excuse to not pick up a phone and call
and let somebody know that you're not going to be here.
And on the notice for the meetings, there's
Information.
All right. Because, you know, up, up till, up till lately
I've been kind of, I've been kind
of given the benefit of the doubt on that.
But we've got businesses to conduct
and we can't keep going over and over and over.
Now how many are, you know, if we wouldn't have done
what we did tonight, how many of these we pushed back
to the next meeting and then we're here till
10 o'clock or whatever.
Anyway, that, that's a,
That's all. And the thing is, is any
petitioner, I mean,
tell you the truth, as I was driving, I mean,
I came straight from my other work straight here.
And with the weather, I knew I might be late
and I was actually all set to figure out
or text somebody if I think I'm going to be late.
But yeah, it looked like I was able to make it in time. Oh.
And so there's no reason a petitioner
should not be able to say,
No, I'm with Mr. Jersey
on that. Things need
to tighten up just a little bit
when it comes to certain things.
Um, and I,
and I do, I want to express some concerns about this joint
meeting too, because I don't like being left in the dark,
walking into something.
I don't know what I'm walking into.
And, and I was very vocal about that.
And I've been vocal about it for several weeks.
What, what's it about? Who's gonna do what, whatever.
So not to rat anybody out, and I'm not gonna do it,
but I've had some conversations over on that side
and I've got a multitude of different excuses as
to what's going on too.
So I, I just think it's unprofessional to expect people
to walk into a meeting.
And we're, we're about a week out
and we don't know what we're going for.
'cause some of us might have some homework we need to do.
Some of us might want to devise something
to talk about on certain topics.
And this thing's gonna drop four or five days in advance.
You work, I work, I work three jobs.
I did finish school finally, by the way.
But you work three jobs too. It, it's, it's, uh, yeah. Yeah.
Four. But anyway, it's, uh, it, it, I like serving
and I like taking care of business,
but I, I just don't think that sometimes, um, you know,
What we have going on is taken into consideration.
It's, it's important.
We, we, we got packets under control
and I thank you very much for that.
Nicole. Packets are, are coming earlier, but I'm with you.
Gimme the backup. Give, gimme the state,
gimme the impact statements.
They should be in the packet and,
and enforcements open on that property.
Uh, give us everything that we need to make our decisions.
And I also want to chime in on some of the lax enforcement
that goes on in this town,
because a lot of stuff that goes on,
the pictures you displayed tonight are disturbing.
But we all know what goes on.
You're gonna see a lot more pictures.
But I think that a lot of that, and I've said it
before, I think a lot of that stems from the actions
that this board took 5, 10, 15 years ago
by doing things the way they did them.
It's up to us to train if,
if the city's not gonna offer us training opportunities
to hone our skills and understand the rules and laws
and regulations of what it is we're supposed
to be doing when we're up here,
we have an obligation if we're gonna stay in these seats
to learn what we need to do, if we have
to do it from an outside source.
So, you know, I'm holding five certificates from MSU
and a couple other places dealing with regulatory zoning.
And I, I try to understand what it is
that's going on out there.
And I can't say that about a lot of our predecessors
because now we're having
to look at things this far down the road
that are impacting neighbors.
We had a lot of neighbors here tonight about a certain issue
that really wasn't within our purview.
And I don't know who's hearing these people
or who's not hearing them, but I think it's very disturbing.
And to jump on top of that,
it really disturbed me a few meetings ago when I heard
somebody made a phone call to somebody
and stopped enforcement actions.
Now I doubt the whole process.
I doubt the whole process because somebody gave me cause
to quantify what I thought was going on
all the way all along.
And who else is it going on with?
And with that, I'm off my soapbox.
Any other items for new business
or motion for adjournment?
Motion to adjourn. Support.
Support. We have a motion by Mr. Cliff. Support by Mr.
Assessor to meeting adjourn. Uh, all in favor? Aye. Aye.
Anybody opposed? Meeting adjourned at nine 16.
I.